Posted by moremonkeys on March 22, 2007 at 5:44pm
I know a bunch of bands that need things like fan club support tools or want to post their music online and sell it per download (a la itunes) and there are lots of bits and pieces of Drupal out there you can already cobble together to do all this. I am quite familiar with drupal, but only just started looking at using it for my band Warring States. Any recommendations on good places to send people with an overview of recommended drupal modules for bands?

Comments
quick one..
I think a shortlist of modules suited for bands/artists would be a great resource. Drupal is ideal for managing a band/artist site and developing an online fan community.
As a discussion starter, here's a quick list of contributed modules that I would suggest as useful for particular site slements.
Suggested module list for a standard artist/band site
The following is a list of suggested add-on/contributed modules for some of the standard features you see on a band website.
* Notes re: music ecommerce.
While I'm not saying bands/artists shouldn't put their music up on itunes/other, I would say that it doesn't make sense to send visitors to your site away to another site, now, just to buy the music.
You can use someone like Artists First if you're in the USA/ Europe or Indie Store in the uk to setup your own downloads shop and add a SHOP LINK field to the audo nodes (using the cck.module) that links directly to your shop.
The benefits are three-fold..i.e. (1) the margins are a lot higher (2) you know your customer. (itunes just sends a statement of sales, they don't send you a list of customers and their email addresses.) (3) you choose the price and the quality e.g. Don't sell at itunes quality level (128kbps aac) sell MP3s at 320kbps at the very minimum. Sell full WAV/AIFF download as well, if you can, at a higher price. The difference in quality is incredible (between itunes and WAV).
Both artist-first and indiestore report sales to the chart companies and artists first also provide mobile phone payments (SMS), where people can buy a song/realtone/mobile content using their phone instead of a credit card/paypal/other.
If chart reporting and/or SMS mobile phone payments aren't important to the band/project, you can simply use the quickfiles.module to sell downloads using paypal as the payment engine. The main benefits over the ecommerce.module is that it's remakably smooth and quick at both ends - for the developer setting up the site and for the shopper who just wants to buy a song/album download quickly, without having to register and jump through hoops.
hope that helps point you in the right direction..it's not a definitive list, it's more a discussion starter and it would be great if others would chip in their suggestions so we can perhaps create a definitive, recommended shortlist of modules for use in band/artist sites..
I haven't included a suggested list of modules for a fan/members login-area......I think that could be a very long and seperate discussion.
Dub
Another site that is
Another site that is offering a full digital distribution package is CD Baby. I think the startup fee is fairly small ($35). What you do is send a bunch of CDs to CD Baby and they set you up with a traditional CD Baby storefront with some online samples and the ability for people to buy your cd direct from the warehouse. Additionally, they'll hook you up with digital distribution where they'll make available selected songs to their partners...iTunes, Rhapsody, Yahoo! music, ringtone companies, etc...and then they claim artists keep 91% of the profits from these digital sales.
Just an alternative to Artists First although AF sounds like they let the artist keep 95% of the profits. Here is a comparison chart.
different horses for different courses,
Hi Zirafa,
Yep, CD baby are very popular, but, I wouldn't compare them to Artists First. They provide very different services.
The smart thing to do would be do both, i.e. use a direct-sales-solution like Artists First while at the same time, stock your music in digital shops via cdbaby/theorchard or many others.
The only thing I would mention about aggregators is that it's extremely difficult to get out of some of those deals, some of which are exclusive by the way..i.e. if your music is on 100+ shops, you have no control over the price or your catalogue. Or what happens to your catalogue, if, as predicted, quite a few of the big online music stores go out of business over the next year or two?
Furthermore, very few, if any, actively promote your music for you - that's pretty much left up to the label, so it is sorta dumb (in my opinion) for a band/artist/label to invest in marketing/promotion and then send the fan to someone else's shop.
In the same breath, it's also worth mentioning, that as the music biz shifts into being a licensing-led, rather than product-led industry, control of your catalogue is paramount. I'm advising artists not to put their full catalogue up on itunes/other shops. Instead I recommend they just put up their single/EP releases or teasers for the full albums on third-party shops (like itunes) and sell those direct- and in a higher quality format. e.g. itunes typically sells 128kbps @ 0.99cents, so, bands should sell (minimum) 320kbps @ 0.99 cents from their own shop.
There's a number of reasons for that. The main one being that people, generally, don't like buying music on itunes and they don't have a problem with using google and buying direct from an artist site that's well presented and trustworthy.
Incidentally, Itunes announced today that they will start selling music in higher quality (for a higher price). That's primarily to combat the trend in the UK and europe - where direct-sales shops are selling at a higher quality- without DRM. that was really hurting itunes europe. I'm amazed it took them so long to change their policy on that.
Dub
covering your bases
Having your music distributed to digital (and physical shops) is a good way to cover your bases. While a lot of these stores don't recommend/promote, several sites (online radio, zines, social networks, blogs, etc.) will send you to Amazon and/or itunes to make a purchase. Getting your music out to multiple social networks and online radio (such as Last.fm and Pandora) is the piece that often gets overlooked. The ideal would to provide an easy way for artists to distribute to multiple sites as well as provide information/education about these services.
Real nice to see some new activity and discussion in the group!
Gus Austin
PepperAlley Productions
Gus Austin
quick one..
you're right, of course about covering all bases, Gus, but there's also another point to be made...
There is a huge amount of new ideas springing up online, especially with music. It's almost like the late nineties when there was a cheque-waving-frenzy about dotcom ideas and everyone, including my neighbours dog, had a business plan.
The latest in a long list is Peter Gabriel's WE7.COM which is aiming to give songs for free and get advertisers to pay £0.50pence per song.
A lot of these ideas will fall by the wayside and I would advise all artists/labels to treat it as extra exposure...i.e. upload teaser tracks, but, not the full catalogue. Register a label account with last.fm - but make sure you change the shop link from amazon to your own (Drupal driven) siteshop.
Control of the catalogue is key and if you're just pushing out teasers...i.e. singles and album teasers, for examples, alongside free live track downloads - to satisfy the 'free net' culture, you can benefit from all this activity and the exposure that comes with it.
Charlie McCreevy (an Irish politician in Brussels) is fighting for a single european license for music/film...which means it won't be long now before artists can license (as well as sell) their content directly from their site. At the moment it's done territory-by-territory and a lot of fees are sapped up with admin, but, once that's gone, artists/labels can 'upgrade' their sites to be a licensing as well as a sales hub.
So I agree with your point about having an easy way for artists to distribute to multiple sites. At the moment, contemplate.module is an absolute gem...you can customise the RSS output of any content type..such as tour dates, releases, reviews, news...etc. etc. so that capability is already there.
I see another opportunity for Drupal driven music sites, though...where similar artists can cross-pollinate their fan bases by sharing logins, for example. i.e. a fan member of band A can login to the members area of Band B using the same login details.
But that's being discussed at another thread..
http://groups.drupal.org/node/4299
Dub
The more I think about this,
The more I think about this, the more it does make sense to publish songs/teasers/sales on your own site. If you think of the entire internet ITSELF as a giant catalog, then it doesn't matter if the track exists on iTunes or Amazon. Everything equally weighted, if someone types an artist name in a search engine you would want that artist's site to popup first, not some third party site.
A great example of a music radio site that treats the web itself as a catalog of music is Hype Machine. This is essentially a music scraping site that looks at a bunch of music blogs and anytime there is a link to an mp3 file it aggregates it. Then it creates an easy way to listen to the latest tracks, either with a pop up flash player or with another playlist formats. It's like an endless radio station of free music, and if you want to find out more about the track you are listening to you click the link. Very simple, yet effective.
Treating the web itself as a "catalog", we can now attempt to answer two basic questions:
1) How can artists publish their work to this "catalog" on their own licensing terms?
2) How to find out about new music in this "catalog"?
I could see a Drupal distro for each case, respectively:
1) A Drupal Band distro (music publishing, ecommerce, fan building, etc)
2) A Drupal Radio distro (music aggregator, playlist type site)
Each work independently of each other, but are also complementary, and follow the K.I.S.S. principle.
..
If you look at the Itunes podcast model, which is quite succesfull, I think there's scope for applying the same model to artist sites (driven by Drupal or other tools)....i.e. podcasts aren't actually stored on Apple's servers. They are stored on the podcast producers server space, or if they're popular, on a sponsored server.
So, consider if some smart cookie was to come up with an artist-site-feed site that's wrapped in social networking, ala myspace/bebo.com and music discovery, ala pandora/last.fm?
The artist/band or webteam don't have to update multiple sites each time there's an update..all they have to do is submit their feeds, in the same way people submit their podcast feeds to itunes. Instead of just displaying the podcast artwork, description and track listing, the feeds would carry gig info, discography, releases, news etc.
RSS might be able to cater for that as it is, out of the box, but, creating an, ahem, ASS (Artist Simple Syndication) protocol, specifically for artist related feeds might make a lot of sense.
Edited: As a quick addendum, Peter Gabriel (one of the guys behind we7 was also behind od2.com which is a digital warehouse for music. The idea was that anyone could setup a shop with a million songs for sale....by plugging od2.com into their site. So, for selling music, it is important where the music is stored, who authenticates the sale and who takes care of the digital delivery.
Dub
Exactly - an aggregator site
Exactly - an aggregator site (drupal or otherwise) would just suck in all the artist feeds submitted to it and organize the information in a logical way, even though the files are hosted on some other site. As long as the artist has an easy way to create the feed (maybe with their own drupal powered site) then they can just submit their feed to multiple aggregators. These aggregators could take the form of a radio site, digg type site, last.fm, pandora, etc...just by varying the way the incoming feeds are used. Huge potential there, but both sides of the equation have to be working.
I'd love to see something like last.fm or similar be based off these aggregated music feeds. In a very crude, unorganized way people are doing this with Del.icio.us MP3 bookmarks but of course not to any sort of level that is useful for a music group. I think existing sites like last.fm and pandora prove there is potential for people to discover new music simply by letting people bookmark bands or music they like for their friends to see, it just needs to be opened up a bit more.
I think RSS is pretty versatile and would be adequate. Like you could use the category tags to say if the feed item was a gig, audio file, news and the aggregator would understand that. Trying to come up with a new standard, like ASS syndication ;) might not be worth the trouble if we can just re-use an existing standard, I think.
Fascinating. I was trying to
Fascinating. I was trying to figure out the difference between the two services. Sounds like you've really studied the different options.
I find it also interesting that you mention these license deals with iTunes, etc are exclusive lockdown deals. Interesting because that sounds like the same old problem of artists trying to maintain intellectual ownership over their own work. With all the rapid changes, an artist might agree to some online licensing deal that is just as sticky as a bad record deal.
And you are right, while it sounds like a great idea to get your music in 100+ online shops, there is still a lot of promotion and work involved with driving those sales. If that work is to be done, might as well drive them to your own shop.
Of course the attraction of these aggregators is the million eyeballs and ears that are scanning across it. If, as mentioned on Chris's thread, there were some open source version of iTunes where artists maintained the point of sales directly and could keep the licensing consistent as the content gets passed down the aggregator(s), that would be great. I don't know how that site or service would look, but in my brain I see lots of these sites and shops aggregating music from each other, almost like online radio towers.
you wouldn't believe how bad it is..
I have a (music) lawyer pal in the UK who has never been busier, mostly getting small bands out of stupid, ridiculous deals with small indie labels. It's a massive problem in the UK and Europe.
He's in the uk and there problem comes from bands thinking they are okay working with a small corner-shop, bedroom independent label...I don't know who came up with this quote, but, it's rather apt:
Online aggregators are tricky, because it's very difficult to know where your music is and how much its been sold for. I've had one producer call me to ask what should he do about his music being sold on a legitimate music shop in the UK. When it shouldn't have been and the sale didn't register in his statements. It's the wild west at the moment online. Price wars are going to edge a lot of players out of business over the next year or two and nobody knows what will happen to the catalogue and agreements. Will they be snapped up at a bankruptcy auction for £0.50pence?
Then there's the subscription based services. Great for major artists. Not so great for small artists, who earn next to nothing. - don't believe all that long-tail none sense - well promoted music sells well. that's a fact.
What is more or less another fact, is that the industry is moving from being product-led to being licensing-led. So it's wise for an artist/band to maintain control of their catalogue and for my money, getting all your music on all the shops shelves, sounds like a great idea, but, in reality it means diddily squat, because you're still going to have to go out there and promote your music.
Smart Indie artists & labels are able to punch above their weight because they only need to sell 10,000 copies of an album to make the same amount of money a major would make if they sold 300,000 copies. In the same breath, that's why it makes so much sense to sell direct to fans using artists-first, indistore, snocap, finetunes etc.
With regards the "million eyeballs and ears scanning across" the music on loads of shops, I think that's actually a myth. As if people have the time. When people go into a record store in the high street, do they walk past the well presented stock at the front of the shop, walk way out back into the warehouse and start digging through the entire catalogue? I don't think so.
I can see what you're saying about the openmusic network working like an open source version of itunes music store, but, don't forget that the core heart of the network is an artform and the majority of artists don't get into music to make money, they get into it to make music for the sake of making music. In other words, I think an open music platform that allowed an artist community to grow and evolve, sans ads, sans corporations, sans venture capitalists, sans corporate structure would be a huge draw to the creative forces in the music fraternity.
I think that alone would be enough to draw artists away from myspace for example.
just my two cents.
Dub
i think i should have phrased it differently
I think comparing this open network to iTunes was a bad way to phrase it - I didn't actually mean a centralized company that aggregated music professionally. I mean little sites, maybe indie review sites, tastemaking sites, magazines, online radio stations that could publish and link to audio directly on an artists site. The idea being that all clicks to buy or to find out more get driven back directly to the artist's site, but in a consistent way. Maybe a better comparison would be trackbacks on blogs, where you could sort of follow who is talking about what. The artist publishes their content, and maybe sends it out to get reviewed, or people decide to review it - but it's all in one spot. Maybe the audio isn't for sale, or maybe it is, but the original artist would maintain control over that part of it. I'm probably doing a terrible job of explaining what I mean. I just like the idea of being able to publish one thing yourself on your own terms and then deciding to what level you wish to promote it, be it commercial or otherwise. And for other sites to be able to aggregate these sources into their own radio stations, music blogs, or even special del.icio.us bookmarks.
I honestly think that an artist-to-artist support structure is the strongest and most honest. Making tools available to allow artists to support each other and help each other in any way possible is always a plus. Sharing resources, mixing up shows, finding opening bands, and sort of combining forces promotes creativity and collaboration and alleviates some of the stresses and hurdles involved with being in a band. The last thing I want (as a musician myself) is for online tools to create MORE work for artists, because then it means LESS music making. Currently that's how it feels. That just seems so backwards to me!
quick one..
On the topic of sharing content with other sites, as an addition to the list of modules posted above, here's another module worth considering for a band/artist site:
The contemplate module allows you to customise RSS feeds for each content type. For example, you might want to share your gigs and tour information as a simple text-only list but display your discography/shop information with thumbnails and a 'buy this song now' link. Now, as well as on screen-theming, the contemplate.module includes RSS (really simple syndication) theming options that allows you to override the default RSS output for each content type.
dub
Music industry ethics
I wonder how small they all are if they're paying for a lawyer to get them out of a deal. It's really stupid to sign something you don't agree to. That said, there are a lot of unethical labels out there--although artists are just as likely to be unethical as labels. Labels can't survive without a halfway decent reputation, though. and I doubt the same can be said for successful artists who always find a major to sell their soul to. I'm really happy to work with loads of fundamentally decent people on both sides of our recording contracts.
I almost agree with you on this one now, and I definitely agreed with you at the time you wrote this post. Two years along, though, subscription services are looking more attractive. Although up until recently eMusic didn't have any major labels, they did have major artists. I know a couple of small labels that were quite happy with their revenues. Since the individual risk is relatively small, customers seem to be willing to experiment a little with less-known artists. I don't particularly like the returns we get from subscription services, but I think it's worth it for back catalogue, i.e. older releases that don't sell as much. Interestingly, Sony/BMG are only offering eMusic customers their back catalogue.
anybody fancy Creative Commons?
When thinking about licensing in an truly OpenMusic network, I think we are talking about a license that belongs to no other than the people. Sooner or later third parties loose self-control and the only one that suffers is music.
Creative Commons is a license that inspires respect to the creator, not some collective agency of copyrights. It is created by the artist, for the artist, and I believe that whoever would respect any Copyright Royalty Board enough to BUY a song would do the same if the songs license was Creative Commons Attribution-No Derivative Works 3.0 License.
This way i think it is easy to keep the licensing consistent as the content gets passed down the aggregator(s).(creativecommons_lite.module) . And as long as we agree that the best benefits come from concentrating all your marketing efforts towards your own ecommerce website, there is no apparent reason why to choose another license. What do you think?
A healthy disregard for the impossible.
not quite..
That's not the way I would interpret it, Chris. As I understand it, copyright was actually created for both creator AND consumer i.e. creative commons is just a form of copyright licensing. You can't have one without the other.
With reference to licensing in an openmusic network..I'm not so sure if it's wise to wave the creative-commons banner too wildly. At least, I wouldn't make it a pre-requisite.
The bottom line is, it doesn't matter what type of license you have or use. It's only as valuable as the amount of money you've got to protect it. So, I wouldn't get hung up on it. Artists don't. Even the larger corporations are beginning to understand that online licensing is a very different cultural beast.
Consider youtube..who could have been shut down a few weeks after launching, because of blatent copyright infringements. 10 years ago, napster was shut down by corporations who didn't understand the culture of online licensing and didn't realise that they were actually shutting down a music-loving-community with a population of 80 million people or more (ironically, every label on the planet would cut off their right arms for that now). 10 years later, some of those same corporations who shut down napster, saw youtube starting, did nothing, waited to see what happens..and are now making a small fortune from youtube. In other words, youtube was actually operating under what is the pseudo equivalent of a creative commons type license...i.e. as soon as the google deal went through..the content owners said, "ah, now, hold on a second there guys....you're making money, now. that's different."
On top that, in theory, creative commons sounds like a great idea. So did the long tail rubbish. For artists, it's actually not as straightforward, because music, to them, is priceless. It's an art form.
So, by all means have creative commons or whatever variations, as an option, but, I wouldn't push it too hard. Instead of developing a constitution around your openmusic idea, I would tend to leave things as open as possible and see what happens, i.e. don't try and second guess what might happen next, just plant a seed by providing the basic openmusic platform, make it as open as possible and the artist-community will drive it from there.
As an aside and talking about keeping things open, I genuinely believe that what is badly badly needed is a cross-pollination of music & film-making artists.
Songwriting is essentially a form of storytelling and the idea of an album as 13 or 14 songs is gone, I think.
With the drop in costs for recording and editing film, I think it's inevitable that songwriters will start collaborating with film-makers and instead of getting a piece of plastic with 14 songs on it, I can see something much more. Such as a collection of mini-novella's that intertwine with the music.
In other words, I can see the concept of an album going through a sort of rebirthing.
If you look at the creations on vimeo - one of my favourite websites, some of them are truly stunning and most are edited to synch with music. Some are awful, as well, but, that's not the point. I persuaded a songwriting client of mine to have a look and his head almost exploded with the possibilities.
So, I think it would be great if there was an OpenArtist network of some sort that nurtured the film-making and music-making fraternities into closer contact. Whether that fits with what you're thinking or not, I don't know, but, it would be incredibly interesting.
Dub
Examples
Hi, Can you give me a link or two showing an example of the suggested module list applications? It would be great to see them up on a site. I am starting the musicbridges site which will be a community for music teachers, musicians, students, lessons, bands, collaborative projects for musicians to create music together and a series of live webcasts which will be podcasts. It may not become all that and it may take its own turn but to get started I need to set it up with some modules I think will be useful to musicians and/or music teachers (public and private). News items may also become part of this which is of course the obvious with any community. Thanks, Lee
PS please ignore the theme and order (or disorder) of the site right now. I have spent no time on looks or design which it needs desperately! Thats on the list. Suggestions welcome.
Musicbridges sound great.
Musicbridges sound great. There aren't many music communities out the for teacher like myself apart from TES. I hope you find the modules you need. The link to your site doesn't appear to be working?