I'm collaborating with Yvette on her Cultural Fusion project , with her permission I'm posting the following request to the group. I like to use this project as an example of "managed project services" that this marketplace can offer (as what I'm doing now), as well as a "Collaborative Drupal Project" that the to-be-developed BMOC model can be applied.
If you read thru the business and development plan that Ron and Yvette put together on the CF site, it seems as a mission impossible for any one single Drupal consulting firm today. To understand this project, first scan thru the main page http://comfusion.pbwiki.com/CulturalFusion, it is most important to grasp the mathematical concept of infinity that is being told thru the story of Hotel Infinity. I quote the version from Dave Stacy at the end of his article " The point of all this is that infinity is NOT a number, and--though there is a subject called "transfinite arithmetic"--you can't think in terms of doing ordinary arithmetic with infinity. The best way to think about it, is that infinity is a property that some sets possess. Richard Dedekind defined an infinite set to be one which could be put in one-to-one correspondence with a proper subset of itself. This is the very thing that we see drupal as a community plumbing can enable for many self-organizing network of networks that can grow into infinity.
Currently, we are most interested to figure out the time and cost required for building a prototype of CF, so that we can take it to the potential investor as a proof of concept.
The mindmap diagram on the main page illustrates how this quantum marketplace can be realized. See how many drupal building blocks are already there, and how many re-usable components that we can re-use for other projects once we have done one. I think initially this prototype only needs to demonstrate an integrated view of various pieces using Drupal as an overall integration framework, we may start by using 3rd party software to get the functions we need quickly but with an aim to make all re-usable pieces as drupal modules for ease of customization in future projects.
Any thoughts/suggestions on this project are most welcome and let me know if there is a specific area that you would like to work on, such as Skype integration, e-learning package etc. We expect only a small fund can be allocated to the prototype development, however I'm thinking if you are already familiar with some drupal modules that are applicable to this project such as e-commerce, CRM then it will be a lot easier for you to come along to help us configuring the modules according to the project descriptions. The prototype funds can then be either contributed towards building this marketplace or towards Drupal in general.
A few more pointers to help you reading the mindmap:
- the Go Game is an interactive way of engaging CF visitors using digital ART to enhance the user experience , a similar concept is here: http://www.pandanet.co.jp/English/art/samurai.html
- the dealmap site is here: http://www.dealmap.com/ we will use the site function as is for the CF project initially (unless we get better suggestions).
- the Hotel Infinity will house infinity # of projects and sponsored events, an example of such project that is going on is the ImmortalEgo project http://comfusion.pbwiki.com/ImmortalEgo
Cheers,
Jenny
Comments
Great grasp of the project
Your grasp of the project is nothing short of thrilling, Jenny. You did a great job of describing it....only one tiny correction...My Go Game is actually NOT the existing game you linked to but a piece of internet art I want to create with Ron that will work like a game of GO but offers a few added features when certain moves are made or specific move patterns emerge based on the concept of interactive internet or digital art.
We can discuss it more as the time nears to create it, but as that is the first ArtWork it seemed important to make sure it was understood. Again though I think you've done an exceptional job of explaining CF and I thank you for that :-) I actually regard working with you as one the initial collaborations so that the creation of the prototype is a key part of this creation process...akin to developing the models of a sculpture before doing the full scale deal.
I look forward to seeing what happens next.
Only the best,
Yvette
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
ah, i see
Thanks for the clarification, Yvette. Indeed I thought it was the Go Game site itself that needs to be integrated, now I see it is just a concept for something yet to be created. I have modified my text a bit on the original post, so hope it will not mislead folks.
Jenny
Looks like it might just be us
Thanks for seeing the vision, Jenny! I believe that what we've been discussing will actually be a vital key in continuing to distinguish ODN from the pack. I know when I began the search and found Neil and later you, i had been frustrated by finding people with the skill set but lacking the vision and imagination this project required. Interestingly, you found me after Ron introduced me to Neil...the lesson for me was you never know where the right person/people will come from.
What does development of this project have to offer?
Once i had some sponsorship encouragement for the project i saw from a marketing/CRM perspective that knowledge is not what creates customer advocates...it's creative engagement, strategic alliances and exceptional service. Because that is what creates business models that also build customer relationships -- that's the key to staying in business AND being happy to do so.
I think the Drupal Markeplace concept lacks a "hook" that will attract customers and the assumption seems to be that the customers will show up because the consultants are there. Of course, my project isn't the only option but i do think that needs to be considered as the business model is being developed.
Jenny, i think your idea of integrated layered Drupal networks sounds like a great approach...but it looks like it might be just us on this one ;-)
I was looking for info on object oriented programming using Drupal. Actually, i found a link for object oriented features but the link was dead. Do you have anything you can recommend to help me?
Thanks in advance.
Only the best,
Yvette
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
Hope things will pick up overtime
Hi Yvette, I can assure you that the Drupal folks are much more engaged and energetic when comes to the real implementation. Although it is good being perceived by you that ODN might be different from the pack, I hope people do not see this as a competition but seeing that we need a much more effective drupal ecosystem to make drupal more successful - hence our own individual success. As I really don't see or hope Drupal will not become yet another CMS among hundreds of others, it has its very unique characteristic and potential to bring a greater impact to the society, but to bring this impact it requires more than just a few individuals.
On the other hand, any new activity takes time to gain momentum and trust, so hope overtime we will see some changes.
w.r.t you question on Drupal and Object Oriented programming, this link explains some of the drupal features and its relation in OOP concept, hope it provides some help.
Cheers,
Jenny
Thanks!
Hi Jenny,
I hope you're right...you certainly know the community better than I so I guess I'll just have to wait and see ;-)
Thanks for your expertise and of course-- the link!
Only the best,
Yvette
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
"I am only one; but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Helen Keller
Hi
Thought I'd pop up to say hi. Currently got my head down working on some content for the marketing front-end. I'm trying to focus on ideas and language to take this forward to mass-markets. In fact would appreciate your help on this if you fancy it, communicating this to eg small businesses, requires a certain approach as you can imagine.
For me this is the main basis of our work here. Drupal is very powerful, once configured in different ways xyz it can service a wide variety of applications: Social networks, private collaborations, Wiki knowledge base etc. With the world currently going daft for Web 2.0 etc. the opportunity is therefore huge.
The challenge/opportunity is that Drupal is like getting a DIY kit of parts, but with no instructions. And also like getting a jigsaw with a few key pieces missing. If you're not technically quite adept with it, it can be a very difficult platform/environment to master, and so while it's not exactly sexy, the Drupal marketplace certainly has a clear market need. End-users will want the applications it can enable, not the DIY process, and with potential customers and $$ to spend, we're still finding it tricky to id suppliers who can help fill that gap with us, so that's the kind of motivation we're approaching this with.
Cheers, Neil.
Exactly
Neil wrote:
"End-users will want the applications it can enable, not the DIY process"
I agree.
So
We need to define the right way of cutting out the pieces of the puzzle - not just the modules and sets of functionality - and not just the basic standard configurations for site types. But the sets of competencies and skills that are needed for a succesful project.
If a marketplace is to function you should be able to "shop" for a team which would cover the full range of needed competencies.
What if I could say: I can provide Project Management, Information Architecture, Interaction Design, Communications Consulting etc (which I can - basically) - and I'm looking for Graphic Design/theming, Programming, Testing etc. skille?
What If a marketplace could set up teams? Maintain teams?
Some of the marketplaces today are useless to me if I want to sell Information Architecture skills, because it doesn't exist. Furthermore I can't sell my full set of skills to a project - because the employer would not be able to see that easily.
As an employer looking for skill sets to match and complement mine (I'm a Free Agent) - I can't really do that.
When working on complex projects pushing the envelope - you don't often fit into old models of structure and categories. I suggest that we look into ways to deal with that problem. Drupal projects will increasingly be bigger and more advanced, and they will be on the bleeding edge of the next gen web.
So it is important in my opinion.
Gunnar Langemark
www.langemark.com
Denmark
Gunnar Langemark
Denmark
Exactly
How to quickly assemble a "team" with multi discipline expertises and do this in an economic way is exactly the challenge for large Drupal projects, also many talent that are required to make a successful Drupal project is not something visible or understood by most of the clients. There is a lot of education required and I think the most effective way for us - the Drupal community - is to make this as a production process/assembly line so we get the process work out once and to be used by many, as well as having a readily available resource pool that people can tap into.
segmentation
From the sales side of things, I think this is the relatively easy part. There's a wide number of different product areas where there is healthy demand that can be aligned with. A good example is the Basecamp app. Always a big market need for basic project collaboration, and they've positioned against that well. Growing quickly is end user awareness and demand for Wiki, so similarly there is still opportunity for a product solution there. You can also start with industry markets, e.g. publishing, and work back from there to define very specific customer solutions.
I think the big potential for Drupal is that the base platform can be configured to achieve any of these, but of course lots more too because other modules/configs can be factored in. So you can build a superior wiki product, a superior basecamp etc., and re-use into verticalised solutions.
The challenge I find is the basics. It seems so much effort to get a basic combination of platform/modules working, each area always seems 90% complete and the lack of professional themes seems to have been an outstanding issue for some time now. Exactly the type of gaps that a more organised commercial effort could easily tackle imho.
Neil.
I have it already
Neil
Funny
I have build a superior wiki/blog tool - superior to basecamp.
I'm pitching a couple of print mags and a daily newspaper right now.
I'm building a couple of other "special platform" types of installations with a couple of teams here in Denmark.
What I was trying to say though - was that the marketplace should be able to handle sets of competencies that are not so "run of the mill"
I find that the challenge is to get the right set of competencies to work together - not to define the specs of a system and build it. (perhaps it's because that's what I've been doing for ages...)
Gunnar Langemark
www.langemark.com
Denmark
Gunnar Langemark
Denmark
ooooohhh
that's interesting.
agreed. For open, complex work, I think it's more about simple clustering of expertise rather than transactional automation. In fact I just sent a mail to Jenny about how Organic Groups can be used for this. In addition the other core mechanic of skills-based projects is accreditation, ie how do you know the person is qualified to skill level X? What is skill level X?
For that you need an issuing authority, and equip the user with the ability to do stuff based on the credentials, including displaying them within a marketplace. So you need the ability to define authorities and for them to work in some form to endorse trade. I like Drupal because it can do this in a very light manner with people stuff in mind. You can throw a bunch of the right people together and they'll figure it out, and can then post a regular flow of blogs to advertise their available expertise etc.
Yeah yeah, when I figure that one out I'll write the book and retire..... ;-)
Cheers, Neil.
Bragging works
Hi Neil
Right! Bragging works!
I'm working with four other guys on a tool for internal innovation and knowledge discovery in corporations. What we have so far is a tool which will let you create wikipages by clicking an icon on the top bar of the tiny wysiwig editor and a few other pop-and-sizzle features. We're pitching it to large companies here in Denmark and have landed a handfull of clients now. Unfortunately it is a tool meant for intranet work, so I can't direct you to a demo right now.
(BTW - I never understood the buzz about Basecamp - it's a terrible tool)
I'll write a chapter of your book - if you will!
;-)
Gunnar Langemark
www.langemark.com
Denmark
Gunnar Langemark
Denmark
right
Squeeky wheel gets the oil and all that.... ;-)
UI and simplicity is the key factor. ie it looks cool and you create 'task' items that show up in a calendar.
In Scotland, we have a phrase called 'all fur coat and no knickers', meaning superficially it looks great but there is no substance. Basecamp is all fur coat and no knickers, Drupal is all knickers and no fur coat. :-D
Hence:
Yes please pop-and-sizzle all round. The intranet KM stuff is cool, but the really fun stuff is an app with 000's of users you sell to Google... Hey, an intranet is just a social network you're not invited to.... ;-)
N.
virtual team/partnership
I have done a bit searching to see if there is any existing technologies that can help us to tackle the virtual team challenge for large projects.
Not much out there, but came across an EU project called OPAL (Online PArtnership Lens) that is very close to the needs I think, wondering if anyone has any insights to it? The OPAL project site is full of resources, have not gone thru them all yet ...
Excellent presentation Jenny
One year after your posting, the summary is still beyond reality. Jenny you pictured something that is yet to be established - the Hotel Infinity project. Awesome that you can look so far ahead into the future. And Yvette, what a super woman you are, to be able to share your essence - infinity - in a dialogue with Jenny such that Jenny could write this in above summary. Excellent !
From my perspective, which is totally different from Yvette's perspective (hence the quality of collaboration - a third dimension shining thru in each single one of many dialogues over the last two years or so), the comfusion website is a collection of words from many metaphoric languages. Yvette's favourite language is the language of the SoulFood cook, sharing recipes where no single ingredient remains unchanged.
Some other metaphoric languages included in the comfusion.pbwiki.com website are :
- Business - the various words used in Dealmaking, in Sales, in Production, in Distribution and so on;
- Art - mainly from the artist's perspective
- Attention - my own theory of attention, including attention proverbs such as "children express what parents repress" (from Go proverbs, often used in Go game comments to explain best practises to newbies)
- Event - perspectives from the event handler (what would an event handler use as "ingredients" in her production proces of "cooking" an event? ) and perhaps from the artist showing a project gallery
Hope this helps.
Best regards, Ron
Ronald Wopereis
http://www.whatisattention.org
Dark matter is free attention. The more we free our attention, the more our universe and our cosmos expands.
Oh and ofcourse ...
Best regards, Ron
Dark matter is free attention. The more we free our attention, the more our universe and our cosmos expands.
This is wonderful
A flow of thoughts thru my fingers on to the keyboard, like the guitar player following my instrument.
MetaMap is now Cross Over (my language) ;
MetaMap is now Convergence (Yvette's language) ;
Some more examples of how comfusion works:
- The Artist (domain: Art) is the Cook in the SoulFood tradition.
Cross Over is when you look at Wikipedia, for example, and you see one article in English, then you select the same article in another language, let's take German. What happens then is that the German article is NOT an exact translation of the English article.
The same holds for Cross Overs in comfusion. An artist is NOT the same as a cook, they share something from the perspective of a certain context, such as creating an artwork / creating a meal.
When Yvette uses Convergence where i use CrossOver, we mean the same underlying feeling of bridging two domains. Again, the perspective for her is different from mine - as we found in one of our dialogues - because i consider the shared actions of Artist and Cook, while she considers perhaps their shared passion.
It's hard to tell what another person really experiences. Cultural Fusion is about exploring all these and other facets of this one crazy diamond called Humanity.
Best regards, Ron
Dark matter is free attention. The more we free our attention, the more our universe and our cosmos expands.