There are several requests for new projects (modules, themes, profile etc) for drupal. Among those many requests get rejected and few get through. But we drupalistas does not get a change to look at those ideas until it gets through the initial review process.
According to me a person could be good at visualizing a problem but may not be good at coding and thus might some good ideas gets rejected due to the poor coding.
But if a space is out there in the drupal universe where everybody gets a chance to put his or her idea and entire community could participate on it and we could reach out more people and we might land lot of new ideas even which can do miracles like views has done for the drupal world.
So please share your thoughts out here about drupal incubation process.
Comments
brainstorm.drupal.org?
About the time of Drupalcon Paris I was mulling over the idea of a site like brainstorm.ubuntu.com for Drupal, which ironically is actually built on Drupal! As great as the tools on d.o are for actual development they aren't the best place for thrashing out ideas, issue queues would be much tidier if there was a separate space for developers and (crucially) others to talk about ideas for pushing things forward.
I never managed to accelerate my initial idea for a brainstorm.drupal.org but what you are talking about is very similar and would definitely serve a purpose in the space, maybe now is a good time to think about the need for it again?
I would agree. A lot of what
I would agree. A lot of what I see are projects driven by programmers solving their particular itches, while nonprogrammers are sometimes reduced to begging to get ideas heard. A place reserved for brainstorming might bring out some very good ideas, and also might showcase areas of need that exist that programers may not be aware of.
I don't get it
Ok, so you put up ideas that programmers hadn't thought of for all to see... And then what? Are you expecting the programmers to go, "Oh, there's an idea I hadn't thought of, I'll go code it!"?
Code gets written around here because people who have a need either code it for themselves or pay someone to do it. Sometimes stuff gets written for the good of the community, like when a maintainer implements a feature request that s/he doesn't need, but I'd be very surprised if anyone picks up a whole project that they don't need just because it was put up someplace as an idea that "someone" should code.
Michelle
My blog, mostly about Drupal: Shell Multimedia
Michelle (hello Michelle!--
Michelle (hello Michelle!-- glad to be on the same continent for a while) -- makes a very good point.
It still has to get done, and getting it done, ultimately, takes doers (coders).
So here's my first counter-suggestion: 1) a place for "I'm willing to put x$ down to get this done" and 2) "I'm willing to find others / raise x$ for this and finally 3) for coders, a "this will really cost x$ to get done!" box.
~kwt
BountyBuzz
I have a similar project that I started incubating about 6 months ago. I have a site up with a general outline of what I think would be an interesting matrix.
http://bountybuzz.com
There are most certainly holes in the project strategy and many points that would need to be clarified. The info on the site serves as more of an idea catalyst.
I would love to continue the conversation here about what an ideal system would look like that would allow developers to get paid for supporting the community. IMHO that is the crux of all discussions around bug fixing and what are the boundaries of community goodwill vs becoming a part of someone else's profit chain (i.e. I need this bug fixed for a paying site, but I can not afford to have someone fix it! Can anyone work for me for free?).
I think an automated but human reviewed system like BountyBuzz could be interesting but it would require some significant structuring ahead of launch. I have created a form on the site if anyone is interested in dropping us a line and letting us know how you would like to be involved -----> http://bountybuzz.com/help-launch-bounty-buzz
We are also open to constructive critical discussion about this as we know we do not have all the answers, but figure we have to start somewhere right? So lets discuss!
--
Jamie Meredith
Technical Account Manager
Acquia, Inc.
I think you are too negative
I think you are too negative. Your point is a good one but it is not always the driver.
For example, I have been in discussions where A came up with a project idea and B who could code thought that he could use it and coded it.
In anotehr case an idea person hooked up with a coder to do a proprietary module that they chafged for.
I grant that the more typical case is what you describe, but not always.
My Question is? Does
My Question is? Does brainstorm.ubuntu.com work? If no then perhaps this would be a waste of effort or needs to be done better. Otherwise shooting down this idea as a reservoir of silly, dreamy, non-programmer tasks isn't the right way to address this. The community isn't all about programming, and I'm speaking as a programmer.
All projects start as a vision, Dries and the the other core guys do it all the time. Infact their dreaming and brainstorming Drupal 8 stuff right now.
nonprogrammers are sometimes
Let me represent the other side.
As a programmer-- and one with precious little time (I was on plane, train or bus over 30 hours last week, on three continents, and rarely with internet!) -- ok that's a major travel week, but you get the point--
yeah, you're a beggar if you a) want something and b) can't provide something like market rate in return. And 9 times out of 10, I've already had your idea, and if not but for time, would have addressed it and and 100 ideas better than it.
So what's the point here smile ?
(See my earlier reply).
~kwt
Your's and Michelle's points
Your's and Michelle's points are well taken. A lot of that begging happens in the issues queues for particular modules, where already busy programmers have to deal with them, and the prospect of getting paid for them are not always good.
Issue queues are good for specific, well-defined and mostly minor adjustments to specific projects. But good luck if you try to spell out something larger. Most of these requests get ignored, and with good reason.
That's where I think what is being proposed here is something that may help that problem. Having a place to brainstorm larger ideas can bring together more people seeking new or better ways to do things, without it clogging up someone's issue queue. And perhaps there's even ideas brought up that you haven't thought about before. :-)
These ideas can be hashed out in this space before someone wastes time writing code for something that doesn't work for the end user. I've seen this happen too many times when someone requests a feature, code is written, and then we figure out that it doesn't work or isn't needed because the business requirements or something else changed.
This kind of brainstorming place might also bring together the financial resources to accomplish these projects, and nonprogrammers looking for solutions can pool resources to help meet their collective needs. Perhaps there can be some kind of crowdsourced funding feature built in to record pledges and/or actual monetary contributions.
Another feature would be a way to invite others to take part. For instance, if there is a discussion that touches on particular modules, you can easily invite the maintainers of those modules to take part. And they would have the option to decline to participate in a particular discussion, something that could be recorded so they are not hassled again.
It sounds like a good idea to push larger ideas forward. But it's up to the rest of the community to determine if this is the direction we should take.
agreed
Two thumbs up on this and I'd be willing to devote a little time / resources to this.
Nice points. While a
Nice points.
While a do-ocracy is a fine idea :), not everyone who is great at coding is great at planning or thinking of great ideas; and not all us old (note: I didn't say "great!") coders can find time for module development, while, at least, we have experience that might help (etc).
So a repeat of: Two thumbs up on this and I'd be willing to devote some time / resources to this.
~kwt
Also
" which can do miracles like views has done for the drupal world"
Views wasn't a miracle. It was a whole lot of hard work by merlinofchaos which was paid for by his employers. (Well, at least a good chunk of it. I can't imagine the sheer amount of time he spends on it happens without even a little off the clock work)
Anyway, the point is that it didn't just spontaneously show up because someone who can't code said "Here's a great idea that someone should write". It was a matchup between need and ability.
Michelle
My blog, mostly about Drupal: Shell Multimedia
sorry but I consider Views for drupal a miracle in drupalvarse
What i meant by "..which can do miracles like views has done for the drupal world.." is "VIEWS" module helped drupal a lot for gaining a big popularity like any thing.
There are so many sponsored modules in drupalvarse but I personally believe views has done a miracle for Drupal.
~~~~~~~~~~: http://gdzine.net | http://twitter.com/gdzinenet |info@gdzine.net :~~~~~~~~~~
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Yes, Views has done a lot for Drupal. My point is that Views did not come about because someone posted "Hey, I think this is a good idea for Drupal". It exists because of the hard work mostly of one person who made it happen. This whole thread just sounds like wishful thinking to me. But I guess I'll stop raining on your parade.
Michelle
My blog, mostly about Drupal: Shell Multimedia
not all ideas are for "whole new projects"
Michelle et al, your points are well taken, but lots of good (as well as not so helpful or ultimately unused) ideas have been contributed in the issue queues by folks who are not able to personally implement them. These are usually not for entirely new modules but could be for things like better UI and UX solutions and feedback. And of course some of these discussions take place in Drupal Groups. When Mark and Leiza were soliciting ideas for the drupal.org redesign, this was, in fact, discussed. There was definitely talk about how better to facilitate these kinds of discussions and how perhaps to pull them out of the issue queues so that we have clearly separated repositories for dealing with bugs, help, feature requests, and perhaps higher-level thinking (like the whole sprawling discussion of whether Drupal should be a platform or a service in a box or both...). As it is now some of these discussions are spread all over the place and it is very hard to follow them well.
Christopher Pelham
Director
CRS (Center for Remembering & Sharing)
http://www.crsny.org
CRS (Center for Remembering & Sharing) is an arts & healing center located just south of Union Square in Manhattan.
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I guess it depends on what sorts of ideas are meant by this. I got the impression from the original post that this would be a place where someone would post an idea they had for a module that they can neither code themselves nor are able to pay to get coded. Which seemed rather pointless to me. If you're talking about more "grand vision of Drupal" stuff, that's a totally different animal.
Michelle
My blog, mostly about Drupal: Shell Multimedia
I think the conversation is
I think the conversation is talking at cross purposes, an issue queue is not a place to throw ideas around, or somewhere that benefits from non-technical people wading in with "help" but no context of what has gone before or that the developer simply doesn't have time to pander to the whim of a stranger. LIkewise somewhere to brainstorm/incubate ideas isn't meant to isolate users or create a division between developers and non-developers, it's a place away from the rock face that things can be discussed, ideas banded about etc. without getting in the way of the real work that goes on. I also don't think we're talking about a place for bounties and paid work to be discussed, again a completely separate problem domain.
We are talking about engaging people who may only be end users of Drupal, again like brainstorm.ubuntu.com this needs to be done bearing in mind people won't search for similar ideas, so make it easy for ideas to be grouped and collated together, letting the best bits coagulate together. Ideas may not make it off the drawing board but at least they're not languishing in an issue queue which is an entirely inappropriate place for them to be.
+1 from me and ...
not only what @ghazlewood mentioned but more to it. Incubator will definitely be monitored by the community and by others (might be non-developers).
The very project (any damn thing within drupalvarse and for drupal) si get a chance in the incubator and only and only community will decide and dictate by a democratic means to promote to a drupal project just like apache projects become mainstream from it's incubator.
Thus all not so important and not relevant projects get drowned by a normal process of "survival of the fittest".
~~~~~~~~~~: http://gdzine.net | http://twitter.com/gdzinenet |info@gdzine.net :~~~~~~~~~~
Please quit spamming
This thread has little if any relevance to the Bioinformatics group, yet I am getting an e-mail notification for every post.
Can people please stop posting to this thread? Create a new discussion somewhere more appropriate.
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The trouble is that the OP put this into a ridiculous number of groups:
Consulting and Business · New York City · Austin · Projects Needing Financing · Drupal for Good · Drupal Dojo · Healthcare · Alumni · Conference Organizing Distribution · Contributed Module Ideas · Drupalchix · Charts · Pune India · New Jersey · Okanagan of British Columbia · Local User Group Organizers · TNT Themes · BioInformatics · Business Intelligence · Europe · Drupal Against Poverty · Skinr · Open Atrium · East of England · drush · OpenPublish · Google Summer of Code 2010 · Drupal.org Git Migration Team · Drupal Products · Drupal for Microfinance · Using Open Data in Education · Small Business · Offshore development · Drupal for CBT or WBT · Micro Shops · Drupal Incubator
To the OP: Pick one, get rid of the rest. This has nothing to do with most of them. If you can't edit the post, reply with the group you want it in and I will fix it.
Michelle
My blog, mostly about Drupal: Shell Multimedia
pruned
I've pruned all the groups that seemed unrelated. I agree posting this to obviously off-topic groups (this has nothing to do with local regions) is borderline spam. This is a warning, if you do it again then it seems to me like grounds for a temporary ban from groups.drupal.org.
certifiedtorock.com/u/36762/ | Druplicon debit card
oops! extremely sorry
Sorry somehow got selected all the groups... Sorry for inconvenience done ... ?;i have corrected the groups and hope your will not be notified by the discussions....here
~~~~~~~~~~: http://gdzine.net | http://twitter.com/gdzinenet |info@gdzine.net :~~~~~~~~~~
Well...
I'm in broad agreement with Michelle when she wrote, "Anyway, the point is that it didn't just spontaneously show up because someone who can't code said 'Here's a great idea that someone should write.' It was a matchup between need and ability." Having said that, I think there IS some value to having people (both people who can't code and people who can) posting ideas along the lines of, "Here's a great idea that someone should write." If a good idea circulates, sometimes it gets picked up by someone who realizes that it's a good way to scratch their own itch. As long as the person who posts an idea doesn't presume that someone else is going to just magically code it for them, they shouldn't feel shy about making suggestions.
Here's an idea that I've had for awhile but don't know how to code: I'd like a module with a submit button that lets you upload yourself to a server and then download yourself at some other remote location. If someone would just build that, it could save a fortune on auto and fuel costs, and also solve the problem of global warming.
Sheldon Rampton
Senior web developer, New York State Senate
http://www.nysenate.gov
http://drupal.org/user/13085
g.d.o. seems to be incubating this idea just fine
This sounds very similar to what the Contributed Module Ideas group does. It's currently almost entirely used by implementors to suggest ideas they might work on, and I think that's a good thing, but I don't see anything precluding non-implementors from using it too. And even if that group proves inappropriate, another g.d.o. group could handle this just fine, at least until there's an established audience large enough to warrant the implementation costs.
i would be very willing to
i would be very willing to devote time and contribute code to this if it became a real project...
its something ive been looking for. as a F.O.S.S. guy in general, i believe, that the community (and therefore the projects) are truly built by users not us coders. i could explain that in depth more...but im not going too.