Text Resize: A Discussion

kevee's picture

This is a reaction to NonProfit's awesome and most useful post on modules pertaining to accessibility. Wiki pages don't have comments, so I thought we could track discussion here.

It seems in the accessibility community that user agents are so good at resizing text and zooming in general, that websites which provide text resizing widgets like those provided by the Text Resize Module do more harm than good. Having lived with an individual who used ZoomText on Windows often, as well as the MacOS screen zoom capability, I would say that user agents or browsers themselves do a much better job than any JavaScript or CSS rewriting tool provided by websites to increase accessibility.

While the Text Size and Text Resize modules may have been useful tools back in the day, I think the general agreement in the accessibility community is that text resizing or other preferences which affect user interactions within the scope of a single website are better kept within the realm of user agents or additional layers of assistive technology. Websites should not by themselves provide elements of user interaction which might override preferences of a user's of accessible technology, or which might provide a much less useful interaction than those provided by their native user agents.

I'm open to discussion on this, but in light of the accessible technology community's response to website-based accessibility features, it might be best if we came to a conclusion on one side or other of this debate and consistently applied it to recommendations about which modules might provide the best experience for users of assistive technology.

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page resizing

jjsarton - Fri, 2010-08-06 05:56

Accoeding to my experiences resizing of a whole web page shall be possible with modifying only the font-size entry for the body tag. If the user modify the the default user agent font-size or use a simple user style which set the wanted default font size to an appropriate value the results will be the same as for zooming where the user style sheet has the advantage that any zoom factor can be set. There are no difference for the rendering,
An other big advantage is that browsers which are not really browser (MSIE) will work well.

A disadvantage is of course that some pages are wrong regarding accessibility, font-size and or width/height
expressed in px or other absolute units and no respect of the user agent setting. A good site shall render large textes with the browser default and not decrease/increase this value. This must be a standard and if all site
designer respect this web sites will be more accessible for every person.


page resizing

jjsarton - Fri, 2010-08-06 05:57

Accoeding to my experiences resizing of a whole web page shall be possible with modifying only the font-size entry for the body tag. If the user modify the the default user agent font-size or use a simple user style which set the wanted default font size to an appropriate value the results will be the same as for zooming where the user style sheet has the advantage that any zoom factor can be set. There are no difference for the rendering,
An other big advantage is that browsers which are not really browser (MSIE) will work well.

A disadvantage is of course that some pages are wrong regarding accessibility, font-size and or width/height
expressed in px or other absolute units and no respect of the user agent setting. A good site shall render large textes with the browser default and not decrease/increase this value. This must be a standard and if all site
designer respect this web sites will be more accessible for every person.


Text resize widgets should fade into the past

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sat, 2010-08-07 00:04

@Kevee, you're right. Text resize widgets are completely unnecessary with properly coded and styled pages. I really like @mgifford's approach on his website, where he shows people who want to resize text how to do it within their browser. Of course, not much beats Control-+ on a Windows machine or Command-+ on a Mac.

And just a few months ago, I saw a demo of a tool called Zone Clipper that further reduces the need for these text resize widgets. Two of its features show why text resize is often not helpful to people with low moderate vision:

  • It increases the size of the body text, but not necessarily the headings. In fact, in some cases it decreases the size of headings. Headings are shorter than the body of a document, so it takes only a little work for people with low moderate vision to read them when the font size is not extremely large. Think about it: if a person needs 32 point type, then blowing an 8 point page up by a factor of four makes it legible. But at the same time the text went from 8 points to 32, the headings, which started out at, say, 16, would blow up to 64 points. Nobody needs headings to be that big. In fact, text that is so big can be even more difficult to read. So headings need to be big enough to make them out, but no bigger.
  • Zone Clipper resizes the text without expanding the column width beyond the edge of the screen. So the person with low moderate vision can read easily and scroll in only one direction — vertically. This dramatically improves the ability to read the text faster.
  • Zone Clipper also gives the user complete control over text and background colors. That's important because many people with low moderate vision are more comfortable reading large text with low contrast. The right settings vary wildly with the individual, so Zone Clipper leaves this feature completely in the user's control.

Developed by Wayne Dick, who himself has low moderate vision, Zone Clipper allows a person to select the block of text they want to read from a Web page. They paste that block into Zone Clipper, and it reformats the text to suit their needs.

Offering the resize widgets is considerate, and they were useful just a year or two ago, but they're just not the best answer any more. It's better to point people to solutions that give them greater control.


Summary from Twitter

mgifford's picture
mgifford - Sat, 2010-08-07 16:32

I posted a question on twitter and got a great response - @webaxe summarized the discussion very well.

I posted a link with "AAA Text Size?" on pages on my site that link to a page educating people about how to use their browser to effectively resize their text.

This might be the best compromise until this functionality is well understood. Someone suggested linking it to an accessibility statement that includes this description, which would work too.


Soo.....

kevee's picture
kevee - Sat, 2010-08-07 16:33

So perhaps in light of this, and another great WebAxe post on the subject recently, we should suggest removing text size widget modules from that previous post with a list of modules/themes which help with accessibility.

--
Web Programming Specialist, Cal State Monterey Bay


How about keeping it, but adding comments?

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sat, 2010-08-07 18:18

@kevee, I think that one thing that is useful about the list is that it lets people know every module that claims to help with accessibility, one way or another. I would find it helpful to have that full list broken down into groups. For example, a breakdown something like this would help a lot of site builders and module maintainers know what their best options are today:

  • Recommended for every site
  • Helpful for specific circumstances
  • Duplicated by improvements outside Drupal
  • Abandoned, unsupported, or obsolete

I know that g.d.o isn't the place to rate modules, but I would think that if I developed a module for Drupal 5 and found out that improvements in browsers had already made it unnecessary, I would sigh with relief at not having to update it for Drupal 7 and to make sure the module itself is accessible for developers who have disabilities.

And without these categories, site builders who find a module that isn't on the list would have to do and redo a lot of research to find out whether that module is worth including in their latest Drupal install.


That's an excellent

kevee's picture
kevee - Sun, 2010-08-08 01:48

That's an excellent compromise, Cliff.

--
Web Programming Specialist, Cal State Monterey Bay


Agreed

mgifford's picture
mgifford - Sat, 2010-08-07 16:42

That is assuming that we put in a link to the post so that folks know the background.


I prefer methods that are

Everett Zufelt - Sat, 2010-08-07 16:43

I prefer methods that are easiest for all users to understand and use. Notwithstanding the downsides to text resizing widgets, I would argue that for some users they are still easier to understand and use than to read through a page of documentation explaining how to resize text from the user agent. WCAG requires that text be resizable to 200% without the use of assistive tech.

Do users even know which browser they are using in order to follow the correct set of text resizing directions? I know some that certainly would not.

Accessibility Consultant & Web Developer - Zufelt.ca
@ezufelt on Twitter | LinkedIn profile


Resizing from browsers is simple!

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sat, 2010-08-07 17:55

Hey, Everett! Nice to hear from you! I've been away for a bit, so I'm still catching up on getting back in touch with a number of folks.

Although I agree with you in principle, we've gotten to the point where the obstacles to explaining options for resizing are trivial:

  • All the browsers I have used — IE (ick!), Safari, Firefox, and OmniWeb — increase text size (and image size, too, although perhaps only if the image is sized in ems) with a simple Control-Plus (in Windows) or Command-Plus (in Mac). Are there any recent browsers that don't have this feature? If this feature is universal, or nearly universal, then it's so easy to explain that it's hard to imagine anyone won't be able to make use of it. And it's even easier for the user to implement. By the way, once you resize text once in a tab, that size persists in that tab for any page you go to. So you don't have to repeat this key sequence every time you open a new page.
  • Mike's "explanation" is actually a very short video. People who need text resize can see, so that should work, provided that the video is captured at close enough range for them to be able to see it. Even if an "Accessibility Tips" page had to feature a different video for every combination of browser and operating system, it wouldn't take that much effort to generate. And once a video is done anywhere, anyone on the Web should be able to find and use it.
  • When Zone Clipper is available for download — and I forget which operating systems it works with, but I think Wayne is shooting for all three — its site will have all of the operating instructions. All we would have to do is point folks there. It's browser-independent, too. (I'm going to ping Wayne and let him know somebody is really talking up his new tool.)

In other words, I think we can develop a short, sweet, and easily skimmed page that will help almost everyone, if not everyone.


From my experience working

kevee's picture
kevee - Sun, 2010-08-08 01:52

From my experience working with users with low-vision or difficulty parsing everything on the screen at once, they are familiar with the standard browser zoom capabilities. I agree that you should be able to zoom without assistive tech (I need to use it on sites sometimes as well!), but almost all browsers provide a zoom capability that is more than adequate without additional software or hardware.

Also, the quality of text resizing provided by JavaScript in the browser to basically bump up the font size on a page is much poorer than the native full-rendering-tree zooming provided by browsers.

--
Web Programming Specialist, Cal State Monterey Bay


Text resize widgets should fade into the past

jjsarton - Sat, 2010-08-07 17:47

There are some pages which contain text resize widgets, they have all limitations.

For my own I think that large textes must be printed out with the default font size of the browser which can be easely set by the user (an other alternative is user style sheets but they are to complicated for most people).

All dimensions must also be expressed in % or em. If this is the case changing the default font size act as the zoom function provided by modern browser with the advantage that this will alway work if the page designer don't use smaller font size as the browser default and if there are not mm, cm, inch, pt and px within the css files and the pages themselve.


@Cliff I am flying under the

Everett Zufelt - Sat, 2010-08-07 18:09

@Cliff

I am flying under the radar currently.

Does this method work with IE6 /XP< what about older versions of Safari on older versions of OS X or older versions of Firefox / Opera? I'm not saying that it is impossible, but we are living, as always, in a technology growing pains time, where we need to give consideration to users of older technologies. We also need to consider users so accustomed to instructions being useless that they would never click for them or read them if they found them.

Arguments about anyone being able to use the newest NVDA / Firefox for free are moot.

Thanks

Accessibility Consultant & Web Developer - Zufelt.ca
@ezufelt on Twitter | LinkedIn profile


I hear you!

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sat, 2010-08-07 18:27

At work I've been using and teaching others to use the Control-+ keystroke for at least two years, and have never heard back from anyone that it didn't work. I know it works with Windows XP, because that's still what we're using at work. And I think we were still in IE 6 when I first started teaching it, so it might work there, too.

And Zone Clipper works with any rendered page, regardless of how that page was produced. It works from the source code as displayed, not from a call to the browser. At least I think I have that right.


Thanks

NonProfit's picture
NonProfit - Mon, 2010-08-09 14:47

I think that one thing that is useful about the list is that it lets people know every module that claims to help with accessibility, one way or another. I would find it helpful to have that full list broken down into groups.

Yes, this would be a great help! I always assumed an AAA widget was something I should be using.

I've long had a passing interest in a11y, but truthfully have not taken the time to gain more than a superficial understanding. I created that list in preparation for my Drupal podcast, when next month's topic will be accessibility. I'm so glad people with more knowledge are weighing in!

If anyone can point me toward accessibility resources or is willing to critique a pre-release of the show, please contact me.

Thanks!

-NP


Broke up the one table into three

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Wed, 2010-08-11 01:18

I also added a caption to each table, but isn't the styling for captions pathetic (as in absent)? Can we do better?

I also added a brief explanation as to why the text resizers are deprecated. In that explanation, I linked to this discussion and the WebAxe article.


WebAxe article.

jjsarton - Wed, 2010-08-11 06:04

The WebAxe article contain a little error. image may also be resized with such widgets. If all dimensions are expressed in % or em all element will be scaled according to the text magnification factor.


Give them a fish, or teach them to fish?

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Wed, 2010-08-11 17:49

@jjsarton, the most important aspect of this message is that it's easier and better to point people to a tool that will always be available to them — their browser's built-in ability to resize pages — than to give them a tool that works on only one Web page or website. If you and a person in a wheelchair approach a building that has a hidden ramp for access, the right thing to do is to help them find the ramp, not carry them up the stairs. Pointing out the ramp empowers them; carrying them up the stairs gives them a false sense of dependence on you.

And from the standpoint of a site developer, why should I add a module to my maintenance burden when the feature it provides is already available to every user through their browser?


Input Filtering

mgifford's picture
mgifford - Wed, 2010-08-11 14:27

I tried to edit the table here - http://groups.drupal.org/node/85199

to style it up with:

<caption style="caption-side : bottom; font-size: 18px; font-weight:900;">Helpful Modules</caption>

Sadly, it's being rewritten as:

<p>Helpful Modules</p>

So either we abandon the use of caption & use headings (H2 or H3) and/or we lodge a bug somewhere.


Let's do both

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Wed, 2010-08-11 16:58

Unless html5 has completely changed the rules on <caption> tags — and I haven't been following the development of html5 closely enough to know whether that's even up for discussion — we need to have it work well in Drupal, so let's file a bug as soon as we figure out where to do so.

But for the time being, I'll pull the captions out of each table and make them h2s.


They fixed that issue, but now we need CSS

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Thu, 2010-08-12 18:11

The <caption> tags no longer get stripped out, but the caption displays as plain text, centered — much less prominent than the table's column and row heads.

Semantically, this wiki page probably works better with an <h2> for each table, anyway. That gives a clear indication as to where the <h3>-headed paragraphs explaining the table of deprecated modules belong.


I disagree with the fact that

attheshow's picture
attheshow - Sat, 2010-11-13 04:18

I disagree with the fact that these modules are deprecated. Obviously, since I maintain the Text Resize module. Just saying that obviously all users know how to press Command +/- or Control +/- to increase/decrease font size is just completely untrue. Many elderly users are not as tech-savvy as we younger users and need an easy way to increase the font size on the page. I also find it faulty logic to mark the Text Resize on the wiki page as a deprecated module when the usage statistics of the module are higher than 7 of the 10 modules that are listed in the "Helpful" section at the top of the page. The usage statistics mean that the community disagrees with you and that this is still a helpful tool to have on a site that needs to provide information to a variety of user groups.

Mark W. Jarrell
Web Services Specialist
Austin Peay State University
http://fleetthought.com
http://www.apsu.edu
Twitter: attheshow


For clarification

mgifford's picture
mgifford - Sat, 2010-11-13 05:05

Hey Mark,

Thanks for chiming in. The momentum around depreciating the text resizing type of widgets all comes around the philosophy of teaching people to fish (so to speak). What it boils down to is that technically, the browser does a better job or resizing a web page than any javascript widget. It's the right tool for the job technically.

Now the thing is that many folks don't know how to use it and heck, a lot of older folks with vision problems are going to have trouble with control characters. I'm still surprised at how many folks don't even know how to undo/cut/paste from the keyboard (I've been doing it since 1989 with my first Mac). So people have gotten used to the -/+ icons and many people actually look for and use them. But as i've tried to do in my own site http://openconcept.ca I've put that into a link which explains how to properly resize a web page.

Now I might be wrong about all of this. Certainly your module is quite popular. It's probably well coded and I am glad you have been maintaining it. Perhaps it's a question of the term depreciated.. Certainly from a software sense that's harsher than I intend. However, I do think from an accessibility sense the idea of Javascript text resizing it's accurate (and that's how I intended the use of the word 'depreciated').

If you have other ideas to teach folks to use the better tool, or if you disagree with me that the browser does a better job at properly resizing text. Just let me know.


Usage Statistics Don't Measure Usefulness

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sat, 2010-11-13 06:14

Hi, Mark!

As Mike said, the issue isn't whether people know how to resize text. It's whether we give them something that works less well than a feature built into their browser — and works only on the site they're on at the time — or teach them how to use their own browser's feature to get better access to all the sites they visit.

As the person who chose the term "deprecated," perhaps I should point out that the main purpose of our wiki is to guide folks to the modules that offer the best improvement in accessibility today — not the modules everyone is using. So I borrowed the term used for the same purpose in the specs for markup languages.

Before all browsers were able to resize text (and images!), your module was one of the most useful for enhancing accessibility. But browsers have changed, so today your module offers nothing that a browser can't do better. That's not my opinion; that's just the way it is. To learn more, or even to participate more broadly in this discussion, see Jared Smith's related post on WebAIM.

That doesn't diminish my respect for how useful your module used to be, for how thoughtful it was for you to develop it when you did, or for your talent as a module developer. It's just a way to let people know which modules offer the most benefit to their Drupal site today. And, Mark, I hope you will devote your talent and energies to helping with the documentation projects we have going on here and the many active issues for accessibility in the Drupal issue queue. We sure can use your help!


I never said that usage

attheshow's picture
attheshow - Sat, 2010-11-13 16:04

I never said that usage statistics measure usefulness. I said that the community disagrees with you that having this type of functionality as part of the interface of a website is deprecated. Yes, while it's true that you might be able to convince your tech-familiar coworkers or your blog readers to use the Control +/- keystrokes pretty quickly, it's going to take the average user much longer to catch up. This type of public awareness doesn't happen over night when a new browser version is released. As mgifford pointed out, many computer users aren't even aware of keystrokes that have been around for ages such as Control+C or Control+V.

In my opinion, marking text resize modules as deprecated at this point in time is misinformation.

Mark W. Jarrell
Web Services Specialist
Austin Peay State University
http://fleetthought.com
http://www.apsu.edu
Twitter: attheshow


There is room for disagreement

mgifford's picture
mgifford - Sat, 2010-11-13 17:23

Hey Mark,

There's certainly room here for disagreement. However, first, I don't know if you did look at the text resize link on the pages of my site. It goes to this page here to teach them how to fish. I'd appreciate your feedback on this - http://openconcept.ca/text_resize

I'd like to hear if you agree or disagree just on the point that resizing is best done by the browser, whether or not people know that this function exists.

Cliff's links are good. This has been an issue that a lot of folks have struggled with. I'd be interested in your view of the WebAim article. These guys are global experts working to define best practices.

But finally, there's room for respectful disagreement here. If you think the text resize modules are still relevant, than find some way to express that in the wiki. Probably changing the title from degraded to disputed & working to ensure that your side of the argument is given fair treatment is best.

Just please make sure that you have given proper consideration of the arguments we have been making in defining accessibility best practices.


Built-in accessibility features vs. External widgets

rangin - Sun, 2010-11-14 17:59

I highly respect the efforts of Drupal developers who have been trying so hard to improve the accessibility of Drupal and all the related modules and I am very pleased to see such in-dept discussion.

Accessibility is not always well-defined and people sometimes have different opinion about accessibility and accessibility features. I think as long as we don't confuse work-around solution with universally accessible features, then it is perfectly fine to have such discussions.
Fortunately, the discussion here is not a work-around solution vs. a universally accessible solution.
If I am not mistaking the discussion here is do we need the resize widget while all browsers provide the same functionality in a kind of consistent way across different operating systems.

I believe as long as browsers and Os offers general accessibility features such as text resize/zoom, disabling styles and etc. in reasonable and non-complicated ways then users should utilize them. I work primary with Firefox, IE, and occasionally with Safari on Mac and I believe at least these 3 browsers offer the above general accessibility features in a kind of consistent way. I don't know about Chrome, Opra or other browsers. If they support such features in similar manner then I think we don't need any additional widget to do the same job.

A few years ago such widgets were extremely useful because not all browsers provided these functions.

The resize widget might be still needed for those applications where browsers menu bars and their functions are hidden and disabled.


Works beautifully in Opera

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Mon, 2010-11-15 00:53

I'm using it now. I don't have personal experience with Chrome, but I'd find it hard to believe that zoom doesn't work there, too. Can anyone with experience with Chrome let us know?

I'm a little puzzled by your last comment, @rangin. What is an example of a situation in which the browser menu and its functions would be disabled, but this resize widget would be available?

Anyway, disabling the browser isn't good in a browser-based application, is it? Isn't that inherently a step away from accessibility?


Web sessions with browser menu disabled

rangin - Mon, 2010-11-15 15:34

Hi Cliff,

I'm a little puzzled by your last comment, @rangin. What is an example of a situation in which the browser menu and its functions would be disabled, but this resize widget would be available?

I am talking about web applications where the menu bars and and their corresponding functions are disabled. You could see such web applications more in the past but fortunately it seems it is getting less and less.

Blackboard is one of them that still uses this (bad) technique for the assessment module. When you start an assessment, it opens it in a new browser window with all the menu disabled. At this stage user doesn't have access to the text resize/zooming or other relevant styling features.
I consider this technique as a bad practice because user no longer can control the styling options among other useful functions such as save as, print, select all, copy, etc usually available via browser menu systems. Sometimes functions associated with shortcut keys such as control+p for print can still be performed but not always.

Financial Web applications are another group of applications that they disable browser menu for selected features such as money transfer or stock quotes or trades.

Again, I am for the idea to utilize browser built-in features as long as they do the intended jobs vs. external widgets.


I wouldn't say I'm

SteveLee - Mon, 2010-11-15 15:40

I wouldn't say I'm experienced but just tried Chrome and Ctrl +-0 work as expected.

I lean towards the view it's better to use a general tool/method that works on all webs sites, otherwise I'm stuck if I visit a site that doesn't have little widgets or my settings. BTW this BBC accessibility site is good for configuring a11y, if a little dated (e.g no Chrome)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/

Steve Lee


On the subject of the BBC

mgifford's picture
mgifford - Mon, 2010-11-15 17:07

I do like the BBC's site, but from their example, they are using a "Change font size and colours on this site AAA" model.

This brings up a couple issues. One, the BBC isn't using a generalized tool approach. Would be useful to hear what they think of this.

The other thing is, high contrast sites. That's something that I think has to be managed by the site & can't be managed by the browser. At least not in an easily generalizable way.

I do think that text re-size widgets & colour contrast widgets are similar in many sites.


I've been hearing slightly

SteveLee - Mon, 2010-11-15 20:12

I've been hearing slightly conflicting reports but basically the BBC have been working on a toolkiit for web developers since late last year. Called Accessibility Toolkit or ATK this could be included by web developers, and will probably create a consistent use personalisation mechanism that is cloud stored. Personalisation is important and sure the BBC have some clout so it could get some traction but the fact that many sites won't use it points towards a system/AT solution being better. At least for now.

Steve Lee


Which Community?

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sat, 2010-11-13 19:09

Mark, Mike has made good points here — check out his way of teaching people to use their browser to do text resizing, and read the WebAIM discussion — but I'll just add that our role as the accessibility group has been and is to educate other Drupal developers about current best practices.

Best practices change. When you created your module, it was a fantastic addition. That so many people have adopted it is great. But now the problem is that it's one of a growing number of modules that claim to improve accessibility — and, whereas the others add features that are not already built in to either browsers or Drupal core, that is no longer the case for the text resize widgets.

In markup language, "deprecated" means "It's on the way out." It doesn't mean "Nobody is using it." It doesn't mean "Others won't continue to use it." It simply means "We have better ways to do this now, so this way is no longer endorsed."

When site developers come to me and ask, "What can I do to make my site more accessible?," I can't in good conscience say, "Add a module that reproduces a feature that is built into every browser on the planet."

And that's what I would be saying if I were to say, "Add a module that inserts a text resizing widget."

It would be one more module to maintain, but it offers the developer no benefit. And that's why we say, "It's there, but it's deprecated." And when people ask me — as they have — I recommend that they consider other modules, but not the text resizing modules.

Truth be told, I would love to be able to put the "deprecated" label on every one of the modules in our wiki — because that would mean that Drupal core, browsers, or markup had evolved to the point of fully supporting accessibility, with no add-ons needed. If that ever happens, it will be a great day.


I don't want to read, I just want to resize

Everett Zufelt - Sun, 2010-11-14 01:25

@Mark wrote:

"I disagree with the fact that these modules are deprecated. Obviously, since I maintain the Text Resize module. Just saying that obviously all users know how to press Command +/- or Control +/- to increase/decrease font size is just completely untrue. Many elderly users are not as tech-savvy as we younger users and need an easy way to increase the font size on the page. "

  • Agreed. I don't want to be educated, I want easy access to your content. I don't want to read a page of documentation about how to make your content accessible to me. I want links that are right there for me to click. "I'm having trouble reading this. Oh look, a thingy I can click on... (click, click) Oh look, I can read without a problem now!".

So, although I appreciate the comments from Mike and Cliff, and from the WebAIM article, at this time I would tend to lean toward text resizing widgets being a good practice. That being said, if your site is part of an Intranet at a software design company, where you can reasonably anticipate all of your users having access to the knowledge of how to resize text in a browser, then I would imagine it to be clutter.

"I also find it faulty logic to mark the Text Resize on the wiki page
as a deprecated module when the usage statistics of the module are higher than 7 of the 10 modules that are listed in the "Helpful" section at the top of the page. The usage statistics mean that the community disagrees with you and that this is still a helpful tool to have on a site that needs to provide information to a variety of user groups."

  • I believe that using usage statistics is a great way to find out, roughly speaking, how often a module is used. With a topic as commonly misunderstood as accessibility I don't believe that it tells us much more. I would still suggest that it be modified to "disputed" with a link to this discussion.

Accessibility Consultant & Web Developer - Zufelt.ca
@ezufelt on Twitter | LinkedIn profile


I'd rather find out a universal fix in two clicks

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sun, 2010-11-14 05:51

I don't want to read a page of documentation about how to make your content accessible to me. I want links that are right there for me to click.

Everett, following Mike's model, you don't have to read a page of documentation. You click a link that looks very much like Mark's link, see a short video that shows you the keystrokes to use to make your browser resize a page, do that yourself, and you're done.

And in that brief time, you've learned how to make every page you encounter on the Web — not just the page you're on — work for you.

I have real data on this. I've taught accessibility techniques twice a week for two years — a total of somewhere around 2000 students. Every one of them has appreciated learning that Control-plus (or Command-plus on a Mac) zooms in on the page and the corresponding combinations with the hyphen or minus zoom out.

Every one.

It's far far better to show people how they can control their environment themselves than to adjust their environment for them.

And, for what it's worth, we aren't really talking about equivalent operations. The text resize widget can adjust the text to any one of three size settings, and it adjusts the size of text only. The browser-based zoom command has a much, much wider range of resizing. Testing it out just now, there are 13 different zoom levels available on this page with FireFox on Mac OS X, and the text and graphics zoom in tandem.

The browser-based zoom is far better, is universal, and is not sufficiently well known. As long as developers add text resize widgets to their sites, people who don't know about their browser's zoom capabilities will continue to remain ignorant. When the norm becomes for developers to do as Mike has done, and show people how to control the zoom level themselves through their browser, then browser-based zooming will become well known among everyone, and especially among people who need it.

So I think "deprecated" is precisely the right word. The time for resize widgets is past. A better solution is available. To best serve people who use our websites, we need to let them know about that better solution — not offer them "support" that they don't actually need.


Every student in an accessibility class

Everett Zufelt - Sun, 2010-11-14 06:02

@Cliff
"I have real data on this. I've taught accessibility techniques twice a week for two years — a total of somewhere around 2000 students. Every one of them has appreciated learning that Control-plus (or Command-plus on a Mac) zooms in on the page and the corresponding combinations with the hyphen or minus"

I note that these are students that are in a class on accessibility (voluntarily or mandated), who are there to learn about accessibility.

I agree completely that the preferred method is that every person learn about the native functionality of their user agent. But, I question if on a web site where I need information * now * is the right place to learn. And, I would argue (not having watched the video) that it would take longer for some to learn than for others. It also requires use of two hands in some cases, requires finding these keys on the keyboard, etc. Or I can just click, click and be done.

Accessibility Consultant & Web Developer - Zufelt.ca
@ezufelt on Twitter | LinkedIn profile


Points taken

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Mon, 2010-11-15 00:46

Still, the browser-based method is better. The video is a trivial investment in time, and the lesson learned can be used everywhere.

And, yes, Everett, these students were in a mandated class on accessibility. And by and large they hated being there — until they learned that universal design provided a solution to one of the most vexing problems facing them online — that designers really seem to love tiny fonts these days, fonts that you need 20/15 vision to read in a typical display.


My Two Cents

Charles Belov - Thu, 2010-11-18 18:22

As for user agent zoom:

  1. I don't like full-page zoom because it makes content go off the right side of my browser window, and I dislike horizontal scrolling.
  2. Zooming text makes headlines too big.
  3. In real life, I use Firefox's feature to set a minimum font size, in my case 18.
  4. Safari, at least computer Safari as opposed to iPhone Safari, also lets the customer set a minimum font size.
  5. Internet Explorer has an accessibility option to ignore a site's setting of font size.
  6. Some of my agency's customers, based on the complaints I get, are not tech-savvy.

So, I still think there is a place for a zoom widget. That it is/would be in Drupal and not in different browsers has the advantage of standardizing it across Drupal websites and across browsers, as well as being able to deal with the heading issue in a consistent manner.

But now to the dirty secret of zooming:

Many websites fall apart if I mess with font size. They overprint or cut off text, probably due to use of absolute positioning. It is not enough for a website to provide a widget or instructions and think they are done. They have to look at what they have put into their design which will break when somebody applies accessibility techniques to the user agent.

The advantage of providing zooming features as a site feature is that the site programmers and designers can test what happens when their tools are used. It is true that they can also test this at the user-agent end, but then there are a lot more variables to test.

For example, I know someone who blows up text so large that he reads one or two words per line. Wouldn't it be great if all he has to do is scroll down? Providing a control on the Drupal website would allow this to be accomplished in a manner the website has control over.

Charles Belov
Webmaster
San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency (SFMTA)


Text Resize: A Discussion

oedipus - Tue, 2010-11-16 15:42

for what it is worth, here is my recently-devalued 2 U.S. cents' worth on the drupal text re-size module:

  1. providing links to dynamically change the font size or other font properties is an "until user agent..." technique -- browsers now provide that functionality -- to let users continue to use their tools without learning about features such as zoom, is a decided disservice to users, who then do not have the knowledge to adjust the font on pages that don't offer a font changing mechanism/module, despite the fact that they have the ability to do so at their fingertips/voice-command

  2. providing a text resizing module is less efficient than native zoom, as zoom magnifies everything, not just the text

  3. providing a text resizing module isn't a bad thing, it obviously helps some users, but one of the main thrusts of accessiblity is to make accessibility features more ubiquitous, and sometimes, that entails education -- therefore, one should use the text resize module responsibly, which -- in my opinion -- is precisely what mgifford has done at the site he referenced

  4. i would give good odds that many of those whom cliff has taught web accessibility didn't know about common keyboard commands because they always use a mouse/pointing device to achieve routine results -- a user who can click on the status bar icon to change font size doesn't need to know about the keyboard commands, but in my experience of training sighted as well as blind users, having multiple means of achieving a desired result is always appreciated by the user, no matter what the level of visual acuity...


I just spotted these W3C WAI

SteveLee - Sat, 2010-11-20 10:50

I just spotted these W3C WAI recommendations, which interestingly only mention zoom and not text size adjustment

http://www.w3.org/WAI/users/browsing#seeing

We've just hit the same issue with the Maavis project which proves simple zoom controls but this leads to horizontal scrolling and sometimes missed areas. I've also seen many sites that break when text size is changed. So we've not found the perfect solution yet.

Steve Lee


Great link!

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sat, 2010-11-20 14:42

Don't have time to digest it all now, but @mgifford, can you add that link to your page with the video? It's highly informative!

@SteveLee, you inadvertently posted this comment twice. Could you delete the second or at least edit it back to "[duplicate]" to avoid confusion. (Or, @mgifford and @brabdonojc, is there some way we can delete it?)

Good addition to the discussion, Steve. Thanks!


Critical Mass?

mgifford's picture
mgifford - Sat, 2010-11-20 16:27

It's been very interesting to see so many weighty accessibility folks contribute to this thread. Certainly some very interesting ideas and it is clear that this isn't a simple issue.

Cliff the page I added with the video is here - http://openconcept.ca/text_resize - I should really be adding a link here however for folks who want to see different perspectives.

I think in an ideal world there would be some kind of combination of tools. There are probably good technical reasons for this, but:
- Why can't we have a +/- buttons that are visible on the website but that link into the browsers native +/- functionality?
- As an interim measure could we extend a +/- module to help educate people about how to use Control-+ as a way to have this function more easily in the future on all sites? Just a little educational balloon or something that alerts users about this different way of making the text larger.
- Is there some way to give designers more control over how their text gets resized by the browser? Perhaps if there was greater room for designers to alter their presentation based on the available font size at that zoom level (up to 200%)?
- Can we start to get better metrics about how people are using different zoom functions? If we know that 90% of users only ever use the +/- when it is embedded in the page design it's really hard to argue from a usability perspective that it isn't important on making the content of the page easier to see. Can we add better metrics on the TextSize module to allow us to better know how it is being used? Does google analytics (or any other analytics) allow us to know what zoom level a browser is set to?

i don't have the answers to these questions. I don't know that they exist. However, Drupal has a very large community of users & developers. There is an opportunity to influence best practices and find better ways to serve a range of users.

@Cliff - I also checked about deleting comments in threads like this and I don't have access to do this.


Thanks!

Cliff's picture
Cliff - Sat, 2010-11-20 22:57

In a drupalcamp-Austin session, so can't address all. Re-thinking this a bit; maybe there's a middle ground. And I've pinged Jared Smith with WebAIM to see if your question would work in their next survey of folks who use AT.

Best to all... stay engaged and working to improve Drupal accessibility...

Cliff


Asking in Web Aim survey

SteveLee - Mon, 2010-11-22 14:24

Excellent idea cliff. Have we just missed the call for questions?

PS. I could only edit duplicate the comment. I've no Idea how it happened.

Steve Lee


Possible method to determine what zoom level is being used

Charles Belov - Mon, 2010-11-22 19:41

I'm guessing you could take a known block of text and query its size after it is loaded. This would probably have minor variances from the expected if a font is overriden, and bigger variances, particularly with regard to height, if a font is zoomed.

A search on "determine whether a font is installed" (without the quotes) turned up various proposed detection methods.

Similarly, you could check the dimensions of the page in pixels after the page is loaded, but since pages tend to change size due to content maintenance, this would only provide a general guide over tiem.

Not sure whether full zoom (as opposed to text-only zoom or minimum font size) produces a change in pixel dimensions which would be visible to JavaScript.

Charles Belov
Webmaster
San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency (SFMTA)