08:57 ambermatz: D8 User Guide Q&A / Discussion is starting in a few minutes... https://www.drupal.org/project/user_guide
09:01 eojthebrave: Good morning.
09:01 ambermatz: Hi all - during the next half-hour or so the D8 User Guide project team is here to answer your questions or help you with D8 User Guide Issues
09:01 ambermatz: Good morning!
09:01 Druplicon: Is there any tea on this spaceship?
09:01 ambermatz: Yes!
09:02 jhodgdon: hah!
09:02 jhodgdon: Did everyone bring their towel?
09:02 ambermatz: Also on the agenda, barring any questions, we'll be discussing a convention for describing how to navigate to a thing in the user guide.
09:02 ambermatz: (Yes I have my towel.)
09:03 ambermatz: But first hello! Are there any other D8 User Guide folks here who want to say hi? 
09:03 michaellenahan: Hi! I'm new here!
09:03 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: welcome!
09:03 ambermatz: Hi michaellenahan!
09:03 michaellenahan: Would like ideally to help out with a proof reading / correcting task
09:04 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: we have a couple that are ready to go right now
09:04 dianalakatos: Hi everyone! 
09:04 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: if you look in the spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ov0FyJhKrJe7PYvohzV5UrrLyRaVCy2A0BjjEatqxKw/edit?usp=sharing
09:05 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: Scroll to the right and find the "Guidlines Edit" section of columns
09:05 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: there are some issues there that are waiting for people to take (at least I think so, let me check again)
09:05 ambermatz: dianalakatos: hi again! welcome!
09:05 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: for instance at line 28 there is one available
09:05 jhodgdon: https://www.drupal.org/node/2536626
09:06 Druplicon: https://www.drupal.org/node/2536626 => Guidelines edit for block-regions.txt [#2536626] => 0 comments, 1 IRC mention
09:06 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: so if you want to take that issue, the first thing to do would be to find the "Assigned" field in "Issue meta data", and assign it to yourself (and save the issue)
09:07 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: there are two more farther down in that column too
09:07 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: how does that sound? That should get you started I think...
09:07 michaellenahan: jhodgdon: yes i've grabbed that one. thanks!
09:07 jhodgdon: excellent, thanks!
09:07 michaellenahan: https://www.drupal.org/node/2536626
09:07 Druplicon: https://www.drupal.org/node/2536626 => Guidelines edit for block-regions.txt [#2536626] => 2 comments, 2 IRC mentions
09:08 ambermatz: eojthebrave, jhodgdon, and myself are here to answer questions -- so if anyone else has a question, please feel free to chime in.
09:09 jhodgdon: michaellenahan: there are all kinds of guidelines and instructions on https://userguide-drupal.redesign.devdrupal.org/guidelines/instructions.html that you might want to glance through
09:09 jhodgdon: (drupal/drupal is the uname/password)
09:10 ambermatz: jhodgdon, eojthebrave - should we start the discussion about the convention for describing how to navigate to a thing? 
09:10 jhodgdon: sure, unless there are any other questions from other people?
09:10 jhodgdon: or they can just interrupt, that is the great thing about IRC, you can have 10 conversations at once
09:10 jhodgdon: (or it could be considered a flaw of IRC)
09:10 ambermatz: indeed :)
09:10 dianalakatos: ambermatz: Actually, I was planning to figure it out on my own, but it's much safer to ask: I'll start working on this issue: https://www.drupal.org/node/2540526 Why does it say we should describe how to create 3 users? What is the difference between them? Why not create only one? 
09:10 Druplicon: https://www.drupal.org/node/2540526 => Write user-new-user.txt [#2540526] => 3 comments, 3 IRC mentions
09:11 eojthebrave: do we have an exising convention for this in the handbooks?
09:11 jhodgdon: dianalakatos: those users are needed later on I think
09:12 eojthebrave: https://www.drupal.org/style-guide/content#paths
09:12 jhodgdon: dianalakatos: The main task could desribe how to create one user account. Then in "Follow-on tasks" you could say "For the farmers market site, you'll also need these other accounts..."
09:12 dianalakatos: jhodgdon: I see, but as I can't actually create them, shouldn't I just have one description for how to create a new user and then add that this is how you create all three?
09:12 dianalakatos: jhodgdon: I see, thank you! 
09:12 jhodgdon: dianalakatos: great!
09:12 jhodgdon: eojthebrave: good question
09:13 eojthebrave: jhodgdon: we do https://www.drupal.org/style-guide/content#paths
09:13 jhodgdon: so the question is, we're trying to figure out how (in the user guide) we should talk about navigation to an admin page
09:14 ambermatz: I was looking under Content Conventions? 
09:14 jhodgdon: eojthebrave: ok so let's think about the Taxonomy admin page as an example
09:14 ambermatz: oh I'm late - i see the other link
09:14 jhodgdon: ambermatz: we don't have a guideline yet for the User Guide, eojthebrave found one for drupal.org docs
09:14 ambermatz: ah yes
09:14 jhodgdon: So this guideline would say we should say... let's see...
09:15 eojthebrave: spins up a simplytest.me site quick ...
09:15 jhodgdon: Navigate to the Taxonomy management page (Administration > Structure > Taxonomy, or http://example.com/admin/structure/taxonomy)
09:15 jhodgdon: or something like this?
09:16 ambermatz: FWIW, here is our (Drupalize.Me's) convention for our tutorials: when they need to navigate a menu: In the Administrative menu, go to Structure > Menus (admin/structure/menus).
09:16 jhodgdon: The problem I see with this suggestion is it doesn't actually say "Administration" anywhere in the menu bar... I guess really it says "Management" now for Drupal 8
09:16 eojthebrave: Yeah, though, I would maybe advocate for leaving out the example.com/ bit in the guide and just use the internal path maybe?
09:16 jhodgdon: ambermatz: I like that better
09:16 jhodgdon: eojthebrave: yeah
09:16 jhodgdon: ambermatz: but there is another problem for D8 that the top bar lets you choose Manage / Shortcuts / (your user account)
09:17 jhodgdon: so if you have Shortcuts showing, you will not see Structure at all
09:17 ambermatz: hm
09:17 jhodgdon: sigh.
09:17 eojthebrave: it defaults to expanded, so I think we should assume that management is already expanded
09:17 jhodgdon: I really hate this new D8 toolbar, it is lame, I filed usability issue about it but was overruled
09:17 jhodgdon: eojthebrave: well if you have once clicked Shortcuts then that stays open.
09:17 jhodgdon: that is the problem
09:17 jhodgdon: in d7 you could always see the admin menu but in d8 not
09:18 ambermatz: well admin menus are customizable, so perhaps if we can describe its location as it appears by default, plus included the path, that would be sufficient?
09:18 jhodgdon: Also if you click your user account then you cannot see that.
09:18 jhodgdon: I mean if you click your user account, you cannot see the Manage menu any more.
09:18 jhodgdon: So.
09:18 ambermatz: hm
09:18 eojthebrave: So maybe instead we say, "In the Manage menu to go Structure > Taxonomy > ... (admin/the/path)"
09:18 jhodgdon: Yes.
09:18 ambermatz: ok
09:19 jhodgdon: I dont' like calling it the Manage menu but that is what it is called.
09:19 eojthebrave: agree, on both accounts
09:19 jhodgdon: "In the main Manage administrative menu, go to Structure > Taxonomy"
09:19 jhodgdon: ?
09:19 jhodgdon: that is too wordy
09:19 ambermatz: I feel like there should be a catchy song for The Manage Menu that appears on public tv. but i digress.
09:19 jhodgdon: hah
09:19 jhodgdon: How about
09:20 jhodgdon: In the Manage administrative menu, navigate to Structure > Taxonomy (admin/structure/taxonomy)
09:20 ambermatz: seems accurate
09:20 jhodgdon: In the Manage administrative menu, navigate to Configuration > System > Site information (admin/config/system/site-information)
09:21 eojthebrave: +1
09:21 ambermatz: +1
09:21 jhodgdon: And then in the Preface and in the topic about the main navigation, we should explain this.
09:21 jhodgdon: and we need to write up Guidelines about it
09:21 eojthebrave: though, one other thing is that our current guidelines say that text in the UI should be italic ... does that apply here?
09:21 jhodgdon: and fix the existing topics
09:21 jhodgdon: yes
09:21 jhodgdon: italics for Configuration . System > Site information
09:22 eojthebrave: In the Manage administrative menu, navigate to _Configuration_ > _System_ > _Site information_ (admin/config/system/site-information)
09:22 agreazel: jhodgdon: I added comments to menu-home.txt issue and it’s apparent I need more coffee! Thank you for the assist
09:23 jhodgdon: agreazel: cool!
09:23 jhodgdon: eojthebrave: looks right
09:23 jhodgdon: ok
09:24 eojthebrave: awesome, that works for me
09:24 jhodgdon: I will update the guidelines, and will file Guidelines Edit issues to update existing topics, or maybe one to update all of the current ones...
09:24 jhodgdon: agreazel: will take a look shortly.
09:24 ambermatz: Related, D.Me also has a convention for how to instruct users to click on a link or button. Does Drupal.org have the same? Our convention is: For clicking on links and buttons, put the exact text for them in quotes: Click on the "Save settings" button.
09:24 eojthebrave: jhodgdon: I think one to update all the current ones is probably fine. There's not that many. Yet... Thanks!
09:24 jhodgdon: eojthebrave: ambermatz etc. are we agreed then that we should not have screen shots of the top navigation (except in the "Explaining the main admin structure" topic)?
09:25 agreazel: jhodgdon: thank you … hope to work on my other assigned issue later this evening
09:25 jhodgdon: ambermatz: we are using italics
09:25 eojthebrave: ambermatz: yeah, our d.o convention is put it in italics
09:25 ambermatz: ok
09:25 jhodgdon: our user guide convention too
09:25 ambermatz: sounds good
09:25 jhodgdon: agreazel: great!
09:25 jhodgdon: ok
09:26 ambermatz: jhodgdon: regarding the screen shots, that sounds fine to me. 
09:26 jhodgdon: ok
09:27 ambermatz: Any other questions or discussions?
09:27 jhodgdon: so I think I'll just make one issue where I'll update the guidelines and also make a start on the "Conventions" topic in the preface. Then I'll add instructions for someone else (or me) to update the other topics' navigation instructions.
09:27 eojthebrave: jhodgdon: yes agree for navigation screenshot, it's not necessary
09:28 jhodgdon: k great
09:28 ambermatz: sounds good jhodgdon
09:30 ambermatz: If you missed the discussion and are viewing the backscroll or the log, see the D8 User Guide Contributor Guide's Quick Start Guide here (auth is drupal/drupal): https://userguide-drupal.redesign.devdrupal.org/guidelines/instructions.html
09:31 ambermatz: Last call for questions for this Q&A session...but feel free to ping us in IRC, the mailing list, or the issue queue...
09:31 ambermatz: Thank you everyone for the questions and discussion! See you in the issue queue and mailing list!
09:32 dianalakatos: Thank you! 
09:32 michaellenahan: From me too ...
09:32 ambermatz: Thank you dianalakatos and michaellenahan for joining the meeting! Happy user guiding to you!
09:33 jhodgdon: https://www.drupal.org/node/2546908 here is the issue 
09:33 Druplicon: https://www.drupal.org/node/2546908 => Update navigation instructions [#2546908] => 0 comments, 1 IRC mention
09:33 jhodgdon: and agreazel for joining the meeting too
09:34 jhodgdon: Les_Lim: you just missed the meeting!
09:34 jhodgdon: thanks Les_Lim for the sprint last weekend!!!