Posted by bonobo on July 10, 2008 at 8:12pm
The logged chat is also available here.
The chat below is cut and pasted from the transcript.
<Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/12974 => KDI: Proposal Review => 1 IRC mention
<agentrickard> We are scheduled to discuss the open proposals for the Knight Drupal Initiative now
<yogadex> Hey, Ken. Dave Cohen here.
<agentrickard> Hey Dave
<billfitzgerald> hello, Ken
<agentrickard> I haven't even read yours yer
<nickvidal> hi ken :)
<agentrickard> billfitzgerald: nickvidal are item #1 on the agenda
<yogadex> No prob I just posted mine. Didn't expect it to be discussed today.
<agentrickard> yogadex: is item #2
<agentrickard> we can introduce you
<agentrickard> Is anyone else in the channel here to discuss the Knight Drupal Initiative?
* merlinofchaos tries to remember why he was looking for agentrickard a couple days ago.
* merlinofchaos is sure it wasn't important, mind, just some comment he had on something. I think.
<agentrickard> well, billfitzgerald nickvidal my opinion is that we should turn both projects over to Knight for review
<billfitzgerald> well, I'm not one to argue ;)
<nickvidal> me neither
<agentrickard> the problem, obviously, is that we're not getting much community feedback
<agentrickard> we could, also, defer on both projects, based on that and based on http://groups.drupal.org/node/11798
<Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/11798 => Proposal review guide => 3 IRC mentions
<agentrickard> with the argument that we simply do not have enough review yet
<billfitzgerald> I've been hesitant to talk the project up with a proposal in the queue because I did not want to appear self-promotional
<yogadex> does "review" mean a vote? Or comments?
<agentrickard> to me, both
<billfitzgerald> not that that would have made an enormous difference
<agentrickard> if you vote, you should comment to explain the vote
<billfitzgerald> at the risk of bean counting, though, my proposal is at the threshold laid out at http://groups.drupal.org/node/11798
<Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/11798 => Proposal review guide => 4 IRC mentions
<agentrickard> yogadex: which is notes in the Review Duide
<agentrickard> billfitzgerald: true
<agentrickard> yogadex: did you vote?>
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<gusaus> well... i just voted on this, fwiw - http://groups.drupal.org/node/11585
<Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/11585 => Local Publishing Platform and Regional Aggregation Hub => 3 IRC mentions
<billfitzgerald> I have yet to vote on any proposal, including mine
<agentrickard> I don;t think you should vote on your own, but you could review others. As long as you comment, for transparency
<yogadex> I also have not voted, but intend to.
<billfitzgerald> I'd definitely comment with any vote -- I've help off to avoid the appearance of any conflict of interest
<agentrickard> well, if 10 is the threshold, then billfitzgerald is over it now. Perhaps this meeting time is just to focus folks to read the proposals
* agentrickard always comments because he intends to apply
<agentrickard> the other big question is how to get more involvement on this stuff
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<yogadex> Agreed there should be more involvment. I will mention it a SF DUG on monday.
<billfitzgerald> re more involvement, I think we need to start blogging the hell out of this
<billfitzgerald> this is an amazing opportunity, and we need to publicize it as such
<nickvidal> i was talking with billfitzgerald about how we expected more proposals
<agentrickard> billfitzgerald, nickvidal if I were you I would not be shy about self-promition
<agentrickard> it's a little daunting to get started
<gusaus> one thing that might help is to identify people that are really good at writing or at least advising on writing these types of proposals
<agentrickard> at Palantir, we haven't even figured out what to propose yet
<billfitzgerald> yes -- I've been surprised at how few proposals we have seen
<billfitzgerald> and it is a little daunting
<agentrickard> and this is only stage one
<yogadex> Personally, I've known I would submit for months, but it took time to get around to it.
<agentrickard> after we "approve" you have to go to Knight for the actual money
<agentrickard> yogadex: me, too
<billfitzgerald> re the time to propose, absolutely
<billfitzgerald> it took us a long time to draft our proposal
<billfitzgerald> between the actual writing, and the internal review, it's a long process
<agentrickard> we've had three meetings already just trying to decide what to ptopose
<yogadex> Probably taking longer than the folks at Knight expect.
<nickvidal> i think the proposal form is pretty complete. the bad side is that few people actually take the time to complete it. but the good side is that the people who do are really serious about it.
<agentrickard> they didn't have too many expectations
<gusaus> any suggestions for those who might actually have some good ideas for projects but need a bit of help solidifying the proposal?
<gusaus> if that makes any sense :P
<billfitzgerald> wrt working with the folks at knight, how will these communications take place?
<Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/10462 => KDI Application Tips => 1 IRC mention
<agentrickard> billfitzgerald: we'll put the project in the issue queue for tracking, and then do a direct handoff via email.
<agentrickard> to Gary and Jose at KF
<billfitzgerald> ok -- thx
<agentrickard> Based on what we have to date, here is what I propose as the "process guardian" here
<billfitzgerald> once we have moved through the process, we'll be glad to give any help we can
<agentrickard> 1) approve billfitzgerald's proposal and send it to Knight
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<agentrickard> 2) promote the crap out of that
<agentrickard> 3) hold judgment on nickvidal's project until next month
<agentrickard> (and yogadex's too)
<agentrickard> 4) try to stir up more support for review
<billfitzgerald> once we have gotten over the initial hurdle, I'll start shouting from the rooftops
<yogadex> Sounds good (and fair) to me.
<billfitzgerald> and doing more advocacy
<agentrickard> nickvidal: and you?
<nickvidal> sounds good to me as well
<nickvidal> it will bootstrap the process
<agentrickard> I just want everyone to think they are getting treated fairly
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<yogadex> I'll blog about this, too.
<yogadex> Not this conversation, I mean about the KDI
<agentrickard> billfitzgerald: can you post the chat when we're done, as well?
<billfitzgerald> I'm thinking the full deal -- blog, twitter, and outreach via other communities -- I've had an offer to go on an online show aimed at educators to talk abouit this, but I have hesitated as I didn't want to get too excited over something nthat might not happen
<gusaus> billfitzgerald: great ideas - i think just sharing those promotional tips will help get others interested/involved also
<agentrickard> So, the next step is to move billfitzgerald's proposal over to http://drupal.org/project/knight
<agentrickard> And send notification to his team and to Gary's team
<billfitzgerald> I'll get in touch with my folks -- we've all been pretty excited about this.
<yogadex> It will be informative to see their feedback on any proposal.
<nickvidal> congratulations billfitzgerald! it was well deserved! :)
<yogadex> here here!
<agentrickard> should I copy over the entire proposal to the issue queue for tracking, or just link to it?
<billfitzgerald> nickvidal, yogadex -- thanks! -- next month, looking forward to seeing yours get moved over as well
* agentrickard brb
<nickvidal> imho, a link with a summary
<yogadex> depends on whether you think the g.d.o comments are relevant to the KF folks, I think.
<billfitzgerald> and I'll definitely mention your pending apps in my blog posts on this
<yogadex> and where the "final copy" of the proposal should live.
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<billfitzgerald> I think the comments add context, but there is something to be said for having the app stand on its own
<billfitzgerald> The thing is, the app can't be cut and pasted into the issue queue, as it's a cck form
<agentrickard> I think the comments are relevant -- and we could copy the raw HTML into the issue
<yogadex> I think there are so many comments on Bill's proposal, it might be better to give it a fresh start in the project, with a link to the original
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<billfitzgerald> I'm fine either way
<billfitzgerald> the comments show some additional info on the proposal, but it is a lot of text --
<agentrickard> understand that Knight will also ask for their paperwork to be filled out, outside of our process
<billfitzgerald> yes, absolutely
<yogadex> I lean towards: once accepted the project becomes the place where the proposal lives and new comments are added.
<agentrickard> the idea was that comments in the issue queue weer just about improving the proposal
<billfitzgerald> yogadex: I'm coming around to that view myself, as we discuss this
<agentrickard> I would agree, though I am tempted to PDF it
<agentrickard> amazon: did you review any of the live proposals?
<agentrickard> amazon: we also need to discuss promotion later
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<billfitzgerald> we have a copy of our proposal in wiki format -- I can clean it up for the issue queue
<amazon> I've reviewed them, but I don't feel competent making a recommendation right now.
<merlinofchaos> billfitzgerald: ping. May I PM?
<agentrickard> we moved, according to the guidelines we adopted earlier, to pass http://groups.drupal.org/node/11585 on the Knight for approval
<Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/11585 => Local Publishing Platform and Regional Aggregation Hub => 4 IRC mentions
<Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/281048 => Local Publishing Platform and Regional Aggregation Hub => Knight Drupal Initiative, Proposal, normal, active, 1 IRC mention
<billfitzgerald> merlinofchaos -- yes
<agentrickard> billfitzgerald: I need a contact email addy as well
<billfitzgerald> bill (at) funnymonkey (dot) com
<agentrickard> anyone else I should copy?
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<billfitzgerald> marc (at) funnymonkey (dot) com
<agentrickard> Marc's name?'
<billfitzgerald> Marc Poris -- he's my partner at FunnyMonkey
* gusaus wonders if a project like this would fall into the realm of something knight would support - http://groups.drupal.org/node/12994
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<agentrickard> gusaus: possibly
<gusaus> certainly think that type of integration would make it easier for people to teach dojo lessons and collaborate in general
<agentrickard> having a remote training tool embedded in Drupal is good for all kinds of community building, as well
<gusaus> heh - well.. this is good case and point for my previous question - the task of turning my little ramble into a proper proposal is quite daunting to say the least
<agentrickard> draft of welcome letter: http://ken.therickards.com/2008/07/10/draft/
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<agentrickard> any thoughts?
<agentrickard> I plan to send this to the four of you, blog it, and post to g.d.o.
<agentrickard> gusaus: we tried to give you a blueprint