Drupal 8 HTML5 Initiative Meeting #19

Attendees: jacine, mortendk, webchick, jerryitt, MediaDoneRight, aspilicious, Bojhan, ericduran, timplunkett, Crell, Gumpo, jhood, cosmicdreams, jbeach, davidwatson

We had many people show up for the meeting this week :)

Issues mentioned in meeting along with select comments: (I left more of the discussion in since some of the issues require more background information to follow)

Issue #1: http://drupal.org/node/1174640 => Add new HTML5 FAPI element: number
webchick - ericduran: / davereid Do you think you two could pair up on http://drupal.org/node/1174640 ?
davereid - yes
ericduran - the number issue can be tagged novice, it just needs some clean up, I uploaded a patch last week that should be pretty close, I think I just missed the css with the patch
jacine - tagged

Issue #2: http://drupal.org/node/1183042 => Change notice: Add WAI-ARIA roles to Core blocks
webchick - looks like it just needs a quick review of the change notice at http://drupal.org/node/1430892
http://drupal.org/node/1430892 => WAI-ARIA roles added to core blocks
webchick: Looks like everett is the best person to do so, probably?

Issue #3: http://drupal.org/node/1183250 => Change notification for: Add a theme_datetime() function to consistently theme dates and datetimes
webchick - also just needs a change notice. It's already committed (yay!)
jacine - webchick: I plan on reviewing the ARIA change notice. I looked at it earlier, but need to double-check it against the patch.

Issue #4: http://drupal.org/node/1221718 => Refactor block-admin-display-form.tpl.php
jacine - hey timplunkett, are you satisfied with sun's response to this, I think you are :)
timplunkett - yes
timplunkett - jacine: i didn't rtbc because i had almost the identical patch written myself, although in retrospect that sounds like a GREAT reason to rtbc :)
jacine - marked it RTBC

Issue #5 http://drupal.org/node/1382350 => [meta] Theme/render system problems
Crell - jacine: Has anyone from HTML5 weight in on this thread? It may be useful to offer feedback there.

Issue #6: http://drupal.org/node/1216978 => Clean up the CSS for Contextual module
jacine asked mortendk: you gonna review this one this week?
mortendk said he would work on it.

Issue #7: http://drupal.org/node/1216980 => Clean up the CSS for Dashboard module
cosmicdreams - I have a patch nearly there for dashboard, dashboard is somewhat confusing because the javascript is binded to the id naming of a few of the divs, I've cleaned that up in my sandbox and I'm just looking for more to do with it.
jacine - that's great to hear
cosmicdreams - I still use the primary #dashboard id, but I'm trying to keep the number of ids used to just that one

Issue #8: http://drupal.org/node/1360994 => Change hook_maintenance_page to hook_maintenance
jacine - webchick: can you get someone to help with the upgrade issue here: http://drupal.org/node/1360994#comment-5505104
webchick - jacine: http://drupal.org/node/1360994#comment-5505104 <— sorry, I don't understand that? The behaviour described there is correct.
webchick - jacine: Or, maybe not correct, but "as-designed"
jacine - webchick: the issue is happening on a major upgrade because of the theme hook change. Drupal 7 > 8
webchick - I get that hook_maintenance_page is confusing, but should we maybe just make that entire template page--update.tpl.php?, or something that doesn't require peopel to learn new things?
jacine - webchick: well it is maintenance… so you would get maintenance--update.tpl.php as an option
webchick - jacine: Oh, good point.
jacine - all the maintenance styles are grouped together
jbeach - the hook is too ideosyncratic
webchick - page—maintenance would also work
jacine - jbeach: you don't like maintenance.tpl.php
jacine - webchick: no that is the problem
webchick - but there is a fair chance "maintenance" collides with an existing system path
jacine - webchick: we CANNOT do that.
jbeach - jacine, I don't like the hook function
jacine - jbeach: which one? the one we are trying to change it to?
webchick - Ok, just making sure this approach made sense before I get someone to debug why it's not working. :), The issue makes sense, because page.tpl.php no longer includes the HTML stuff, so it's confusing that one
jacine - jbeach: the issue is that page-maintenance.tpl.php implies a relation to page, and 1/2 of the stuff in page.tpl.php is not available ad will never be. Its not an extension of page.tpl.php in any way and the code is sloppy as hell and mimics all the preprocess functions. It's totally stupid.
webchick - "page" template does, and the other does not
jacine - there are a few use cases but they are all minimal, so a different template makes sense.
webchick - I would go for maintenance-mode.tpl.php personally but that's a bikeshed issue that is irrelevant to the bug. :D
jbeach - jacine, right, my $0.02 is that there's a lot of code duplication associated with the maintenance page that should be eliminated
jacine - webchick: it's not just used for maintenance mode though: http://drupal.org/node/1360994#comment-5373076
Druplicon - http://drupal.org/node/1360994 => Change hook_maintenance_page to hook_maintenance
jbeach - I cede the details to folks that are invested here :)
jacine - jbeach: ok, that is exactly what we are doing, and we are taking "page" out of the hook and template name.
jacine - this comment sums it all up: http://drupal.org/node/1360994#comment-5373076, there will always be maintenance--update.tpl.php, maintenance--install.tpl.php, maintenance--offline.tpl.php
everyone proposed alternate names like: you-no-got-a-database-connection.tpl.php, got-no-database-now-its-gone.tpl.php, etc. :)

Issue #9: http://drupal.org/node/1138258 => Drop textarea.js in favor of CSS3 resize
ericduran - the patch shouldn't be that bad
ericduran - jacine: everything else is from a different approach
cosmicdreams - ericduran: would it require the js to support IE8?
ericduran - cosmicdreams: not on that issue, that issue is about ripping it out
ericduran - cosmicdreams: if you want ie8 support we can do a contrib module or something
cosmicdreams - ok....but aren't we supporting IE8 in D8 core?
jacine - ericduran: so IE8 and 9 get no more resizing?
ericduran - yea that's the idea
ericduran - lol I guess it won't be as simple then
jacine - ericduran: I dunno about that TBH.
ericduran - the idea is if an ie8 user really wants to support it, there's 100 other ways to do it, core can use the simple version by default
cosmicdreams - ericduran: That doesn't sound very good. I suppose testing will show if that property (or something close) is supported
Crell - jacine: IE 9 doesn't support css resize?
ericduran - jacine: lol
webchick - sorry was distracted. checking.
jacine - http://www.quirksmode.org/css/contents.html
Crell - As noted in one of those various issues, "if the browser doesn't support it, so-sorry, no-resize-for-you!" does seem to be the HTML5-ish convention for how to handle such things.
jacine - I didn't test it manually but ^^ says it's not supported
Gumpo - How many people will be using IE8 when D8 is a stable release?
Group consensus was too many people
cosmicdreams - jacine: do we have something like Modernizr in core?
jacine - cosmicdreams: no we do not, but this sounds like something that needs feature detection to me
Crell - ericduran: Right, that's my point. We put the onus on the browser to support resize, don't waste time with JS, and go have a beer.
ericduran - yep
jacine - I'll leave that up to you guys.
cosmicdreams - jacine: ericduran: yea detect if the browser supports and if so use native implementation, if not use js implementation.
jacine - I think it would be annoying to entire content in a content management system, and not be able to resize the textarea.
ericduran - cosmicdreams: simpler, just use css, No detection
davidwatson - Jumping into the fray in the middle, so apologies if this has already been covered, but what is the consensus on progressive enhancement as a development guideline? For embellishment functionality that we can handle with CSS in modern browsers, is shoehorning in JS support worth the bloat?
ericduran - no js support, feature detection is hard to do for css. And we really don't want to do browser sniffer
Crell - jacine: How would you feel about a contrib module called ie9 that provides the shivs that matter to absolutely no one but IE? :-)
ericduran - jacine: FYI, the default input is pretty big
jacine - I would like to tackle some form of feature detection though.
Crell - I mean, the only other legacy browser we even think about is Firefox 3.6... and we're not thinking about it.
ericduran - also lets remember some of these things can be done in contrib :-p
cosmicdreams - ericduran: would the css approach work for resizable textareas?
jacine - Crell: if you guys are all good with a CSS solution, so am I
Crell - cosmicdreams: On everything except IE8 and maybe IE9.
Crell - jacine: It's more a question of "can we leave out a shiv for this one".
jacine - I'm okay with contrib modules dealing with it
cosmicdreams - ericduran: Crell: well that's what I'm talking about
Crell - I propose yes.
ericduran - we can name our module "sucka" and it can have ie8 support
jacine - yes
Crell - Done!
jacine - I will tag it for this sprint