Books page policy

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jcnventura's picture

The Drupal books page currently lists all known published books about Drupal 6.x and 7.x.

As stated in that page, the Drupal Association gets some referral fees from sales on Amazon.com or from Packt Publishing sales (the DA gets more from Packt, so all their books are not linked to amazon). This has some shortcomings, among others the fact that those links are only useful to US-based visitors, but the solution for that would involve radically changing something in the way the page is built so that it could display an appropriate link related to the browser-provided or user-profile-specified location. However, that's not my question here (even though I'd love to discuss and participate in the solution for that).

The question I wanted to pose on this page is about which books get included on that list. As you know, it's now VERY easy for Joe Schmuck to write a few pages about Drupal, create a PDF out of that and send it to a self-publisher that in turn will list that in Amazon. There are already books like that for Drupal 6, and I expect more will show up for Drupal 7.

I've setup a policy that's written in a child page (http://drupal.org/node/383388), that self-published books shall only be accepted in the main list if proof of a technical review process can be provided (hopefully before "print", but OK afterwards).

The fact is that there lies the major service that a company like Packt or Apress provide: an editing process. Without that process, documents are usually full of typos and non-sensical statements.

As in any rule, there's a few exceptional cases:
1. Johan Falk's book Drupal 7: the Essentials was never technically reviewed as the rush to have it printed was one of the reasons why nodeOne decided to publish it themselves. I've spoken with Johan and he agrees that applying the existing policy, his book should NOT be on the list.
2. Dorien Herremans's book Drupal 6: Ultimate Community Site Guide which I've read seems to be a good enough book, but I don't want to put myself in the position of judge and executor, so my review doesn't count to put her book on the page.
3. Timi Ogunjobi's book Drupal 6 Site Blueprints is a terrible book that IS on the list, because for some reason Packt decided to publish it. He has a couple of self-published books that are even worse and their exclusion is one of the reasons why I've setup that policy in the first place.

The problem I have is that the policy is designed to prevent lower-quality works from being given a spot in a highly-placed search result on Drupal books, but a) it's not a perfect filter, as normal publishers sometimes disable their own quality filters; and b) it's actually keeping good quality books out.

So, my question to this group is what policy could be followed that:
a) I or who ever updates the page is not accused of denying income to a book author based on subjective arguments,
b) Does not rely on irrealistic expectations that the community will provide an effort to filter out the junk.

One possibility would rely on listing books with an amazon customer review average of more than 3 or 4. The problem with that one is that it's easy to game and changes over time, introducing maintainability issues.

Sorry for the long text.

João Ventura

Comments

How about book sales data?

greggles's picture

How about book sales data? This is relatively easy to get from Amazon even for self-published (i.e. Kindle books).

We can sort books by most popular which has two benefits:

  1. The lowest popularity books would get excluded or at least moved to the bottom of the list
  2. The most popular books at the top of the list are the ones that will have the best click-through-rate and purchase-rate which means the most money for the Association

The only drawback in my mind is that this creates a feedback loop, it's on top of the list because it's popular in sales. It's popular in sales because it's on top of the list... But I don't think our referral traffic is strong enough to make that kind of impact.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Sales rank?

jcnventura's picture

Hello, greggles,

Thanks for your input.. First of all, I'd like to clear a misconception: self-published isn't synonymous with Kindle books, Johan Falk's book is paper-only (he has donated it to drupal.org, so it will be a d.o handbook one of these days).

Second, unfortunately, the sales data is not public info, except for the "Amazon Best Sellers Rank". This is an index that's updated hourly(?) and is a ratio of sales / time. So, the index would decrease over time. As an illustration, the "Pro Drupal Development" books are #2.2M (1st ed), #51K (2ed) and #28K (3ed). I am pretty sure the 2nd edition sold more books than the 3rd, but it has been in print a lot longer.

Maybe this is actually what we need, as it is both an indicator of a book's popularity and freshness. The problem is that by its nature, it needs to be an automated process.. I can imagine a module that would scrape Amazon every day or so, and generate the current info, being passed the list of books to process by an operator (to filter out all the self-published + Wikipedia book on demand junk that is out there).

Question is, do we need that? I actually like that the list is sorted by release date.. It gives new books a chance to shine, except if you have the bad luck of being published at the same time as a lot of other books (such as last year's December sprint in which 6 Drupal books were published, in anticipation of D7's release).

However, you're right in that it would relegate the shtt books to the bottom of the list.

Right, I just meant that

greggles's picture

Right, I just meant that someone who is self-published and who wants to be included on this list could go through the kindle for publishers process to get their book included into the market. I recognize that there are other ways to self publish than kindle.

By sales "data" I meant relative indicator of sales volume, i.e. yes, the sales rank. I think the PDD book shows how the 3rd edition should be included near the top of the list while the first edition should be excluded.

I guess I didn't do a very good job being precise in my language, but it seems like in the end we agree it's a reasonable idea ;)

I think we could make two lists either on tabs or next to each other: one sorted by publish date and one sorted by sales rank. This also helps solve the problem of not promoting high quality self-published items if they are not on Kindle.

Regarding automation, that would seem ideal but I think a periodic update (monthly?) would help bring some stability to the page. The sales rank numbers can fluctuate quite a bit.

Best seller list

jcnventura's picture

So the plan would be to generate it offline, and then copy+paste in d.o.. I'm already doing that with the current one, so it's not hard :)

However, I starting to think that this should be a Views-generated page, so that there's no need to generate two versions of the same page, but rather a view sorted out differently.. This opens a whole new can of worms in that we would need a real_book content type to hold the necessary fields.. In the meantime, I'll try to come up with a Sales Rank scraper and see how hard it is to manage it. Then we can decide if we like it.

BTW, PDD 1st edition is not on that list anymore, as the list was purged of Drupal 4 and 5 books a while ago. The plan is to purge it of Drupal 6 books when D8 is released, and so on.

João

PS: And greggles, your "Cracking Drupal" book at #578954 would probably be dropped from the "Best seller" list also.. :) You can take some confort that Tom Canavan's "CMS Security Handbook" that was released recently is only slightly ahead of yours at #571193.

I'm mostly fine with my book

greggles's picture

I'm mostly fine with my book being dropped from a best seller's list (though it is the only book in its category, so we may just need a lot of filters).

It is ranked 16th among books with Drupal in the titlekeywords - how big of a best seller list were you planning?

Probably not

jcnventura's picture

Tell you the truth, I didn't compile Sales Rank for all of them yet, so that was mostly a guess. To answer your question, I think that a best-seller list should be around 25 books (maybe 40 to make it a Top 40)..

That was just me being mean, actually. It happens sometimes, nothing personal :)

Sales rank October 3rd

jcnventura's picture

Data collected today:

1 The Definitive Guide to Drupal 7 9971
2 Pro Drupal 7 Development (Expert's Voice in Open Source) 57424
3 Pro Drupal Development, Second Edition 63214
4 Drupal For Dummies 71763
5 Sams Teach Yourself Drupal in 24 Hours 72986
6 Drupal For Dummies (For Dummies (Computer/Tech)) 74183
7 Drupal 7 Module Development 87828
8 Using Drupal 100287
9 Drupal's Building Blocks: Quickly Building Web Sites with CCK, Views, and Panels 102715
10 Beginning Drupal (Wrox Programmer to Programmer) 191992
11 Beginning Drupal 7 217665
12 Professional Mobile Web Development with WordPress, Joomla! and Drupal (Wrox Programmer to Programmer) 245450
13 Drupal: The Guide to Planning and Building Websites 285471
14 Front End Drupal: Designing, Theming, Scripting 292429
15 Foundation Drupal 7: Learn How to Use the Drupal Framework to Quickly Build Feature-rich Websites 349690
16 Drupal User's Guide: Building and Administering a Successful Drupal-Powered Web Site 363152
17 Drupal 7 Primer: Creating CMS-Based Websites: A Guide for Beginners 378168
18 Drupal 7 Fields/CCK Beginner's Guide 385955
19 Drupal E-commerce with Ubercart 2.x 394357
20 Crafting Digital Media: Audacity, Blender, Drupal, GIMP, Scribus, and Other Open Source Tools (Expert's Voice in Open Source) 406662
21 CMS Security Handbook: The Comprehensive Guide for WordPress, Joomla, Drupal, and Plone 422773
22 Drupal 7 Themes 428089
23 Learning Drupal 6 Module Development: A practical tutorial for creating your first Drupal 6 modules with PHP 430346
24 Cracking Drupal: A Drop in the Bucket 443591
25 Drupal 7: Visual QuickStart Guide 464249

As expected, the 1112-page Def Guide to D7 is top, with the PDD 3rd and 2nd editions following. Also a very strong show for Drupal for Dummies in #4 (1st ed) and #6 (2nd ed). And Cracking Drupal just made it past the post at #24.

Thanks for your input.. First

gdd's picture

Thanks for your input.. First of all, I'd like to clear a misconception: self-published isn't synonymous with Kindle books, Johan Falk's book is paper-only (he has donated it to drupal.org, so it will be a d.o handbook one of these days).

Johan's book is also not self-published, it was published by StudentLitteratur in Sweden. He made an arrangement with them to be able to donate the text to drupal.org.

From what Johan told me, that

jcnventura's picture

From what Johan told me, that is true for the Swedish version of the book, nobody reviewed the English translation of the book.. But maybe I got it wrong...

If we were to open the book list to non-English books then that version of the book applies directly (as do some German, French and Spanish books that I know of).

We should really allow non-English books...

LoMo's picture

If we were to open the book list to non-English books then that version of the book applies directly (as do some German, French and Spanish books that I know of).

And I do think that adding a "language" selector and allowing non-English books in the list would be good. There are many in the Drupal community for whom English is not their mother tongue, and I'm sure that a lot of them would like to know what books are available in French, German, Italian... whatever, as long as the publication quality is high.

About me:
  • Drupal evangelist
  • (Former) regular author of the Cocomore Drupal Blog
  • Systems tester / QA automation, Kairion GmbH / freelance

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