Knight Drupal Initiative

Chat log for October 2, 2009 IRC meeting

add1sun — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:39:15 +0000

This is a copy of the IRC chat log for the KDI meeting in #drupal-dojo on Oct. 2, 2009.

BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 2 15:00:13 2008
Oct 02 15:00:35 <agentrickard> It is time for the KDI meeting -- http://groups.drupal.org/node/15214
Oct 02 15:00:37 <lxpk> Hello
Oct 02 15:00:42 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15214 => Knight Drupal Initiative monthly proposal review -- 2 October 2008 => 6 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:01:16 <agentrickard> We have a lot of ground to cover today
Oct 02 15:01:36 <agentrickard> First question -- would anyone like to moderate (other than me)?
Oct 02 15:02:03 <litwol|mac> agentrickard: feel free to skip over DRLC. i'm swamped with work today and its been pointed out already that the proposal is waiting a rewrite
Oct 02 15:02:38 <agentrickard> litwol|mac: ok. you have a brief slot on the revised agenda.
Oct 02 15:03:09 <litwol|mac> unless dmitrig01 shows up to talk about it i dont think i'll be able to dedicate much thought to discussion. but i'm on IRC anyway so if i get a ping i'll reply.
Oct 02 15:03:14 * catch is here, but not for another 15 minutes or so really.
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Oct 02 15:03:23 <agentrickard> so I suppose that I'm moderating again
Oct 02 15:03:38 <agentrickard> First question
Oct 02 15:03:39 <agentrickard> Now that the number of proposals and the level of participation have both increased, do we need to revisit our standards for approving an application and passing it on to Knight for consideration?
Oct 02 15:03:53 <agentrickard> I see three possible answers
Oct 02 15:03:56 <agentrickard> 1) no
Oct 02 15:04:10 <agentrickard> 2) yes, but not until the next review round (November)
Oct 02 15:04:17 <agentrickard> 3) yes, and we should apply new standards today
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Oct 02 15:04:34 <agentrickard> thoughts?
Oct 02 15:04:56 <j_matthew_s> How high a bar do we collectively want to set?
Oct 02 15:05:01 <litwol|mac> 2
Oct 02 15:05:30 <agentrickard> I think number of votes should probably go up
Oct 02 15:05:46 <sdboyer-laptop> i'm obviously in a conflicted position, but i'd say 2
Oct 02 15:05:54 <agentrickard> there were polls
Oct 02 15:05:56 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15045
Oct 02 15:05:57 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15045 => What minimum average rating should a proposal have to be considered for review? => 1 IRC mention
Oct 02 15:06:06 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15044
Oct 02 15:06:07 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15044 => How many votes should an application have to be considered for review? => 1 IRC mention
Oct 02 15:06:09 <lxpk> 4/5 was the popular choice
Oct 02 15:06:13 <agentrickard> still
Oct 02 15:06:25 <agentrickard> there is some push for a higher vote threshhold
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Oct 02 15:07:03 <agentrickard> I would propose setting the vote threshold at 4/5 and 20 votes, effective November
Oct 02 15:07:17 <lxpk> a minimum of 20?
Oct 02 15:07:22 <agentrickard> yes
Oct 02 15:07:39 <agentrickard> we could set it anywhere we want, actually
Oct 02 15:07:39 <NikLP> more is better for less time wastage, however there is still a limited number of people reviewing these, no? So there needs to be a realistic level
Oct 02 15:07:43 <sdboyer-laptop> that being the minimum that has to be reached before a proposal can be formally considered for being passed along?
Oct 02 15:07:43 * schock (n=sasha@guest-wireless-207-151-228-100.usc.edu) has joined #drupal-dojo
Oct 02 15:07:47 * NikLP returns to "my own business" ;p
Oct 02 15:07:51 <lxpk> Okay then it is a good thing I didn't try to rush my proposal because I wouldn't have had many votes on such short notice
Oct 02 15:08:05 <agentrickard> sdboyer-laptop: yes
Oct 02 15:08:37 * Bojhan (n=bojhan@213-84-190-103.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #drupal-dojo
Oct 02 15:08:39 <sdboyer-laptop> i think 4/5 and 20 votes makes sense
Oct 02 15:08:50 <j_matthew_s> I would also add, that in some cases, there could be merit to a project but there might not be 20 people participating in KDI who feel qualified to vote.
Oct 02 15:08:59 <sdboyer-laptop> ...with exactly that caveat :P
Oct 02 15:09:33 <agentrickard> right. Someone suggested that the voting is just a thermometer, and that the real decision is made in comments or here
Oct 02 15:09:34 * Bojhan is here for questions about usability proposal, if thats allowed.
Oct 02 15:09:54 <agentrickard> Bojhan: you have the last spot on the agenda
Oct 02 15:10:05 <Bojhan> agentrickard: Oke,
Oct 02 15:10:05 <sdboyer-laptop> i had a difficult time getting votes on the Decisionmaking proposal because a lot of folks either cited the concern that j_matthew_s raises, or that they didn't feel comfortable voting until they had time to really digest the whole thing
Oct 02 15:10:17 <agentrickard> right
Oct 02 15:10:19 <sdboyer-laptop> and time...not exactly plentiful :)
Oct 02 15:10:21 <sdboyer-laptop> yeah.
Oct 02 15:10:38 <sdboyer-laptop> BUT, i also think
Oct 02 15:10:53 <sdboyer-laptop> that if a clear target of 20 votes is set
Oct 02 15:11:24 <sdboyer-laptop> then it shouldn't be _that_ hard for people who're serious about thier proposals to move folks towards getting that number of votes
Oct 02 15:11:51 <j_matthew_s> I don't think that any project, at this point, would meet that metric.
Oct 02 15:12:08 <agentrickard> true
Oct 02 15:12:14 <agentrickard> doc sprint is one vote away
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Oct 02 15:12:38 <agentrickard> micro-blogging 3
Oct 02 15:12:40 <agentrickard> ok
Oct 02 15:12:48 <agentrickard> motion to set the bar at 4/5 and 15 votes
Oct 02 15:12:53 <RobLoach> Hi.
Oct 02 15:12:54 <Druplicon> hola
Oct 02 15:13:01 <sdboyer-laptop> hmm...true, i'm looking now and there are fewer votes than i recalled
Oct 02 15:13:08 <sdboyer-laptop> so - ahh perfect, 15
Oct 02 15:13:10 <sdboyer-laptop> second the motion
Oct 02 15:13:10 * langworthy (n=langwort@d207-6-235-96.bchsia.telus.net) has left #drupal-dojo
Oct 02 15:13:15 <agentrickard> ...effective November
Oct 02 15:13:33 <agentrickard> any objections?
Oct 02 15:13:51 * Freso (n=Freso@drupal.org/user/27504/view) has joined #drupal-dojo
Oct 02 15:14:14 <lxpk> sounds good
Oct 02 15:14:18 <RobLoach> 4.5... 15 votes?
Oct 02 15:14:41 <RobLoach> 4/5... 15 votes? Sounds good. I'd rather have it a little higher, but that's just me. I'm good with 4/5 15 votes.
Oct 02 15:14:49 <litwol|mac> our community is HUGE
Oct 02 15:15:02 <j_matthew_s> Still with a two month review period?
Oct 02 15:15:06 <litwol|mac> on top of that, projects need to be well thouht out and reviewed
Oct 02 15:15:09 <BrianV> is there any good way to make a view use a different page.tpl.php than the default? Like perhaps page-VIEWNAME.tpl.php?
Oct 02 15:15:22 <litwol|mac> i say 4/5 with 20-40 votes
Oct 02 15:15:25 <agentrickard> j_matthew_s: I think so.
Oct 02 15:15:25 <j_matthew_s> The community IS huge, but I'm not sure the KDI subset is that big.
Oct 02 15:15:28 <RobLoach> Druplicon: tell BrianV about support
Oct 02 15:15:30 <litwol|mac> it is very easy to get a lot of votes
Oct 02 15:15:43 <BrianV> RobLoach: I know very well where I am :p
Oct 02 15:15:53 <agentrickard> BrianV: we're in the middle of a scheduled meeting
Oct 02 15:15:56 <BrianV> RobLoach: however, the support monkeys have no clue
Oct 02 15:16:08 <BrianV> ok, well - in that case, I'll shut up
Oct 02 15:16:12 <agentrickard> thx
Oct 02 15:16:30 <agentrickard> so, we can defer the rating change
Oct 02 15:16:32 <pinglaura> It would be great of the KDI group had more activity, so it was more of a workshopping group
Oct 02 15:16:37 <pinglaura> like garage.newschallenge.org
Oct 02 15:16:38 <agentrickard> true
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Oct 02 15:16:52 <agentrickard> do we agree that the standards ill not affect today's review?
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Oct 02 15:16:59 <agentrickard> ill = will
Oct 02 15:17:02 <sdboyer-laptop> yes :)
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Oct 02 15:17:36 <agentrickard> I;m still ready to change to 4/5 and 15 votes.
Oct 02 15:17:48 <agentrickard> as I think it's an improvement
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Oct 02 15:18:10 <RobLoach> What was it before?
Oct 02 15:18:13 <agentrickard> 4/5 and 10
Oct 02 15:18:23 <heyrocker> i agree the new standards are an improvement
Oct 02 15:18:24 * bcruiksh (n=Brian@ip72-219-181-186.oc.oc.cox.net) has joined #drupal-dojo
Oct 02 15:18:25 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/11798
Oct 02 15:18:27 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/11798 => Proposal review guide => 7 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:18:29 <sdboyer-laptop> +1 for incremental improvements
Oct 02 15:18:38 <RobLoach> Ah, yeah. I'd have it a bit higher for more community appraisal, but 4/5 is reasonabl.
Oct 02 15:18:42 <RobLoach> *e
Oct 02 15:18:49 <agentrickard> any objections?
Oct 02 15:18:56 <catch__> If we get lots of proposals meeting it, then we can always up it again later right?
Oct 02 15:18:57 <RobLoach> The rating, sorry. I think it's okay though.
Oct 02 15:19:08 <agentrickard> catch__: yup
Oct 02 15:19:11 <catch__> I think the rating could be higher too.
Oct 02 15:19:20 <agentrickard> I agree, but the votes don't so far
Oct 02 15:19:37 <catch__> if 7.5 people vote 3/5 and 7.5 vote 5/5 then it goes through - seems a little low.
Oct 02 15:19:53 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15045
Oct 02 15:19:54 <sdboyer-laptop> doesn't necessarily go through - it's just slated for discussion
Oct 02 15:19:55 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15045 => What minimum average rating should a proposal have to be considered for review? => 2 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:20:03 <j_matthew_s> On a 5 point scale ANY one vote could skew the results
Oct 02 15:20:07 <catch__> Ahh ok. fine with me then :)
Oct 02 15:20:12 <agentrickard> true
Oct 02 15:20:18 <RobLoach> I rated 4.75 there ;-)
Oct 02 15:20:26 <agentrickard> let's make the small adjustment and see what happens
Oct 02 15:20:41 <RobLoach> Minimal 4.25, with 15 votes?
Oct 02 15:20:46 <sdboyer-laptop> j_matthew_s: as (i think) happened with my proposal this morning. at least, the one person who voted a 3 didn't leave a comment, so...
Oct 02 15:20:58 <agentrickard> RobLoach: I think that's reasonable
Oct 02 15:21:10 <RobLoach> catch__?
Oct 02 15:21:22 <catch__> RobLoach: yep, that's great.
Oct 02 15:21:31 <RobLoach> Either one is good.
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Oct 02 15:21:49 <agentrickard> ok, let's try that next time
Oct 02 15:22:10 <agentrickard> on to proposals
Oct 02 15:22:22 <agentrickard> 1 -- http://groups.drupal.org/node/14375
Oct 02 15:22:24 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14375 => drupaleo - talent growing and hiring for drupal => 2 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:22:31 <agentrickard> moving to drop this from consideration
Oct 02 15:22:43 <RobLoach> Yup.
Oct 02 15:23:05 <agentrickard> I think he author has abandoned it
Oct 02 15:23:07 <agentrickard> the
Oct 02 15:23:44 <heyrocker> sounds good to me
Oct 02 15:23:53 <RobLoach> I really like things being hosted within the community itself is the way to go.
Oct 02 15:24:13 <agentrickard> we may get back to that argument later
Oct 02 15:24:18 <RobLoach> *. I think it's the way to go.
Oct 02 15:24:21 <agentrickard> ok. removed
Oct 02 15:24:41 <agentrickard> 2 -- http://groups.drupal.org/node/14669
Oct 02 15:24:42 <RobLoach> But we could consider moving it to another location if the we need it.
Oct 02 15:24:43 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14669 => Documentation sprints for better docs and to grow the team => 6 IRC mentions
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Oct 02 15:24:59 <agentrickard> add1sun: you still want to move forward with the sprints?
Oct 02 15:25:14 <add1sun> agentrickard, yup
Oct 02 15:25:25 <agentrickard> Motion to approve.
Oct 02 15:25:47 * agentrickard needs a second who is not add1sun
Oct 02 15:25:49 * RobLoach votes.
Oct 02 15:25:52 <j_matthew_s> I seocnd
Oct 02 15:25:54 <gusaus> yes
Oct 02 15:26:00 <agentrickard> any objections?
Oct 02 15:26:40 * catch thirds
Oct 02 15:26:59 <agentrickard> ok
Oct 02 15:27:24 <agentrickard> add1sun: I will send a note to you and Jose at Kngith with details and an introduction later today
Oct 02 15:27:31 <add1sun> agentrickard, great!
Oct 02 15:27:35 <add1sun> thanks
Oct 02 15:27:38 <heyrocker> yay!
Oct 02 15:27:41 <agentrickard> sure
Oct 02 15:27:58 <agentrickard> 3 -- http://groups.drupal.org/node/14953
Oct 02 15:28:00 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14953 => Distributed Micro-Blogging => 3 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:28:07 * agentrickard didn't even review this one
Oct 02 15:28:14 <agentrickard> Motion to approve
Oct 02 15:28:24 <RobLoach> Did anyone have any questions about this? I've found that some people don't quite understand it when I first tell them about it.
Oct 02 15:28:24 <add1sun> second
Oct 02 15:28:48 <sdboyer-laptop> sorry, one sec - clarifying question. is there a limit to the number of proposals approved & passed along per month?
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Oct 02 15:29:00 <agentrickard> not yet
Oct 02 15:29:08 <agentrickard> Knight has said they can handle 2 or 3
Oct 02 15:29:10 <sdboyer-laptop> ok
Oct 02 15:29:15 <agentrickard> and we didn't pass any last month
Oct 02 15:29:22 <agentrickard> but that could become an issue
Oct 02 15:29:36 <sdboyer-laptop> yeah, ok
Oct 02 15:29:43 <agentrickard> RobLoach: I don't quite get it. Is this like an open Twitter?'
Oct 02 15:29:45 * Senpai fourths the Documentation Sprints proposal.
Oct 02 15:30:13 <gusaus> RobLoach: i was curious to why/how you chose slicehost for the hosted service
Oct 02 15:30:18 <RobLoach> agentrickard: Exactly like an open Twitter.... Any Drupal site could essentially become a Twitter that would allow users to subscribe to users.
Oct 02 15:30:32 <RobLoach> Not only users on the given server, but any server that runs the specification.
Oct 02 15:30:39 <catch> RobLoach: but all the different sites can talk to each other?
Oct 02 15:30:52 <agentrickard> how does this intersect with Dave Cohen's Drupal for Facebook app?
Oct 02 15:31:02 <RobLoach> catch: Yup!
Oct 02 15:31:30 <RobLoach> agentrickard: It would work very well with Drupal for Facebook, actually, although they arn't in any way related.
Oct 02 15:31:52 <agentrickard> I;m just wondering how similar the two are, since we already sent that one to Knight
Oct 02 15:31:52 <RobLoach> Facebook is a social media platform, this is pretty much a specification for status updates.
Oct 02 15:32:00 <agentrickard> cool by me
Oct 02 15:32:06 * agentrickard is just the process guardian
Oct 02 15:32:09 <RobLoach> This is no way tailored to Facebook, or Twitter.
Oct 02 15:32:18 <agentrickard> any objections to this proposal?
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Oct 02 15:32:41 <sdboyer-laptop> gusaus: i suspect because slicehost is a) extremely reliable, and b) very easy to set up to do exactly what you need it to do, and nothing you don't, and c) has some built-in options that make recovery very easy should something go wrong
Oct 02 15:32:55 <sdboyer-laptop> RobLoach: i dunno if that covers your thinking on slicehost or not :P
Oct 02 15:33:07 <RobLoach> gusaus: We could easily change hosts, if there's a nicer one out there.
Oct 02 15:33:17 <RobLoach> I just put down the first one that came to mind.
Oct 02 15:33:32 <agentrickard> ok, I am reaady to mark this as approved
Oct 02 15:33:49 <agentrickard> RobLoach: can you send me an email address, either here or via pm?
Oct 02 15:33:52 <RobLoach> sdboyer-laptop: I honestly haven't really had much experience with SliceHost, add1sun uses them, so I went with that ;-) .
Oct 02 15:34:00 <agentrickard> add1sun: should I send to your lullabot address?
Oct 02 15:34:02 <RobLoach> Where's walkah ?
Oct 02 15:34:11 <sdboyer-laptop> ahh, ok. well, i use them, and those are MY reasons, so... :)
Oct 02 15:34:16 <agentrickard> dunno
Oct 02 15:34:19 <add1sun> agentrickard, you can use drupal at rocktreesky dot com
Oct 02 15:34:20 <agentrickard> I need his addy too
Oct 02 15:34:43 <agentrickard> add1sun: and this proposal is not involved with Lullabot, right?
Oct 02 15:34:48 <add1sun> agentrickard, correct
Oct 02 15:34:49 * agentrickard forgot to ask earlier
Oct 02 15:34:54 <agentrickard> k
Oct 02 15:34:54 <add1sun> this is personal
Oct 02 15:35:10 <agentrickard> RobLoach: your's too?
Oct 02 15:35:12 <RobLoach> agentrickard: Nope.... James said he was interested in helping out.
Oct 02 15:35:20 <add1sun> but i have cleared with them that i can take leave without pay for portions of it
Oct 02 15:35:29 <agentrickard> wow
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Oct 02 15:36:18 <agentrickard> sdboyer-laptop: we'll get to ou in a sec. just doing some housekeeping
Oct 02 15:36:25 <add1sun> agentrickard, well i can't very well have knight pay me for docs writing and then also have lullabot pay me for the same time ;)
Oct 02 15:36:30 <RobLoach> agentrickard: Yup, this is something that has been on my mind for a while. I brought it up to the community a while ago, and people loved it, but I just have been too busy with client work to dedicate any freetime to it. This is the perfect opportunity.
Oct 02 15:36:31 <sdboyer-laptop> agentrickard: oh no worries. i'm no tgoing anywhere
Oct 02 15:36:36 <agentrickard> add1sun: Addison Berry, right?
Oct 02 15:36:46 <agentrickard> RobLoach: so the intro just goes to you?
Oct 02 15:36:53 <gusaus> that's interesting - is there a rule against a certain # of members from one company being involved in a project?
Oct 02 15:36:57 <add1sun> agentrickard, do you need my legal name or just what i go by?
Oct 02 15:37:18 <agentrickard> what you go by is fine. I;m just doing a formal introduction. Jose Zamora meet X
Oct 02 15:37:20 <RobLoach> agentrickard: Intro? I guess so, I'll try to get James on the phone sometime. add1sun, if you see him around, bug him for me?
Oct 02 15:37:28 <add1sun> agentrickard, cool, yep Addison Berry
Oct 02 15:37:41 <add1sun> RobLoach, sure
Oct 02 15:37:44 <agentrickard> RobLoach: Rob Loach, and an emial addy?
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Oct 02 15:37:58 <RobLoach> Sent.
Oct 02 15:38:26 <agentrickard> ok
Oct 02 15:38:38 <agentrickard> 4-- http://groups.drupal.org/node/14775
Oct 02 15:38:40 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14775 => Decisionmaking API & Consensus Module => 3 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:39:14 <agentrickard> Motion to approve
Oct 02 15:39:23 * agentrickard didn't vote on this one ether
Oct 02 15:39:35 <sdboyer-laptop> any other questions on it?
Oct 02 15:39:45 <sdboyer-laptop> bcruiksh is also here, who'll be working with me on it
Oct 02 15:39:48 <bcruiksh> hi
Oct 02 15:39:57 <lxpk> Can the distributed content architecture be applied to other node types?
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Oct 02 15:40:11 <lxpk> Federating nodes between drupals in general for example
Oct 02 15:40:15 <bcruiksh> we've known each other for over a year so i think we will work well together on it
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Oct 02 15:40:43 <sdboyer-laptop> lxpk: conceptually, i imagine so. i don't know how generalizable that portion of the code would be, however
Oct 02 15:40:50 <sdboyer-laptop> but since you ask, i'll keep it in mind :)
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Oct 02 15:41:13 <agentrickard> do we have a second on this?
Oct 02 15:41:20 <RobLoach> What kind of applications would be produced by this decision making API?
Oct 02 15:41:35 <sdboyer-laptop> RobLoach: in addition to the Consensus module that i wrote up?
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Oct 02 15:42:42 <RobLoach> Yeah, or a web application that uses the consensus module. I just learn by examples.
Oct 02 15:43:00 <sdboyer-laptop> i think i see whatcha mean
Oct 02 15:43:01 <sdboyer-laptop> well
Oct 02 15:43:18 <sdboyer-laptop> in the actual implementation & reporting phase of the project
Oct 02 15:44:01 <sdboyer-laptop> we'll be making the consensus process available to a social network-type site that does a pretty heavy-duty implementation of OG
Oct 02 15:44:32 <sdboyer-laptop> so that'll mean that those groups can initiate consensus processes at will, on whatever topics they want
Oct 02 15:44:47 <sdboyer-laptop> ...or, identical processes could be triggered centrally across a large number of different groups
Oct 02 15:45:39 <sdboyer-laptop> some of those groups will need to care about confidentiality within those decisions, so the contents will be shielded
Oct 02 15:45:43 <sdboyer-laptop> as will the archived versions
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Oct 02 15:45:52 <sdboyer-laptop> others won't have that concern
Oct 02 15:46:19 <RobLoach> Will it use the Voting API?
Oct 02 15:46:21 <sdboyer-laptop> but really, the point is that the groups can start a consensus process to decide on anything they want to decide on
Oct 02 15:46:26 <sdboyer-laptop> eaton posted about that briefly
Oct 02 15:46:37 <sdboyer-laptop> and i mentioned it - yes, it will implement pieces of the votingAPI
Oct 02 15:46:39 <sdboyer-laptop> or rather
Oct 02 15:46:51 <sdboyer-laptop> VotingAPI-type tools will be available as components of a decisionmaking process
Oct 02 15:47:45 <RobLoach> You were talking about making it run on different systems, will those communicate to get tallies from different sources?
Oct 02 15:47:57 <sdboyer-laptop> but the idea is that the API will encompass an entire process that is beyond the scope of any individual thing that votingAPI does/supports
Oct 02 15:48:26 <RobLoach> Interesting.
Oct 02 15:48:56 <agentrickard> right
Oct 02 15:48:56 <RobLoach> I wish I knew more about this stuff.... I'll read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making more.
Oct 02 15:48:59 <sdboyer-laptop> RobLoach: hmm...clarify what you mean? i'm sure i've talked about running on different systems, but that doesn't pare it down
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Oct 02 15:49:05 <agentrickard> so the proposal has enough support
Oct 02 15:49:10 <sdboyer-laptop> i feel like that could mean a couple things :)
Oct 02 15:49:19 <agentrickard> moving again to approve
Oct 02 15:49:52 <agentrickard> second?
Oct 02 15:50:11 <sdboyer-laptop> ...
Oct 02 15:50:15 <agentrickard> hrm
Oct 02 15:50:22 <sdboyer-laptop> well that's a problem.
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Oct 02 15:50:54 <RobLoach> If we had the system right now, it would help us in this situation :-P .
Oct 02 15:50:57 <agentrickard> it's a complex proposal -- is anyone here who voted for it?
Oct 02 15:51:07 * eaton (n=eaton@drupal.org/user/16496/view) has joined #drupal-dojo
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Oct 02 15:51:26 <RobLoach> I didn't vote on it because I wasn't too sure how it worked. I'm still now sure how it works. Get back to me in a bit.
Oct 02 15:51:29 <add1sun> speaking of eaton
Oct 02 15:51:34 <sdboyer-laptop> RobLoach: ain't it so =)
Oct 02 15:51:37 <agentrickard> ah yup
Oct 02 15:51:44 <eaton> RAR, etc.
Oct 02 15:51:55 <agentrickard> eaton: we're looking for a secod on http://groups.drupal.org/node/14775
Oct 02 15:51:56 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14775 => Decisionmaking API & Consensus Module => 4 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:52:27 <agentrickard> er, a second
Oct 02 15:52:43 <eaton> I'd second it.
Oct 02 15:52:48 <agentrickard> ok then
Oct 02 15:52:52 <agentrickard> any objections
Oct 02 15:52:53 <agentrickard> ?
Oct 02 15:52:58 <eaton> God knows VotingAPI isn't up to the task of handling those things ;)
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Oct 02 15:53:11 <agentrickard> LOL
Oct 02 15:53:15 <catch> I'd third it, I spoke to sdboyer about it in person a few weeks back.
Oct 02 15:53:25 <RobLoach> Fourthed.
Oct 02 15:53:27 <agentrickard> sdboyer-laptop: I think you're through
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Oct 02 15:53:39 <catch> And it's definitely out of scope of voting api (or OG, or any on of it's consituent parts)
Oct 02 15:53:42 <agentrickard> sdboyer-laptop: anyone else need to be on the introdution letter?
Oct 02 15:53:44 <sdboyer-laptop> cool. thanks :)
Oct 02 15:53:49 <bcruiksh> w00t
Oct 02 15:54:15 <sdboyer-laptop> agentrickard: sure - bcruiksh, could you PM agentrickard with your email?
Oct 02 15:54:21 <bcruiksh> yeah
Oct 02 15:54:39 <sdboyer-laptop> agentrickard: i'll take care of the other necessary intros after that
Oct 02 15:56:06 <agentrickard> ok
Oct 02 15:56:08 <agentrickard> got it
Oct 02 15:56:20 <sdboyer-laptop> great. thanks folks!
Oct 02 15:56:27 <agentrickard> so that gives us thre this month
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Oct 02 15:56:29 <RobLoach> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/Consensus-flowchart.p... . It will implement this workflow into Voting API, and Organic Groups?
Oct 02 15:56:39 <agentrickard> next, we do have two returning proposals
Oct 02 15:56:50 <agentrickard> 5 -- http://groups.drupal.org/node/14760
Oct 02 15:56:51 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14760 => Drupal Learning Resource Center => 14 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:57:00 * RobLoach votes yes.
Oct 02 15:57:16 <sdboyer-laptop> RobLoach: that, or something very close to it. I detailed out the basic process we'd be working from in a comment on the original proposal
Oct 02 15:57:17 <agentrickard> this one has enough votes but is on hold due to questions about the d.o. redesign
Oct 02 15:57:18 * litwol|mac raises eyes
Oct 02 15:57:33 <RobLoach> sdboyer-laptop: I'll read up on it more, sounds pretty hardcore.
Oct 02 15:57:49 <sdboyer-laptop> RobLoach: cool cool - i look forward to your comments
Oct 02 15:58:00 <gusaus_> i gave this a no for several reasons - one being that it's trying to replace a project (the drupal dojo) that is not dead
Oct 02 15:58:11 <agentrickard> well, there's that, too
Oct 02 15:58:21 <agentrickard> I would vote it down because of the redesign
Oct 02 15:58:47 <agentrickard> so litwol|mac and I discussed in the thread just tabling this for a month until some questions get resolved
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Oct 02 15:58:50 <litwol|mac> agentrickard: unfortunately the answer is this: "yes we do opan to have full integraton. unfortunately we do not have technical information sufficient enough to be able to say _how_ we will integrate it. right now it is just a vision that it will be, but it is a vision that will not happen before phase 2-3"
Oct 02 15:58:51 <catch> I'd personally vote it down due to the redesign as well - until that's massively underway, we don't know where anything else fits in.
Oct 02 15:58:59 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14760#comment-51930
Oct 02 15:59:01 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14760 => Drupal Learning Resource Center => 15 IRC mentions
Oct 02 15:59:01 <litwol|mac> s/opan/plan
Oct 02 15:59:16 <agentrickard> right
Oct 02 15:59:30 <agentrickard> are you ok with deferring until next month?
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Oct 02 15:59:36 <litwol|mac> that is preferred
Oct 02 15:59:39 <sdboyer-laptop> yeah - i'd agree with catch and agentrickard's comments there. i think there's a lot of great ideas about the proposal, but it'd be premature to plan anything too concrete now
Oct 02 16:00:08 <gusaus_> the site redesign is also just one small issue - a larger problem is how to create a sustainable effort for learning
Oct 02 16:00:15 <agentrickard> Motion to postpone decision on the proposal -- without penalty, since we have a two-strikes and you're out policy
Oct 02 16:00:25 <litwol|mac> serious?
Oct 02 16:00:27 <litwol|mac> thats new
Oct 02 16:00:41 <litwol|mac> how many strikes do we have so far ?
Oct 02 16:00:46 <agentrickard> 0
Oct 02 16:00:50 <litwol|mac> whew
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Oct 02 16:00:58 <agentrickard> last month was just an intro, right?
Oct 02 16:01:05 <litwol|mac> i guess
Oct 02 16:01:06 <litwol|mac> yes
Oct 02 16:01:15 <sdboyer-laptop> second the motion
Oct 02 16:01:20 <RobLoach> Yeah, I'd like to see how it would work with the Drupal Dojo? Does it build upon it?
Oct 02 16:01:26 <agentrickard> we've been doing the "two reviews and out" for a while now, to avoid dragging things out
Oct 02 16:02:02 <litwol|mac> agentrickard: i just need to understand this. preferably i want to postpone this proposal as long as needed until road map is well planned out. i dont want this project to be penalized for having too much collaboration on it O_o
Oct 02 16:02:09 <litwol|mac> unless i am misunderstanding the strike out rule
Oct 02 16:02:26 <catch> I think next month would be too early in terms of the redesign.
Oct 02 16:02:30 <agentrickard> litwol|mac: I think postponing is fine
Oct 02 16:02:34 <litwol|mac> ok ty
Oct 02 16:02:34 <catch> The same issues will apply as now.
Oct 02 16:02:43 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14760#comment-52553
Oct 02 16:02:45 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14760 => Drupal Learning Resource Center => 16 IRC mentions
Oct 02 16:02:58 <agentrickard> but that does raise interesting questions -- we are trying to be fair
Oct 02 16:03:14 <agentrickard> and, officially, the next proposal is getting it's "first review" today as well
Oct 02 16:03:28 <agentrickard> 6 -- http://groups.drupal.org/node/14722
Oct 02 16:03:30 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14722 => Grant-Making System => 4 IRC mentions
Oct 02 16:03:37 * RobLoach votes no.

Oct 02 16:04:08 <litwol|mac> this is such a grey area
Oct 02 16:04:15 <agentrickard> well, it doesn't have enough votes for final review. I think the difference is that the DLRC had 10+
Oct 02 16:04:18 <agentrickard> it is
Oct 02 16:04:20 <Senpai> litwol|mac: Might i suggest that you place the proposal 'on indefinite hold' until such time as it becomes a viable proposal for it's circumstances, and in so doing keep it from showing up each and every month?
Oct 02 16:04:22 <agentrickard> we just want to be fair
Oct 02 16:04:43 <agentrickard> we could do that later
Oct 02 16:04:48 <RobLoach> Again, I like things being hosted in the community itself as much as possible. If the Knight Drupal Initiative requires a grant making system, then sure, but I don't see the need now. agentrickard would know more.
Oct 02 16:04:50 <pinglaura> This is our first time up, a little premature to say it's "each and every month" now isn't it?
Oct 02 16:04:57 <litwol|mac> Senpai: very good. i would like that. i much rather take the time to do it right rather than rush.
Oct 02 16:04:58 <agentrickard> ?
Oct 02 16:05:07 <agentrickard> pinglaura: Not sure I understand the question
Oct 02 16:05:17 <RobLoach> Senpai: I'll look around and ask dmitri and other people about how this works with the Dojo....
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Oct 02 16:05:30 <catch> This looks like an implementation of sdboyer-laptop's api to me.
Oct 02 16:05:34 <j_matthew_s> Quick request
Oct 02 16:05:38 <agentrickard> sure
Oct 02 16:05:42 <agentrickard> it's your time now
Oct 02 16:05:45 <gusaus_> RobLoach: i've also been doing a lot of that
Oct 02 16:05:49 <gusaus_> http://groups.drupal.org/node/7228
Oct 02 16:05:50 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/7228 => Drupal Dojo 2.0 resource board => 28 IRC mentions
Oct 02 16:06:04 <agentrickard> can we all move on to the Grant Making proposal?
Oct 02 16:06:05 <j_matthew_s> Can we finish up the last discussion before starting this one...
Oct 02 16:06:11 <agentrickard> sure
Oct 02 16:06:13 <RobLoach> gusaus_: Right.
Oct 02 16:06:26 <RobLoach> No more Dojo/Learning discussion! :-)
Oct 02 16:06:42 <sdboyer-laptop> catch: ooh. now that's an interesting thought, heh
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Oct 02 16:06:53 <agentrickard> well, one more -- should I freeze the DLRC proposal?
Oct 02 16:07:04 <catch> agentrickard: yes, IMO.
Oct 02 16:07:10 <agentrickard> litwol|mac: ?
Oct 02 16:07:15 <Senpai> agentrickard: Send it on vacation
Oct 02 16:07:20 <gusaus> agentrickard: yes
Oct 02 16:07:28 <litwol|mac> agentrickard: postponed until next notice when we deem it ready
Oct 02 16:07:33 <Senpai> agentrickard: litwol said that freezing it was a great idea.
Oct 02 16:07:52 <litwol|mac> alas day job gets in a way to put sufficient volunteering effort into producing a concrete proposal
Oct 02 16:07:57 <litwol|mac> i need to research integration points
Oct 02 16:08:28 <gusaus> this is not to say that we can't continue moving forward with the project that was started months ago :)
Oct 02 16:08:34 <agentrickard> litwol|mac: right, and we should talk again when the next agenda is being formed
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Oct 02 16:08:50 <RobLoach> I guess put leave the DRLC up for discussion and review till next month?
Oct 02 16:08:53 <RobLoach> catch?
Oct 02 16:09:09 <agentrickard> RobLoach: done
Oct 02 16:09:18 <litwol|mac> i think what agentrickard wants is to move on other topics. drlc have already been discussed today. thx
Oct 02 16:09:23 <agentrickard> :-)
Oct 02 16:09:28 <agentrickard> we have 20 minutes left
Oct 02 16:09:36 <agentrickard> and j_matthew_s needs the floor
Oct 02 16:09:44 <RobLoach> The Grant System now?
Oct 02 16:09:48 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14722
Oct 02 16:09:50 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14722 => Grant-Making System => 5 IRC mentions
Oct 02 16:09:52 <agentrickard> yes
Oct 02 16:10:18 <agentrickard> this is a tough one because it is very large and very complex. I have not voted on it.
Oct 02 16:10:35 <RobLoach> I still vote no.... Unless agentrickard thinks that we need a grant system (which is already being done through the Consensus system), I don't think this is really needed.
Oct 02 16:10:38 <j_matthew_s> We've been communicating with those in the nonprofit community quite a bit in the last month.
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Oct 02 16:11:02 <pinglaura> RobLoach: I don't understand your comment. Who is "we"?
Oct 02 16:11:06 <j_matthew_s> This is rather different than the concensus system.
Oct 02 16:11:30 <agentrickard> I agree with j_matthew_s and pinglaura
Oct 02 16:11:30 <RobLoach> pinglaura: Sorry, the Drupal Knight Initiative.
Oct 02 16:11:37 <litwol|mac> scope is too big
Oct 02 16:11:42 <litwol|mac> so big i find it to be bloatware
Oct 02 16:11:50 <agentrickard> hm
Oct 02 16:11:51 <catch> j_matthew_s: well, the consensus system is an implementation of a decision making API, which from reading the proposal, this could be too.
Oct 02 16:11:52 <j_matthew_s> And is focused on concentric circles around two communities
Oct 02 16:11:54 <litwol|mac> KDI is a grant making system
Oct 02 16:12:00 <agentrickard> no
Oct 02 16:12:05 <litwol|mac> for smaller scope you ahve chipin for other grants :-p
Oct 02 16:12:05 <agentrickard> KDI is a decision-making system
Oct 02 16:12:10 <pinglaura> bloatware? Because it's big, doesn't mean it's bloated does it?
Oct 02 16:12:14 <agentrickard> Knight Foundation is a grant making sstem
Oct 02 16:12:16 <agentrickard> system
Oct 02 16:12:19 <litwol|mac> agentrickard: sure, but it pas in the end :)
Oct 02 16:12:21 <litwol|mac> oh
Oct 02 16:12:22 <litwol|mac> sorry
Oct 02 16:12:26 * litwol|mac refrase
Oct 02 16:12:43 <litwol|mac> KF is a grant making system. huge huge organization.
Oct 02 16:12:49 <pinglaura> Knight Foundation is one of thousands of organizations that handles grant applications in efforts to give away money. There is no open source solution for this.
Oct 02 16:12:53 <litwol|mac> i dont understand why reinventing is necessary
Oct 02 16:12:56 <agentrickard> I think we have trouble talking about this one because it is pretty alien to most of us
Oct 02 16:13:05 <j_matthew_s> What we are suggesting is building a system--that is needed--that serves to help orgs like Knight give money away.
Oct 02 16:13:14 <agentrickard> litwol|mac: it isn;t quite reinventing
Oct 02 16:13:17 <pinglaura> litwol|mac: reinventing what?
Oct 02 16:13:20 <litwol|mac> nm
Oct 02 16:13:20 <gusaus> i love the idea(l)/concept in general, but need to take more time to understand
Oct 02 16:13:48 <agentrickard> j_matthew_s: the only thing i know is that here in Georgia, a lot of grants go through a central state-run application process.
Oct 02 16:13:52 <litwol|mac> i officialy withdraw my opinion from this project as i lack experience on the subject to make any useful contribution to the discussion.
Oct 02 16:14:11 <catch> j_matthew_s: do you need more clarification on my comment?
Oct 02 16:14:27 <pinglaura> This proposal is to foundations what Drupal blog modules is to Blogger.com
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Oct 02 16:14:49 <j_matthew_s> @catch no, I think it is different though.
Oct 02 16:15:01 <pinglaura> Except that foundnations don't have blogger.com, they have things like Blackbaud, which cost tens of thousands of dollars a year.
Oct 02 16:15:03 <RobLoach> Looking at the proposed features, it seems like the majority of these could be achieved by modules already out there....... Drupal core, Ubercart, Voting API, Organic Groups, etc.
Oct 02 16:15:07 <catch> j_matthew_s: could you explain how it's different?
Oct 02 16:15:11 <j_matthew_s> @catch Voting is a tiny piece of grantmaking.
Oct 02 16:15:29 <RobLoach> I also don't see a mention of an install profile.
Oct 02 16:15:31 <sdboyer-laptop> j_matthew_s: voting isn't what the decisionmaking api is fundamentally about :P
Oct 02 16:16:00 <j_matthew_s> @sdboyer I understand that.
Oct 02 16:16:03 <agentrickard> ok. this is going to be a tough one
Oct 02 16:16:07 <agentrickard> let me back up a bit
Oct 02 16:16:34 <agentrickard> the reason we have a "two review" policy right now is because of a similar proposal that most of the community didn't really "get"
Oct 02 16:16:49 <agentrickard> so we voted on a policy so we didn't have to have the same arguments over and over
Oct 02 16:16:57 <RobLoach> A well code-commented Drupal 6 module package incorporating Drupal best practices, including: Module and include files, template files, css files, GPL licence icons, install.txt, readme.txt, required files (.info)....... Sounds like just any old module.
Oct 02 16:17:03 <agentrickard> that was the NoewsCloud proposal, for those of your following along
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Oct 02 16:17:27 <agentrickard> we obviously are not going to pass this proposal today
Oct 02 16:17:46 <pinglaura> As this is our first time up, and it seems many of the opposing comments on the thread have questioned the use of open source period in this context, I would request that this be postponed for a month pending more relevant and constructive feedback. This proposal won't make sense to people not heavily involved in non-profits.
Oct 02 16:17:46 <agentrickard> so my procedure question is -- what do the sponsors want from us, as a comunity?
Oct 02 16:18:13 <agentrickard> I'm ok with that.
Oct 02 16:18:16 * litwol|mac understands this better now
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Oct 02 16:18:46 <litwol|mac> how does this compare with civicrm?
Oct 02 16:18:52 <pinglaura> We don't want to bull this through, but it's clear that we aren't communicating our intent clearly enough to those who have seen the proposal.
Oct 02 16:18:58 <agentrickard> I actually don't question the use of open source. My concern is that it won't get funded because the reuest is too large
Oct 02 16:19:04 <pinglaura> litwol|mac: that is addressed in the discussion
Oct 02 16:19:10 <RobLoach> I'm involved in non-profits, one of my clients is a hospital. I just don't really see how this would work with the Drupal community because you don't really mention Install Profiles, the specific module you'd be developing, or the other modules in the community that you'd be using.
Oct 02 16:19:11 * litwol|mac goes read
Oct 02 16:19:18 <sdboyer-laptop> pinglaura: fwiw, i'll second the usefulness of the idea (as someone "heavily involved with non-profits")
Oct 02 16:19:20 <agentrickard> pinglaura: that seems accurate to me
Oct 02 16:19:32 <pinglaura> agentrickard: Yes, and that may be.
Oct 02 16:19:55 <agentrickard> we should reach out to Jose on that -- would you like me to do so?
Oct 02 16:20:25 <catch> pinglaura: my concerns are 1. many features are covered by Drupal + contribs 2. huge scope of project 3. lack of specifics about architecture and technical scope.
Oct 02 16:20:28 <pinglaura> agentrickard: absolutely.
Oct 02 16:20:28 <j_matthew_s> @RobLoach We certainly could add those details to the propoal.
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Oct 02 16:20:53 <RobLoach> j_matthew_s: That would be wicked. I'd like to see more information about how you'd develop the system. Thanks a lot :-) .
Oct 02 16:21:06 <agentrickard> ok, let's table this one for this month, without penalty. And I;ll send a note to the sponsors and Jose at Knight
Oct 02 16:21:13 <agentrickard> scuse me -- just to Jose
Oct 02 16:21:15 <gusaus> RobLoach: i had a similar question - having this type of functionality that we could integrate into a drupal website would be great
Oct 02 16:21:24 <j_matthew_s> @agentrickard Thanks
Oct 02 16:21:28 <agentrickard> ok
Oct 02 16:21:30 <agentrickard> moving on
Oct 02 16:21:48 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15448
Oct 02 16:21:49 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15448 => Formal usability testing of Drupal 7.x/8.x/9.x => 4 IRC mentions
Oct 02 16:22:01 <agentrickard> This is new, and so gets to wait a month
Oct 02 16:22:01 <add1sun> woot woot
Oct 02 16:22:06 <RobLoach> catch__: *cough*
Oct 02 16:22:13 <agentrickard> I wonder if we should be asking for all three now...
Oct 02 16:22:29 <agentrickard> but this seems like an obvious selectin
Oct 02 16:22:33 <agentrickard> tion
Oct 02 16:22:47 <RobLoach> I'm voting a yes on here. Having the usability testing presented in Boston really benefited the effort for usability in both Drupal 6 and 7.
Oct 02 16:23:13 <catch> I'm here for questions.
Oct 02 16:23:23 <RobLoach> catch: Got a question.
Oct 02 16:23:27 <add1sun> catch, why are you so awesome?
Oct 02 16:23:32 <add1sun> ;)
Oct 02 16:23:45 <agentrickard> I would suggest that we might scale it back from 4 to 2.
Oct 02 16:23:45 <catch> aww.
Oct 02 16:24:00 <gusaus> really just glancing over for the first time - it's good to see these doc and testing proposals
Oct 02 16:24:03 * agentrickard isn't sure Knight will give all the money we're asking for
Oct 02 16:24:13 <catch> agentrickard: make it annual, or just for one year?
Oct 02 16:24:29 <RobLoach> catch: In Boston, we talked about how those people were completely new to Drupal. Will the next round get the terms before jumping in ;-) .
Oct 02 16:24:41 <RobLoach> *those people who did the usability testing.
Oct 02 16:24:43 <gusaus> on both, i'm wondering if any of this could be done remotely (at least in conjunction w/ in person sprints)
Oct 02 16:24:54 <agentrickard> Maybe just for one year, with a note about renewing annually? Then you can have that discussion with Knight later
Oct 02 16:25:00 <catch> agentrickard: I think we can make it cheaper, but it's hard to do that until we know where Drupalcons will be held.
Oct 02 16:25:09 <agentrickard> I just suspect they are more likely to approve $60,000 instead of $130,000
Oct 02 16:25:15 <catch> agentrickard: we have a tentative offer of a free lab already, but obviously no confirmation.
Oct 02 16:25:33 <catch> gusaus: doing it in person is /very/ different.
Oct 02 16:25:36 <agentrickard> catch: I think add1sun made a good point about _not_ doing these sprints during DrupalCON
Oct 02 16:25:43 <agentrickard> in her proposal
Oct 02 16:25:53 <catch> gusaus: I'd like to see boombatower put in a proposal for UTS infrastructure separately.
Oct 02 16:25:59 <agentrickard> but that's just something to consider
Oct 02 16:26:03 <agentrickard> note this -- http://groups.drupal.org/node/15448#comment-52418
Oct 02 16:26:05 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/15448 => Formal usability testing of Drupal 7.x/8.x/9.x => 5 IRC mentions
Oct 02 16:26:11 <catch> agentrickard: I think having this the week before Drupalcon is key - keeps it fresh.
Oct 02 16:26:15 <RobLoach> agentrickard: Haha, I just read that.
Oct 02 16:26:17 <agentrickard> first Dries post in the KDI
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Oct 02 16:26:34 <agentrickard> catch week before sounds good
Oct 02 16:26:39 <catch> agentrickard: we're supposed to be rewriting the deliverables section.
Oct 02 16:26:44 <agentrickard> ok
Oct 02 16:26:51 <add1sun> gusaus, sure some stuff can be done virtually but the most effective and most expensive is live person sprints/testing, hence the proposals
Oct 02 16:27:02 <agentrickard> well, this is your "introduction" meeting, so first review is next month
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Oct 02 16:27:22 <agentrickard> anyone here from http://groups.drupal.org/node/14943 ?
Oct 02 16:27:23 <catch> agentrickard: yeah, always the week before, but a repeat of yoroy's UX sprint will be a 'free add-on' during Drupalcon to follow up in depth (+ presentations etc.)
Oct 02 16:27:23 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14943 => Sustainable Development, Installation and Maintenance through Open Contributions => 1 IRC mention
Oct 02 16:27:24 <RobLoach> Approved! :-P
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Oct 02 16:27:48 <agentrickard> RobLoach: it has to wait a month :-(
Oct 02 16:27:51 <gusaus> catch: add1sun agreed - i'm just thinking there may be ways to make it even more kick ass and complimentary
Oct 02 16:28:04 <agentrickard> anyone here from http://groups.drupal.org/node/14838 ?
Oct 02 16:28:06 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14838 => Mediabyu => 1 IRC mention
Oct 02 16:28:06 <catch> agentrickard: one quick question. If we get approval, we'd love to start in February (US Drupalcon)
Oct 02 16:28:09 <add1sun> gusaus, sure, but that's not what we are voting on ;)
Oct 02 16:28:21 <agentrickard> catch: ok. what's the question?
Oct 02 16:28:34 <catch> agentrickard: does Knight's schedule allow for anything like doing things that quick?
Oct 02 16:28:43 <agentrickard> it depends
Oct 02 16:28:46 <agentrickard> possibly
Oct 02 16:28:57 <agentrickard> any of our former winners around?
Oct 02 16:29:09 <catch> agentrickard: also, the four people on that proposal aren't a formal organisation as such, so actually receiving the funding we need to sort out ;)
Oct 02 16:29:19 <timmillwood> RobLoach: how's it going?
Oct 02 16:29:21 <catch> But most of it will go straight into labs/expenses.
Oct 02 16:29:21 <agentrickard> Knight will help you with that
Oct 02 16:29:36 <catch> agentrickard: OK cool.
Oct 02 16:29:49 <agentrickard> Knight has all the project management you need, and can help you set up a non-profit holding company, I elieve
Oct 02 16:29:53 <agentrickard> believe
Oct 02 16:29:56 <catch> lovely.
Oct 02 16:30:18 <agentrickard> any of your folks US citizens? That might nmake it faster.
Oct 02 16:30:25 <catch> beeradb is.
Oct 02 16:30:36 <agentrickard> k
Oct 02 16:30:43 <agentrickard> well, we're out of time
Oct 02 16:30:50 <catch> Really this is an 'open' proposal, so if we need to, we can add US citizens to the list if they're regular Drupal people :)
Oct 02 16:30:55 <agentrickard> do we need to extend the next meeting?
Oct 02 16:31:12 <gusaus> wow - some great proposals and discussion points
Oct 02 16:31:14 <agentrickard> catch: I don't think that's a rquiremtn. Knight works with non-US enitiesm too
Oct 02 16:31:42 <agentrickard> pinglaura: j_matthew_s: I'd really like to get some more well-trained eyes on your proposal
Oct 02 16:31:54 <j_matthew_s> @agentrickard
Oct 02 16:32:02 <j_matthew_s> Yes
Oct 02 16:32:18 * agentrickard is amused that he only voted on 2 of this month's proposals
Oct 02 16:32:36 <agentrickard> one thing o keep in mind
Oct 02 16:33:07 <agentrickard> Knight does not have unlimited funds. We are tapping into some "undefined" pool of money.
Oct 02 16:33:32 <j_matthew_s> @agentrickard It will be helpful to hear what Jose has to say.
Oct 02 16:34:26 <agentrickard> These next three apps ask for about $180K
Oct 02 16:34:32 * CrashTest__ (n=CrashTes@67.60.130.116) has joined #drupal-dojo
Oct 02 16:34:34 <gusaus> maybe another good point is that KDI could partially fund project (i.e. you can start them up via other means such as corporate sponsorships and individual donations)
Oct 02 16:34:41 <agentrickard> that's tru
Oct 02 16:34:50 <agentrickard> you could ask for a percentage
Oct 02 16:34:55 <agentrickard> of hte toal project
Oct 02 16:35:07 <agentrickard> when / if you do that, Knight wants to know who else is funding
Oct 02 16:35:13 * agentrickard cannot type
Oct 02 16:35:22 <agentrickard> ok, I have emails to write
Oct 02 16:35:29 <gusaus> that was exactly what I had in mind for the proposal I was going to submit for the dojo
Oct 02 16:35:34 <agentrickard> can someone post the IRC transcript?
Oct 02 16:35:41 <j_matthew_s> Thanks for chairing the meeting agentrickard
Oct 02 16:35:46 <agentrickard> sure
Oct 02 16:35:53 <agentrickard> and if anyone wants to do the next one....
Oct 02 16:36:03 * agentrickard is just the "process guardian" here
Oct 02 16:36:04 <j_matthew_s> I'll post the transcript
Oct 02 16:36:09 <agentrickard> cool
Oct 02 16:36:27 <agentrickard> sample
Oct 02 16:36:28 <agentrickard> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14788
Oct 02 16:36:30 <Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/14788 => Chat transcript, IRC Meeting, September 11, 2008 => 3 IRC mentions
Oct 02 16:36:46 <catch> agentrickard: thanks!
Oct 02 16:36:51 <agentrickard> sure
Oct 02 16:37:13 <j_matthew_s> Actually, not sure that I logged it.
Oct 02 16:38:21 <add1sun> i have the log
Oct 02 16:38:24 <j_matthew_s> Sorry! Shouldn't have offered so quickly!
Oct 02 16:38:29 <gusaus> j_matthew_s: http://www.disobey.com/bot/log/drupal-dojo/2008-10-03

Knight Drupal Initiative

Formal usability testing of Drupal in 2009

catch — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:50:31 +0000

Previous usability testing at the University of Minnesota(UMN) and the University of Baltimore(UB) highlighted many issues with Drupal's usability, resulted in a number of solutions, and did a great deal to raise the profile of usability testing within the Drupal community as a whole. While follow-ups to these sessions have been mentioned, as yet, no further labs have come forward to donate facilities. This KDI proposal is to guarantee formal testing of Drupal for the next two years, so that the profile and momentum already achieved within both the Drupal development community, and the wider user experience community as a whole can be maintained and built upon.

We would like to apply for funding for two, one week long, testing sessions. Three days of formal testing, then a three day sprint afterwards to collate the data, prototype solutions and share findings with the whole community.

These would be conducted at a usability lab or equivalent facility, and would include key people in the Drupal community (including developers, usability experts and designers) being on site for the duration of testing. The sessions would be held six months apart, during the week before Drupalcon. This would allow for sufficient time between testing to develop solutions for some of the issues found, and is the most likely time to get 10-12 Drupallers in the same place at one time.

Usability

Knight Drupal Initiative monthly proposal review -- 2 October 2008

agentrickard@drupal.org — Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:28:40 +0000

We will have our monthly review meeting on Thursday, 2 October 2008 at 15:00 EDT (19:00 UTC).

The meeting will be held in IRC #drupal-dojo on irc.freenode.net. (See http://drupal.org/irc for information about using IRC.) We will meet for 1:30 with the following agenda:

Agenda

Community Review Process

Now that the number of proposals and the level of participation have both increased, do we need to revisit our standards for approving an application and passing it on to Knight for consideration?

Proposals to Review

drupaleo - talent growing and hiring for drupal
Motion to remove this proposal from consideration.
Documentation sprints for better docs and to grow the team
Review for approval.
Distributed Micro-Blogging
Review for approval.
Decisionmaking API & Consensus Module
Review for approval.

Under Consideration

Drupal Learning Resource Center
Status update discussion.
Grant-Making System
Status update discussion.

New Proposals

Mediabyu
Introduction to the proposal.
Sustainable Development, Installation and Maintenance through Open Contributions
Introduction to the proposal.
Formal usability testing of Drupal 7.x/8.x/9.x
Introduction to the proposal.

Knight Drupal Initiative

Open Invitation to the Alliance for Community Media Conference. October 23-25, 2008 Denver, CO

Deproduction — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 21:46:22 +0000

Recent recipients of a Knight NewsChallenge Award, Denver Open Media is hosting the Western Regional Alliance for Community Media Conference, Oct 23-25, 2008 in Denver, CO. We will be showcasing the Drupal Modules being developed to empower communities through Public Access TV stations and Community Technology Centers. The conference will be highlighting the new media technologies and efforts that allow access centers to operate on a streamlined, user-driven model.

Its not too late to get involved, participate in a panel, or register to attend. For more information, please visit http://accesswithoutborders.org

Tony Shawcross

Knight Drupal Initiative

Proposal review requirements

agentrickard@drupal.org — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:02:46 +0000

In the current draft of the proposal review guide, we set the following standard:

[Items in brackets are subject to change.]

At the end of each [monthly] review period, applications with [10 or more] votes and a rating of [4] or higher will be passed to Knight Foundation for funding review.

When we were first starting, hitting this threshold was often a challenge. Now that we have some momentum, we have some larger and more visible projects. Do we need to revise the rating standard?

When answering the following poll questions, consider that Knight can only review 2 or 3 new proposals per month.

Knight Drupal Initiative

What minimum average rating should a proposal have to be considered for review?

agentrickard@drupal.org — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:58:46 +0000

Knight Drupal Initiative

How many votes should an application have to be considered for review?

agentrickard@drupal.org — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:57:55 +0000

Knight Drupal Initiative

Distributed Micro-Blogging

Rob Loach — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:10:14 +0000

Edit, October 2 -- This proposal has been passed along to the Knight Foundation for consideration -- http://drupal.org/node/316403 End Edit

This is a proposal for funding the implementation of the OpenMicroBlogging specification as a Drupal module, in addition to the creation of an install profile that makes setting up a distributed micro-blog easy.

Introduction

One thing that has really blown up in the past two years is micro-blogging and the idea of sending little updates to a mass majority of people at once. These updates are public, and users can "subscribe" to another's updates, therefore encouraging conversations to start, and "lifestreams" to spawn.

Some fairly large websites that provide this type of service are Twitter, Jaiku, Facebook, Tumblr, Spoink, LinkedIn, and more. On the open source front however, we come into distributed micro-blogging, which allows you to subscribe to updates from anyone, no matter what network they're apart of. This is done via the OpenMicroBlogging specification, with some live implementations of it available at Identi.ca/Laconi.ca and OpenMicroBlogger.com/OpenMicroBlogger.org.

The goal of the project being proposed here is to implement the OpenMicroBlogging specification on top of Drupal so that every Drupal website could become a distributed micro-blogging service. Users could subscribe to updates from anyone, no matter what network they were apart of, as long as that network also implements the OpenMicroBlogging specification.

Project Outcomes

OpenMicroBlogging Module: Work with the Object Oriented Microblogging Libraries project to implement the OpenMicroBlogging specification, allowing two-way subscription with users from other OpenMicroBlogging websites. Running into bugs or shortcomings in the oo-microblogging PHP library will mean contributing back fixes.
Implement Views integration to allow posts to be filtered by user subscriptions, as well as create the default Views to show all updates by a user, all posts from users that are being followed, any replies made back to the user, as well as a list of the current subscriptions.
OpenMicroBlogging Install Profile: Create an openly available install profile that would make setting up a micro-blog extremely easy for new users.
People who want to host their own micro-blog could download the install profile, install it on their server, and then start making posts, and subscribe to updates from anyone on other OpenMicroBlogging networks.
Hosted Solution: Use the install profile to create a hosted solution of the project, allowing users to create their own accounts on-site and start micro-blogging.

Knight Drupal Initiative

Sustainable Development, Installation and Maintenance through Open Contributions

nickvidal — Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:37:14 +0000

Mission
We want every University in the World to be able to have (and sustain) a Content Management System so that students and professors can share information and disseminate education.

Is this Feasible?
Yes, it is very feasible. Even Universities in developing nations, where resources are tight, should.

How?
We propose a sustainable solution for Development, Installation and Maintenance of Content Management Systems through Open Contributions. Specifically, this proposal is for building a module for the Drupal Platform called Open Contributions.

Overview
Instead or charging Universities for the installation of a CMS upfront, and monthly payments for maintenance, we propose another model:

Charge no money at all or a reasonable amount upfront for installation, giving that the University is willing to allow open contributions from users of the system;
The Open Contributions module allows users to contribute with any amount of money to help maintain the system;
All contributions are truly open - not only in the sense that contributions are spontaneous, but also that they are visible. Thus, everyone knows how much each and every individual is contributing. The sum of all contributions is also visible. This helps to keep the process as transparent as possible;
The usefulness of the system for each individual is also measured and visible. This is measured through a series of metrics, such as the dissemination and access of information;
An ordered list is presented with individual contributions and individual usefulness;
It's expected that the individuals who feel that the CMS is most useful for them will make the biggest contributions. But this is not imposed. This is left open. It's up to each individual to understand what's Freedom and Openness. The Open Contributions module only helps people become aware of these open contributions;
The sum of contributions is used to maintain the system. This will go to pay maintainer(s)/developer(s) for their time and work; All these payments are open and visible for anyone to see;
The Open Contributions module will also list the current system and modules installed;
Part of the sum of contributions may be used to pay the developers of each module and the system (in this case, the Drupal Association). These payments will also be open and visible to anyone to see;
To avoid lock-ins, the university is open to look for other companies for maintenance if there is evidence of abusive practices.

Is this sustainable?
We believe the open contributions will be enough to cover the costs of Development, Installation and Maintenance of Content Management Systems at Universities. An example and a rough estimate is provided below:

Let us suppose we have a university with 30.000 people;
Of these, only half uses the CMS, thus: 15.000 people;
Of these, half doesn't contribute with anything, thus: 7.500*0 = $0
From the remaining half, only half of these contribute with $10/year, thus: 7.500*$10 = $75.000/year
From the remaining half, only half of these contribute with $20/year, thus 3.750*$20 = $75.000/year
From the remaining half, only half of these contribute with $40/year, thus 1.875*$40 = $75.000/year
...
Summing all these budgets, we have a very reasonable amount that can be used to maintain and improve the system;
The openness of the system will create a positive peer pressure among the biggest users to contribute (for example, researchers who have big projects that enjoy big visibility);
The openness of the system will create a positive peer pressure for the company that provides the service to distribute the contributions fairly.

Knight Drupal Initiative

Mediabyu

Carlos Miranda Levy@drupal.org — Sat, 13 Sep 2008 05:12:59 +0000

Medios Libres (mediabyu) closes the media gap and content distribution asymmetries by empowering local media, organizations and citizens through profitable convergence. Our goal is to make all content by all people and media, available on all channels and formats to everyone.

Medios Libres allows local media, organizations and citizens to share and distribute content in multiple media and formats and profit from access to it through our Content Marketplace and Custom User-Defined Channels.

Content, submitted via any channel, from mobile phones to web, e-mail or even conventional phone calls, is converted at our Content Convergence Factory so that it can be redistributed through multiple channels, from mobile phones to web, printed media, radio and TV, multiplying revenue generation and audience reach for each provider.

A top level content review, indexing and tagging process at our Content Processing and Editorial Factory ensures the quality of content and relevance of search results and content selection criteria matches.

Existing media can easily incorporate content developed by others within its own publications or broadcasts at competitive rates, with complete assurance of copyright requirements and remuneration of the content owner properly being taken care of. Small media and publications can now benefit from the same wealth of content and diversity of formats only available until now to large media corporations.

Furthermore, any person, institution or media corporation can create custom channels for distributing its own content, or a combination of content from multiple sources, and service it to larger audiences through different devices and media, generating increased revenue which is shared by content providers, the channel creator and Medios Libres as the content distributor.

The final result is that information becomes available from an increased number of sources, across multiple content formats accessible to everyone. This liberalization of content and media will generate a more competitive, collaborative and accessible media sector, a more even distribution of income and an increased visibility and participation of small, local and specialized media, freelance journalist and citizen reports.

Knight Drupal Initiative