Not exactly what i said in the title; but just thought i would repeat a post i made in the CK issue queue as i have been hounded to add support for this editor into the Autosave project. Main reason for posting was that possibly the W-API guys would correct comments i make "against" their module in case i have misspoken.
==========
i was pretty firm on the idea of not supporting 10+ JS editors mostly because my client didn't use any of them (we were using Tiny) and the w-api guys ensured me this was the future of js editors. seemed to make sense as it is clearly the right way to go.. clearly!!
however w-api seems to have dropped the ball in not being able to keep w-api feature rich enough or supported enough to do what it has been claiming. i think it has a few key issues (although not been keeping track; perhaps some of these have been solved):
- too complex to set up
- no mechanism to support textareas which do not have input formats assigned to them (i.e. most std admin text areas)
- not keeping api up to date with simple patches like the one jide provided to allow AS to work
so.. that all being said.. i don't want to support the slew of js editors out there.. but i will reconsider committing this patch to add on support for CK (but won't test and if anyone reports it breaks anything in AS.. well.. out it goes.. )
=============
let the stone throwing begin...
Comments
Sorry, but...
iam not a big fan of sun`s way to maintain modules, but well, this goes far beyond fair.
W-API is a huge module and it needs a heck of a work. It is an enormous step i have never seen in every project. They already support a lot of editors to actually combine all the different tastes people have.
You like CK? I also like it - but that still is not "the trueth" for all our there. Different usecases, different clients, different needs - different aspects.
Writing extensions for every of those editors is pain - real pain. Did you ever did that? Only a realy smal number of people are writing those editor plugins - and those people are seperated in even smaller groups by their editor of choice.
And now you come across all this is kind of throw stones at a project which deals exactly with that issue. Uniting all of those plugin writers which do the work for REAL editor integrations, not just some "scratch the surface" or "general" integrations.
If you really think the w-api devs do a bad job there, i really invite you
- helping
- or doing it any better
But until you dont come along with something custructive i just have to say, be thankful that TwoD and sun do that really hard work.
I also have my issues with the W-API and iam pretty sure we have written one of the richiest plugins for editors using the W-API
- gliffy integration
- office import (any format, with pictures and all formats)
- inline document (attachment preview) of all office formats
- inline LaTeX with rendered previews
- attachment linking ( search using solr)
- inline youtube / gcal / some others
- inline views
- inline nodes ( searching using solr integrations and dialogs )
- easy linking of other nodes / users / attachments
and there is still stuff missing. All of those things are driven by nice dialogs and use friend selections / searches.
Why i have written down that list? Well simple, just to show how powerful W-API already is.
We have implemented all this using the unhacked current W-API release. So dont tell people it does not have "rich enaugh" features. Thats simply not the trueth.
It has its limits, some of them are sensible ( no way to modify selections ) but the one you mentined are - easy to deal with. The installation of W-API editors is easy.
To get those things communicated right:
- iam not a developer of w-api
- iam sun`s or TwoDs best friend
Iam simply a user of the w-api and actually i would rather to f***ing thank those two guys for all there hard work and work on those gazillion of user issue.
Thanks! :)
Thanks, Eugen! :)
It really means a lot (!) that you are "still" ;) appreciating and supporting the fundamental idea of Wysiwyg module. The reasons you described are exactly in line with the original reasons for taking up the hard work on the project :)
I know there haven't been any major changes to the module for a long time, but that is going to change as soon as D7 is released ;) Really, I think there's a lot we can do! :)
Also, you know, I'd love to clean up our communication issue ;) Not sure what action caused it, but I'd really like to join forces with you! :) You can always reach me in IRC or on Skype! :)
Thanks!
sun
Daniel F. Kudwien
netzstrategen
Yeah, we had our up and downs
Yeah, we had our up and downs i guess :)
I guess most people know me from crticizing some projects / processes.. but actually i dont hasitate to give positive feedback or cheer on projects. And W-API is def. one of those projects which are great and need a lot more support by the user-base (and that includes mee of course).
Supporting that module / approach is not too easy though, due the complexity of the tasks. The fact not really a lot of ( average ) people have knowlege on those fields. Because helping means dealing with a lot of different js frameworks.
So be sure there are people who stand behind w-api and will support it and iam def. willing to chip in into that project.
Its not an accident i dont support CKEditor or TinyMCE directly when i have written wysiwyg image upload (like e.g. image browser). It actually is a direct credit to the w-api project, which i really want to support.
So keep up the good work, also TwoD who reallly invests a lot of time on trivial / frequently reaccuring issues again and again. I have no idea were this guy takes his patience from, but i kind of need some "Scheiben" of it :)
It's no more complex than any
It's no more complex than any other module for a single plugin, which I find amazing.
Also, any text area that needs rich formatting SHOULD have input formats enabled. It's got all that nice filter code that prevents users from b0rking your site..
I'm beeing torn between the
I'm beeing torn between the W-API Solution and a single WYSIWYG Editor Choice, too:
But i would like to point out, where W-API could go:
I think it would be very important to have a good summary & repository of this.
For example I found a very nice"Iframe Fix" Module, somewhere deep in the issue queue. I guess i won't find that again!
The beste WYSIWYG Module i've EVER seen is JCE for Drupal:
http://www.joomlacontenteditor.net/
I think every WYSIWYG-Solution of Drupal can learn ALOT from this one!
Also i really like the way WYSIWYG is built in in Wordpress 3.x per standard.
Greets,
Simon
I second your opinion that
I second your opinion that one of the missing key point in w-api is "how can i extend those editors". Because in the end, its what it is all about W-API... the number of extensions and their integration level.
Yet the overview is very poor and you have search a lot on d.o to find anything usefull. It would be great if we could have a list ( pretty prominent placing on the project page .. a link to that page ) where people can add their / some module to the list. The maintainer of w-api can also maintain a "recommonded" list, maybe some tested / proven solutions for core task like image upload, linking, tables, media placing, teasers and so on
The customized ( i think its a tinymce ) JCE is pretty powerful, i also came across it.
But in the end the editors are all pretty bad out of the box. You have to configure them a lot, tune them and fix the settings to actually get proper results for
- copy and paste
- formating and cleaness ( which is kind of the other side of copy and paste )
- cleanups
- usability ( looking at the ugliness of tinymce )
- simplicity
Most of the editors, esp. tinymce are very powerful if you configure them ( which takes you months.. ).. e.g. the WP editor is also TinyMCE.
We are currently using CK, but iam pretty disapointed by its development. They are hunting features one for one, while the basic task lack of robustness and x-browser support. You encounter huge issues with C&P on webkit or generally when working with list ( C&P them )...when working with formats and their cleanups or with ghost p`s or newline,s, ugly meta-data inplace (where it ever comes from)...
Iam also pretty disappointed that the companies behind tinymce / ckeditor are not funding W-API but rather got for their own modules. This comes down to the fact, that the wont to sell their products like CK-Finder or the tinyMCE browser .. instead of encountering the competition of plugins which comes with W-API for e.g. image uploading or similar.
they still did not recognise that their own products dont integrate properly with the API`s like cck or nodes / FAPI and imagecache. They "scratch the surfuce" and thats it. Thats why the real future is behind the plugins of W-API, which can recieve much more support because they are working with a lot of editors. This combines a lot of effort.
Yet the overview is very poor
Yes, i thought about something like that! This would present the power of W-API much better to an avarage user!
I didn't know that the WYSIWYG Editors are so bad out of the Box.
JCE is a very customized TinyMCE Editor, right. Wordpress the same.
Did you already took a look on eIRTE? http://www.elrte.org/
This one looks interesting to me on the survace, but I don't know how good it is developed.
Thanks for your great work,
Simon
I've used elFinder
I've used elFinder via http://drupal.org/project/elfinder. It's great!.
I was happy with it actually working out of the box. I was able to customize it to work exactly the way I want for my site (www.patchparty.com)
Cheers,
Yonas
TinyMCEsupport.com - Support, Consulting, and Development.