Posted by itangalo on September 8, 2009 at 6:34am
Hi
Sorry for arriving late. I've made a Google Doc of the notes from the BOF.
Quick summary:
- Possible cities for 2010 is Berlin, Cologne, Prague, Copenhagen, Maastricht and London (in no particular order). The community (probably meaning people engaged in this group) should have a pick ready by October 15th, but before that Drupal Association will look for venues in each of the listed cities.
- Get ready to suggest cities for 2011 as well, since it should be decided no later than April 2010 (and preferrably sooner).
- Anyone wanting to be engaged in arranging Drupalcons should be more focused on promoting him/herself for a particular task than promoting the city he/she lives in.
(Thanks to spuky for being quicker than me on this! I posted this discussion to make it clear right in the header that the notes are available. There has also been some minor corrections in the text and I've excluded the e-mail addresses, which I feel rather unconfortable exposing publicly.)
//Johan Falk, NodeOne, Sweden
Comments
Thanks for putting that one
Thanks for putting that one up on google docs... I linked my post to it as I wasn't even thinking about the page with this email addresses when uploding the pdf.
copenhagen is not gonna be 2010 but 2011 ;)
Hey
I know that Copenhagen have raised its voice and talked about doing a drupalcon.
But its not gonna be in 2010 but instead 2011 (if its gonna be) we need a lot of time to get everything in order. off course unless everyone else backs out ;)
/morten.dk king of rock
morten.dk | geek Royale
Note for Blue project: There
Note for Blue project: There is one more venue able to hold 2000 people in Prague: http://www.tophotel.cz/en
up to 1600 in room, 2500
up to 1600 in room, 2500 total: http://www.cchp.cz/pages/en/konference.aspx
I would really like to see
I would really like to see Drupalcon come to UK. The guys in IRC #drupaluk have been discussing this over the last month or so. There have been a lot of suggestions on location, but London seems the obvious choice. Other suggestions have been Oxford (university), Cambridge (university) or Manchester, all of which are viable.
Some location suggestions in London are...
http://www.excel-london.co.uk/
http://www.eco.co.uk/
These are great, big, high profile venues, but when I have looked into it they are quite expensive. There are many other venues in London which would be great for Drupalcon. The underground transport network would allow easy travel across the city, there are also great places to eat, drink and sight see.
I would really like to help out organizing this, and there are a lot of people who have approached me with an interest.
Germany absolutely wants a con, too.
Whether Munich, Berlin, Cologne, or somewhere else, Germany (and German-Speaking Europe) has a huge but loosely connected Drupal community and conference facilities and universities in every major city.
German is the most-spoken native language in Europe (105 million mother tongue, 80 million non-native speakers and the 3rd-most learned language in the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language), the 2nd most downloaded Drupal version after English and the 2nd most used language on the Internet.
We need to create a tight-knit community here and convince enterprise business that Drupal has enough of an ecosystem to invest in and be future-proof.
German-Speaking Europe needs a Drupal tipping point and it's probably a very good time for an awesome German Con.
Prague - no problem
Hi, Prague no problem, agree with meba (zdravím).
Very good city, very middle of Europe, excellent beer :)
Yes Prague can hold this event, no problem here
I really need an excuse to
I really need an excuse to visit London, and the GBP isn't gonna be worthless forever! :P
I'm not too enthusiastic about Copenhagen, mainly because it will be expensive as hell for me, so any of the other options would be much more preferable for me, personally
Oxford
I would prefer Oxford to London, London is soo expensive and everybody can add a few days there if s/he wants. Prague is fine and also Copenhagen and Lisboa, but those are for 2011 only I think.
@seutje - Why is Copenhagen expensive - (just) for you? or for everybody?
. . .
------------------------------------------------
Bettina
Don't Follow Trends: Set Them!
https://drupal-training.de
https://www.skool.com/drupal/about
Guidelines for selecting a city?
It's rather strange to say: "Ok, here are 5-6 cities, please choose until October 15th which one is the most adequate for the next European Drupalcon".
How should people vote?
All of these will lead to the same kind of decision we had until now. Definitely not a logical one (not saying a necessarily bad one).
So now all of the cities mentioned above should take out the swords and "fight" until a decision is made :-)
Copenhagen expensive?? but we still want a Con
Hi all
I saw a comment about Copenhagen being to expensive, I have to second that... yes we do rank high on the being expensive list, but we still do have cheap (very) hotels, food beer etc. you just need to know where to look... And it is not like the other suggestions are cheap alternatives. But I think in the end, price level is not the issue (guess 80% of visitors get everything paid by the company, but I don't know) in choosing venue. A growing local community and the will to put in an effort for making everyone feel welcome is the most important thing. And that is one thing that I can guarantee we have plenty of in Copenhagen, Denmark.
for 2010 I agree totally with horncologne, we need a DrupalCon i Germany, lets beat those typo3 guys... Berlin again like Paris would be the sexy choice and probably could make the venue bigger. My choice would be Germany for 2010 and Denmark for 2011...
Denmark has the highest VAT
Denmark has the highest VAT rate of the EU, (currently) the UK has the lowest VAT rate (and a rather weak currency), and (correct me if I'm wrong) Denmark doesn't have any lowered rates for food and other basic needs
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax#EU_countries
in Paris, I noticed I am by far not the only smoker, and Denmark has one of the highest (if not the highest) sumptuary tax (tobacco and alcohol), but I suppose this is a strictly personal reason
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking#Taxation
We have discussed prices in
We have discussed prices in Paris. Let's all together stop talking about any "expensiveness" of cities. Paris is one of the most expensive cities in the world and nobody complained.
(And I would personally choose city with highest Tobacco taxes...)
Expensive? And nobody complained?
In fact a lot of members (50%) of the german community missed Paris, cause it was to expensive.
Hey narres Was it the price
Hey narres
Was it the price of the Con or was it the hotels etc, or basic living expenses ?
/morten.dk king of rock
morten.dk | geek Royale
Price is important (but not only price)
If you like, that a lot of community geeks are able to attend: Price matters.
In Paris the price "shocked" some guys. Not only the ticket price. The most people knew, that there are possibilities to get cheaper tickets. That was well done by the Paris team. Thanks.
But they didn't knew how to get a really cheap hostel and expected that there are language difficulties, cause it's "known", that french are not speaking english :)
In the past DrupalCons Europe had been held as community-cons. Time changes. The business part is upcoming more important. But D.Cons shouldn't loose contact to the base, I think.
So the 2 most important things are:
yup I wasnt choked by the lag
yup I wasnt choked by the lag of english skills in paris (that shock i got a month before at vacation with the GF in paris ;) )
Actually i must say to the french defense that i got loads of help when i asked politly for it.
But no doubt about it is important to figure put what the pain level are for the "normal geeks" thats not backed up by a company, cause we dont wanna loose our base. So maybe its a good idea to figure out whats the price should be for a confrence?
Does anyone have an overview of the economy from the last 2 confrences, and if the price for the tickets matched a reasonable ticket price for our base? - and here i dont mean the dreamers who wanna have it for free ;)
/morten.dk king of rock
morten.dk | geek Royale
I second that. A lot of
I second that. A lot of people didn't attend because they found the overall costs too expensive.
Comparing Szeget to Paris minimum costs almost tripled and the current road (outsourcing everything which has to do with money like ordering the venues because the places that can be organized low cost by the local folks are not good enough for the big goals anymore) will make future Drupalcons even more expensive. I know from quite a few people that if we continue this direction people will be happy to go to local Drupalcamps where the community is the most important thing and the business side, while still important, only second. That being said I am not regretting any Euro I have spend for DC Paris.
Well, no one said growing up is easy.
Thanks Robert for stepping in here. You do a good job holding the balance between the different interests.
Not necessarily more expensive
Leaving aside the fact that some cities are more expensive than others, the ticket price doesn't need to follow an ever upward trajectory. This is very dependent on sponsorship levels. The proposed plan for future European DrupalCons has a larger role for volunteers to help feed the pipeline for sponsorships which can do a lot to offset ticket prices.
FUD
I will not go into a deep discussions about the danes tax system and why we charge 25% vat, but maybe theres a reason were considered as on of the safest countries in the world, and with the highest living rates (street beggars, ghetto's, absurd poor peopl etc) - scandinavia isnt cheep, and theres a reason for that.
if youre complaining bout the price of tobacco, well then talk with the english lads afaik they pay about 7€ for a pack, where the basic price today is arond 4.5€ in dk. And when you could by it tax free when youre traveling into the country... - im just saying (and seriously: the price of tobacco is gonna be a parameter for chosing venues - are you kidding me? )
Paris is on of the most expensive citys, and so what? - i didnt here that much complaining (ooh well the 13€ beers were a bit steep) the fod was awesome, the city is beautiful etc. if youd wanna good for the cheep the schawarma / falafel stores were plenty.
When were putting copenhagen on the map, we know that some will have concerns that it could be expensive, that is a thing were taking into consideration, and figuring out ways to come around that:
getting our own bar
finding good restaurents, and maybe cutting deals with em.
Deals with hotels (like booking 50-100 beds at a time)
even getting our very own "swedish chef"
When were deciding which citys to go to we should look at other parameters than a simple - "I would like to go to..." if thats the case well then we have holidays for the exact same reason ;) - though i must admit that im still glad i went to szegred, that was a good experience :)
/morten.dk king of rock
morten.dk | geek Royale
I second
Being a German and from a large German Drupal community I second the post of Narres about German users. That does not necessarily mean it was my reason to stay away. But I know it was for others. I think Szeged was the last Con the old way.
I do not remember who wrote it and where, but I disagree with whoever wrote it: No, not almost everybody gets paid. A lot of people do not work in a big company but are self-employed one person businesses and thus have to pay for themselves. I truely hope that those will not be left out in the future. (And if you did not see them, it might be they already stayed at home.) On the other hand it is a good thing to have more companies joining. As always, getting larger and larger is not easy, you have to find a new structure.
So pick your choice: local organizing community, language, price, venue, vacation place, ... :-)
Good luck to all of us in finding the best compromise.
P.S.
Are there really any smokers left? ;-)
. . .
------------------------------------------------
Bettina
Don't Follow Trends: Set Them!
https://drupal-training.de
https://www.skool.com/drupal/about
I vote for a rocket base
I vote for a rocket base somewhere in the near east. On entrance every 4th attendee gets a tent and every 5th a gas stove. Toilets have to be found in the woods. Everyone using a garland (sub?)theme gets reversed bungee jumped for 2 hours....
........ Paris is gone, I had a bad cold. Next US, then..? As I'm European I think every city in Europe is fine as long as I can get there without hassle, means by plain / train. As I sometimes look above and beside my screen and probably many of us are doing that, I think the city has to offer a little more than just the DrupalCon venue and a fast food restaurant. That necessarily doesn't mean that major cities are preferred but the tendencies are toward it? ...
Synergy is something essential - New-Tronic.com
a) This should be decided by
a) This should be decided by users via poll on d.org front page
b) I vote for Prague :)
I disagree.
Voting for cities on the front page of Drupal.org is the same as posting pictures of Venice, Paris and Vienna and asking people which looks like the nicest vacations. A plan for picking a city without an evaluation of the strength and track record of the local group would lead to bad results.
cool - a warmup DrupalCamp in Feb and a Con later in 2010
As we say in Berlin: "Berlin ist immer einer Reise wert" ("Berlin is always worth a journey").
You're welcome to the city with a huge range of inexpensive beer, beautiful and cheap hostels, an impressive nightlife from monday till sunday, no curfew/closing time, cheap flight-tickets to two airports and some real drupal enthusiasts. Do we need more arguments?
Greetings from Berlin
Stephan
PS. Since a while our public transport even makes announcements in English. :-)
Reality check
The reality is that we need a list of cities -- at least two, no more than six(ish) -- by October 1st so that we can get our events company onto checking costs and logistics. They will report back to the group within a few weeks and the group can use that information to select an city to go forward with. Ideally, the group will pick cities for both 2010 and 2011.
There is a huge advantage in starting the process at least two years in front of DrupalCon. In any location, we will have better access to venues and dates that suit us. This does not mean that the t-shirt design needs to be locked in 18 months out front .
yup lets get planning 2
yup lets get planning 2 years out.
even that some might think that the DA just gets all the boring stuff planned, its gonna take loads of hours to make a con really shine now that we might can expect the next ones to be around 1000 people.
I dont think its realistic to choose a city for 2011 by 1.october, but we should get that boat in the water pretty soon. and keep that rate up, so a local group knows that they are on at least 18 months out in the future. So somewhere around the 1. February that should give enough time for the local groups to put up some good suggestions
/morten.dk king of rock
morten.dk | geek Royale
Please look at this draft working proposal
http://groups.drupal.org/node/27246
The "official" nomination process for cities should start as early as Saturday. First we have to hash out the process, which is why everyone is invited to read the proposal and share your thoughts. Thanks!
Are the days of the small cities over?
Hi,
Paris was my first Drupalcon and it was great. Financially It didn't cost as much as I thought, as we (North West Drupal User Group - UK), all shared an apartment and the food at the venue was an unexpected bonus.
However, people were talking of a different 'feeling' in Szeged and I think confetti hints at this. All I'm putting in the conversation, is that although I love visiting big cities:
Does the community and the Con benefit more from being held in a smaller community?
Is it still feasible to do Drupalcon in a smaller venue/city i.e. beds, venue capacity, bars etc?
Looking at the next North American Drupalcon in SF, there is talk of 3000 attendees! could Szeged have handled that kind of volume or is it time to face the fact that Drupal is big and Drupalcon needs to be in a big city?
nb I do realise that Szeged was kind of unique in that there was a relatively large Drupal presence there.
The problem is that cons are
The problem is that cons are getting big. Every day more people is getting into drupal and is willing to go to an international drupalcon as well. So, should we go for small cons just because we want smalls cities be able to have a con? I don't think so. drupal events need to adapt as well the community is doing so at the same time is getting bigger. That's why so many drupalcamps are appearing here and there more often.
BTW, it will take some time, still, to have 3000 attendees in a european con. I bet a couple of years at least.
Robert Garrigós
Professional site: garrigos.cat
DrupalCamps to the rescue
With DrupalCamps attracting 200+ people (and likely to keep growing) a lot of the cozy and intimate feeling is moving to them. I think this is a fine development. DrupalCons by virtue of sheer size will continue to become more of a big production with big ifrastructure needs. Small to medium sized cities are not ruled out, by any means, but European capitols and major cities are also very attractive places for DrupalCon.
One more vote...
One more vote for the golden City Praha from Austria! Excellent beer!
For 2010, Germany... next?
I don't know why we are discussing. For 2010, it has already been decided that it will be a German city. Cologne or Berlin, pick one. For 2011, a few influent people already said that October 1st was too early to choose a city. The experience tells us that you need a strong local community to build a sucessful Drupalcon, even with a professional organizer on board early in the process.
Damien Tournoud
No location has been decided.
Thank you for your feedback on the draft organizing document: http://groups.drupal.org/node/27246
There it lays out a system for nominating cities. No decision has been made for 2010 or 2011, and every local group who feels motivated to host DrupalCon should read the document, participate in the discussion, and start preparing their nomination document.
To discuss the organizing document in a more "live" situation I'm organizing an IRC chat in #drupalcon:
http://groups.drupal.org/node/27432
Please note your availability here:
http://doodle.com/ehsypu6f6mhsgwst
good call
Its a good thing to take this discussion out in the open, and to get nominated 2010 + 2011 asap.
Then we dont end up with loads of work from local communities, that without a doubt will drain the "locals" in a period afterwords.
/morten.dk king of rock
morten.dk | geek Royale
Same storry ?!
Another decision without the necessary trasparenze of operations? Who made the decision when and where? What about this Drupal Conference Europe group if it is not significantly involved? What about the European Regional DrupalCon Organizers document by Robert Douglass? @ Http://groups.drupal.org/node/27246
I am really confused about what happened.
Nothing happened
I think Damien was trying to point out that Germany would be a very logical place due to the strong community. However the document you reference (still in draft form) is intended to define the working modus for making an official decision.
My Choices
Here are my choices for either 2010 or 2011:-
1st choice: Bristol, England
2nd choice: Bath, England
3rd choice: London, England
4th Choice: Cardiff, Wales
There are plenty of reasons to choose Bristol. The major one being the huge New Media and Open Source community resident in Bristol itself, another being that we have the space to put on a good show, another being that its just one train journey from most places in South England and South Wales.
Bath is a good second choice, but that's only because its not too far away from Bristol. But I'd be happy if it were in London.
Daniel John Lewis MBCS
Prepare a nomination
As is being discussed, there will be a formal nomination process (to take place within this group), starting at the latest next week: http://groups.drupal.org/node/27246
It will be very important to show that local or regional groups are ready to take on the work load associated with DrupalCon, and the nomination should provide the evidence for this.
bath & bristol
Bath and Bristol would be fun. I've lived in bath for a short while and it's a wonderful village. Also, the university, though modern, is impressive. However, pubs close at 11 so maybe Bristol as the much larger city would be more appropriate for drupalers.
If cost is a concern then i
If cost is a concern then i vote for Berlin (somewhere in Mitte) as the place for the next DrupalCon. It's a great city and probably one of the cheapest capital i've visited compare to other big capital cities in Europe.
Not only that, there are so many things to do and is full of very friendly creative people. Now, didn't we say we should attract more designers to Drupal?
The proposed venue for Berlin
The proposed venue for Berlin is at the technical university campus located in Charlottenburg, west of Tiergarten. Not exactly Mitte...