Dimdim integration
public
gusaus - Tue, 2008-07-08 00:23
Here's the lowdown on a project some of us have been kicking around as a potential 'code sprint' and/or community coding effort.
Dimdim (http://www.dimdim.com/) is a free web conferencing service where you can share your desktop, show slides, collaborate, chat, talk and broadcast via webcam with absolutely no download required for attendees.
Features
http://www.dimdim.com/products/dimdim_features.html
Dimdim Open Source
http://www.dimdim.com/opensource/dimdim_open_source_community_edition.ht...
- Dimdim Open Source has all the features of the Enterprise version and can be downloaded and installed on your own servers immediately.
- This open source version is provided via a GNU Public License (GPL) and is primarily supported by a vibrant community.
- Documentation includes guides on how to integrate with other platforms such as Moodle and SugarCRM - http://www.dimdim.com/opensource/dimdim_documentation.html
Potential uses
- An improved training platform for the Drupal Dojo, companies, and individuals
- Remote sessions for DrupalCamps, DrupalCons, and local meetups
- A compliment to project/task based Drupal Groups
- Allow virtual companies to better communicate and collaborate
- much much more....
So....
Does this sort of integration seem valuable/interesting? Any thoughts on what this would entail? How much time it would take? Should we create a 'task force' and have at it?
oh yes yes yes
Sorry - couldn't help myself. I've been looking at this for a long time. The bad part is however, I know next to nothing about PHP. If I can be useful in some other way, just let me know. Might be getting ahead of myself here but my dream would be to have Drupal, Openfire, Asterisk and Dimdim all mixed together to create a communication platform where users can go from non-realtime messaging to instant messaging, to telephone and eventually to video through Dimdim. If I can raise any hard cash over the next year, I'm up for funding some of this development. That would be a true open source alternative to Sharepoint/OCS.
Legal review
It's unclear from their web site which version of the GPL they're using.
http://www.dimdim.com/opensource/dimdim_faq.html#faq2 - This appears to have been written pre-GPLv3, and says v2 only.
http://www.dimdim.com/opensource/dimdim_gnu.html - This is GPL version 3.
http://www.dimdim.com/opensource/dimdim_license.html - This says GPL version 3.
http://www.dimdim.com/opensource/dimdim_floss.html - This says GPL version 2. It is also dated 2006.
The code seems to be assembled based on a half-dozen other projects, which use various combinations of GPLv2, GPLv3, and Apache License.
So first off, they need to clarify which license they're using (GPLv2 only, GPLv3 only, or GPLv2-or-later). It is irresponsible of them to link to pages that say both, especially when that does have an impact on other projects that want to bridge to them.
That said, the question is how we'd integrate Drupal with it.
1) If we'd integrate by writing a Drupal module that talks to DimDim via HTTP or SOAP or XML-RPC or something like that, then the module would have to be released under GPLv2+ like Drupal, and could be hosted on Drupal.org.
2) If we'd integrate by writing a Drupal module that wraps some DimDim-provided library that gets stuck into the module (the way TinyMCE and such work), then IF the DimDim code is under GPLv2 or GPLv2+ then the module is kosher and could be hosted on Drupal.org.
3) If we'd integrate by writing a Drupal module that wraps some DimDim-provided library that gets stuck into the module (the way TinyMCE and such work, where you download the 3rd party library separately), then IF the DimDim code is under GPLv3+ only then a module could be written but it would have to be GPLv3. That is OK (since Drupal's GPLv2+ is forward compatible with GPLv3), but it could not be hosted on Drupal.org and a site that uses that module would have to be distributed in its entirety under GPLv3 (if it is distributed at all). In practice the only difference between this case and #2 is whether or not the module can be hosted on drupal.org, since we require that everything in CVS be GPLv2+, no exceptions.
3a) It looks like they have a long list of FOSS exceptions, so if they are GPLv3+ then we can certainly check with them to see if they would consider a GPLv2 module to be acceptable. If so, I would be comfortable with that and with hosting the module on Drupal.org.
I hope they sort out their GPL version, because it sounds like a cool project to link with. :-)
--Larry Garfield
Drupal Association Director of Legal Affairs for the Drupal Project (aka Copyright Guy)
By the way, cvs.drupal.org
By the way, cvs.drupal.org terms of use have specified "GNU/GPL," I'm hoping this won't be changed to require compatibility with specific versions of GPL?
GPLv2+
All code checked into Drupal's CVS repository must be under GPLv2+, the same as Drupal.
Please see: http://drupal.org/licensing/faq#q4
OK I had been looking at
OK I had been looking at http://cvs.drupal.org/viewvc.py/drupal/contributions/TERMS.txt?view=mark... That is not good news for code that may have to be GPL3+ because it integrates with AGPL3+ or GPL3+ code.
Always had License compatibility issue
Different licenses simply aren't compatible. simply saying something is GNU/GPL doesn't actually tell you much. and a lot has changed in technology & court rulings since the first license was developed.
here's a really good chart that gives quick overview of compatibility flow between licenses:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/quick-guide-gplv3.html#new-compatible-licens...
Dimdim is GPL 3
Hello Larry,
Dimdim is released under GPL 3. We have corrected the differences in the webpages.
Dimdim also has a URL based API through which one can start/join/schedule meetings from any other web application. Maybe using this API would fit in the first way of integrating that you have mentioned.
Dimdim 3.5 API doc is available at: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/dimdim/Dimdim_Opensource_Meeting_Server...
Soon Dimdim 4.0 integration guide will be available. Dimdim 4.0 has new features like recording and archiving of sessions, Screencasting from Mac, Multiple presenters and many other enhancements.
Dimdim 3.5 was recently released as an appliance on a vmware image and is available at: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/dimdim/Dimdim_Software_Appliance_v3.5_1...
Regards,
~sundar
sundar@dimdim.com
that's awesome!
Thank you for posting Sundar. I'm sure folks are going to check Dimdim out and more so once a module surfaces and Macs cam play.
Glad to see Dimdim posted here to let us know more. :)
Hello, all, Also might want
Hello, all,
Also might want to look at openmeetings --
http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/
I've seen a demo of this and it looks pretty slick -- there is also a Moodle integration, although I haven't seen that in action.
Cheers,
Bill
FunnyMonkey
Tools for Teachers
If we're thinking about this
If we're thinking about this for the Drupal community, I've struggled to get DimDim working for clients on Mac and Linux.
Screencasting from Mac now available in Dimdim
Hello Josiah,
Attendees have full functionality from Mac and Linux and now with Dimdim 4.0 presenters can share their desktops from Mac too. So Dimdim has now all the features on Mac which are available to Windows users.
The Dimdim team has been working on the latest version of Dimdim 4.0 for the past few months. Dimdim Version 4.0 boasts of a large number of user requested enhancements:
The Dimdim 4.0 pack is fresh from our labs and hosted on our QA staging environment where it has been certified by QA. To get started, you can create a new user using this link http://stage.dimdim.com/portal/Dimdim_Signup.html
You can then sign in using the link http://stage.dimdim.com/portal/
Please let me know via email if you have any issues or comments. Please also copy support@dimdim.com
Please note:
1) The 4.0 Screenshare Plugin (on the 4.0 staging servers) is not compatible with the 3.9 Console (on the production servers). In case you need to share your screen on the existing production servers please uninstall the 4.0 plugin and you’ll be prompted to reinstall the 3.9 plugin the next time you use the production systems.
2) The list of known issues is available at http://support.dimdim.com/secure/IssueNavigator.jspa?reset=true&mode=hid...
Regards,
~sundar
Issues with DimDim
I sent out an email to Dimdim requesting clarity on their license (and referenced this thread). Assuming the Mac/Linux issue is this (http://help.dimdim.com/activekb/questions/48/), it looks like a fix is coming soon.
I did a quick test of OpenMeetings and it indeed looks pretty slick. Very interested to hear from those a bit more development savvy regarding what might be the best system and specifically what the integration would/should entail.
Gus Austin
PepperAlley Productions
Dimdim Mac support
Hello Gus,
Dimdim now has full Mac support as part of the 4.0 release. Please refer http://groups.drupal.org/node/12994#comment-43795 to test out Dimdim 4.0.
~sundar
Soap ?
According to http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/wiki/DirectLoginSoapGeneralFlow.
Mac Issues
To be fixed in v4.0 which is out "RSN!".
http://dimdim.typepad.com/dimdim_blog/2008/06/calling-mac-use.html
Re: Openmeetings vs Dimdim - I'm not "development savvy" but that might be why I would rather see a dimdim integration. The user experience is visually much more intuitive and aesthetically pleasing with Dimdim. If you're just using the site for small numbers that can be taught then either would do. If you're aiming for hundreds of potential presenters, doing sales-oriented presentations, you need something that is going to look professional. The featureset of Dimdim should soon be comparable with Openmeetings. That's my take on it.
Given that both are works in progress
I'd also consider the age of the app -- Dimdim's first release was in Sept, 2006. Their initial offering made a split between their open source version and their "enterprise" version -- for example, the number of users was capped on the open source version, and the open source version used more resources than the enterprise version. From a business standpoint, this is understandable/defensible, but from the perspective of an open source developer this feels like a pay to play model. They have since removed the user cap from the open source version, but if I was looking to start an integration I would look very closely at the differences b/w the commercial edition and the open source version. I haven't tracked Dimdim's development trajectory since early 2007, though, so I'm not very current on their current offerings.
From looking at the downloads page of the OpenMeetings project (at http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/downloads/list ) the first download is April of 2007. Based on age, it appears that OpenMeetings is adding features at a pretty rapid rate, which for me would be a positive thing.
Given that any solid integration will be a significant undertaking, I'd recommend researching the platform to be integrated in pretty thorough detail. This research should include details such as the malleability of the UI, and the relative openness of the community.
And with that said, I haven't researched either platform in a detailed way. I have, however, seen a recent version of OpenMeetings, and was impressed by what I saw.
For whatever that's worth ;)
Cheers,
Bill
FunnyMonkey
Tools for Teachers
Access to Dimdim 4.0
Hi Bill,
Dimdim 4.0 (to be released in about 3 weeks form now) has a slew of new features including:
1) Mac Desktop Sharing: Mac users can now share their screens
2) Multiple Presenters: ability to promote an attendee to a presenter
3) Ability to host Public and Private Meetings
4) Streamlined UI with enhanced usability
5) Ability to Record Meetings (This is still under development testing)
The Dimdim 4.0 pack is fresh from our labs and hosted on our QA staging environment where it has been certified by QA. To get started, you can create a new user using this link http://stage.dimdim.com/portal/Dimdim_Signup.html
You can then sign in using the link http://stage.dimdim.com/portal/
Please let me know via email if you have any issues or comments. Please also copy support@dimdim.com
regards,
~sundar
sundar@dimdim.com
Dimdim Mac support
Hello Adrian,
Dimdim now has full Mac support as part of the 4.0 release. Please refer http://groups.drupal.org/node/12994#comment-43795 to test out Dimdim 4.0. Dimdim 4.0 has new features like
1) Mac Desktop Sharing: Mac users can now share their screens
2) Multiple Presenters: ability to promote an attendee to a presenter
3) Ability to host Public and Private Meetings
4) Streamlined UI with enhanced usability
5) Ability to Record Meetings (This is still under development testing)
~sundar
Dimdim 4.0 has been released
Dimdim 4.0 has been released - http://dimdim.com/
Think it's a great time to see how we can integrate this product!
Gus Austin
PepperAlley Productions