I have just finished my first drupal site and I just need some clarification and input about building themes.
In the site I just built, I used the Zen theme. It worked totally fine for me as far as i can tell. If anything, i feel like it included a lot i did not use and i deleted a lot of the code that i thought was extraneous.
At the DUG meeting last week, someone did a lighting round on building your own theme.
I am just curious, what do most people making professional sites for clients use? Do you use an existing theme or do you build your own?
Is there a starter theme for building your own? So you know what templates to include for comments, etc
also, maybe a stupid question but what is the difference between putting the theme in the root themes directory and the sites/all/themes directory?
thanks for any input!

Comments
Sub-theming from Zen
Congratulations on your initial success with drupal!!
It's of course up to your client whether they want to use a stock theme (one of the many free ones from http://drupal.org/project/themes, or a purchased one from http://www.topnotchthemes.com/ or another company that sells inexpensive themes) or have a custom theme. The projects that I usually work on involve creation of a custom theme, and I suspect that is true for most sites that one would label as "professional", in that if a company or organization is going to put a non-trivial amount of funding into their website, then one of the things they're likely to want is for their website to have a unique, branded, look-and-feel. However, if your client doesn't need a unique, branded, look-and-feel, there's no reason you can't use a stock theme and still create a high-quality website.
The Zen theme is specifically designed as a base-theme for the professional designer/developer to use when creating a custom theme. The recommended approach for doing this is to place the "zen" folder in the sites/all/themes directory, not modify anything in this folder, pick a name for your about to be created custom theme (I'll unimaginatively use the name "foo" in this example), create a folder for your about to be created custom theme (e.g., "sites/all/themes/foo" or "sites/default/themes/foo" or "sites/[your_domain_name]/themes/foo"), copy the files within "sites/all/themes/zen/STARTERKIT/" into your "foo" folder, and proceed to customize within that folder only. This is detailed out more fully within "zen/README.txt".
The reasons for this approach:
1) Best practice is to never put anything into drupal's root folder (except into the "sites" folder) other than the files you unpack when downloading core drupal. This lets you upgrade minor drupal versions (for example, from 6.11 to 6.12, from 6.12 to 6.13 when it comes out) most easily -- the new drupal version can simply replace the old, with the exception of the "sites" folder.
2) The "sites/all" folder is specifically there for placing contributed projects (e.g., modules like "views", and themes like "zen") that are not part of core drupal.
3) Not modifying anything within the "sites/all/themes/zen" folder means you can upgrade to newer versions of zen when they become available.
4) Whether you want to place your custom theme ("foo") into "sites/all/themes/", "sites/default/themes/", or "sites/[your_domain_name]/themes/" is a matter of preference. "sites/all" makes sense if it's a theme you plan to re-use across more than one site or contribute to drupal.org. If it's really a custom theme only for the one website you're making, then placing it in either "sites/default", or "sites/[your_domain_name]" (whichever is the one that contains the "settings.php" file for your website), helps keep the "sites/all" folder less cluttered with code that is only meaningful for a single website. The organizational system you use especially comes into play if you're managing multiple websites with a shared drupal code-base.
5) By making "foo" a sub-theme of "zen", you only need to copy files into "foo" that you want to be different than what's in "zen/zen". If, for example, you don't need "block.tpl.php" or "block-editing.css" to be any different in your custom theme than zen's implementation, then you don't need these files within "foo". This lets you keep your "foo" folder cleaner, and only containing code that makes your theme unique. It also means that if you upgrade to a newer version of zen, you get the benefit of any changes made to files that you haven't overriden within "foo". This is usually a good thing, although in some cases, can also be annoying if you weren't expecting an upgrade to "zen" to cause any visible changes to your theme.
Anyway, I highly encourage this method for creating a custom theme. You could, of course, create a custom theme entirely from scratch, or as a sub-theme of a different theme, but I think it makes sense to only do one of those if there's a compelling reason. The drupal community is clearly gravitating towards using zen as the standard base theme, which is evidenced by its usage page.
great info
thank you so much! this clarifies a lot for me. I was confused by the different zen directories and which to start off with but now i get it.
much appreciated!
andrea
There are a couple starter
There are a couple starter themes on the Drupal themes page. The one I am currently using is Framework. In the past I had just customized a lot of the existing themes, but this can be just as time consuming as building from a simple template like Framework. I have also converted a static HTML document into a Drupal theme and it turned out pretty good and wasn't too difficult. I am not so familiar with PHP, so I used snippets of code from different themes to get the dynamic portions working. Here's a great article on creating your own themes from scratch. http://www.gomediazine.com/tutorials/create-a-killer-band-site-with-drup...
I just took a look at
I just took a look at Framework, It looks like a very good starter theme.
I use a similar one called Clean, http://drupal.org/project/clean and have used created many variations on it. It is very simple to use and easy to add regions to.
I used a similar starters theme called Hunchbaque http://drupal.org/project/hunchbaque for D5 sites.
For both of these you get pretty much a clean slate to work from.
Building your own theme is clean and easy
I would recommend starting fresh -
Here is my normal workflow:
I always keep the Garland (default theme) - I often times delete the other themes (make sure not to delete theme "engine" folder) to keep things super simple.
<?phpsnippets
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What takes me the longest is not actually the Themeing - but the design in Photoshop and converting that to usable XHTML and CSS (especially x-browser testing)
Prefer downloading a theme
I prefer just downloading a simple 2/3 column theme and customizing it myself to make it look different from all other sites that use this (free) standard theme. A downloaded theme always needs editing anyway, there will never be a theme that is a 100% like you wanted it to be :)
Greets from http://www.drupalthemes.biz
Downloaded..
I started with a fairly simple theme that was already created and I made changes to it. I changed sizes, colors, etc. I also add in all the items that I regularly use.
Once I was done, I had a base theme that can be used to create just about any theme.
I found it was faster to do it that way, plus it means I don't miss any classes/ids that are important to the look of the site.
Jenni Simonis
http://www.forwardsupport.com
Jenni Simonis
http://www.forwardsupport.com