CKeditor - FCkeditor on Steroids
have you guys checked out CKeditor? http://ckeditor.com/ Demo here http://ckeditor.com/ckeditor/3.0b2/_samples/index.html It is as far as I know a complete Rewrite of FCKeditor.
So it has the beloved function set, but has improved one thing that troubled most of us: it is BLAZING FAST!
Plus some cool features like inline editing (a text changes into an editable area on doubleclick and stuff).
Check it out! (no, i am no CKeditor developer and salesman)
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1,000 things
1,000 things, yes.
But still not even resizable. I really wonder how people actually work with this editor...
Daniel F. Kudwien
unleashed mind
You should reconsider your position
Daniel, being you a TinyMCE fanboy or not, it's your problem. But, considering that you aim to be the project leader for the WYSIWYG module, which is supposed to be the "editor neutral" solution for wysiwyg, you should avoid attacking other project efforts, being also a bit "neutral".
It's quite a delusion for us, at the FCKeditor/CKEditor team, to hear stuff like that from Drupal's (wanna be) core developers. We're really working hard at our side, not only to provide a wonderful editor, but also to bring better support on Drupal. We have always been at Drupals side, providing one of the most complete wysiwyg projects for it (the FCKeditor project). You have followed that, so if you really don't (want to) have anything positive to say, at least avoid the negative stuff. It's unfair.
We'll continue working hard to move our steps into Drupal, and be sure we'll bring the best wysiwyg solution ever. Hopefully there are also others in this group that instead stimulate us to achieve that.
(PS.: if your most needed wysiwyg feature is the resize thing, you should be happy... we'll have it with CKEditor)
Biased
Obviously you are not aware of my rants on other editor libraries. Which is perfectly understandable, because you probably do not track discussions about TinyMCE, NicEdit, or YUI the same way you are tracking discussions about (F)CKeditor. I'm speaking out loud both the obvious (most often usability) issues as well as the non-obvious when it comes to technical implementation issues. That is very important for users and developers, because people need to know the difference between all these editors. I don't believe "the one" or "the best" editor library does exist, because all of them suck in one way or the other and lead to major headaches on our side. In reality, and given Wysiwyg API's abstraction, all editor libraries are just duplicate efforts. I foresee that the time will come when developers of major editor libraries are joining forces to (finally) build a library that's rock-solid and Just Works(tm).
It's quite a delusion for me to hear that (F)CKeditor's (wanna be) core developers can't handle and admit the weaknesses of their own library. I did not even compare to other libraries, so I do not really understand why you turn a fact into a personal attack. We worked very hard to implement proper support for Drupal plugins in Wysiwyg API's integration for FCKeditor, where we could have used some help from FCKeditor developers, but managed to do it on our own due to tremendous efforts by TwoD. In short: None of the Wysiwyg API developers are biased towards a certain editor library in any way and we continue to see each library like any other.
That said, I'm happy to see progress on CKeditor and I already wonder when we will add support for it in Wysiwyg API (which could have a great and positive impact on its development if it would happen during CKeditor's development already, since Wysiwyg API is most probably the most challenging editor integration project on the market).
Daniel F. Kudwien
unleashed mind
I use FCK Editor
I have been a Drupal end user and fanatic for 5 years or so, and I use FCKeditor.
I currently use the FCKEditor module, and not the WYSIWYG module as I KNOW that FCKEditor is the only one I want to use, simply because it has been simple to use for many years.
Years ago I tried TinyMCE but it was difficult to configure. However I have never tried it through the WYSIWYG module.
The FCKEditor module is simple and easy to use for 'simple minded' end users like me. You download the module and the editor, lump them together and upload to the site.
As I understand it WYSIWYG module requires the editors to be stored elsewhere in the file system, doubling the complexity of the upload.
(Yes I know it not that hard, but one upload is easier than creating new directories and introducing greater possibility of file permission problems as many people on shared hosts have.)
I have seen the new CKEditor demo, and I would expect that if the other editors do not pick up their act CKEditor will become the ONLY editor used by 'normal' end users due to its speed!
The loading speed on the new editor is amazing. It loads faster than Gmail! My estimate is that it takes TinyMCE editor 30-50 times longer to load than this new editor.
I am in no way associated with (F)CKEditor or WYSIWYG or TinyMCE, or any other module. I just don't like it when someone attacks a module which I have grown to love and recommend to other part time web designers. Daniel F. Kudwien, please be a bit more considerate for those who have obviously put in so much time and effort to create what I consider to be the best editor out there. I hope you change your attitude towards other editors, especially if you are involved with the WYSIWYG module.
o.k.
You are right about this historically grown weakness of the poor old chap, one should expect they solve this.
Some gory implementation details about the editor here http://docs.fckeditor.net/FCKeditor_3.x/Design_and_Architecture/Dialog_S...
I guess the resizability mentioned there just means the height of the edit field.
But I will just now post a feature request for horizontal resizability....
https://dev.fckeditor.net/ticket/3343
Now we see what they have to say.
Er - Daniel - I believed you without trying myself, and I just see it IS resizable horizontally, at least if I resize my entire browser window.
So do you mean something else?
Life is a process
It's "vertical" resizing
The editor takes it's width and height from the configurations. So one can freely decide its size. The width can be set in percent values, and the best option here is "100%". In this way the editor takes the entire horizontal space for it, automatically resizing itself when the windows gets resized.
Daniel is instead talking about the "vertical resize" feature, just like the one we have here with Drupal's textareas. It makes it possible to enlarge the editor height by simply dragging the resize handle placed at the bottom of it. This is planned and we'll have it in CKEditor.
Appreciated
Thanks FredCK for joining in. I like project-to-project communication, happens much too less...
I was not aware Drupal was on your landscape so clearly and feel honored. Actually you are popular here, so I believe this goes not unheard.
Is the speed really that fast? (loading i mean, which I believe is most important) because I could hardly believe this could perform as well on a Drupal site.
Life is a process
Thanks!
Actually, wwalc, the maintainer of the FCKeditor module, is one of the core FCKeditor developers. One of his tasks is maintaining our project in line with Drupal needs. We are always looking for making this integration better and better.
Back to the topic... yes, it's that fast! The loading performance of the editor is one of our top priorities, and we have achieved really good results with CKEditor. We're also focused on other interesting features, like first class accessibility support and a brand new and powerful API and plugin system.
We're in an advanced beta stage. The RC should come public soon. So, stay in touch... we'll have much to talk about in the next few months.
Comments are really welcome. Thanks for your post!
Fred
FCKEditor is my default
FCKEditor is my default choice of all the available options for drupal (and i've tried a lot of options...).
Seeing this new version is very exciting and I'm watching this space very closely :)
Module
I was a total TinyMCE fanboy (as most WordPress users are) until I couldn't find a Drupal module that actually worked and provided enough customization for permissions and the editor. That's when I grabbed the FCK module and fell in love.
My one question is whether the current FCK module will support CK editor or if a new module will be created? Also (sorry, more than one question), is there a roadmap for development somewhere? I'm pondering whether or not I should upgrade to the new 2.x module branch or just wait for CKEditor.
I also love the new name. I can finally say the name of the editor without feeling like there's a missing vowel in there.
CKeditor integration...
...is on the way and basically already working: http://drupal.org/node/462146
This is one of the cases where Wysiwyg module can demonstrate and harness its power.
btw: An announcement for the roadmap for Wysiwyg 3.x will be published shortly in this group.
Daniel F. Kudwien
unleashed mind
The CKEditor Module
I'm happy to hear that you're enjoying the hard work we've put on the FCKeditor module. Your feedback is appreciated.
As you may have been following at our web site, we're working to close CKEditor 3.0. We're on Beta 2, and the RC is to be released this week. You can follow its status here:
http://dev.fckeditor.net/milestone/CKEditor%203.0
As soon as we have the RC, we can start thinking about the Drupal integration with it. Actually, Wiktor, our Drupal expert and maintainer of the FCKeditor module, will be also very busy on implementing our new CKEditor web sites now (with Drupal of course ;)), but we should start defining the road to take for it.
One of the options we have is integrating it with the WYSIWYG module. Probably this will be our first move. We just need to check if the WYSIWYG module provides the rich set of features we have with the FCKeditor module. We should integrate with it anyway, but based on this analysis and on users feedback we may also consider coding the standalone CKEditor module. After all, you can find standalone modules for several editors and someone could find it strange that the CKEditor one is missing.
We're definitely looking for suggestions here. Let us know!
Fred
I haven't used WYSIWYG API
I haven't used WYSIWYG API since the dev builds of 2.x. In my opinion, the FCK module provided many more features and it just worked. I haven't installed WYSIWYG API for a little while, but I sincerely hope that a module specific to CK editor is made. The idea behind WYSIWYG API is idealistic and noble, but at the end of the day I'd rather have just one editor that works really well. That's the route WordPress took, and look at where they are. They have one of the best editing interfaces available.
"I'd rather have just one editor that works really well."
All users want that, regardless of the editor they want to use. We had many editor integration modules in the past that duplicated the effort to integrate editors properly in Drupal. As more and more Drupal modules become more complex and use more AJAX/AHAH logic, integrating an(y) editor properly has become quite a challenge.
All those separate (duplicate) modules are the reason why Drupal still lacked better WYSIWYG support in general. The goal of Wysiwyg module is more though. It not only allows you, as a user, to use the editor of your choice. It also allows all the 4,000+ contributed Drupal modules to integrate with the editor - regardless of which editor you are using.
We started with the new 3.x development branch for Wysiwyg module recently. One of the most important new features will be that each editor will be completely configurable, including all advanced editor options.
Daniel F. Kudwien
unleashed mind
started with the new 3.x development
That's what I like to hear. I'll give 3.x a try one weekend.
ETA? :)
So uh any eta now that CKeditor has been released...you know, day of simultaneous release or anything hehe ..had to ask ;)
plans ?
So will ckeditor have its own drupal module like fckeditor or will it be only available with the wysiwyg module (or both )?
Ckeditor will be supported by
Ckeditor will be supported by the wysiwyg module; seperate modules for the different editors are not encouraged.
A bit confused
So I checked out the FCKeditor site, says they renamed it to CKeditor:
I don't suppose we'll have to change all of our existing use instances of the FCKeditor & module. And I guess I have the same/similar question, and more...
Will the FCKeditor module be upgraded to use the CKeditor? If so, if we upgrade the module will we have to upgrade the editor as well?
Or, will there be a new CKeditor module. leaving the FCKeditor module to carry on and, I guess, some day, fade off into the sunset?
I haven't found the answer yet on the FCKeditor/CKeditor site, but I wonder how long FCKeditor will be supported by those folks?
If I understand correctly, CKeditor is already available to be used with WYSIWYG?
One of the biggest issues I have with editors is the ability to upload and manage images and files. I love that about FCKeditor - its very easy to set up. I am wondering if CKeditor is going to keep that - i suppose that is a question for a different website...
What I don't like about the FCKeditor is the tedium in setting up the editor to match the look of the output between View & Edit. I'd love to see an easy admin to customize the editor options and look and feel. (again, probably a discussion to be had at the ckeditor site...)
I'm a bit apprehensive about this since I am very familiar with FCKeditor. Just some thoughts... I guess I'm ranting outloud...
CKEditor is Resizable in one click
I just checked out the CKEditor online demo, and it's got a wonderful corner-drag feature for resizing. It also has a "maximize" button that allows it to take over the entire browser window. I have been playing with it for a couple hours and I am very impressed with it. http://ckeditor.com/demo
By "fast", do you all mean
By "fast", do you all mean that it loads fast? Because that's my biggest issue w/ FCKEditor.
I've been using FCKeditor on all my projects for the past several years, as it had the best behavioral characteristics that I could find the last time I did a comprehensive comparison. But the load time has been incredibly frustrating. I toy w/ switching to WYMEditor (which I like a lot) or Nicedit, and either would be fine for me, but for different reasons they wouldn't be acceptable for our clients.
Plus, every time we have a pre-launch conference my creative director cracks up at the name. She insists on referring to it as "F*ck-editor". I'll be happy to put that gag behind me ;-).
EDIT:
Well, it seems to load fast. But I've seen FCKEditor and TinyMCE implementations that seemed brisk, where I can't get them to load quickly on my projects at all. So we shall see. But it looks really nice.