Knight Drupal Initiative monthly proposal review -- 6 November 2008

agentrickard's picture
Start: 
2008-11-06 15:00 - 15:30 US/Eastern
Organizers: 
Event type: 
Online meeting (eg. IRC meeting)

We will have our final review meeting for KDI 2008 on Thursday, 6 November 2008 at 15:00 EST (20:00 UTC).

Note time adjustment for the end of U.S. daylight savings time.

The meeting will be held in IRC #drupal-dojo on irc.freenode.net. (See http://drupal.org/irc for information about using IRC.) We will meet for 1:30 with the following agenda:

Agenda

Program Review

After this meeting, we are suspending the KDI until the 2009 program can be finalized and announced.

See http://groups.drupal.org/node/16348 for details.

Proposals accepted during this meeting will be eligible for funding in 2009. A Q&A will be held during the review meeting.

Proposals to Review

Under Consideration

Comments

KDI Meeting transcript

gusaus's picture

Thanks agentrickard for leading this effort. Think the pilot was a success!

[20:07:22] ok, so we should start be reviewing where we are
[20:07:23] EclipseGc: will tell jef
[20:07:28] ericg: hehe
[20:07:33] did everyone read http://groups.drupal.org/node/16348 ?
[20:07:34] http://groups.drupal.org/node/16348 => Knight Drupal Initiative closing for 2008, program to reopen during DrupalCON DC => 2 IRC mentions
[20:07:34] chatter - totally forgot about meeting
[20:07:36] * mlsamuelson_afk has quit ()
[20:07:52] yep :)
[20:07:53] * obicke has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[20:08:02] agentrickard: do you think I could get you to explain to me how node access works when you can't use hook_access (i.e. cck nodes)
[20:08:27] EclipseGc: not today ;p -- see the Szeged session notes and video
[20:08:37] agentrickard: that's pretty good considering it seemed like noone was paying attention to the program at first :)
[20:08:55] agentrickard: oooh... ok I'll go look for that
[20:09:00] good that we closed because we spent too much money?
[20:09:33] ericg: I've got a system that lets you define which nodes are parents and children to what other nodes (multiples of each, and allows a content type to be a child of itself)
[20:09:42] what it comes down to is that Knight doesn't have the resources to keep this going year-round
[20:09:43] no - but that's an indicator of it's success
[20:09:44] ericg: so we can do cases inside of cases :-)
[20:10:06] EclipseGc: we are actaully having a scheduled meeting now
[20:10:21] agentrickard: oh, I'll shut up :-)
[20:10:22] http://groups.drupal.org/node/16347
[20:10:28] http://groups.drupal.org/node/16347 => Knight Drupal Initiative monthly proposal review -- 6 November 2008 => 1 IRC mention
[20:10:50] I do think that there will be a KDI 2009. And hopefully 2010, and so on
[20:11:03] EclipseGc: awesome! agentrickard, EclipseGc is working with us on the 8trees portion of the KDI proposal, this is going to be hot
[20:11:07] the basic idea is to run a sprint of proposals and reviews between the two DrupalCons.
[20:11:16] ericg: sweet
[20:11:32] so KDI will be more like News Challenge (or SoC)
[20:11:50] ericg: i'm excited about that :)
[20:11:55] From my notes, there was only one proposal under serious consideration this month.
[20:12:13] * JohnAlbin has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:12:20] As the others don't have a ton of support
[20:12:40] So, are there any procedure questions, or shall we just get moving?
[20:12:54] * JohnAlbin has left #drupal-dojo ()
[20:13:38] agentrickard: count me in for any planning of what next years KDI might look like
[20:13:45] I understand why this move is a good idea
[20:14:03] ericg: we'll need something on the schedule for DrupalCON DC -- preferably Saturday
[20:14:09] http://groups.drupal.org/node/15448 is the proposal up for review
[20:14:11] http://groups.drupal.org/node/15448 => Formal usability testing of Drupal in 2009 => 6 IRC mentions
[20:14:18] i'm interested in helping too
[20:14:48] catch: the understanding I have with Jose at Knight is that we can 'approve' this now, but it may not get reviewed by Knight until Spring
[20:15:13] * Bojhan has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:15:14] catch__: the understanding I have with Jose at Knight is that we can 'approve' this now, but it may not get reviewed by Knight until Spring
[20:15:18] agentrickard: OK.
[20:15:23] anyone here good with RewriteRules? I am trying to 301 a few pages, and need someone to put an eye on my syntax
[20:15:41] do we want to press ahead with that application or wait until next year?
[20:16:13] agentrickard: what are the pros and cons of waiting vs. going ahead now?
[20:16:15] agentrickard: I'm not really sure what formal review by Knight entails, so that's a hard question to answer.
[20:16:43] their formal review requires you to fill out an application. nickvidal can explain it to you'
[20:16:55] nickvidal: how's yours coming along?
[20:17:22] i think it's best to approve catch's proposal now, so he will have time to fill out the application for 2009
[20:17:25] * JohnAlbin_ has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:17:33] it still being reviewed
[20:17:35] I would think so, too
[20:17:45] agentrickard: that sounds sensible to me.
[20:17:48] Jose indicated to me that they are backlogged with grant applications
[20:17:53] right
[20:18:08] so my recommendation is to put catch with jose as soon as possible
[20:18:08] * JohnAlbin_ has left #drupal-dojo ()
[20:18:20] just understand that there will be a delay. I convinved Jose to let us hold this final meeting, even if they don't take any action this year.
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[20:19:01] * JohnAlbin_ has left #drupal-dojo ()
[20:19:04] Well, then I formally nominate Formal Usability Testing as a proposal
[20:19:17] agentrickard: So how realistic is it, to do Formal usability testing in late feburary?
[20:19:27] catch, i don't have the knight's application here with me, but you need to fill out something similar to this:
[20:19:29] http://drupal.org/node/292587
[20:19:30] http://drupal.org/node/292587 => Information-Sharing using FeedAPI and Buddylist => Knight Drupal Initiative, Proposal, normal, active, 1 IRC mention
[20:19:32] not, at leat no with Knight money
[20:20:15] i don't think you should plan anything for february neither
[20:20:26] Bojhan: sorry. "No, not in February on Knight money"
[20:20:54] it's really about queueing up the request. If it comes in, great, if not, try another way.
[20:21:29] possibly we need to do some kdi fundraisers :)
[20:22:01] agentrickard: Well, I am a bit dissapointed that we wern't informed of this a few months ago, or do they spend as it comes in?
[20:22:04] * wolfderby has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:22:45] Bojhan: we never had a fixed budget for 2008. It was all experimental.
[20:23:10] agentrickard: I see, well to bad - I guess for the usability test late in 2009 we might have chanse.
[20:23:34] That sounds about right. Or one in Fall 2009 and one in Srping 2010.
[20:23:52] moving to an annual grant cycle may be beneficial for core development grants
[20:24:00] that seems more prudent to me
[20:24:22] agentrickard: Well we need plan, 1 year in advance, I think - which might be something you should notice to other people who do iniatives based on time.
[20:24:23] Bojhan: and for 2009, I am pushing Knight to announce a set amount of total funding.
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[20:24:55] agentrickard: oke,
[20:25:12] we didn't have that this year.
[20:25:32] agentrickard: Oke, to bad :(
[20:25:40] ken, has it gone overbudget?
[20:25:40] ...and possibly some other orgs in addition to Knight and Google will become involved w/ these sorts of programs
[20:25:54] Yes.
[20:26:06] someone (eric) needs to poke Case Foundation
[20:26:09] ;-p
[20:26:17] * Senpai has quit ()
[20:26:25] So notes on the other proposals. None of them have enough support. We can just leave them be.
[20:26:37] catch__: are you the lead on the usability test?
[20:27:15] nickvidal: yes, they are over their original budget estimate.
[20:27:37] ok, thanks
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[20:28:16] * gdemet has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:28:19] I should also note that the Grant Making proposal was rejected as being too large ($300,000+ USD)
[20:28:20] catch__: pretty much, although all four of us are happy to be contacted.
[20:28:40] can you send me email addresses and names, so I can make the introduction?
[20:28:58] agentrickard [at] gmail [dot] com
[20:29:01] agentrickard: of course.
[20:29:57] are there any other general questions?
[20:30:00] catch__, is it possible to get some funding from universities?
[20:30:16] nickvidal: We already have a lab donated, we can't get the flights sponsored
[20:30:30] ok, this is good
[20:30:59] perhaps contacting other universities would be interesting
[20:31:16] there are lots of research grants
[20:31:24] yes
[20:31:31] nickvidal: Not of this scale,
[20:31:54] agentrickard: general questions from us, or about the proposal from others?
[20:32:09] about KDI; your proposal is pretty clear, I think
[20:32:10] there's really no reason that funds couldn't be pooled from corporate sponsors and individuals also
[20:32:18] agentrickard: Re: catch's proposal, my vote is based on seeing Dries note saying "This would be awesome":http://groups.drupal.org/node/15448#comment-52418 I think this good let this move directly to Knight and see how this works with their agenda.
[20:32:20] http://groups.drupal.org/node/15448 => Formal usability testing of Drupal in 2009 => 7 IRC mentions
[20:32:31] yes
[20:32:39] catch__ My only note from a personal perspective is I hope the user stories around this testing are well focused on core drupal tools, and not focused on noobs that really should be using ah wordpress. I think Knight is investing in Drupal because it is a killer framework, and if they see this foundation work helps everyone, including making the tool easier to use for the developers that will be building installer profiles for the
[20:32:41] both this and the Documentation Sprint are really interesteing
[20:32:43] done
[20:33:27] * j_matthew_s has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:33:28] ericg: last time we focused on CCK etc with somewhat experienced admins/developers (not used Drupal though) - that's likely the target for future rounds too.
[20:33:57] ericg: We will have a fixed screening process, I dont think we should have to worry to much about the setup.
[20:34:22] agentrickard: hopefully we can sort something out for the lab in spring - then this does us for the fall and spring again next year. So I think that can work out.
[20:34:25] * agentrickard hopes the plan gets funded
[20:34:32] I hope
[20:34:48] It depends on how and when they do their reviews.
[20:35:00] It may be that reviews are not done until the Fall.
[20:35:06] after DrupalCON Europe
[20:35:28] agentrickard: How come it takes so long? For a technology focused iniative, that is way to slow
[20:35:28] though my push is for opening during DrupalCON DC and announcing winners at DrupalCON Europe
[20:35:56] Bojhan: it's a new program in a large bureacracy and was low priority
[20:36:17] agentrickard: I think it's most likely that we'll have more questions once we've been in touch with Jose.
[20:36:18] agentrickard: ahh
[20:36:27] understand theat they review thousands of apps for Knight News Challenge
[20:36:49] I bet they get 5-6 thousand this year
[20:37:06] the idea was that KDI would 'fast-track' some Drupal work, but that simply hasn't happened
[20:37:17] but that doesn't mean we should not have tried.
[20:37:26] catch__: and Bojhan: I really like what has been done before, so again, I think this should get to Knight as fast as possible and hope for funding as soon as possible.
[20:37:41] agentrickard, have you received any news from other pre-approved proposals? have they passed along?
[20:37:44] ericg: Agreed.
[20:37:45] In 2009, if we know there are $X of grants available in November, say, then we can plan
[20:37:52] nickvidal: I have not
[20:38:13] ericg: how are your proposls going?
[20:39:40] agentrickard: same as everyone's slowed up cause Knight is hot right now
[20:39:53] figures
[20:40:05] the idea of having a formal schedule for 2009 should help with this problem
[20:40:23] so, I have one last piece of business if no one else has one
[20:40:33] agentrickard: i liked your idea about asking for a pre-defined budget. perhaps the knight could agree about giving the Drupal community the autonomy to select and fund projects.
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[20:41:12] I will post a copy of my tequila bill if I hear good news
[20:41:21] heh
[20:41:40] e.g. In 2009, the Knight approves $300.000 to Drupal. And Drupal has the power to distribute those among the best projects.
[20:41:58] agentrickard: I hope knight also considers reverse bounties, since I know they are seeing a lot of need for key tools form the formal News Challenge
[20:42:49] all interesting ideas. I think it would take the Drupal Association or a 501(c)-3 (US nonprofit) for that.
[20:43:04] exactly
[20:43:06] then again, we could just pitch one proposal: Give us half a million dollars to spend as we see fit.
[20:43:12] that's a trick - believe me
[20:43:23] yes
[20:43:43] there are other places/systems that could be set up for these funding models
[20:43:47] then you have all sorts of management and overhead issues. So a proposal like that would need to filter up through the Association.
[20:44:24] association is not really an option
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[20:44:52] this on the other hand, seems very interesting - http://groups.drupal.org/node/14587
[20:44:55] http://groups.drupal.org/node/14587 => Collective funding, design and development of Drupal projects => 7 IRC mentions
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[20:46:54] Folks, I have to step out, agentrickard: I look forward to talking more about KDI future plans catch__: and Bojhan: I hope you guys rock this. EclipseGc: I will talk to Jeff about the new case tracker plans!
[20:46:55] cheers
[20:47:07] cheers
[20:47:08] bye
[20:47:16] ericg: sweet ciao
[20:47:33] cheers all
[20:48:15] so, we will probably convene around the start of 2009 to discuss the future
[20:48:31] if anyone wants to take a leadership role, let me know -- or just strat doing things
[20:48:40] agentrickard: thanks.
[20:49:01] catch__: when I get your emails, I;ll send a note to the team and to Jose.
[20:49:40] agentrickard: we can use the dojo to get the word out about KDI - possibly document projects that have already commenced?
[20:49:49] * ericg has quit ()
[20:49:53] maybe
[20:49:55] i decline any leadership role, but i'm willing to help in any other way.
[20:49:56] ;)
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[20:51:37] is this still the best place to track ongoing projects? http://drupal.org/project/issues/234658
[20:51:41] agentrickard: thanks Ken, sent.
[20:52:12] gusaus: yes
[20:53:21] ok - i'll try to arrange some sessions w/ the people on ongoing projects
[20:54:55] might also be helpful to have a KDI session to recap the program and set up agendas for next year
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[20:59:02] * robomalo|away is now known as robomalo
[21:03:40] my time is up
[21:03:46] bye bye everyone!
[21:03:47] agentrickard: could KDI be sort of a conduit for funds - i.e. if people/companies donated to Knight, would $$ be allocated directly into the KDI program?
[21:03:52] thanks ken
[21:04:32] gusaus: i think there are some legal restrictions that would prevent earmarks like that
[21:04:53] * nickvidal has left #drupal-dojo ()
[21:05:49] * josh_k has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
[21:07:17] right - there are other NPOs that act as fiscal sponsors - i'm not sure how all this works
[21:07:42] but i'll still ask the dumb question :P
[21:08:30] yea, I don't think that would work
[21:08:37] * shannonlucas tasers gusaus
[21:08:56] ouch
[21:09:16] the way to make that work (in the U.S.) is to create a 501-(c)-3 to handle the funds. It could then take donations from anyone and turn them over to anyone. As I said earlier, that is an Association-level discussion.
[21:09:39] because doing so means you need full-time staff
[21:09:47] budgets, and so on
[21:10:37] right - i don't the association is ready to touch that - as you said, that would take a lot of time
[21:11:32] i know the chicago group hooked up with a fiscal sponsor for their drupalcamp
[21:12:05] right
[21:12:09] okj, back to work for me
[21:12:14] * agentrickard has left #drupal-dojo ()
[21:14:01] all very interesting - these programs obviously have a lot of value - but if it's not a well established org like KDI or Google their are a lot of politics
[21:16:04] * j_matthew_s has quit ()
[21:16:06] yeah
[21:17:46] * sDaniel is now known as sDaniel[aw]
[21:18:00] funny that the KDI discussion has happened in this room - a little funding would certainly help drupal learning programs
[21:19:32] project based learning in which we could build a lot of valuable tools for drupal
[21:19:52] * NikLP has quit ("pub quiz!")
[21:20:40] shannonlucas: have you looked at this? http://www.fossfactory.org/
[21:21:42] hmm. nope.
[21:21:45] interesting
[21:22:28] i'm a bit unclear about how the $$ flows, but it looks like a potential way to collect/distribute funds without even the need of a formal org
[21:25:29]

Gus Austin

Gus Austin

Knight Drupal Initiative

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