Knight Drupal Initiative monthly proposal review -- 6 November 2008

agentrickard's picture
2008-11-06 15:00 - 15:30 US/Eastern
Event type: 
Online meeting (eg. IRC meeting)

We will have our final review meeting for KDI 2008 on Thursday, 6 November 2008 at 15:00 EST (20:00 UTC).

Note time adjustment for the end of U.S. daylight savings time.

The meeting will be held in IRC #drupal-dojo on (See for information about using IRC.) We will meet for 1:30 with the following agenda:


Program Review

After this meeting, we are suspending the KDI until the 2009 program can be finalized and announced.

See for details.

Proposals accepted during this meeting will be eligible for funding in 2009. A Q&A will be held during the review meeting.

Proposals to Review

Under Consideration


KDI Meeting transcript

gusaus's picture

Thanks agentrickard for leading this effort. Think the pilot was a success!

[20:07:22] ok, so we should start be reviewing where we are
[20:07:23] EclipseGc: will tell jef
[20:07:28] ericg: hehe
[20:07:33] did everyone read ?
[20:07:34] => Knight Drupal Initiative closing for 2008, program to reopen during DrupalCON DC => 2 IRC mentions
[20:07:34] chatter - totally forgot about meeting
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[20:07:52] yep :)
[20:07:53] * obicke has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
[20:08:02] agentrickard: do you think I could get you to explain to me how node access works when you can't use hook_access (i.e. cck nodes)
[20:08:27] EclipseGc: not today ;p -- see the Szeged session notes and video
[20:08:37] agentrickard: that's pretty good considering it seemed like noone was paying attention to the program at first :)
[20:08:55] agentrickard: oooh... ok I'll go look for that
[20:09:00] good that we closed because we spent too much money?
[20:09:33] ericg: I've got a system that lets you define which nodes are parents and children to what other nodes (multiples of each, and allows a content type to be a child of itself)
[20:09:42] what it comes down to is that Knight doesn't have the resources to keep this going year-round
[20:09:43] no - but that's an indicator of it's success
[20:09:44] ericg: so we can do cases inside of cases :-)
[20:10:06] EclipseGc: we are actaully having a scheduled meeting now
[20:10:21] agentrickard: oh, I'll shut up :-)
[20:10:28] => Knight Drupal Initiative monthly proposal review -- 6 November 2008 => 1 IRC mention
[20:10:50] I do think that there will be a KDI 2009. And hopefully 2010, and so on
[20:11:03] EclipseGc: awesome! agentrickard, EclipseGc is working with us on the 8trees portion of the KDI proposal, this is going to be hot
[20:11:07] the basic idea is to run a sprint of proposals and reviews between the two DrupalCons.
[20:11:16] ericg: sweet
[20:11:32] so KDI will be more like News Challenge (or SoC)
[20:11:50] ericg: i'm excited about that :)
[20:11:55] From my notes, there was only one proposal under serious consideration this month.
[20:12:13] * JohnAlbin has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:12:20] As the others don't have a ton of support
[20:12:40] So, are there any procedure questions, or shall we just get moving?
[20:12:54] * JohnAlbin has left #drupal-dojo ()
[20:13:38] agentrickard: count me in for any planning of what next years KDI might look like
[20:13:45] I understand why this move is a good idea
[20:14:03] ericg: we'll need something on the schedule for DrupalCON DC -- preferably Saturday
[20:14:09] is the proposal up for review
[20:14:11] => Formal usability testing of Drupal in 2009 => 6 IRC mentions
[20:14:18] i'm interested in helping too
[20:14:48] catch: the understanding I have with Jose at Knight is that we can 'approve' this now, but it may not get reviewed by Knight until Spring
[20:15:13] * Bojhan has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:15:14] catch__: the understanding I have with Jose at Knight is that we can 'approve' this now, but it may not get reviewed by Knight until Spring
[20:15:18] agentrickard: OK.
[20:15:23] anyone here good with RewriteRules? I am trying to 301 a few pages, and need someone to put an eye on my syntax
[20:15:41] do we want to press ahead with that application or wait until next year?
[20:16:13] agentrickard: what are the pros and cons of waiting vs. going ahead now?
[20:16:15] agentrickard: I'm not really sure what formal review by Knight entails, so that's a hard question to answer.
[20:16:43] their formal review requires you to fill out an application. nickvidal can explain it to you'
[20:16:55] nickvidal: how's yours coming along?
[20:17:22] i think it's best to approve catch's proposal now, so he will have time to fill out the application for 2009
[20:17:25] * JohnAlbin_ has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:17:33] it still being reviewed
[20:17:35] I would think so, too
[20:17:45] agentrickard: that sounds sensible to me.
[20:17:48] Jose indicated to me that they are backlogged with grant applications
[20:17:53] right
[20:18:08] so my recommendation is to put catch with jose as soon as possible
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[20:18:20] just understand that there will be a delay. I convinved Jose to let us hold this final meeting, even if they don't take any action this year.
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[20:19:04] Well, then I formally nominate Formal Usability Testing as a proposal
[20:19:17] agentrickard: So how realistic is it, to do Formal usability testing in late feburary?
[20:19:27] catch, i don't have the knight's application here with me, but you need to fill out something similar to this:
[20:19:30] => Information-Sharing using FeedAPI and Buddylist => Knight Drupal Initiative, Proposal, normal, active, 1 IRC mention
[20:19:32] not, at leat no with Knight money
[20:20:15] i don't think you should plan anything for february neither
[20:20:26] Bojhan: sorry. "No, not in February on Knight money"
[20:20:54] it's really about queueing up the request. If it comes in, great, if not, try another way.
[20:21:29] possibly we need to do some kdi fundraisers :)
[20:22:01] agentrickard: Well, I am a bit dissapointed that we wern't informed of this a few months ago, or do they spend as it comes in?
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[20:22:45] Bojhan: we never had a fixed budget for 2008. It was all experimental.
[20:23:10] agentrickard: I see, well to bad - I guess for the usability test late in 2009 we might have chanse.
[20:23:34] That sounds about right. Or one in Fall 2009 and one in Srping 2010.
[20:23:52] moving to an annual grant cycle may be beneficial for core development grants
[20:24:00] that seems more prudent to me
[20:24:22] agentrickard: Well we need plan, 1 year in advance, I think - which might be something you should notice to other people who do iniatives based on time.
[20:24:23] Bojhan: and for 2009, I am pushing Knight to announce a set amount of total funding.
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[20:24:55] agentrickard: oke,
[20:25:12] we didn't have that this year.
[20:25:32] agentrickard: Oke, to bad :(
[20:25:40] ken, has it gone overbudget?
[20:25:40] ...and possibly some other orgs in addition to Knight and Google will become involved w/ these sorts of programs
[20:25:54] Yes.
[20:26:06] someone (eric) needs to poke Case Foundation
[20:26:09] ;-p
[20:26:17] * Senpai has quit ()
[20:26:25] So notes on the other proposals. None of them have enough support. We can just leave them be.
[20:26:37] catch__: are you the lead on the usability test?
[20:27:15] nickvidal: yes, they are over their original budget estimate.
[20:27:37] ok, thanks
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[20:28:16] * gdemet has joined #drupal-dojo
[20:28:19] I should also note that the Grant Making proposal was rejected as being too large ($300,000+ USD)
[20:28:20] catch__: pretty much, although all four of us are happy to be contacted.
[20:28:40] can you send me email addresses and names, so I can make the introduction?
[20:28:58] agentrickard [at] gmail [dot] com
[20:29:01] agentrickard: of course.
[20:29:57] are there any other general questions?
[20:30:00] catch__, is it possible to get some funding from universities?
[20:30:16] nickvidal: We already have a lab donated, we can't get the flights sponsored
[20:30:30] ok, this is good
[20:30:59] perhaps contacting other universities would be interesting
[20:31:16] there are lots of research grants
[20:31:24] yes
[20:31:31] nickvidal: Not of this scale,
[20:31:54] agentrickard: general questions from us, or about the proposal from others?
[20:32:09] about KDI; your proposal is pretty clear, I think
[20:32:10] there's really no reason that funds couldn't be pooled from corporate sponsors and individuals also
[20:32:18] agentrickard: Re: catch's proposal, my vote is based on seeing Dries note saying "This would be awesome": I think this good let this move directly to Knight and see how this works with their agenda.
[20:32:20] => Formal usability testing of Drupal in 2009 => 7 IRC mentions
[20:32:31] yes
[20:32:39] catch__ My only note from a personal perspective is I hope the user stories around this testing are well focused on core drupal tools, and not focused on noobs that really should be using ah wordpress. I think Knight is investing in Drupal because it is a killer framework, and if they see this foundation work helps everyone, including making the tool easier to use for the developers that will be building installer profiles for the
[20:32:41] both this and the Documentation Sprint are really interesteing
[20:32:43] done
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[20:33:28] ericg: last time we focused on CCK etc with somewhat experienced admins/developers (not used Drupal though) - that's likely the target for future rounds too.
[20:33:57] ericg: We will have a fixed screening process, I dont think we should have to worry to much about the setup.
[20:34:22] agentrickard: hopefully we can sort something out for the lab in spring - then this does us for the fall and spring again next year. So I think that can work out.
[20:34:25] * agentrickard hopes the plan gets funded
[20:34:32] I hope
[20:34:48] It depends on how and when they do their reviews.
[20:35:00] It may be that reviews are not done until the Fall.
[20:35:06] after DrupalCON Europe
[20:35:28] agentrickard: How come it takes so long? For a technology focused iniative, that is way to slow
[20:35:28] though my push is for opening during DrupalCON DC and announcing winners at DrupalCON Europe
[20:35:56] Bojhan: it's a new program in a large bureacracy and was low priority
[20:36:17] agentrickard: I think it's most likely that we'll have more questions once we've been in touch with Jose.
[20:36:18] agentrickard: ahh
[20:36:27] understand theat they review thousands of apps for Knight News Challenge
[20:36:49] I bet they get 5-6 thousand this year
[20:37:06] the idea was that KDI would 'fast-track' some Drupal work, but that simply hasn't happened
[20:37:17] but that doesn't mean we should not have tried.
[20:37:26] catch__: and Bojhan: I really like what has been done before, so again, I think this should get to Knight as fast as possible and hope for funding as soon as possible.
[20:37:41] agentrickard, have you received any news from other pre-approved proposals? have they passed along?
[20:37:44] ericg: Agreed.
[20:37:45] In 2009, if we know there are $X of grants available in November, say, then we can plan
[20:37:52] nickvidal: I have not
[20:38:13] ericg: how are your proposls going?
[20:39:40] agentrickard: same as everyone's slowed up cause Knight is hot right now
[20:39:53] figures
[20:40:05] the idea of having a formal schedule for 2009 should help with this problem
[20:40:23] so, I have one last piece of business if no one else has one
[20:40:33] agentrickard: i liked your idea about asking for a pre-defined budget. perhaps the knight could agree about giving the Drupal community the autonomy to select and fund projects.
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[20:41:12] I will post a copy of my tequila bill if I hear good news
[20:41:21] heh
[20:41:40] e.g. In 2009, the Knight approves $300.000 to Drupal. And Drupal has the power to distribute those among the best projects.
[20:41:58] agentrickard: I hope knight also considers reverse bounties, since I know they are seeing a lot of need for key tools form the formal News Challenge
[20:42:49] all interesting ideas. I think it would take the Drupal Association or a 501(c)-3 (US nonprofit) for that.
[20:43:04] exactly
[20:43:06] then again, we could just pitch one proposal: Give us half a million dollars to spend as we see fit.
[20:43:12] that's a trick - believe me
[20:43:23] yes
[20:43:43] there are other places/systems that could be set up for these funding models
[20:43:47] then you have all sorts of management and overhead issues. So a proposal like that would need to filter up through the Association.
[20:44:24] association is not really an option
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[20:44:52] this on the other hand, seems very interesting -
[20:44:55] => Collective funding, design and development of Drupal projects => 7 IRC mentions
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[20:46:54] Folks, I have to step out, agentrickard: I look forward to talking more about KDI future plans catch__: and Bojhan: I hope you guys rock this. EclipseGc: I will talk to Jeff about the new case tracker plans!
[20:46:55] cheers
[20:47:07] cheers
[20:47:08] bye
[20:47:16] ericg: sweet ciao
[20:47:33] cheers all
[20:48:15] so, we will probably convene around the start of 2009 to discuss the future
[20:48:31] if anyone wants to take a leadership role, let me know -- or just strat doing things
[20:48:40] agentrickard: thanks.
[20:49:01] catch__: when I get your emails, I;ll send a note to the team and to Jose.
[20:49:40] agentrickard: we can use the dojo to get the word out about KDI - possibly document projects that have already commenced?
[20:49:49] * ericg has quit ()
[20:49:53] maybe
[20:49:55] i decline any leadership role, but i'm willing to help in any other way.
[20:49:56] ;)
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[20:51:37] is this still the best place to track ongoing projects?
[20:51:41] agentrickard: thanks Ken, sent.
[20:52:12] gusaus: yes
[20:53:21] ok - i'll try to arrange some sessions w/ the people on ongoing projects
[20:54:55] might also be helpful to have a KDI session to recap the program and set up agendas for next year
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[20:59:02] * robomalo|away is now known as robomalo
[21:03:40] my time is up
[21:03:46] bye bye everyone!
[21:03:47] agentrickard: could KDI be sort of a conduit for funds - i.e. if people/companies donated to Knight, would $$ be allocated directly into the KDI program?
[21:03:52] thanks ken
[21:04:32] gusaus: i think there are some legal restrictions that would prevent earmarks like that
[21:04:53] * nickvidal has left #drupal-dojo ()
[21:05:49] * josh_k has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
[21:07:17] right - there are other NPOs that act as fiscal sponsors - i'm not sure how all this works
[21:07:42] but i'll still ask the dumb question :P
[21:08:30] yea, I don't think that would work
[21:08:37] * shannonlucas tasers gusaus
[21:08:56] ouch
[21:09:16] the way to make that work (in the U.S.) is to create a 501-(c)-3 to handle the funds. It could then take donations from anyone and turn them over to anyone. As I said earlier, that is an Association-level discussion.
[21:09:39] because doing so means you need full-time staff
[21:09:47] budgets, and so on
[21:10:37] right - i don't the association is ready to touch that - as you said, that would take a lot of time
[21:11:32] i know the chicago group hooked up with a fiscal sponsor for their drupalcamp
[21:12:05] right
[21:12:09] okj, back to work for me
[21:12:14] * agentrickard has left #drupal-dojo ()
[21:14:01] all very interesting - these programs obviously have a lot of value - but if it's not a well established org like KDI or Google their are a lot of politics
[21:16:04] * j_matthew_s has quit ()
[21:16:06] yeah
[21:17:46] * sDaniel is now known as sDaniel[aw]
[21:18:00] funny that the KDI discussion has happened in this room - a little funding would certainly help drupal learning programs
[21:19:32] project based learning in which we could build a lot of valuable tools for drupal
[21:19:52] * NikLP has quit ("pub quiz!")
[21:20:40] shannonlucas: have you looked at this?
[21:21:42] hmm. nope.
[21:21:45] interesting
[21:22:28] i'm a bit unclear about how the $$ flows, but it looks like a potential way to collect/distribute funds without even the need of a formal org

Gus Austin

Gus Austin

Knight Drupal Initiative

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