[2011-07-26 19::58:13] jacine: hey guys ;)
[2011-07-26 19::58:19] rupl: hey hey!
[2011-07-26 19::58:44] jacine: :)
[2011-07-26 19::59:06] jacine: How's everybody doing?
[2011-07-26 19::59:20] rupl: fantastico
[2011-07-26 19::59:27] jacine: cool cool :)
[2011-07-26 19::59:32] rupl: how about you?
[2011-07-26 19::59:39] jacine: I'm good :) 
[2011-07-26 19::59:52] jacine: Sitting in the CSS Summit with mortendk right now. hehe 
[2011-07-26 20::00:44] rupl: a physical place?
[2011-07-26 20::01:03] jacine: No, it's online: http://environmentsforhumans.com/2011/css-summit/
[2011-07-26 20::01:17] jacine: Good stuff comes tomorrow ;)
[2011-07-26 20::01:47] jbeach: hi all | afk 5 min...
[2011-07-26 20::01:52] jacine: Ok, guys… So, I don't have a big agenda here today.
[2011-07-26 20::02:10] jacine: I just wanted to talk about getting through the first 2 sprint's issues: http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?issue_tags=HTML5+Sprint%3A+July+2011+-+1%2C+HTML5+Sprint%3A+July+2011+-+2
[2011-07-26 20::02:42] jacine: Or maybe just sprint while chatting, unless someone else has anything to bring up.
[2011-07-26 20::02:46] » arianek joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::03:03] jacine: We've got 2 RTBC, which is good, and I've asked for them to be committed, so that should happen soon.
[2011-07-26 20::03:08] rupl: sounds good, I was trying to get stuff done before the meeting started but I didn't make it
[2011-07-26 20::03:23] jacine: hehe ;) thanks for trying! 
[2011-07-26 20::03:42] jacine: It's been a little slow lately… Maybe cuz it's so freaking hot outside.
[2011-07-26 20::03:48] mortendk: rupl: at least you came that far
[2011-07-26 20::04:10] mortendk: i had the plan of getting through the css crap  didn't even started :&
[2011-07-26 20::04:45] timplunkett: is actually here!
[2011-07-26 20::04:46] rupl: wonders what all these people would do if they were down in TX where 100+ is only notable on the 100th day in a row
[2011-07-26 20::04:50] jacine: Yeah, I don't know if we should bother starting another sprint… 
[2011-07-26 20::04:54] jacine: hi timplunkett :)
[2011-07-26 20::05:13] jacine: rupl: That's insane.
[2011-07-26 20::05:38] jacine: I can't imagine that… I am okay in my air conditioned office though. ;)
[2011-07-26 20::05:53] jacine: Does anyone have anything they want to talk about, or want to ask me about?
[2011-07-26 20::06:26] » Erif_Neerg left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::06:26] » Erf_Neerg left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::07:46] jacine: Ok, well it would be great to get some help with this issue: http://drupal.org/node/732992.  We are trying to figure out a list of tags to allow in filter_xss_admin().
[2011-07-26 20::07:48] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/732992 => Allow filter_xss_admin() to accept HTML5 tags => Drupal core, filter.module, major, needs review, 106 comments, 17 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 20::08:15] jacine: I'm also not sure which method is best.
[2011-07-26 20::08:21] » kepford left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::08:34] rupl: hooray for summaries!
[2011-07-26 20::08:35] jacine: It would be nice to fix that one so we can backport it.
[2011-07-26 20::08:41] » kepford joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::08:47] jacine: yeah :)
[2011-07-26 20::09:12] jbeach: oh wow, that's great!
[2011-07-26 20::09:28] » dvessel joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::09:33] jacine: Issue summaries++
[2011-07-26 20::09:37] jacine: dvessel: Hey!! :)
[2011-07-26 20::09:51] dvessel: Hi jacine, everyone..
[2011-07-26 20::09:52] Druplicon: dvessel: 2 years 7 months ago <EclipseGc> tell dvessel I have theme registry rebuilding, grid display and block edit/configure hovers all working inside the 960 theme now
[2011-07-26 20::10:00] jacine: hehe ;) it's been a while, eh.
[2011-07-26 20::10:08] dvessel: damn..
[2011-07-26 20::10:21] jbeach: it's actually the year 2042
[2011-07-26 20::10:25] jbeach: you've been out for a while
[2011-07-26 20::10:29] jbeach: we're working on Drupal 17
[2011-07-26 20::10:39] jacine: We're trying to get these issues done:  http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?issue_tags=HTML5+Sprint%3A+July+2011+-+1%2C+HTML5+Sprint%3A+July+2011+-+2
[2011-07-26 20::10:56] dvessel: lol
[2011-07-26 20::11:09] jacine: But other than that the agenda is pretty open. So if there's anything you want to chat about feel free to speak up :)
[2011-07-26 20::11:10] dvessel: Well, I'm going to sit back here if it's okay and try to catch up.
[2011-07-26 20::11:19] jacine: cool :)
[2011-07-26 20::11:30] mortendk: jbeach: and we still have 3 classes for everything ;)
[2011-07-26 20::12:28] jbeach: who do we need to review the XSS patch?
[2011-07-26 20::12:35] jbeach: security team people?
[2011-07-26 20::12:38] jbeach: any of us?
[2011-07-26 20::12:52] dvessel: looking at issues queue.
[2011-07-26 20::12:52] jacine: jbeach: We don't have that many that know HTML5 ;)
[2011-07-26 20::13:05] jbeach: I can review for functionality, but I can't really speak to security
[2011-07-26 20::13:19] jacine: I think this is why people wanted to use a variable, but that doesn't really help solve anything for the rest of us.
[2011-07-26 20::13:50] » himerus joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::14:11] » acouch joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::14:35] jacine: Yeah, I mean, filter_xss_admin() is pretty lenient.  It leaves out script and style, object, and form elements, but other than that it's pretty lenient. 
[2011-07-26 20::15:55] jacine: Ok, well we can also look at this one: http://drupal.org/node/1174756
[2011-07-26 20::15:56] » kepford_ joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::15:57] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1174756 => Convert <head> markup to HTML5 => Drupal core, markup, normal, needs review, 20 comments, 5 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 20::16:04] jbeach: hmmm, it's missing <audio>  and <video>
[2011-07-26 20::16:19] jacine: jbeach: Yeah. I think that's right.
[2011-07-26 20::16:51] jacine: http://html5sec.org/
[2011-07-26 20::16:53] jbeach: My naive understanding is that they're no different than <img>
[2011-07-26 20::17:19] rupl: jacine: I ran 1174756 locally the day lin posted the past patch and it was clean.. I contributed to the patch though, does that disqualify me from RTBC-ing?
[2011-07-26 20::17:34] jacine: rupl: I don't think so
[2011-07-26 20::17:45] jbeach: yup, naive indeed!
[2011-07-26 20::17:52] jbeach: those can't be included
[2011-07-26 20::17:57] jbeach: the audio and video
[2011-07-26 20::18:05] jacine: Yeah, I mean I don't know if there's anything else though.
[2011-07-26 20::18:08] jbeach: *learns something new today*
[2011-07-26 20::18:17] » bstoppel_ joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::19:00] » kepford left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::19:01] » kepford_ is now known as kepford.
[2011-07-26 20::19:05] amateescu: jacine: in the head markup patch, i think we still need to see why theme_html_tag doesn't like to receive no #attributes
[2011-07-26 20::19:35] jacine: amateescu: even if it's just an empty array?
[2011-07-26 20::19:38] amateescu: i see linclark fixed the utf8 errors, otherwise the patch is the same as where i left off
[2011-07-26 20::19:54] jacine: hmm
[2011-07-26 20::20:04] » dvessel left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::20:14] jacine: amateescu: Okay, well in addition to that, I think we need to remove the CDATA comments.
[2011-07-26 20::20:17] amateescu: jacine: yeah, i had that problem when i made the patch, and i remember that is was a big WTF, but left it for future iterations
[2011-07-26 20::20:28] » dvessel joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::20:43] jacine: amateescu: Yeah, I'm not positive about that.  
[2011-07-26 20::20:56] jacine: But, I am pretty sure that the CDATA comments are for XHTML only.
[2011-07-26 20::21:09] amateescu: jacine: afaik, there's another issue for that
[2011-07-26 20::21:22] amateescu: those are not needed even for xhtml
[2011-07-26 20::21:26] amateescu: let me check
[2011-07-26 20::21:33] jacine: Really?  Do you have a link? I saw some CDATA issues but they were different.
[2011-07-26 20::22:37] » himerus left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::22:44] amateescu: jacine: this is it http://drupal.org/node/1021622#comment-3967626
[2011-07-26 20::22:45] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1021622 => Improper escaping of CDATA for inline css => Drupal core, base system, normal, needs review, 6 comments, 1 IRC mention
[2011-07-26 20::23:03] jacine: ah, there's also this one: http://drupal.org/node/556648
[2011-07-26 20::23:05] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/556648 => <![CDATA[ escaped => Drupal core, filter.module, normal, active, 19 comments, 3 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 20::23:18] jacine: But that's about problems escaping them.
[2011-07-26 20::23:32] jacine: It's not about actually removing the functionality.
[2011-07-26 20::24:06] jacine: right?
[2011-07-26 20::24:11] amateescu: yup :)
[2011-07-26 20::24:27] jacine: I "think" we can safely remove them.
[2011-07-26 20::24:36] jacine: which would make a lot of this crap simpler.
[2011-07-26 20::24:46] jbeach: me too
[2011-07-26 20::25:58] amateescu: hmm, that means we'd also have to touch some unrelated code in this issue..
[2011-07-26 20::26:15] jbeach: code in drupal_add_css?
[2011-07-26 20::26:21] » fubhy joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::26:29] amateescu: drupal_pre_render_styles()
[2011-07-26 20::26:36] jbeach: well, this patch fixes functionality as it currently is
[2011-07-26 20::26:42] fubhy: hellooo!
[2011-07-26 20::26:53] jbeach: we should commit it and then deal with removing the CDATA separately
[2011-07-26 20::27:04] amateescu: jbeach: yeah, that's what i think too
[2011-07-26 20::27:12] » israel_dahan joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::27:23] jbeach: be agile about it and whatnot
[2011-07-26 20::27:27] jbeach: Hello fubhy!
[2011-07-26 20::27:42] amateescu: maybe get some reviews on http://drupal.org/node/1021622, get it commited to D7 and revisited for D8
[2011-07-26 20::27:42] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1021622 => Improper escaping of CDATA for inline css => Drupal core, base system, normal, needs review, 6 comments, 2 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 20::28:22] fubhy: Hi jbeach
[2011-07-26 20::28:54] jacine: Okay, so then we should create an issue for that if we want to do it separately.
[2011-07-26 20::29:01] jacine: hi fubhy :)
[2011-07-26 20::29:42] jacine: is glad I asked in here first.
[2011-07-26 20::29:52] fubhy: hey jacine !
[2011-07-26 20::29:52] ericduran|mtg: is late
[2011-07-26 20::29:55] » ericduran|mtg is now known as ericduran.
[2011-07-26 20::29:57] ericduran: is it over?
[2011-07-26 20::29:58] amateescu: jacine: okay, i'm good with that
[2011-07-26 20::29:58] ericduran: ;)
[2011-07-26 20::30:00] jacine: ericduran!!!
[2011-07-26 20::30:05] jacine: amateescu: cool
[2011-07-26 20::30:11] ericduran: jacine: Hey
[2011-07-26 20::30:20] jacine: ericduran: We're still going ;)
[2011-07-26 20::30:22] ericduran: OMG, I've been sooo busy :'(
[2011-07-26 20::30:30] ericduran: ok, me shuts up now.
[2011-07-26 20::30:31] jacine: ericduran: I figured. 
[2011-07-26 20::30:36] jbeach: amateescu: I think code is committed to D8 first, then ported back as necessary
[2011-07-26 20::30:39] » stijnbe joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::30:44] jacine: yes, that's how it goes.
[2011-07-26 20::30:53] » barraponto joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::31:01] ericduran: that should be a d8 ticket
[2011-07-26 20::31:03] » c4rl joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::31:07] ericduran: then we can try to get it ported to d7 ;)
[2011-07-26 20::31:17] » kepford left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::31:18] amateescu: yeah, i was trying to type too fast there
[2011-07-26 20::31:40] jacine: We've got lots of issues in here marked "needs review" http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?status[]=Open&version[]=8.x&issue_tags=html5 :D
[2011-07-26 20::32:32] jbeach: Easiest patch ever that never was!!
[2011-07-26 20::32:33] jbeach: http://drupal.org/node/1077610
[2011-07-26 20::32:35] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1077610 => Convert block.tpl.php to HTML5 => Drupal core, block.module, normal, needs review, 4 comments, 2 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 20::32:40] jacine: Haha ;) yeah.
[2011-07-26 20::33:07] jbeach: I want to get consensus that we're not going to touch it, so that if anyone asks, we can say we talked about it and decided the HTML is fine.
[2011-07-26 20::33:17] jacine: jbeach: We could postpone it to see if anything comes out of the WSCCI initiative.
[2011-07-26 20::33:29] jacine: or "won't fix" it's up to you guys.
[2011-07-26 20::33:49] jacine: I'm fine either way.
[2011-07-26 20::33:57] dvessel: transcripts saved for these bi-weekly meets?
[2011-07-26 20::34:10] jacine: dvessel: yeah ;) I post them in the event comments.
[2011-07-26 20::34:15] dvessel: is so lost and trying to get a handle.
[2011-07-26 20::34:41] barraponto: jbeach: jacine: i think the blocks html5 tags were something that depended on butler
[2011-07-26 20::34:41] jacine: dvessel: Well, this is the 5th meeting.  Basically we've got a shitload of issues here: http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?status[]=Open&version[]=8.x&issue_tags=html5.
[2011-07-26 20::34:43] jbeach: I like "won't fix" and then reopen if necessary
[2011-07-26 20::35:08] jacine: dvessel: We have scheduled 2 sprints worth of issues so far: http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?issue_tags=HTML5+Sprint%3A+July+2011+-+1%2C+HTML5+Sprint%3A+July+2011+-+2 but we are a tad behind.  
[2011-07-26 20::35:12] jbeach: barraponto: I'm not familiar with butler. what is it?
[2011-07-26 20::35:14] dvessel: Yeah, I see.
[2011-07-26 20::35:37] linclark: jbeach: it turned into the Web Services and Context Initiative
[2011-07-26 20::35:37] barraponto: jbeach: it was a proposal born out of the issue panels deals with.
[2011-07-26 20::35:43] linclark: jbeach: lead by Crell
[2011-07-26 20::36:05] barraponto: jbeach: yeah, what matters more to us, html5 hackers, is the context initiative.
[2011-07-26 20::36:30] jacine: dvessel: Any anyone can really work on whatever they want…. The sprints are really just to try and get some momentum going.
[2011-07-26 20::36:37] barraponto: because if we are informed of the page context, we might know whether some blocks are sections or asides or navs.
[2011-07-26 20::36:40] jbeach: barraponto: oh, neat
[2011-07-26 20::37:08] barraponto: diraol: nice to see you here!
[2011-07-26 20::37:29] » Rigadoe joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::37:36] amateescu: jbeach: i think posponed is better for now, waiting for Crell to do his thing :)
[2011-07-26 20::37:41] diraol: hey barraponto! =) I'm always here (every time that i remember to start pidgin)
[2011-07-26 20::37:46] jbeach: personally, I'd rather see us proceed without dependencies on the other initiatives if possible
[2011-07-26 20::37:57] jbeach: we can get a lot of great work in and move a step forward
[2011-07-26 20::38:09] barraponto: i agree with jbeach
[2011-07-26 20::38:09] jacine: Yes, me too.  
[2011-07-26 20::38:12] jbeach: in small, manageable steps
[2011-07-26 20::38:40] jacine: Chances are phase 4 of WSCCI may not happen until Drupal 9, so we cannot count on anything there.
[2011-07-26 20::38:48] linclark: true true
[2011-07-26 20::38:53] dvessel: jacine, okay. I'll start hanging out in the channel more often and get my hands dirty when I can.
[2011-07-26 20::38:54] jbeach: And Closed is not deleted
[2011-07-26 20::39:04] jbeach: it's just forgotten
[2011-07-26 20::39:07] jacine: dvessel: Awesome!! :)
[2011-07-26 20::39:13] jacine: jbeach: right.
[2011-07-26 20::39:28] jacine: We need to start making progress on this huge list of issues, so it's more manageable. 
[2011-07-26 20::39:59] amateescu: well, i think there are enough steps to be taken besides this block template
[2011-07-26 20::40:03] fubhy: jacine, how? i am in, i am in!
[2011-07-26 20::40:10] jacine: Do you all think that we should schedule another sprint worth of issues?  I realize that 3 out of 4 of the issues left pretty technical. 
[2011-07-26 20::40:20] jbeach: ok, so I'm going to close it, with comments about Butler and possible future work given dependencies coming through…
[2011-07-26 20::40:26] barraponto: jacine: what is WSCCI?
[2011-07-26 20::40:26] amateescu: but i'm fine with closed, we'll always remember this one anyway
[2011-07-26 20::40:29] linclark: jacine: I would say yes
[2011-07-26 20::40:31] fubhy: sorry i was really busy until now but omega is pretty much done now so i can step in and start commiting aswell
[2011-07-26 20::40:33] » ZarALTdoo left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::40:47] jacine: ok cool ;)  fubhy no worries… just being here you'll figure out what to help with :)
[2011-07-26 20::40:57] jacine: wscci?
[2011-07-26 20::40:58] Druplicon: wscci is the Web Services and Context Core Initiative for Drupal 8, led by Larry "Crell" Garfield: http://groups.drupal.org/wscci
[2011-07-26 20::41:11] linclark: clever
[2011-07-26 20::41:12] barraponto: jacine: ok.
[2011-07-26 20::41:14] jacine: :)
[2011-07-26 20::41:15] jbeach: fubhy, we're glad to have you!
[2011-07-26 20::41:17] linclark: html5?
[2011-07-26 20::41:17] Druplicon: html5 is <reply>HTML5 is happening in Drupal! Join the HTML5 Group http://groups.drupal.org/html5. Checkout the HTML5 Tools module http://drupal.org/project/html5_tools and HTML5 Base Theme http://drupal.org/project/html5_base. Join IRC: irc://irc.freenode.net/#drupal-html5 and is also http://drupal.org/node/1193054
[2011-07-26 20::41:25] linclark: hmm.
[2011-07-26 20::41:28] linclark: needs parity
[2011-07-26 20::41:30] jacine: thanks linclark :)
[2011-07-26 20::41:39] jacine: yeah, so does the topic in here ;)
[2011-07-26 20::41:50] jacine: has no access to that.
[2011-07-26 20::41:57] fubhy: jbeach, thanks :)
[2011-07-26 20::41:58] linclark: ah
[2011-07-26 20::41:59] amateescu: linclark: double thanks for finding the problem in the <head> markup patch
[2011-07-26 20::42:13] jacine: All of the links are here: http://groups.drupal.org/html5/drupal-8
[2011-07-26 20::42:19] linclark: amateescu: np, it was fun in a WTF kind of way
[2011-07-26 20::42:42] barraponto: is this the place to ask about the css cleanup?
[2011-07-26 20::42:52] jacine: barraponto: yes!!! :) I'd love to talk about that.
[2011-07-26 20::42:55] jacine: ask away
[2011-07-26 20::42:57] barraponto: jacine: ok.
[2011-07-26 20::43:00] » zachattack1 left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::43:16] barraponto: jacine: i'm a compass enthusiast, and i believe we can do way better (with or without compass).
[2011-07-26 20::43:26] » stijnbe left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::43:36] linclark: I have to head out and grab some food, I'll check the tag when I get home for sprint issues
[2011-07-26 20::43:38] barraponto: i have been working on integrating compass and drupal for a while now.
[2011-07-26 20::43:53] barraponto: https://github.com/barraponto/compass-drupal-plugin
[2011-07-26 20::44:00] linclark: jacine: feel free to ping if you think there's any issue that I could specially help with
[2011-07-26 20::44:03] jacine: barraponto: I love compass too, but that's probably not going to happen in core. ;)
[2011-07-26 20::44:09] jacine: linclark: Thanks, you rock! :)
[2011-07-26 20::44:18] linclark: jacine: no YOU do
[2011-07-26 20::44:23] linclark: lovefest
[2011-07-26 20::44:24] barraponto: and while i worked on it i noticed we have two kinds of css rules
[2011-07-26 20::44:26] jacine: barraponto: You should open up an issue about it.
[2011-07-26 20::44:31] jacine: linclark: hehe :)
[2011-07-26 20::44:41] jacine: barraponto: yeah…? :)
[2011-07-26 20::44:46] jbeach: barraponto: hmm?
[2011-07-26 20::44:51] barraponto: we have markup-dependant layout rules
[2011-07-26 20::45:06] jacine: barraponto: Have you read up on the clean up plans? http://drupal.org/node/1089868
[2011-07-26 20::45:08] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1089868 => CSS Cleanup => 0 comments, 13 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 20::45:09] barraponto: which put the divs in the right places
[2011-07-26 20::45:34] jbeach: what are the other type
[2011-07-26 20::45:34] jbeach: ?
[2011-07-26 20::45:41] jacine: is curious too ;)
[2011-07-26 20::45:43] barraponto: and markup-independent skin rules, which apply typography and colors and magical sparks
[2011-07-26 20::46:09] jacine: yep… structure vs. fluff 
[2011-07-26 20::46:13] barraponto: i have split them for my compass plugin, so it makes it way easier to move skins from theme to theme
[2011-07-26 20::46:23] jbeach: barraponto: I think we're totally on the same page!
[2011-07-26 20::46:31] jacine: yeah, that's what we are gonna do ;)
[2011-07-26 20::46:37] » linclark left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::46:42] barraponto: which is useful when you need to take skins built on top of zen to a tao/ginkgo theme
[2011-07-26 20::46:54] jacine: module.base.css for structure, module.theme.css for fluff/chrome
[2011-07-26 20::47:08] barraponto: (yes i am working on open atrium visual consistence with any other drupal instance)
[2011-07-26 20::47:51] barraponto: jacine: i have skimmed through it
[2011-07-26 20::47:57] jacine: We all want to be able to remove the .theme.css files very easily, and just keep the bare minimum that's needed for things to work.
[2011-07-26 20::48:03] barraponto: sorry
[2011-07-26 20::48:07] barraponto: so
[2011-07-26 20::48:13] barraponto: i have skimmed through it
[2011-07-26 20::48:33] barraponto: and i believe the .theme.css files should go on the theme folders.
[2011-07-26 20::48:44] barraponto: and they shouldn't be split at all.
[2011-07-26 20::49:07] barraponto: instead of block.bartik.css and contextual.block.css
[2011-07-26 20::49:12] » zachattack joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::49:12] jacine: barraponto: That would result in duplication all over the place.
[2011-07-26 20::49:17] barraponto: we should have only bartik.css
[2011-07-26 20::49:25] barraponto: jacine: no, it wouldn't.
[2011-07-26 20::49:32] jbeach: how so?
[2011-07-26 20::49:46] jacine: It would also result in a bunch of CSS loading that isn't needed.
[2011-07-26 20::49:59] barraponto: jacine: yes, it would.
[2011-07-26 20::50:13] barraponto: but loading more css than is needed is not such a problem.
[2011-07-26 20::50:16] jacine: We are trying to fix that problem, not make it worse :)
[2011-07-26 20::50:31] jacine: Well, it's also against the whole modularity aspect of Drupal.  
[2011-07-26 20::50:31] fubhy: barraponto, oooh yes it would
[2011-07-26 20::50:43] fubhy: i am speaking for my beloved mobile device users here
[2011-07-26 20::50:52] barraponto: ok, i agree we shouldn't have more css loaded than neeeded.
[2011-07-26 20::50:52] fubhy: 100kb CSS files are not rare on the drupal frontier
[2011-07-26 20::50:58] jacine: barraponto: I wrote a big post about this: http://jacine.net/post/978688556/drupal-css
[2011-07-26 20::51:00] fubhy: and thats too much
[2011-07-26 20::51:33] barraponto: but duplication is not a problem since each theme should apply its fluff only.
[2011-07-26 20::51:48] jacine: separating the code into separate files is the best we can come up with right now to resolve the problem. And themes can remove all the "fluff" which will help dramatically. 
[2011-07-26 20::52:00] jacine: barraponto: Yeah, but it would be hell to maintain on top of everything else.
[2011-07-26 20::52:04] barraponto: if there is something they share, like typography or anything like that, it can be shared on a modular css, but i guess not.
[2011-07-26 20::52:17] jacine: There shouldn't be any typography in core.
[2011-07-26 20::52:34] barraponto: jacine: what should be in core?
[2011-07-26 20::52:44] jacine: not font sizes, colors, families, etc…. at least not in the base files.
[2011-07-26 20::52:49] fubhy: jacine, on the removing part: I think (since we will probably have a cool function that finds and aggregates all css files in all modules and registers them properly) that we will end up with a huge pile of information about the origin of a css file and the use-case it has
[2011-07-26 20::52:49] » zachattack1 joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::52:51] barraponto: (what's with this message from JohnAlbin that keeps popping up)?
[2011-07-26 20::52:58] fubhy: like ... which module it applies to and which theme it should be used for and such
[2011-07-26 20::53:04] jacine: only the bare minimum required for the module to function
[2011-07-26 20::53:24] barraponto: jacine: "display: none" stuff?
[2011-07-26 20::53:45] » zachattack left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::53:52] jacine: fubhy: hmm, not sure what you mean.
[2011-07-26 20::53:57] jacine: barraponto: look at system.base.css 
[2011-07-26 20::53:58] fubhy: so placing a equally named file in your theme should replace the module-implemented css file (like a .tpl file does) ... but it would also be cool to being able to forbid a module to implement a certain css file at all
[2011-07-26 20::53:59] jbeach: we would probably only see {module}.theme.css in contrib modules
[2011-07-26 20::54:15] jacine: barraponto: We did this already for Drupal 7.  
[2011-07-26 20::54:37] jacine: fubhy: Ah, I think toddross opened an issue asking for something like that.
[2011-07-26 20::54:46] jacine: jbeach: right
[2011-07-26 20::54:53] jbeach: oh, one of the things I noticed last night is we need to standardize class names
[2011-07-26 20::55:04] jacine: yeah, that would be nice.
[2011-07-26 20::55:05] jbeach: barraponto: this would go a long way to making CSS more reusable
[2011-07-26 20::55:09] jbeach: like "icon"
[2011-07-26 20::55:17] jacine: I also want to see classes used for forms instead of ID's
[2011-07-26 20::55:19] jbeach: there's a few places in core with icons, like the forum
[2011-07-26 20::55:31] fubhy: jacine, i implemented something similiar in Omega but on a module this could be implemented in a much better way and even lead to the drupal_add_css call dieing immediately if the file is set to "not include this"
[2011-07-26 20::55:45] » israel_dahan left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::55:50] jbeach: fubhy, I bet you could write this
[2011-07-26 20::55:57] fubhy: i think i just found a way to commit myself
[2011-07-26 20::56:05] jacine: hmm, let me find the issue where we discussed this.
[2011-07-26 20::56:06] jbeach: you've had a lot of experience on this level of the stack
[2011-07-26 20::56:13] fubhy: jbeach, i hope so!
[2011-07-26 20::56:22] jacine: fubhy: it would be awesome if you could write it up in a comment.
[2011-07-26 20::56:30] fubhy: jacine, yes i certainly will
[2011-07-26 20::56:51] jacine: fubhy: awesome. this is it: http://drupal.org/node/777814
[2011-07-26 20::56:52] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/777814 => Split CSS files into structure/behavior and theme styles to allow modules to provide styles for themes => Drupal core, markup, normal, active, 29 comments, 9 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 20::57:13] fubhy: thanks
[2011-07-26 20::57:28] jacine: fubhy: sweet. I'm looking forward to your post! ;)
[2011-07-26 20::58:06] » dcmouyard left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 20::58:12] barraponto: fubhy: i like the css overriding approach. it rocks.
[2011-07-26 20::58:15] jacine: ok, well we are running out of time, so maybe we should pick some issues… it'd be great to do 4 issues (2 templates 2, CSS).
[2011-07-26 20::59:32] fubhy: sure, lets stop throwing in new ideas and get some work done!
[2011-07-26 20::59:37] jacine: hehe :)
[2011-07-26 21::00:05] jacine: anyone wanna pick: http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?status[]=Open&version[]=8.x&issue_tags=html5?
[2011-07-26 21::00:17] fubhy: in germany we like to say "too many cooks spoil the broth!"
[2011-07-26 21::00:25] jacine: haha ;)
[2011-07-26 21::01:32] jacine: ok, I'll pick :)
[2011-07-26 21::02:22] » diraol left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::02:23] jacine: How about: http://drupal.org/node/1229434, http://drupal.org/node/1189816 & http://drupal.org/node/1216976
[2011-07-26 21::02:26] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1229434 => Convert comment-wrapper.tpl.php to HTML5 => Drupal core, comment.module, normal, active, 2 comments, 1 IRC mention
[2011-07-26 21::02:26] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1189816 => Convert comment.tpl.php to HTML5 => Drupal core, theme system, normal, needs work, 2 comments, 1 IRC mention
[2011-07-26 21::02:26] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1216976 => Clean up the CSS for Comment module => Drupal core, comment.module, normal, active, 0 comments, 1 IRC mention
[2011-07-26 21::02:46] » diraol joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::03:10] amateescu: and 4? :)
[2011-07-26 21::03:11] fubhy: jacine, can you pick a PHP issue for me? :)
[2011-07-26 21::03:29] jacine: that's 3…. if we are gonna "won't fix" block.tpl.php we can also just do http://drupal.org/node/1216950
[2011-07-26 21::03:31] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1216950 => Clean up the CSS for Block module => Drupal core, block.module, normal, active, 3 comments, 1 IRC mention
[2011-07-26 21::03:34] jacine: fubhy: hmm, let's see ;)
[2011-07-26 21::03:44] rupl: fubhy: would you be able to help me understand what I need to add to test http://drupal.org/node/1174634 ?
[2011-07-26 21::03:45] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1174634 => Add new HTML5 FAPI element: telephone => Drupal core, forms system, normal, needs review, 8 comments, 3 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 21::03:53] jacine: there you go ;)
[2011-07-26 21::03:58] rupl: drupal_web_test_case.php is a scary ass file
[2011-07-26 21::04:18] jacine: Is everyone okay with those issues?
[2011-07-26 21::04:21] fubhy: yes
[2011-07-26 21::04:23] fubhy: rupl, ok
[2011-07-26 21::04:31] amateescu: jacine: yup
[2011-07-26 21::04:39] rupl: jacine++
[2011-07-26 21::04:40] jacine: great :D
[2011-07-26 21::04:43] barraponto: yes
[2011-07-26 21::04:45] jacine: rupl++
[2011-07-26 21::04:46] jacine: ;)
[2011-07-26 21::04:49] jacine: ok, awesome. 
[2011-07-26 21::04:56] jacine: I'll tag them.
[2011-07-26 21::05:19] barraponto: what is the plan on the css split issues? we make it look good with stark, then move anything else to the proper theme?
[2011-07-26 21::05:32] jacine: barraponto: yep, exactly.
[2011-07-26 21::06:17] jacine: barraponto: we've also got to make sure we test and fix the other core themes during that process to make sure we don't cause any issues.
[2011-07-26 21::06:27] fubhy: jacine, please lets me as minimalistic on the .base files as possigble
[2011-07-26 21::06:28] barraponto: ok.
[2011-07-26 21::06:46] fubhy: *be .. not me
[2011-07-26 21::06:52] jacine: fubhy: that's the plan… and we also want to remove as many files as possible
[2011-07-26 21::07:07] fubhy: great
[2011-07-26 21::07:09] jacine: if it can be done better with markup, for example ;)
[2011-07-26 21::07:18] fubhy: if you ask me there are only really rare cases where we need .base
[2011-07-26 21::07:29] fubhy: modules need templates, fine.. but they rarely need css
[2011-07-26 21::07:30] jacine: there are more than you'd think... 
[2011-07-26 21::07:40] jacine: especially in core… lots of form styling and crap like that.
[2011-07-26 21::07:45] fubhy: right
[2011-07-26 21::07:48] jacine: stuff that's not easily removed.
[2011-07-26 21::07:55] fubhy: in core, thats right
[2011-07-26 21::07:59] fubhy: while we are at form styling
[2011-07-26 21::08:01] jacine: but yeah, we can do major cleanup
[2011-07-26 21::08:10] fubhy: are there any plans to add anything like formalize.me into core?
[2011-07-26 21::08:18] amateescu: in comment.module we'll need .base for threading
[2011-07-26 21::08:28] zachattack1: fubhy: that would be nice
[2011-07-26 21::08:47] barraponto: jacine: any chance we can get away with a forms.css ?
[2011-07-26 21::09:00] zachattack1: fubhy, rupl dropped that on me this morning
[2011-07-26 21::09:04] fubhy: zachattack1, indeed... i find the current formalize.me a bit weird in its programming (the js part) but the css makes perfect sense
[2011-07-26 21::09:08] jacine: barraponto: for what though?  I think we really only want the bare essentials.
[2011-07-26 21::09:11] barraponto: jacine: i have noticed several (special) form elements are themed in system.base.css
[2011-07-26 21::10:00] jacine: barraponto: yeah, well there is some work to be done in there as well - like splitting up the JS widgets, but we definitely don't care about providing default form styles.
[2011-07-26 21::10:27] barraponto: i didn't mean fluff. i meant hardcore needed stuff.
[2011-07-26 21::10:52] barraponto: just like the throbber.
[2011-07-26 21::11:03] jacine: barraponto: Well, the thing is we are trying to keep a consistent naming system going here so that we can remove the crap we don't want very easily via hook_css_alter()
[2011-07-26 21::11:10] jbeach: throbber is a special example
[2011-07-26 21::11:16] jacine: the throbber is a perfect example of what I'm talking about though.
[2011-07-26 21::11:38] jacine: ideally that the JS and CSS for that would go into it's own folder and those can be made into REAL plugins
[2011-07-26 21::11:54] » Erif_Neerg joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::12:20] jacine: Then we don't always have to load the code for it.
[2011-07-26 21::12:58] » arianek is now known as arianekWORK.
[2011-07-26 21::13:02] jacine: And it's code won't be such a mess - split up all over the place with no real purpose.
[2011-07-26 21::13:05] fubhy: jacine, we have to be careful with core element slike that
[2011-07-26 21::13:19] barraponto: jacine: nice, but it would leave system.base.css almost empty.
[2011-07-26 21::13:24] fubhy: since moving that into its own (deactivateable) module would cause the css aggregation to skip it
[2011-07-26 21::13:25] jacine: Yeah, we do, but all of those core elements should really be libraries 
[2011-07-26 21::13:27] fubhy: on the pages that dont need it
[2011-07-26 21::13:31] barraponto: jacine: actually, it's not a "but". it's a yay.
[2011-07-26 21::13:35] fubhy: and thus cause a second aggregation instance on other pages
[2011-07-26 21::13:47] jacine: fubhy: that needs to be fixed.
[2011-07-26 21::13:49] fubhy: causing the visitor of the site to having to download both of those aggregates
[2011-07-26 21::14:11] » marktfrey left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::14:18] jacine: fubhy: but ideally those will all be grouped into one aggregation group 
[2011-07-26 21::14:35] jacine: sun already did a patch for this in D7, but it was too late :(
[2011-07-26 21::14:43] » dvessel left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::14:47] » dvessel joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::14:48] barraponto: if it is a "form group", then i'm all for forms.css
[2011-07-26 21::15:16] fubhy: jacine, also another thing here
[2011-07-26 21::15:23] barraponto: even if it @includes throbber.css
[2011-07-26 21::15:39] fubhy: I wrote a patch for Omega that causes the aggregation to aggregate css files regardless of what media query they were served with
[2011-07-26 21::15:51] fubhy: core currently opens up a new aggregation group for every media query
[2011-07-26 21::15:55] fubhy: that doesnt have to happen
[2011-07-26 21::16:05] jacine: fubhy: I would LOVE to see that crap fixed. 
[2011-07-26 21::16:09] fubhy: media queries can just be merged into the files
[2011-07-26 21::16:14] jacine: It bugs the crap out of me.
[2011-07-26 21::16:16] fubhy: jacine, omega fixes it!
[2011-07-26 21::16:19] jacine: in core ;)
[2011-07-26 21::16:22] » jerryitt joined the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::16:22] fubhy: :P
[2011-07-26 21::16:24] jacine: hehe :)
[2011-07-26 21::16:31] fubhy: did you see an issue for that anywhere?
[2011-07-26 21::16:37] fubhy: else I will open a new one
[2011-07-26 21::16:41] jacine: Well, I know the issue where the change happened… 
[2011-07-26 21::16:52] jacine: but I would avoid that shit like the plague.
[2011-07-26 21::16:57] fubhy: hehe
[2011-07-26 21::17:15] jacine: I'd definitely read it first, but then start a new one.  Let me find it.
[2011-07-26 21::17:43] fubhy: well there is one bad thing about that: you cant nest media queries... so if you drupal_add_css a file with a media query and want it to work properly with aggregation you cant have sub-media queries in there
[2011-07-26 21::17:47] jacine: fubhy: http://drupal.org/node/769226
[2011-07-26 21::17:47] fubhy: but who would do that anyways?!
[2011-07-26 21::17:51] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/769226 => Optimize JS/CSS aggregation for front-end performance and DX => Drupal core, theme system, normal, closed (fixed), 262 comments, 24 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 21::17:58] fubhy: I could write a regex function that picks up sub-media queries
[2011-07-26 21::18:05] jacine: that sounds sweet :)
[2011-07-26 21::18:07] fubhy: and appends them to the end of the file
[2011-07-26 21::18:12] fubhy: that would work!
[2011-07-26 21::18:14] timplunkett: the last comment there links to http://drupal.org/node/1034208
[2011-07-26 21::18:16] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1034208 => drupal_sort_css_js() ignores media and browser keys => Drupal core, base system, normal, needs review, 6 comments, 1 IRC mention
[2011-07-26 21::18:20] timplunkett: which sounds promising
[2011-07-26 21::18:31] jacine: ah, nice ;)
[2011-07-26 21::18:37] » Snugug left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::18:38] fubhy: timplunkett, jacine okay, I will read that and see what I can do
[2011-07-26 21::18:44] jacine: fubhy++
[2011-07-26 21::18:54] fubhy: :)
[2011-07-26 21::19:26] jacine: fubhy: tag it "front end" and "html5" so we can track it.
[2011-07-26 21::19:34] fubhy: jacine,  okay, will do
[2011-07-26 21::19:38] jacine: thanks!! :)
[2011-07-26 21::21:13] » aquariumtap left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::22:16] fubhy: rupl, so.. how can I help you?
[2011-07-26 21::22:48] jacine: oki, we have sprint 3: http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?issue_tags=HTML5%20Sprint%3A%20August%202011%20-%201
[2011-07-26 21::23:55] » davereid is now known as davereid|brb.
[2011-07-26 21::23:55] jbeach: we should pull previous sprint forward
[2011-07-26 21::23:57] jbeach:      http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?text=&assigned=&submitted=&participant=&issue_tags_op=or&issue_tags=HTML5+Sprint%3A+July+2011+-+1
[2011-07-26 21::24:00] jbeach: http://drupal.org/project/issues/search/drupal?text=&assigned=&submitted=&participant=&issue_tags_op=or&issue_tags=HTML5+Sprint%3A+July+2011+-+12
[2011-07-26 21::24:49] jacine: jbeach: I was wondering how though… should we have a backlog tag?  it's annoying to loose the original tag.
[2011-07-26 21::25:47] fubhy: jacine,  why not just keep adding tags? :P
[2011-07-26 21::25:52] rupl: fubhy: I am trying to write a test for the tel patch: http://drupal.org/node/1174634 - earlier davereid had pointed me to the email patch saying it checked out fine, but I cannot see the difference and this is not a "simple" test as it were
[2011-07-26 21::25:53] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1174634 => Add new HTML5 FAPI element: telephone => Drupal core, forms system, normal, needs review, 8 comments, 4 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 21::25:58] jacine: fubhy: true...
[2011-07-26 21::26:06] » kolafson left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::26:21] jbeach: we could just multi-tag them
[2011-07-26 21::26:24] jbeach: jacine ^
[2011-07-26 21::26:31] jacine: you think we should?
[2011-07-26 21::26:36] jbeach: so we'll know how far they've traveled :/
[2011-07-26 21::26:43] jacine: could get out of hand...
[2011-07-26 21::26:44] » jerryitt left the chat room.
[2011-07-26 21::27:02] fubhy: rupl,  okay, i am reading the code now and will get back to you in a few
[2011-07-26 21::27:12] timplunkett: and now that we have the date created column on the issue view, less important
[2011-07-26 21::27:43] jacine: well, date created is not gonna help much, since we've got so many issues.
[2011-07-26 21::27:47] rupl: fubhy: email patch - http://drupal.org/node/1174620
[2011-07-26 21::27:49] Druplicon: http://drupal.org/node/1174620 => Add new HTML5 FAPI element: email => Drupal core, forms system, normal, needs work, 30 comments, 6 IRC mentions
[2011-07-26 21::28:10] jacine: the tags are really verbose. it's annoying me ;) haha.
[2011-07-26 21::29:23] jacine: alright, so you guys think we should leave the original tag and add the latest sprint tag.
[2011-07-26 21::29:26] jacine: ?
[2011-07-26 21::29:42] fubhy: i dont see why not! :)
[2011-07-26 21::29:50] jacine: oki :)
[2011-07-26 21::29:56] jacine: thanks!
[2011-07-26 21::29:58] fubhy: unless D8 is going to take 5 years
[2011-07-26 21::30:16] jacine: :P
[2011-07-26 21::30:19] fubhy: hehe
[2011-07-26 21::30:19] jacine: God I hope not.