The discussion on locations has become very broad and covers a wide range of topics and issues. It is very useful and enlightening. It has made it clear that we need to agree on a process for determining Asia-Pacific DrupalCon locations before we can agree on a location. It has also uncovered a number of factors that need to be evaluated and considered in order to properly evaluate nominations for host cities.
So what should the process be?
- What roles and/or groups should be formed with which titles and responsibilities?
- Which group/role should be responsible for the final decision & recommendation to the Drupal Association?
- Which group/role should be the primary contact with the Drupal Association?
- How do we decide which individuals fill each role and are part of each group?
- How can we monitor the effectiveness of the process and ensure it fairly considers as many of the Drupal communities in the region as possible?
I think I process should be modeled after the European Regional DrupalCon Organizers document, but place more emphasis on research of accessibility for host cities and changing the host city to vastly different regions each time. E.g. not twice in a row in the same part of the Asia-Pacific region. Regions of Asia-Pacific might be defined loosely as;
- Australasia (NZ, Australia, South Pacific)
- SE Asia (South of China & East of Myanmar)
- North Asia (China, Korea, Japan)
- West Asia (West of Myanmar, India and neighbouring nations, possibly the Middle East)
Comments
Experienced Europe, pioneering Asia-Pacific
The European document has good points indeed, but in my opinion Asia-Pacific needs something more for a start. There have been several DrupalCons in Europe already, and everybody is expecting the next one. On the other hand, I'm under the impression that most Drupal users in Asia-Pacific don't yet know there is going to be a DrupalCon in the region, and most local groups don't yet know about this organising group.
So, Europe doesn't need it, but for Asia-Pacific I think the first step would be to inform the local groups. For example, with an announcement or call for proposals, at least in one group per country, in order to begin the communication with them that several of us commented before as an important point.
Juan, Good points. I agree
Juan, Good points. I agree the process should include outreach to all local user groups. Additionally, I think that outreach should come from the leaders of those groups and in their local language. So perhaps the process needs to include how the local user group leaders are contacted, and what their responsibilities are, and how messages are broadcast to those leaders.
Bevan/
Communicating with the local groups
I think local group managers are moderators rather than leaders. They could be contacted via personal contact form saying that, if they don't object, an announcement is going to be posted on the local groups. If they say OK or don't reply (some seem very busy), then I think you can post it in English, with a note suggesting that a translation of the announcement to the local language would be very welcome.
There is now a bug in the user profiles at groups.drupal.org ("access denied" when trying to view a profile on gdo), but people can be contacted via their personal contact forms at drupal.org, instead of groups.drupal.org. I guess it's probably easier for admins.
Asia-Pacific groups
I'm thinking, since managers are just moderators, maybe this is more simple in reality, and a short information announcement (about the Drupal Association events plan for Asia-Pacific) could be posted directly on the local groups for a start.
In this way, all details and further steps -such as process for choosing a location- can be then discussed on this organising group with managers and all those interested.
Related info:
India, English and 2 types of DrupalCons
First I'd like to note that if a DrupalCon was attempted in India, due to Drupaler numbers in that country, things would most likely need to be less creative that what we're currently trying to figure out. With the numbers they have, it almost seems they can put it on cruise control if they wanted, and do a DrupalCon in English or just Hindi. I think some insights can be gained from thinking about an event in India. And maybe this group could start to contact someone in each of the countries.
Another point I'd like to mention is, without the DrupalCon being hosted mainly in English, there is not much reason for anyone other than someone who speaks the local language to attend.
Based on the previous discussions as well, I think there should be TWO KINDS of DrupalCons being promoted in the Asia-Pacific region, and I think this makes sense. One type being a local language one, for example a DrupalCon in Tokyo would be mostly in Japanese, with some translators attending for presentations from celebrity English speaking Drupalers if they attend (if hundreds are going to attend, then a professional translator should be there, but for a couple dozen attendees I think someone who's good at translation is fine). And the other DrupalCon type being a English driven let's get together in the region kind of DrupalCon, and market Drupal in that country while we're at it (acceleration method).
Initially I was under the impression that we were trying to forge a structure for the second International DrupalCon type, that includes everyone having to travel a fair amount of distance, then I realized that local interests in Drupal where the DrupalCon would be held was a factor. If local interests were the main critieria in selecting a location it would be India. Then the question comes up, why not India? If we all wanted to travel similar distances and boost some Drupal interests in a high-tech market, get good food, not have to worry about water quality or get blasted.. and not have to worry much about travel inconveniences including prices I'd say Taiwan (sorry, just mentioning it again as an example). Indonesia seems to have a fairly large Drupal community and seems right smack in the middle of Australia, India and Japan, but I have my reasons why I wouldn't travel there just casually without planning.
I also thought that the local language DrupalCons could, and maybe should be left for local groups to mainly work out, or maybe the Asia-Pacific group could give groups in that country a nudge or offer some form of support.
Best regards,
Scott Fujikawa
DrupalCons, DrupalCamps, meetups
About the two kinds of DrupalCons (local and international), the local events aren't called DrupalCon -or Drupal Conference-, they have other names like DrupalCamp or meetup. Local events are locally organised and usually smaller than DrupalCons, which have hundreds of attendees lately. DrupalCons in Asia-Pacific are going to be, for now, biennial international events, surely mainly in English but also, probably, with translations from/to other languages.
Local interest in Drupal is only one of the many factors for an event. For example, if there is local interest, usually more sponsors are available, and usually the real size of the Drupal community is larger (to help organising the event). But there are many other points to consider, not only these.
For more details, we can see the Events section, the Drupal Event Organization group, the Events calendar, the Regional event organizing groups, some of the Drupal meetup groups, etc.
About Taiwan, there seems to be much interest in Drupal, like in Japan, Thailand, China (including Hong Kong), Indonesia, and other countries.
First of all
I think we'd better determine
, because every other conclusions must change depending on the answers to the questions above.
Aki Iwata
FOREST & trees
Purpose and attendees
Aki Iwata wrote:
See for example the latest Drupal Conference website (DrupalCon Paris 2009). The subtitle says:
"The Drupal event that connects hundreds of developers, designers, builders, and IT managers."
Drupal events facilitate exchange of information, cooperation, team work, contacts, etc. They are open to all the Drupal community, in fact to all those interested. Mostly, attendees are intermediate users (webmasters, etc.) and many advanced developers (programmers, etc.) who use Drupal in their daily work. Apart from the large speeches, people work in small groups during the conference for different purposes and tasks (Drupal development, new techniques, etc.).
Before, DrupalCons were more targeted to developers. Now, they are trying to also attract designers, for example.
language challenges and market status
I would like to note the obvious but DrupalCon's in Europe and America, the goal being flat out connecting people makes sense only because many Europeans are known to speak English sometimes speaking multiple languages, and that Drupal is well established within those markets.
In Asia, I don't think it can be as simply put as "we're gonna have a huge event so that people can connect for fun and business" because compared to Europe, its not as a standard procedure for most Asians to speak with other Asians from other countries.
I'll take a pass on explaining further why, and get right to the point. One thing is clear, due to language challenges and market status of Drupal in Asia and each of the countries, there will be things that need to be specially addressed. And that might even include having to plan uniquely for each country.
Some events may have the goals to promote Drupal in a country and gather Drupalers from other countries who most likely speak English, some events might have a English function attached to the big main function to compliment what's already there (e.g. inviting English speakers).
If appropriate adjustments can't be made, a DrupalCon in Asia will end up with locals just connecting up (making it a DrupalCamp), with foreigners just standing around wondering who else speaks English, and wishing for some presentations to be done in English. If the entire event was done in English, the event might be hosting towards thousands of local Drupalers who wished the event was done more in their local language.
Picking 2-3 countries and doing a simulation on how to go about doing a DrupalCon in that country might move these discussions forward. Or we could start to categorize the countries into certain groups based on number of Drupalers, likelyhood of those Drupalers speaking English, status of Drupal market in that country, or even discuss how to categorize countries and then attempt to plan a DrupalCon identifying what needs to be done.
Question.. is a small attendance DrupalCon acceptable, in the name of promotion and connecting?
Drupal events in Asia-Pacific (proposed wiki page)
For choosing a Drupal conference location, one of the points to consider is whether and how local events are held, which can also be useful as previous experience to organise a larger event.
I would suggest opening a wiki page listing past and future Drupal events in Asia-Pacific. The information on each event can be published in the local groups or sites, and just links would be added by contributors to the wiki page on this group.
If that wiki started, I would be glad to add a few links to Drupal events in the region.
Going ahead?
Should we go ahead with the events wiki? In my opinion, previous smaller events and meetings is something to take into account when planning a conference. Also, it could stimulate exchange of experiences, best practices, etc., between local groups.
If no one objects, I think any of us can open that collaborative wiki, for example tomorrow.
Update: The new wiki Drupal events in Asia-Pacific has just been opened.
DrupalCon - a "pacific" perspective
Hi all, This is Lynnold from Drupal Pacifica. Our membership is small but I hope it will grow.
I have personally been searching for an opportunity like this since I first started using Drupal. I can foresee growth in Drupal especially here in the Solomon Islands and perhaps in the rest of the Pacific. Conferences that I have attended seem to point to Joomla's popularity in these parts of the world. I am perhaps a solo, 1 men effort in changing that.
Location: A large number of Pacific Islanders may find it difficult to attend a DrupalCon that might occur in Asia (at least from my experience) therefore I am hoping that the idea for DrupalCon in Asia/Pacific will seriously consider a central location.
Content: Active users in the Pacific are still grappling with the basic concepts of Drupal but there is interest and if a DrupalCon was organized with focus on the needs of all in the region, it would be very helpful.
Opportunities: The Pacific Chapter of the Internet Society (PICISOC) recognizes the difficulties that Pacific Island "geeks" have in attending IT conferences that might otherwise be very useful. Therefore it has established with the assistance of InternetNZ the Pacific Internet Partners (PIP) Fellowship which has resulted in many Pacific Islanders getting an opportunity to participate in PICISOC conferences. PIP, however, may soon end its fellowship programme. Perhaps some consideration should be given to organizing such opportunities for Pacific Islanders who otherwise will still find it difficult to attend although it may be held in a central location. DrupalCon in Paris floated the CloseTheGap Fellowship but I can personally testify to the fact that it failed to reach right down into the Pacific to close that gap.
Those are my thoughts in the interim.
Let's focus on the process alone in this thread
Hey, let's focus on the process for choosing a location in this thread. Otherwise, we cannot reach a meaningful conclusion about the topic. We can always create new threads for other topics when we want to discuss about something else.
Aki Iwata
FOREST & trees
Possible process for choosing a location
A possible process is the following, inspired by the European procedure. The first step would be done in the Asia-Pacific local groups -since Drupal conferences are new in the region-, and the rest of steps in this organising group:
sounds like a plan.
sounds like a plan.
Any ideas how things should proceed in Step 1. ?
maybe detail steps? Like does this group need to talk to Drupal Association to formalize something first before contacting local groups? If something needs to be formalized what is it? I believe something that touches this subject has come up at the previous discussion, but I'm not exactly sure what it's about, like the designated non-profit group topic.
If an already established non-profit group is designated for DrupalCon in Asia-Pacific, can it function accordingly to what we can agree on, as I know most of us in this discussion do not belong to any such group. What do we need to do in this area?
Steps of the process
Fuji wrote:
Well, for example there has been a similar announcement from the European DrupalCon group to the European groups. They did it as a courtesy, they don't need it since that annual DrupalCon is well-known.
In the case of Asia-Pacific, an announcement to the local groups would be a necessity instead, and as a first step, since this is a completely new event for the region, and I think most members are not yet informed.
It would be just a short information announcement, and the rest of steps can be done on this organising group. It could be something so simple as this, for example (first just the text, without link codes):
Upcoming DrupalCon in Asia-Pacific
The new Events Plan of the Drupal Association (see also Help build future DrupalCons) includes a biennial international Drupal Conference (DrupalCon) to be held in the Asia-Pacific region. Location and dates for the first conference are yet to be agreed on.
For further discussion and organisation, please visit the DrupalCon Asia-Pacific Regional Organising Group. Thank you.
This example with the link codes:
Upcoming DrupalCon in Asia-Pacific
The new <a href="http://association.drupal.org/node/342">Events Plan</a> of the Drupal Association (see also <a href="http://drupal.org/node/574502">Help build future DrupalCons</a>) includes a biennial international Drupal Conference (DrupalCon) to be held in the Asia-Pacific region. Location and dates for the first conference are yet to be agreed on.
For further discussion and organisation, please visit the <a href="http://groups.drupal.org/drupalcon-asiapacific-regional-organising-group">DrupalCon Asia-Pacific Regional Organising Group</a>. Thank you.
If we agree on posting an information announcement, the only problem is that there are 36 Asia-Pacific local groups now. However, the European group posted its announcement to 51 groups, I think.
Anyway, I hope a volunteer can do it after we agree. In my case, I can't participate much from now on, since it seems I'm starting to be really busy with some community sites I administer, and I'm just a regular visitor to Asia-Pacific, living in the region during only one month each year or so. I hope your work will go very well.
About cooperation with the Drupal Association, I think Ryan Cross, the manager of this group, is or will be probably in contact with Cary Gordon, the Director of Events. And Bevan Rudge is a member of the Association. Surely there are other Association members living in Asia-Pacific, like for example one serving in the Board of Directors who lives in China, if I recall correctly. Ryan and Bevan are also busy organising other Drupal events in Australia and New Zealand, but I think they will be a good link between this group and the Association.
For all the details, steps, etc., I think Bevan's idea of following the European model, modifying it when necessary, is excellent. (See his initial post on this thread, "Process for choosing a location").
My apologies for the
My apologies for the oversight.
Similar to Juan's suggestion, I suggest a bottom up approach in which each local Drupal group decides to submit an expression of interest and in the event where there are more than 1 interest each local group should be allowed to "bid" for rights to host a DrupalCon. The finalists are determined by "a board" from this group but the final host is determined by voting. Each local group will have equal voting rights or weighted votes according to membership or other factors.
++ I agree... Lets get some
++ I agree...
Lets get some tangible proposals on the table about where and who has the capacity to host the event...
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
Juan; Thanks for creating
Juan; Thanks for creating the events wiki. This is a useful resource, but will be difficult to maintain. I wonder if there's a way that GDO groups can be tagged with the region so that a view might agregate all the events of groups tagged "Asia-Pacific".
Clarification; I am only an Individual Member of the Drupal Association – like hundreds or thousands of other Drupal developers and shops. I am not part of the DA staff and do not attend DA meetings.
I think the process Juan outlined above is a good start. I don't think it's necessary to invite all groups to take part in discussion about processes (Step 1). I agree that it's necessary to invite them to submit nominations (not proposals) though, and for those that nominate, to be involved in the review process.
Lynnold; I'm sorry that you couldn't make it to DrupalCon Paris and that you felt left out by the scholarship fund. I'm sure that most DrupalCons will continue some sort of scholarship programme like that. An Asia-Pacific DrupalCon would be more likely to award scholarships to attendees from Pacific Islands than DrupalCon Europe is – just as DrupalCon Europe is more likely to award scholarships to attendees from the European region. Having said that – there are many economically disadvantaged nations in both the Asia and Pacific regions.
I suspect Internet NZ would be interested in sponsoring a DrupalCon Asia Pacific.
Juan; Where are you from? Where do you normally reside? What part of Asia-Pacific do you usually live in each year?
Btw; I normally live in Christchurch, New Zealand, but am in Thailand till Christmas Eve.
Bevan/
Here, there and everywhere...
Bevan wrote:
Well, in the last seven years, we live just one month each year or so with family in Japan. When we have time, we will also visit family in Australia and North America, and friends in India. We normally live in Spain, Europe, but I administer a couple of community sites (that are keeping me extremely busy now) where most members are from Latin America and North America, respectively. It's a small world.
I think we are reaching
I think we are reaching concensus here, but progress is being stifled by lake of decisions and authority to make decisions. I think in order to make decisions we need to begin to formalise this group and delegate tasks, decisions, and some responsibilities. What is the best way to do this? Read more.
Bevan/
Safety
I have read through the above posts kind of fast.
One point I would like to point out is safety for travelers in the Asia Pacific area. This is something that the western DrupalCons don't have to consider as much, but we should. This is the only thing I thought of right away when reading through all of this. When we think about this, we should put ourselves in a cross culture mindset and think about what it is like for many different races with many different life views to come together in one place. Also having a female view would be good to think about too. I know some countries can be less daunting for a woman traveling alone than others in this area of the world.
I hope to read through all this more and be able to help things along.
Regards,
Shaun