I moved from traditional employment to full-time Drupal indy consultant at the end of last year. I've learned the same initial lessons everyone has. Working for oneself is great. Specializing in Drupal is fun, rewarding and also great. Taking over responsibility for roles such as tech writer and project manager is not so fun, rewarding or great. Dealing directly with a client rather than with a tech lead, or at least a PM, is a complicated and messy business that has more to do with people skills and mind reading than with programming or design. I've also learned (the hard way) that blindly trusting clients and forgoing all of the hassle of agreements, policies and procedures is most definitely a bad idea.
These negative areas are those which could absolutely benefit from some sort of talent co-op. Perhaps this group could share it's time/ideas/resources to screen clients, establish policies, distribute projects, etc... While I'm naturally skeptical of anything involving more than 2 or 3 people, I do think it could possibly work.
However, I do not like the idea of an open project bidding arena. Just as there are an abundance of useless clients (see 'paid services' forum) there is no shortage of unqualified "developers" willing to take on any project for an impossible price. I've had to come in after the fact on a couple of occassions already in which some low budget, oversesas outfit left a client with nothing useable at all, yet was happy to take the client's money.
No doubt these same folks will come in with their $2000 bids on $15000 projects, and everyone is left screwed.
So how do we make something like this work? There must be some sort of screening process and/or reputation tracking to prevent the type of uselessness you find on guru.com and other more Drupally sites.
Harry
Comments
more thoughts
Those are valid concerns, Harry. I do like to see this market place to maintain certain quality to be useful. So I think a combined screening and rating/reputation system is needed. The initial screening should base on overall credential of the applicant so that we don’t arbitrarily throw out potential gems. I would also like to see something I will call it managed and un-managed projects:
For example, there are projects that are well defined and self-contained – usually those are small projects, where the clients can easily provide the requirements to the suppliers and deal with them directly, I envision those will be taken care of via open bidding process. Given we have the first level screening, I hope we can reach 80-90% project success rate. In fact, I think this is also something this community should strive for, i.e. continue to refine the screening/rating system to reach the targeted customer satisfactory rate.
I also find a lot of our business opportunities require skills from multiple disciplines, e.g. design, coding, system architecture and integration with 3rd party software etc. Hence I envision there will be strong needs for group projects – I will call this Managed project. So one of the services this place can provide is the client interface and project management, this type of project perhaps will be based on client affordability with a minimum of $X budget to start with. For example, the client will set a target price, then the project manager will help to pull the right people together (internal bidding?) for that price – this could include a senior Drupal consultant who provides the overall consultation on how the project should be done then there will be junior people to do the actual coding etc. I think this model will be cheaper for the client if they would have to find multiple resources by themselves, also it will be much more productive for the Drupal service providers if they can work on the pieces they enjoy the most and doing the best. Then there is also the service for ongoing maintenance and hosting etc.
Of course, this is all easy say than done. But I do feel it is possible if we have a clear goal of what we are trying to achieve. To me it is quite clear - provide quality and affordable Drupal solution to the end customers. I also hope that we don’t over engineer the market place system to start with, as I feel the market will help us to shape the process and the governance that are required.
Jenny
Here's a thought about Needs
Jenny your post made me think of the reasons I mentioned Dealmap to you. Perhaps, it might be worth considering to have a requirement for participation in your marketplace that people focus on either their needs or their resources in terms of posting jobs or seeking them. Instead of an open bidding system have something that will match needs to resources or converging needs to build project teams that fit the project so that only those that qualify are notificed. Then offer project management features for the teams to collabrate.
I think this might go along way to ensure the quality of your marketplace.
Just a thought.
Only the best!
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
missed your post
sorry, somehow I missed this one and just saw it.
yes Yvette, i was thinking the same thing when I looked at the dealmap.com again this morning. We need a similar concept for this marketplace but smaller scale perhaps.
jenny
keeping an eye out
Ya know, Jenny, I spoke with one of the guys at Dealmap about two weeks ago and they're actually developing a smaller version for another "client" project although I don't know exactly what that'll mean it did sound like something more inline with what I wanted for CF. Let's stay in touch on that I'll let you know when the other version is done and maybe you can check that out.
Only the best,
Yvette
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
No doubt these same folks
Well, I'm pretty sure same folks can come up even with $300-500 for the same project. Take a look at freelancing sites. This approach just degrading the quality and keeps out qualified developers.
As I see sometimes customers do not really understand what they are looking for. But this "overseas" guys are ready to satisfy for a little money. Even if they don't know what they do as well.
Guys, guys, guys, hold on, lemme give you an idea
Your concerns are valid and that has been a major dropping in quality of service online. Since I am an Asian and a high priced worker, I face similar competition. I have two modes of working, one I educate the client instead of saying "I can do this stuff &^%%**", secondly, I don't bid the price immediately and I only work with people who can conversate with me easily, well that can be called a working habit but how to counter your concerns.
Idea, project bidding limits, yeup. We will come up with initial limits, for example:
The workers of this idea get Peer or Project Manager Status, that is the highest status on the portal and peers can set shop, hold moderator status for a number of activities, be promoted as Service Provider heros, will have the highest rating from the initial shoot of upon completing an evaluation of work (basicall all the members evaluate eachothers work for quality), will be eligible to contribute professional advice and work on large scale US based projects from the Enterprise Center. (I am not bribing you guys, cut that out, stop grinning you!!!!!)
Bidders will be distributed geographically, we can do a division on areas of bidding they can do or not do or include the US bidders in to a separate window where only US based remote jobs can be carried out as the Buyer sets a requirement for commuting with only US based developers, if they choose Asian, they will have to pay an upfront fees for crossing the US border. (No I am not American, just being a wise dumb ass! And the Asians are not gonna like me for proposing this stuff!)
There will be limits by taking certain screenings, skype interviews and wait, I will shortly release the first cooperative development Open Source Business Model! That will help all of you clear your querries and love me for the rest of your lives!
Regards
Fouad Riaz Bajwa
FOSS Consultant
FOSSFP: Free and Open Source Software Foundation of Pakistan
Regards
Fouad Bajwa
Drupalar
http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com
Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/fouadbajwa
This just gets better
This group really is gonna provide it ALL...... ;-)
satisfaction?
In the short time I've been doing Drupal consulting, I've already run across two clients who came to me after trying to offshore drupal projects.
I'm sure there are contexts in which offshoring works well. Large, modular projects where certain components have a clearly defined API and maybe even a test suite built before the component even exists.
Though I'm sure they exist, I haven't heard any success stories from folks who sought cheap outsourcing from a company 12 timezones away.
--
Drupal tips, tricks and services
http://devbee.net/ - Effective Drupal
absolutely
I agree. There is something fundamental about sitting in front of a client and communicating with them and understanding their needs.
low price != low quality
I was looking at the 2004 global GDP report here , the number for US is 41400 and India is 620!! although GDP does not reflect the real buying power, but I think the ratio should be very similar. So sounds like if I do a $10000 website I will become a millionaire in India??
I don't agree at all that low price always equal to low quality, this may be true for tangible goods but not necessarily true on services. I personally encountered couple quite successful outsourcing arrangements, I think knowing what you want is essential, detailed planning and open communication are also key, this is a two-way process. So figuring out a system that can ask the right questions upfront and to perform smarter match of the supply and demand is more the core issue, I think.