ごめん、もう一度英語だけで書いていました。まだ僕は日本語が下手。Sorry for another English-only post, but my Japanese is still way too crappy to even attempt a sensible translation of this. You all should be thanking me that I'm sparing you from even attempting it, really…
Anyway, there is a Drupal module called Localization Server which can be used to help facilitate group translation projects and/or help correct errors in already-existing translations. For example, here's the Japanese translation of the Mollom module as hosted by an installation of this module.
On the module's project page, you can see that several language communities have set up servers for translating Drupal or contributed modules. Nihongo is conspicuously missing.
Are there at least a couple folks here interested in translating who could make use of something like this? I'll volunteer to set up a server if there's interest - it's the least I could do since I'd be pretty useless at the actual translation at this point. It could also be used the other way, to translate a Japanese programmer's module into English. It might be a good idea to start with a smaller module to test out how the collaboration will work exactly before moving on to bigger ones…
Your thoughts?
Comments
I second this idea
I believe this is a very interesting idea.
I always wanted to simplify/share the localization for multilingual projects (especially Japanese). I also think your idea to start with a small module and "see how it goes" would be best.
If possible, it should also go hand in hand with thinking/talking how we could implement a centralized translation server for everything that needs to be translated to Japanese and eventually the opposite. I believe this could have bigger implications in the long term if this idea becomes widely accepted... risking having the server move/be terminated or just left hanging would not be great (maybe I'm thinking a bit too much here, you tell me ;) )
Anyways, I'll be following this thread to see where it goes.
I am not sure I understand.
時間があるときにこのLocalization serverに行って日本語の翻訳をやればそのうちいろんなものが日本語に翻訳されてみんなが使えるようになるというとだろうか？
というこであれば時間があるときに協力します。
Is osonoiさん saying that
Is osonoiさん saying that the Localization Server module itself should be translated into Japanese? If so, I agree; maybe that should be the first project…
(Arg, can't wait until my Japanese classes start again later this summer… I'm getting rusty.)
The Boise Drupal Guy!
He's saying
He's wondering about the function of the Localization server and guessing if the concept is about people showing up to translate into Japanese then eventually everyone(Japanese) will get access to it. If its about that he'd be willing to help out.
I'm wondering the same thing, am I right in thinking that your localization server project (in terms of Japanese) is about translating module documentation into Japanese? (I can translate fast but someone else needs to complete my Japanese translations into a more finished state).
I have a list of modules of must have and SNS modules, if you'd be willing to look at it. Is there anyway you can expand onto modules that you don't maintain?
Regards,
Scott
I'm wondering the same
Not the documentation, but the actual output of the module; the labels of its form elements, its on-page help text, etc. Maybe it's hard to describe to someone not familiar with the concept… Imagine I made a module which printed out three words: "Apple," "Bear," and "Cat." I'm going to translate it into Japanese. Basically, I add another file to my module which dictates what those translations are in Japanese:
Apple = りんご
Bear = クマ
Cat = ネコ
Now, if I switch my Drupal installation over to show Japanese text, then when Drupal goes to run my module, it's going to load the translation file too. Then when my code tells it to print "Apple," it will check to see if there's a translation for "Apple" available. Same for "Bear" and "Cat." So it prints out 「りんご」、「クマ」and 「ネコ」 instead. Does that make sense?
What Localization Server basically provides is a web-based interface for creating these translation files which allows for collaboration between translators and which may also be easier for people than creating the files "by hand."
Sure, but I can't imagine any module maintainer not willingly accepting any translation files you provide for their projects. I know I personally would love to see others translating my modules.
EDIT: It looks like Antoine posted another great description of just what Localization Server does below.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
Good idea, but I can't
Good idea, but I can't really see how l10n server works for this in practice. Isn't it for translating strings that are wrapped in t() in code, rather than in node?
Yes, exactly. It's for
Yes, exactly. It's for translating modules and such.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
Sorry, I thought you were
Sorry, I thought you were suggesting to use the l10n server to translate the handout.
I think many ideas an a few
I think many ideas an a few misconceptions of what the localization server is about...
I'll try to explain to the best of my knowledge what is the purpose of such a server.
Basically, it is there to help coordinate the translation of strings (those handled by the t() function like mentioned by dokumori) in any drupal's modules, including core.
Normaly, if you want to translate a module, you take the basic language file provided by the module, make a translation and put it in the folder which contains other translations. It basically just translate the module's interface, help text or whichever is passed through the t() function. best practice would be to provide your file to the module maintainer so that she/he can keep the module translation packaged with its release. It also means the translation file needs to be kept in sync with changes to the module, if any.
The server try to centralize this process. It also gives tool for people to suggest/correct/approve translations (which means scott could provide a general idea and other people just suggest better wording and so on so forth)
This also let people come in and out of the translations without letting all the work float if she ever leave the drupal community (anybody can pick up the work from where it was left on the server). This is also possible the "traditional way", but is, IMO, greatly simplified by the use of a centralized server.
The downside is that since it is centralized, it's better we agree on one place and not start having a multitude of servers...
I've read Drupal.org (or Acquia) will eventualy provide the servers to solidify the centralization of the resources.
Maybe Garrrett can amend my explanation, but I think it covers most of it.
PS: Thank you Dokumori for your post on Drupal planet!
流れについて行けてなくてすいません。
非常に興味深い話なので、ゆっくり読みますね。
Steinとも話をしていたのですが、次期drupal.orgは標準でi18n対応になって
トップページにLungage Switcherが付くみたいですね。
.orgに置かれたl10n serverへもアクセスできるようになるとおもしろいですね。
ちょっとあやふやなのでどこに書いてあるのか探してみます。
question
Still shaky on the concept, but with regards to this specific discussion, are we discussing translations for just the modules that Garret maintains (4-5 modules? ) ?
I definitely see a benefit to the Japanese community if many modules useful to the community would be translated at some location. But for just several modules, my reaction would be why don't we just look for someone who's willing to translate?
Or am I totally off the mark here? Are we talking of more universal and centralized efforts?
It does sound like the centralized server is in consideration but doesn't exist yet, and in the meantime Garret is thinking about providing Japanese translations for the modules he maintains.
I'm still confused about what this thread is about (what are we trying to do?), I think I roughly understand what the localization module is, thanks btw.
have a look at the project
have a look at the project page -link a the top- or look at one installation of such a server (french team):
http://l10n.drupalfr.org/
http://l10n.drupalfr.org/translate/projects <- this is a page with all the modules they try to maintain (or make available for translation)
I think one thing - but I'm not sure if its implemented yet - is the ability to just use the server (url) to update your site's translations instead of downloading a language package/file. *If it doesn't exist it would be a logical step IMO. So when installing drupal you just select a localization server and install the japanese profile, Drupal would check if any translated strings are available from the server, then local files, else use the default English.
There was a module for Japanese support for Drupal 5 from J-box if I'm not mistaken which used a server as a source to update translations (I'm sad there not such a thing for D6...). Anyways, localization server is the way to go for a community supported way.
Though I have volunteered to
Though I have volunteered to help set up the server, I'm not saying it's only for translating my modules. I'm not that selfish! I will leave it to the translation community to decide which modules they would like to translate.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
Got it..
Sorry, I think I got everything mixed up while trying to understand the localization module. And should have read the starting post for this thread more carefully as well.
I now understand that this is about a Japan universal and centralized efforts to offer Drupal translations.
I'm all for it. Wondering, based on the French URL above if drupaljp.org is available. I think there would be a need for a Japan Group site eventually (group email address etc..), but before I go ahead and start sounding like I'm dreaming up things, I already know that if there's any finances or additional admin efforts needed for a site, I think some members in this group would be glad to contribute as I've already heard opinions like that with regards to a site.
Anyways, how do you think we should proceed? Anyone?
Best regards,
Scott
I don't know if we will ever
I don't know if we will ever need a group email address, but your idea on the domain is good. I was worried that someone may take that domain so I just got it :D
But don't worry, I hereby pledge to use this domain solely for the benefit of this group. Technically it's mine because I bought it, but I don't feel that it belongs to me but to this group. I will be more than happy to transfer this domain to Dries Buytaert or to another person within this group if decided and agreed democratically.
I don't exactly know what kind of site you are thinking about having, but if we are going to translate modules etc. collaboratively, then it will be useful to have a site under that domain.
With Stein's work this space has become more usable than before. Also being hosted under g.d.o means less maintenance work and politics. My feeling is to use this space as our home and let the community grow a bit more. So personally I'd like to hang out here a bit longer even if we set up the site for translation.
I'm sorry to pour water into the discussion already going on...
何人かの方々の中ですでに盛り上がっている話題に水を差すようで申し訳ないのですが、この Groups、新しく提案されている Japan Group サイト、などのように複数のサイトに分けてしまうと、情報が一カ所にまとまらず、これから Drupal に興味を抱いた人が混乱するのではないかと懸念しています。できるだけ、日本における Drupal ユーザーのためのポータルのようなものは一カ所にまとめたほうが理想なのではないでしょうか？
I am very sorry to pour water into the hot discussion already going on among a few people here, I am concerned that new Drupal users may be confused where to look at in order to get information, if we split information about activities of Japanese Drupal users into several sites, such as this groups.drupal.org, the newly suggested Japan group's official site, and so on. I think it would be ideal if we can gather all the information about such in just one site.
Aki Iwata
FOREST & trees
言われてる事はご最もで
言われてる事はご最もで、何度もaiwata55さんの意見は短い間に挙がっています。次回のミーティングで機会があればさらに皆さんの意見を聞かしてもらうとして、今回は初めてg.d.oではこなせない（プロジェクト）提案が出てしまったので長期の意味でも、計画を少々話してる程度という状況だと思います。
私の個人的な意見としては、既に日本国内にグループは少なくとも大々的にこのグループを含めて三つあり（drupal.jp, j-box, g.d.o）、他の国は山ほどグループが自由にある中、グループが少ないのはそれだけ幅がなく日本のDrupalユーザにとって不利益であると考えています、ようするにグループが少ないのが返ってマイナスであるというのが現在の私の見方です。このグループ以外でも自由に別サイトを作るのも自由なのであれば、このグループを通して別サイトを作るのも自由に考えるべきであると。それだけ幅が出るという考えですが、しかし無造作にサイトをいっぱい作るのは当然反対です。
Drupalユーザに対する影響の意見話はこれぐらいにするとして、localizationサーバをグループで管理しようという提案の中、そしてやる気のある人達がいて、グループサイトは不必要という見方は、グループでlocalizationサーバを管理するのはやめるべきだという意見にもなってしまうのが現在の状況だと私は考えています。他のやり方があるのであればご提案下さい。
他に日本にlocalizationサーバがあるのであればそれも視野に今回は検討するべきだとも思います。個人的には私はg.d.oで日本のグループも増えたらいいなと思ってるぐらいで（５－６人で効率的な勉強会結成可能な事から）、それがJapanグループの妨げになるとはまったく思っていません、むしろプラスだと思います。
Scott
for reference :
for reference what does the l10n stand for, btw?
At this point as far as group communication goes, I initially didn't know but g.d.o does have all the functionalities that I originally intended for a site. And now I totally agree and like the idea to stick around g.d.o.
A group site, or just a localization site we're considering, it does seem that we could utilize a site for anything that can't be done at g.d.o hence what we're discussing now.
One idea that just popped up, is maybe a separate group site could be "project oriented" (a casual work space), and at the final stages maybe that project could show up as a tab or something after we vote on it. That way we could spawn many Drupal Japan projects, which the g.d.o I don't think is suited for, and we could just post a note at g.d.o. for others to check it out. As far as site design goes, I don't have a picture yet.
g.d.o : for general group discussions, communications, group SNS.
group site : for group projects and list it as a group resource at g.d.o.
How's that sound? just a suggestion.
Scott
slide this one through :
I think the wiki should have comments enabled, btw. And not sure if this is possible but make the wiki comments into part of latest discussions as well.
And I really see a need for Drupal J Dojo, although I'm not sure if this is relevant to what we're discussing here. I kind of a have a feeling that a clear cut separate group might be appropriate.
I18n stands for
I18n stands for Internationalization - 18 letters between the I and n.
L10n stands for Localization - 10 letters between... well you get the pattern
(btw I hate those acronyms that tend to reduce meaning in order to make a shorter - supposedly catchy - easy to remember - oh is it? - name. Saturday morning rant ;) )
thanks for explaining acronyms
I would have never guessed that the acronyms stood for Internationalization and Localization..
It's because the 'correct
It's because the 'correct way' (i.e. British English) of spelling them is
...and
whereas in American English, they are spelled with z instead of s.
and of course there is a debate as to which is correct (and it really doesn't matter) so it was abbreviated so we can communicate without annoying each other :p
Okay, I went ahead and set
Okay, I went ahead and set up a server. It was a little more difficult than I thought it would be, but it seems to work. Please give it a try if you have some time. It's up at http://jp.raygunrobot.org/.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
Plan First
I'd like to suggest that we come up with a plan.
A localization server for modules is a good starting point, but obviously there's a ton of things to localize, so I'd like to discuss things for a while with expanding on these efforts in mind. Continue brainstorming.
Or should we really get right to it?
Do we want to stick specifically with just modules?
Do we want a group managed site?
Once we get a plan going, obviously we need to communicate this in Japanese as well and get a discussion going. It just doesn't seem to me that we're there yet. Currently I still view what we're doing as part of the planning process, fyi.
btw, Garret there's nothing at the link. Look forward to viewing the server.
Scott
btw, Garret there's nothing
Oh my God, I'm so dumb I got the URL to my own web site wrong. It's actually at http://jp.raygunrobot.com/.
Anyway, I agree that this needs some planning; at the very least, some consensus on what projects should be worked on. I just wanted to get the server up so that I and others could play around with it and see how it's actually going to work in practice.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
lol! Thanks Garret for
lol! Thanks Garret for setting this up.
ということで時間があったら訳をやりましょう。
ということでしょうか？
http://jp.raygunrobot.com/.のサイトに行って登録して。
ナビゲーションから”translate"を選択。
自分の訳したいプロジェクトを右側から選択。（訳して欲しいものがあったらGarrett Albright に連絡を）
その後がよくわからいない。
Me, too
osonoiさん同様、とりあえずというか早速登録して見てみたんですけど、なにかスゴイことが行われつつある、というのはなんとなく見えるんですけど、よくわからないｗ
そもそも、このスレッドを読んではいるものの、いったいなにをしようとしているのか、いまいち理解できていない（という英語力のなさ(^^ゞ）。いや、上に書いたのと同様「こ、これはなにかすごそうだぞ？」というのが引っかかってきてて、読んでたわけですが（笑）。
Does anyone please kindly explain what is going on briefly in Japanese? :-)
Anyways, こんなの作れるの見るとすげぇーなーと思う反面、自分がいやになります（爆）
＃追記：タイトルは間違いか。Me, neither ?（中学英語なはずなのに錆びてる(^^;;）
＃で、Garrettの図入り解説（漫画みたいで楽しい！）でも、いまいちポイントがつかめてなかったりして（汗
４人くらいで勝手に
４人くらいで勝手に話を進めていてごめんなさい。近々まとめて説明します。
基本的には、寄贈モジュールの翻訳をやっていきましょう、ということについて話し合っています。
…
（下のイメージを見て下さい）
The Boise Drupal Guy!
lol! Can't be simpler. You
lol! Can't be simpler. You are a cool guy, Garret :)
We are wondering what is actually involved in managing a l10n server. Any idea?
Well, there needs to be an
Well, there needs to be an administrator of sorts who looks at the translations people have submitted and selects which ones to "accept." Then, eventually, the translations will have to be exported to a translations file and included with the module project, though I haven't gotten far enough to figure out how that process works.
…Or did you mean in terms of sysadmin stuff? The module was a little more annoying to configure and set up than a standard Drupal module, but it's not that difficult if you follow the instructions. Any Drupal installation should be able to run it.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
計画中 ： 検討中 Summary Trans : Still Planning
はい、このスレッドのここまでの翻訳を総まとめの形でして見ます。
元々Garrett君がlocalizationモジュールを活かした日本用サーバを立ち上げられるのでどうでしょうというスレッドに対して、それ以降localizationモジュールの説明とこれから計画をいろいろ検討して行こうという事を前提に話が進み、現在Garrett君が試しという意味でもサーバを立ち上げてくれた状況でありますが。
現在挙がっている検討して行くかもしれない事項としては（これはあくまで検討中話し合いであるとして）：
１．どうlocalizationサーバを管理していくか？
２．計画をしないで即localizationサーバを通してモジュールの和訳活動を進めるか？
３．Japanグループとして、g.d.o(groups.drupal.org)ではできない例えば今回のlocalizationサーバの様な活動を初めとして別途サイトをグループサイトとしてで立ち上げるか？（この場合Mori君がdrupaljp.orgというDrupalでよく使われてそうなドメイン形式をグループのために既に取得済みの発表、グループのためであればグループ同意の元何時でもDries Buytaert やJapanグループに権利移転の意向）
４．こういう条件の元、g.d.o(groups.drupal.org)で続けてグループ活動するのを前提として、サイト、Drupal英語情報が山ほどある中ローカリゼーション全般を話し合おうという感じで会話は進んでいます。
５．fuji提案として、g.d.oをJapanグループのSNSサイト、コミュニケーション中心の活動場に指定して、別途サイトで例えばフランス語などで活用されてるdrupaljp.orgのドメイン形式の場で（drupalfr.orgはGarrettサーバの様なlocalizationサーバのみである）g.d.oでは不向きやできない活動、例えばプロジェクト方式のグループ活動を別途サイトとして行ってはどうかとかなり話を広げた提案。（私はdrupal.orgの部分々のLocalizationまで必要であると考え今回視野に入れて提案を考えています）
足りない部分は補修お願いします。
以上、
Scott
p.s. I am actually, considering proposing a site for the Japan Group that includes localizing parts of Drupal.org that includes what we are discussing now. Let's not hold back for no reason. 時々ブレーキを踏みながら運転する人がいますが、そういう感じの活動は個人的には避けて行きたいので、計画の元おもいっきりグループとして活動して行けたらいいなと思います。
1.管理したことないか
1.管理したことないから、管理にかかる作業が分からないので何ともいえない。とりあえず一つ翻訳でもしてみようか。
2.最初の一つはそれで良いと思う
3/5. そんな感じでいいのでは。グループを超えたオープンな場として提供できたら良いと思う。以下詳細：
こういうプロジェクトサイトは、グループのサイトとして立ち上げていいんじゃない？というのが僕の意見。誰が管理するかは別の話だけど（手伝いますよ）。
個人的に必要と感じるのは、プラットフォームと基本的なルールかな。
オープンソースプロジェクトでは、リソースの管理がとても難しいと感じてます。むしろ、管理という概念自体が当てはまりにくく、調整（コーディネーション）のほうが良く当てはまる。
特にDrupalコミュニティを見ていると、みんながやりたいことをやる風潮が強くて（だから管理は無理）、それによってDrupalは発展してる。Drupalに明確なロードマップがないのは、その傾向を反映してると思う。ローカルコミュニティにもよると思うけど、基本的にはプラットフォームがあって、そこで自然発生的に色々起こっているという感じ。その自由さによる発展を考慮した上で場の提供をしたいです。
ルールとは、無益な衝突が起きたり、コミュニティやプロジェクトに害を与えるような行動をある程度予防するようなもの。例えば、最初にあるモジュールを翻訳し始めた人がその翻訳に対する「所有権」を有することを認めない、とか（そもそもGPL派生物だから無理だと思う。Translation mailing listで問い合わせ中）。
プラットフォームとは、このグループを超えて、Drupal users総体としてのゴールに到達するために自由に使える場。例えば、日本でのDrupal普及を促進するという意味では、CCK2, Views2, Panels3の翻訳が一番効率が良いと思うし、グループとしてこれを追求するのは良いと思う。でも、c-novaさんのように必要に応じて翻訳をして、それを共有してくださる人もたくさん居るだろうし、そういった自然発生的な活動を奨励・助長するような懐の広さは欲しいと思う。「ロードマップにないから、そのモジュールは追加できません」みたいなのは分裂を招くだけだし意味が無いので。
皆さんのご意見は？
グループの土台と基本的なルール : Group Foundation and Basic rules
賛成、コミュをサイトで作るにあたって土台と基本的なルールは凄く大事 （グループサイトを作ると検討する中）。
With establishing a group site in mind, I agree a platform for the group to work on, and some basic rules are important to sustain a good community.
オープンソースコミュとしての基本的なグループルールを決めるのは僕はそういう経験がないから難しそう。
To come up with some basic rules seems somewhat complicated, may be due to the fact that I have little experience in those kinds of things in an open-source community.
そういう状況の中、Ideaをいくつか検討する意味で述べます。Surrounding these topics I have a couple ideas that we could consider.
１．検討中のサイト管理者候補に関してはグループ内でこのスレッドで結構活発そうな人達で、出来る人達が数人います（残念ながら私は実力不足で管理者はできずバックシートDriverのようになってしまいますがIdeaという事で）。There a number of people who seem active at g.d.o that qualify as admins of a Japan Group site (sorry I'm not skilled enough yet to volunteer this..).
Admin candidates (管理者候補):
Antoine
Osonoi
Qchan
dokumori
Garrett
Stein (if he wants to)
Shaun (if he wants to)
I say the more (5-6) the merrier but we don't need like a dozen admins. And in fact only a few could spear the efforts through initially. If someone else wants to join as an admin we can discuss it with a number of people. If it turns out that this Site group can't make a decision for some reason, we can just bring it out to a Japan group discussion and decide. 最初は５－６人の管理者を指定して、基本的にはやる気のある人達で最初パパッて作って見てはどうでしょう？新しく管理者のボランチャアしたい人はまたみんなで話して決めるという事で。決まらない事はグループ全体で相談するという形も。
２．Now I am going to make a suggestion for the design of the site. This is quite huge, don't know how you guys might react. ではジャパンサイトの形態として本当広い提案をさせて頂きます。
I checked into structure of Drupal France in brief, and I really like it. www.drupalfr.org is like drupal.org, and they have a localization server at l10n.drupalfr.org as Antoine refrenced us. I think this sort of platform could provide a good foundation for a big community, although the work will be immense, but we can start off small with a tab linked to the localization server and just continue adding things as we go along. How does this sound?, take your time to think as I will continue to do so too. [[www.drupalfr.org]] (drupal.orgのローカリ)とl10n.drupalfr.org (localizationサーバ)を御覧になって下さい。フランス語ではローカリゼーションが必要という事もあり日本のサイトとして参考になるのでは考えています。かなり大きな提案ですが私のイメージとしてはdrupal.orgなどをベースにサイト構築した方が長期で考えやすいのではと考えています。g.d.o/japanと重なる部分などはサイトからg.d.oにリンクを貼ればいいだけですし、それなりに柔軟に考えて行くとしてあまりオリジナルティにあふれても疲れるだけかと。最初は日本localizationサーバのタブひとつだけでもいいですし、十分広げていけるフォーマットが良いと思います。
www.drupaljp.org & l10n.drupaljp.org (sounds good to me, what else are the French doing at drupalfr.org ?!)
After viewing the localization server page
After viewing the l10n server page, am I right in assuming that whatever work we do, will eventually be ported to a centralized server at drupal.org? http://drupal.org/project/l10n_server localizationサーバのページを拝見した後さらにプロジェクトに対しての理解が高まりましたが、これは各国個々でローカリゼーションを始めていずれ本家サイトでl10nサーバが立ち上がればデータを転送し、その後はそこで活動するという事ですよね。
Which seems like a clear cut project.
プロジェクト自体ははっきりしてますね。
A couple questions I'd like us to discuss, is should we go and do this at a domain like "l10n.drupaljp.org" as it seems that some other country teams have country URL's, and some don't? What are your views on this.
では、皆様の意見を聞きたいのですが、他の国のチームは国代表らしいドメインやそうでないドメインで活動をしていますが、今回「l10n.drupaljp.org」というようなドメインでJapanグループは活動するべきでしょうか？
When is the centralized server coming online?
いつdrupal.orgでセントラルサーバは立ち上がるのでしょう？
And the localization server module is mainly for themes and modules, correct? not standard Drupal info pages, so not appropriate for localizing for example drupal.org pages? Under those circumstances, which is already a large task in itself, do we want to discuss expanding into other localization efforts like translate parts of Drupal.org? or just leave it at another discussion? 話の流れからしてlocalizationモジュールはテーマやモジュール専用のローカリゼーションモジュールでありますが、その範囲の外まで視野を広げて今回discussionをして行くべきでしょうか？
Once we get through this, lets get a discussion going and maybe vote on all the modules that should be at our localization server. グループとして結論が出た後、さっそくモジュールリストの作成でも始めてみましょうか。
Personal question, don't know much about Ubercart but can this server be effectively applied to Ubercart?
個人的に知りたいのですがUbercartのローカリゼーションでlocalizationサーバは効率よく活用できますか？
I propose we make an idea
I propose we make an idea list (not only about the localization server) since so many points have been brought up - especially by Scott - resuming a few of the projects/ideas/procedures we need to discuss for this group.
I haven't had so much time to spend in the forum in the past 2 weeks and I feel that it would be nice to have some of the points brought up here and there discussed at this months meetup in Kanto and Kansai. The summary of the discussions could after that be posted back and some voting could also be put up for points we need to decide. I feel some members, including me, can't keep up with the pace some things are happening but would still like to voice an opinion.
That said, I do not want to hinder things from happening either. If people can agree on making a list of priorities/ideas we'd like to implement in our group, lets make this and discuss it in person in two weeks. If this is too much waiting, please go ahead and I'll just try dive in when I get some slack at work.
After viewing the l10n
I don't think anybody really knows. I don't think it will be that difficult to move our progress to the centralized server when the time comes, though.
Right. I'd imagine something like a wiki would work best for translating D.o pages.
Yes, but Ubercart is a huge project. I would recommend that those interested in helping with this project start with a relatively small module before moving on to a larger one like Ubercart or Views. But which one? Any votes?
The Boise Drupal Guy!
modules : suggested above
CCK2, Views2, Panels3 modules were suggested as a good starting point by dokumori. I totally agree.
Wondering if there is a need for translating core modules in Japan?
Because soon.. I might dish out my cool module list.. I'm a newbie but I think I did my research (I'll find out).
CCK, Views and Panels are
CCK, Views and Panels are all also rather large modules… But CCK is already there on the translation server, if we want that one to be the first. Go for it!
With regards to translating core modules, there's already a core translation out there. That's why the jp.raygunrobot.com site is partially in Japanese as it is. The crew at Drupal.jp is leading that; we may want to get in touch with them and see if we can cooperate.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
Great idea and initiative!
Garrett, this is a great idea, and prospective Japanese Drupal users must be glad about your initiative. I didn't know such a module existed.
By the way, as you mentioned here, there are already some translations out there. In order not to make these efforts useless, I suggest to find a way to integrate these efforts to come up with better Japanese translations for both core and contributed modules.
As for the administration of translations, someone already suggested to appoint a person as an administrator. This will be a good idea. I also think we can use polls to choose which translation is more meaningful for a given original (English) text string.
Aki Iwata
FOREST & trees
Polls are an interesting
Polls are an interesting idea, but I think sometimes things can be done faster if we just have a smart person making smart decisions instead of having to vote on everything. (Oh dear, does that make me a fascist?) Unfortunately, we haven't had any smart people volunteer yet, nor has anyone submitted any translation suggestions yet… What can we do to incentivize people? A contest, maybe?
The Boise Drupal Guy!
status: and to Garrett and Mori
I think the general idea of the status with regards to the localization server is, since all the general ideas seems are out, if we find time (OSC, OSW coming up July which we're participating in) we'll anounce what's been discussed here at the next meeting 6/27. I do intend to bring it up with regards to if we want to start a drupaljp.org site, and it does finally seem that we'd want and need one (at least some of us will if we want our own localization server). 次回の6/27ミーティングで時間があれば、グループの別サイトとしてlocalizationサーバを立ち上げるという案が挙がっている事を話そうと思っています。
So, Garrett and Mori, is it fine if I include you guys in the discussion as possible admins to such a server and/or site since you're not currently in Japan? And I'd also like confirmation with regards to that you guys are fine with starting a group site separate from g.d.o? (if there are circumstances that you'd agree please state them) 確認のため、Garrett君とMori君の別サイトを作るという事に関しての意見を聞かせて下さい。localizationサーバのアドミンになってもいいと理解して大丈夫ですか？賛成できる条件などあれば述べて下さい。
And if possible if you guys have put any thought into my suggestion as to a www.drupaljp.org site that is like drupal.org and a l10n.drupaljp.org site that will be a place for our localization server. l10n.drupaljp.org I don't think would be too much of a push to get an agreement, but I think www.drupaljp.org which is like drupal.org may get some opposition, but still I'd like to push with a site with one tab at the home page that links to l10n.drupaljp.org. それと、私が提案したwww.drupaljp.orgドメインをdrupal.orgっぽい日本語サイトに長期でして行くという事とと、l10n.drupaljp.jpをlocalizationサーバの場所に指定するという事に関しても意見を聞かせて下さい。drupaljp.orgは時期が早いということになるかもしれませんが、l10n.drupaljp.org案の賛成はそう難しくないと思います。個人的には小さくとも両方始めたいのが私の意見ですが。
宜しく！
Regards,
Scott
p.s. a couple of small boats that the Japan Group gave birth to isn't going to sink the main ship. The main ship (Drupal in Japan) is unsinkable since it is a social phenomenon. So let's ride the waves.
Like I said in other of my
Like I said in other of my posts, you're proposing many ideas at the same time... The scale of some of your ideas is, IMO, a little bit exaggerated (like the drupal.org japanese clone). Of course, I can read between the lines and see you do not want the whole thing etc, but let's face it, it is a bit much.
That said, if I try to extract the essence of what drives you to propose those things is the will to bring more of the information contained on Drupal.org (lets also include drupal dojo, lullabot and others) to Japan and Japanese members which means by extension a need for at least translation of the content or the creation of new Japanese material.
I've been thinking about this for quite some time on my own and trying to brew some ideas to create some momentum/synergy in order to get more content to the Japanese community.
For now, what has been best for me was the chance to meet people in person at the last meet up. The next step I believe is to try to form some small affinity groups under the japan group to promote the creation of Japanese based content. This could be helped by matching non-Japanese members with Japanese members so that the information in English could be more quickly made accessible and so on. And to make it clear, I mean affinity in a sense where there's too much stuff to be covered when it comes to Drupal that it is almost impossible to ask only some people to be in charge of translating/creating content about things they do not really understand/have little interest and so on.
I believe that if we get people to micro-organize in-between the monthly meet-up, we'll start producing a non negligible amount of content/information which would lead logically to the need of having a place to easily access it and so on (which could possibly still be g.d.o/japan for a while). For now I see some of your ideas as something that will be needed in the future IF we overcome some hurdles. Lets not burn bridges before we cross them - there's a need for more push ups before being able to go to the Olympics (sorry for the poor imagery...)
PS: Before having a drupal.org in Japanese, lets' try to have and api.drupaljp.org (see: http://api.lullabot.com/ and a companion blog post http://drupaleasy.com/quicktips/better-drupal-api-documentation-site) with code explanation in Japanese. (like the localization server module, there's an API module which does all the grunt work... probably needs some thinking to be able to add Japanese...) And do not get me wrong, this is also a BIG task.
api.drupaljp.org
I dig the api.drupaljp.org idea as well and would like to discuss that at the next meeting as well.
api.drupaljp.org のアイディアもいいですね。次回のミーティングで是非 l10n.drupaljp.org と一緒に検討して見たいです。
continued :
Antoine君の案で http://api.lullabot.com/ をベースに下記の内容のページを api.drupaljp.org で提供して見たいです。
そして groups.drupal.org/japan では http://drupaleasy.com/quicktips/better-drupal-api-documentation-site の感じで api.drupaljp.org にリンクするという考えですね。本当いい！Antoine, good thinking!
(Antoine君も認めてる大変な作業ですがご心配なく)
Don't worry about the localization efforts, unless it's a full-on encyclopedia I don't see a problem.
Can you hold fire on this?
Can you hold fire on this? It's not at all that I'm against the idea. Rather, I'm totally up for it.
However, the API documentation is generated from comments in code using Doxygen (and the rest e.g. form api and other stuff is html) and does not utilise node system, which makes things a bit complicated. Stein and I contacted the maintainers of API module few weeks ago and learned Russian community has developed a helper module that provides workflow to the translation process. The author has sent us the module and I would like to have a go with that. But I have not been able to contact Stein and waiting for his response. Since he proposed the idea, I would like to respect his opinion on this.
======================
これに関してはちょっと待っててもらえますか。このアイディアには大賛成なんだけど、APIのドキュメンテーションはDoxygenを使ってコードのコメントから直接生成されていて、（残りのform apiとかはhtml)ノードシステムを使ってないので、翻訳が少し面倒なの。
Steinと僕で数週間前にこれに関してAPIモジュールのメインテイナーに連絡を取ったところ、ロシアのコミュニティが、APIドキュメントの翻訳ワークフローを提供するヘルパーモジュールを持っていることを知らされた。著者がこのモジュールを送ってくれて、試したいと思っているんだけど、最近Steinと連絡が取れなくて、今も彼の連絡を待っているところ。彼が発案したことでもあるので、彼の意見を待とうと思ってます。
As I said earlier, setting
As I said earlier, setting up a l10n server as part of this group sounds fine with me. But only if we have it as a neutral and democratic space for collaboration.
Before opening up the server, I need to test it out with few people and see how the server works and what the workflow is like. I will not know what to / how to administer otherwise.
If people are ok to have this sloppy guy as an admin, I'll be happy to help. Having said, I'm already pretty busy with the security team work as well as UK events, I won't be able to contribute more than 1-2hrs / week. Especially considering that I have no experience in this and I cannot foresee potential issues, I would feel more comfortable to share the responsibility with a couple others.
========================
先にも述べたように、l10nサーバーをグループとして立ち上げることには賛成。ただ、中立的かつ民主的なコラボレーションの場であることが条件。
サーバーを解放する前に、数人で試してみて、どういう風にサーバーを使うのか、どういったワークフローになるかを確認する必要があると思う。それが分からないと、何を管理するのかも分からないので。
こんな適当な奴がadminで良いなら喜んで手伝います。ただ、セキュリティチームの仕事やUKのイベント等で既にかなりの時間を取られていることもあり、週1-2時間以上は裂けないと思います。特にこの翻訳サーバーに関しては生じうる問題が見えないこともあり、あと二人くらいと責任を分担するのが望ましいです。
もちろん
手伝いますよ！
いつでも連絡下さい。スキルは問わない方向でよろしくです。
また、Japan groupのMembers一覧を見ると、僕がDrupalをインストールしたあと、
なにを入れればよいのか途方に暮れていた時に、モジュールの解説や飜訳ファイルで非常
にお世話になったサイトの管理人の方と同じお名前も拝見できるので、そのような方達に
出来れば協力お願いできたらなと思ったりしてます。
例えば、
http://drupal.pineray.jp/
Blog共に有名＆有用なサイトです。このサイトには大変助けられています。
（PineRayさん、勝手にお名前を出してすみません。また、人違いでしたら失礼をお詫びします。）
So, Garrett and Mori, is it
I would be happy to help on a sysadmin level, sure. In fact, I recently got a shiny new VPS account and will need some cool things to host on it… Maybe this is some good timing. With regards to the copyright discussion below, the server is located in the US.
However, I do feel that the fact that my Japanese skills are still mostly worthless is a problem and likely to be one for at least a couple more years at the rate I'm able to study here. So I'll be something of an outsider, I'm afraid.
So… Who had registered drupaljp.org? I know it was someone here, but can't recall who.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
That was me that registered
That was me that registered the domain. However afaiu the decision will be made at a meeting which is scheduled for next week so I'll just hold fire and see how it goes. Or if I'm wrong and this is definitely a go, I'll point the domain to your server (it currently redirects to g.d.o/japan)
Re administering the server: We wouldn't ask you to do things you don't feel comfortable with so don't worry about administering the translation server. But since it's your server, we would like to have you as the sysadmin.
By the way which VPS are you using? Which OS? I have a slice from Slicehost and using Ubuntu on it. Liking it quite a lot :)
By the way which VPS are you
RootBSD, which offers FreeBSD VPS accounts; I'm more familiar with FreeBSD than any given strain of Linux. The company I work for has had an account with them for about a month and a half and it's worked pretty well so far, even though it's so cheap, so I decided to pick one up for myself.
Let's see what the zeitgeist is at the meeting next week. I probably won't have the server ready to do anything interesting until early next week at the soonest anyway. I just hope the momentum of this idea doesn't die amidst a bunch of talk and voting.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
Let me pour some more oil on
Let me pour some more oil on the fire.
(and I'd say Scott has a similar idea in one of his post above)
It is great if we get a centralized effort and get to organize all in the same place, but it is also a good thing for people to freely be able to test waters. I feel that before we can settle on a unique/"one and only" place to do all centralized translation, it is best that many ideas float around, some test sites be used to try out some workflows, etc.
The collected data can all eventually be move from one server to another (I agree this might not be the funniest thing to do) or possibly all back to the centralized, drupal.org, language server when there is one (which renders the argument of one server being the only good solution somewhat weak).
As for not so many people using the server set up by Garret, I believe that making things a bit more "official" at one of the group meeting would set things in motion for many. There might also be a need for a mini training session...
I'll try to propose that this point be brought up somewhere in the schedule of the next meeting in Tokyo. People involved in the Kansai area could do the same. I believe this would speedup things.
飜訳にからむ件はい
飜訳にからむ件はいろいろと非常にやっかいな部分を含むので、Drupalの日本における経緯を知っている
日本人のみなさんが発言を控えているだろうといういう事はご理解いただきたいです。
GarrettやScottに説明しにくいのが申し訳ないです。
直接話しあった方がよいと思いますね。
僕は飜訳サーバーは将来的にはdrupal.orgの一機能になるのが望ましいと思ってますが、
それまでの便宜的な位置づけとしてなら協力は惜しまないつもりです。
その目的以外で他サイトを立ち上げる云々は、aiwata55 の言われた意見におおむね賛成です。
それに縛られずに、Scottが自由に個人Siteやconsortiumを立ち上げるのは素敵なことだと思いますよ。
個人サイト
では単純な質問で、グループサイトに関しての多数の意見は理解していますが、それはグループ内でのlocalizationサーバ活動は現在個人のサイトでやった方がいいというのが、別途サイト反対意見の人達の考えなんでしょうか？素朴な疑問としてお聞きします。OK then am I right in understanding that whom ever opposes to a separate group managed site for group efforts, feels that those kinds of efforts should be done at places other than a site managed by the group?
私はg.d.oはSNSやイベントにしか向いていないと思っているので、g.d.oでできない活動をグループ内の人達で試みた時は、グループの外でするべきと勝手に決まってるような印象、もしくは何もするなと言われているようにしか思えません。I only view the g.d.o as a great place for group communication, and not tasks, so when I hear heavy opposition to a group site, I just feel that some decisions are somehow made for no reason by who? have no idea, or that I'm told to just go at it alone nicely.
インドのDrupalコミュは人数が多いのか、熱心なのかカオスになってるような印象ですが、サイト反対という意見はまさに良かれ悪かれ我々の事情を表してると思っています。サイトを黙って作って、Japanグループに提供しても誰も文句は言わないと思いますが、その前にグループで決めようとすると反対されるような事がありそうなのはなぜでしょう？The India Drupal communties seems like complete Chaos, maybe due to numbers, maybe due to commitments but I don't think anybody's complaining. But us, we can't even agree on a site, when I'm quite sure that if a few in the group just built the site and didn't tell anybody and just announced that they built something for the group, nobody would complain, or am I assuming too much?
Drupal.orgもどきの日本サイトもなぜtab一つのサイト（作業中でもいいですし）からスタートするべきではないのでしょうか？
What's wrong with a one tab home page that we eventually want it to be like a Japanese Drupal.org site?
議論の余地がわかりません、いずれ起こる事なので。
I really don't understand the logic behind these kinds of oppositions.
反対である理由は本当に筋が通ってるのですか？（変な日本語ですがわかりますよね）
Is there a logic behind these oppositions?
では、ミーティングで
では、ミーティングで
Please, let's try to put words into action.
Please, let's try to put words into action... I'll leave it at that.
Right
btw, I do understand the logic behind your comments so that you know.
This was not targeted at you
This was not targeted at you (and to make sure of things, if I ever sound like I'm in opposition with something, it will be with an idea, not a person). And maybe some of exasperation that exhaled from my last comment was more from seeing so much effort put into words where it could go into making stuff...
(Half of the blame was on myself for not doing what I had set to do, yet)
PS: Threaded discussions are so bad at keeping the context clear...
I said just that it would be
I said just that it would be ideal to centralize our (I mean, Japanese Drupal users) efforts into one portal site, and I didn't say it should be groups.drupal.org/Japan. As you said, Scott, groups.drupal.org has limitations in terms of functions, so it can be a good idea to have an outside site and make it a central place for Japanese information. Obviously, this issue has nothing to do with whether people should act outside of such a central site if they face a problem which they cannot solve with that central site. We can discuss about this issue. Anyway, the discussion has just begun.
By the way, almost every idea has its pros and cons, and each idea may have some facts. So, let's have a constructive discussion, rather than argument.
Aki Iwata
FOREST & trees
細かな話はMeetingで。
その前に、ちょっとみなさんに誤解されるといやなので
1）Localzationサーバーについて
Scott wrote:
僕の発言は、
qchan wrote:
と書いています。
Localizationサーバー活動を個人サイトでして欲しいなどとは書いていませんので誤解無いようお願いしますね。
2）g.d.o以外にサイトやグループを作って活動すること
Scott wrote:
の部分ですが、
以前、あなたはこう書いています。
http://groups.drupal.org/node/22570#comment-79105
長いので引用は控えたいのですが、、、
Scott Wrote:
この数ヶ月、グループを複数作りたい、地域別にしたい、分野別にしたい、サイトを外部に作りたい、と幾度も同じ議題を出して来られていますよね。
この発言後もオーガナイザとして振る舞い続けておられるように感じるのですが、矛盾はないでしょうか。
あまりレスが来ないということは、みなさん乗り気ではないということなんですよ。
返事がないということは承認されたと云うことではないんです。
しかし、どんどん先へ進まれてしまいますね。。
このスレッドでも何度も意見が欲しいと書かれています。
http://groups.drupal.org/node/23165#comment-80491
http://groups.drupal.org/node/23165#comment-80520
http://groups.drupal.org/node/23165#comment-80491
http://groups.drupal.org/node/23165#comment-80233
http://groups.drupal.org/node/23165#comment-80940
このままでは、発言をしなければ承認と判断されてしまいそうなので思い切って意見を述べました。
あなたはオーガナイザーではないと仰っていますが、
“グループを外部に作りたい”
”しかし反対意見がある”
”繰り返し議題を持ち出す”
”自分で作ったり、立ち上げはしないが、「バックシートDriver」として動きたいと云う”
”管理者候補は誰々と名前を挙げる”
”反対意見があると、長文のコメントを上げる”
この流れでは、このグループの人に「あなたたちには外部サイトが必要なのだから、サイトを作れ」とオーガナイザーが云っているのと同じように思われてしまいますよ。
現在、このグループはまだ人も少なくアクティブに発言する人も少ない段階ですよね。
この段階で、誰が個別のグループやサイトで活動しようとしているのですか？
そこに人はいるのですか？ 一人でSNSをするのではないでしょう？
合理的な理由が僕には見つけられないですね。
まず、ユーザーを増やすこと、発言しやすい環境を作ること。
それからしか事は始まらないんじゃないでしょうか。
以前の荒れたスレッドと同じ展開になるのはうんざりしている人も多いでしょう。
こんな事が続くとコミュニティの拡大を阻害してしまいます。
もう少し、発言しやすい空気をつくる配慮をお願いしたいです。
発言しやすいサイト
矛盾してるでしょう、発言しやすいサイトにしようと言ってることと、私に対して引っ込めとかコメントしてるの？それ以外に俺個人に対していいかげんな事書くんだったらメールか電話して来たら、俺もウンザリだしまた前回のような事になるの。
翻訳に関して：Translat
翻訳に関して：Translation mailing list に翻訳ファイルの著作権について聞いてみました。
http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/translations/2009-June/000728.html
Translation team coordinatorのkilles、ライセンスに詳しいらしいLarry Garfield, l10nの著者Gábor Hojtsyが返信してくれたのを総合すると、「解釈による」というオチです :p ただ、僕のメールにあるように、アメリカにおいては翻訳は派生物ということになるので、訳者はコピーライトを有さないことになります。Garretのサーバーがアメリカにあるのならこれが適用されると思います。
また、先に提案したように、コピーライトの放棄（または中立的第三者へのコピーライトの委譲）を参加のルールとすることで、大体の問題は回避できると思います。
日本でDrupal coreの翻訳が問題になっている理由のほとんどは、翻訳ファイルのコミット権を一人しか持っていないことに起因していると思いますが、寄贈モジュールは既にコミッターが存在するので、そういう問題も防げると思います。翻訳サーバーも、民主的なルールをもって管理運営することでそういう問題は回避できるのでは。
====================
I sent an email to the translation mailing list to ask about validity of copyright claimed on translation files. Killes, Larry Garfield and Gábor Hojtsy replied to me and basically they all have a different view :p
http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/translations/2009-June/000728.html
But as described in my email, in the States translation is considered a derivative of the original work. So as long as Garret's server is in the States this law applies and no one can claim copyright.
Besides, as I proposed (in Japanese only, sorry) if we have people disclaim copyright on their work when they get involved (or transfer copyright to a neutral third party), most of the copyright issues are sorted.
The problem with translation of Drupal core in Japan (if you don't know email me) originates in the fact that there is only one committer. Since contrib modules already have committers, that will probably allow us to avoid such an issue. We can also manage the translation server under a democratic rules to avoid much of those issues.
Leave
Indian Drupal communities to Indians (and their members). :-p
(And the United States are so huuuuuge and it's natural they have so many communities GRIN)
(And they also says "When in Rome, d (ry ")
Shin @ sometimes talkin' to myself
//Pizza at "Napoli no kama (Pizza Oven at Naples)" was so delicious. I enjoyed it.
//And I'm really excited there holds F1 British GP this weekend. Hope Jenson Button wins again !!
In Japan..
In Japan we follow the crowd. Put in that context, we should follow the Drupal crowd world-wide.
Poll created
Poll created.
There's an interesting
There's an interesting conversation going on in the translation mailing list:
http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/translations/2009-July/000751.html
By the way, I've had my new
By the way, I've had my new web server up and running fairly well for a couple weeks now. If there's still momentum for this drupaljp.org/l10n.drupaljp.org thing (though in actual practice the translation part probably won't be on a subdomain) and for me hosting it, now's not a bad time to get started. Are we ready?
The Boise Drupal Guy!
I'm up for it, but let's
I'm up for it, but let's wait and see until the end of August. Killes and few others are keen to get the central server up and running by then. If they manage to do that, we wouldn't need to manage the server ourselves. According to Fernando, efforts required to manage a translation server is not negligible. If we can use the central server there will be much less overhead and thus more time for actual translation work.
Hmm, this post about
Hmm, this post about Localize.Drupal.org seems to indicate that the central server is still quite a ways off…
The Boise Drupal Guy!
Thanks Garret for the link.
Thanks Garret for the link. Yeah, it seems Gábor envisages the server to be equipped with a number of fancy features, rather than a simple collaboration platform. While his long-term perspective is attractive, it will be nice to have something we can start using.
But again it is Gábor's perspective. Since Killes is keen to get the server up and running before Drupalcon, it's worth asking at the translation mailing list what other people's thoughts are.
IMO it will be good to try out with your server to explore both the human side and technical side of things. Some of the important things we need to consider are:
Human side:
- ownership of translations
- standardisation of terms and how to manage the info
Technical side:
- how to participate
- maintenance of the l10n server
- how to release the translations
As I said earlier I'm all up for it, but I'm massively snowed under and wouldn't be able to do any actual work on this until I'm back from the Drupalcon.
I think you're right on
I think you're right on this. The centralized translation server thing is all great and swell, but it's been about (or more than) a year.
On a side note, Open Atrium has set a localization server to centralize the localization efforts for Atrium (translation.openatrium.com). I think their model for making the translation files available for download and so on is quite good. They've made some additions/customization the server from what I've read and they will probably be releasing it too.
There also a thread somewhere (sorry can't find it now...) discussing about having servers be able to share back some strings with the central server (since some of the work done for Open Atrium might also be proposed back for core translation when applicable)
I think if there's no move around drupalcon, we could also just start/continue our experiment with the server Garrett had put up (or use the domain you reserved, etc.) and just export/import the work done when there's a centralized architecture.
http://lists.drupal.org/piper
http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/translations/2009-August/000776.html
I'll attend the session and see what the plans are, including the time frame.
-double posted-
-double posted-
The localization service is going live soon
An interesting post by Jose Reyero (developpement seed, i18n module) about the very soon to be online drupal centralized translation server.
http://www.reyero.net/en/node/178
※英語のみなのでだれかに簡単な日本語のresumeお願いできますでしょうか。
live or proposal?
The article at http://www.reyero.net/en/node/178 seems more like a proposal as the title of that page suggests than an announcement of localization server going live.
Did you read the article before posting?
It is the first paragraph at the top of the post...
Then there's a proposal, yes.
...
Maybe
Maybe there's something that you know that I don't know..
Like ..
who this guy is
by Jose Reyero (developpement seed, i18n module).
Packaging Drupal translations: a proposal の訳
早くこの仕組みが動くようになるといいですね。
client<->server<->clientで同期できたら便利だと思ってましたが、確かに問題も多いかも。
現実的なプランだと思います。
以下、超訳です。
＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋＋
http://www.reyero.net/en/node/178
新しい "Drupal localization site"が近々オープンするということですが、私達にはまだ達成すべき事が残っています。例えば、「既存の飜訳と新しいものをどのようにパッケージすればよいのか」のようなことです。
私達はそのことについて、考え・議論してきました。以下はパッケージングに関する私の提案です。
実際に動いている飜訳サーバーの動きを見てみたいなら、Open Atriumの最新開発版をチェックしてみてください。多くを説明するのは省きますが、あとで説明するように、これは（Drupal+有名モジュール）だけの限定されたケースです。しかし、とりあえずは自動的に飜訳をダウンロード・インポート・アップデートするというコンセプトのよい実例になっています。そう！ 実際に動いているんですよ！
drupal.orgのTranslation server(飜訳サーバー）にとって、私達が必要とする要件はもう少し複雑になるかもしれません。
要件について
○Drupalのインストーラーからそのまま、飜訳ファイルがダウンロード・インポートが出来ること。
○有効にしているモジュールは自動的に飜訳がアップデートされること。
○一つのモジュールだけの飜訳が出来ること、必要のない文字列を飜訳したくはないですからね。
○client siteではツールやライブラリーを必要としないこと。また、安いレンタルサーバーでも動くこと（スピードやメモリの問題）。
○フルパッケージのダウンロード、再パッケージされたDrupalの配布が出来るようにすること。
○DrushやAegir（インストールやアップデートをスクリプトで書けるようにするツール）のようなサイト管理の自動化ツールをサポートすること。
もう十分複雑にみえますね。しかし、サーバー・サイドのことだけを考えると要件は次のようになります。
簡単な仕様について
○poファイルを公開、圧縮ツールは必要なし。ダウンロードすら必要なし。リモートのファイルを開いてデータベースにインポートするだけ。
○どの飜訳ファイルが使えるのか、それはいつアップデートされたのかをわかるような情報をつけて公開する。
○ファイルは言語によって大きいかもしれないし、小さいかもしれない。なので必要な部分だけ自分のサイトに取り込めるようにする。また、小さな単位のプロセスに分けることでスピードの低下やメモリーの使用量を減らすことが出来る。
私達は最初の2つの項目についてはOpen Atriumのシステムとして動かすことに成功しています。しかし、飜訳ファイルを含んだ3,000ものモジュールを一つのパッケージとして動かすことはできません。
Drupalの問題として、ちょっとこれはやっかいなことです。しかし不可能ではありません。私達のサーバー（訳者注：translate.openatrium.comのこと)には、ほぼ100にのぼる言語、毎週のようにアップデートされる、バージョン管理された3000のパッケージがあり、毎日、数千のサイトからアクセスされ、飜訳ファイルがダウンロードされています。このことから実質的にシンプルで素早い解決策を引き出せます。不必要なデータベース・検索によってサーバーをダウンさせることもないでしょう。以下で述べてみます。
解決策について
○わかりやすいフォルダ構成のpoファイルを公開するだけ。
○そして、飜訳ファイルは定期的にサーバーからこんな感じでアレンジされてエクスポートされる。
core/package/release/language/type/name.po
Drupal core 6.11 system moduleのスペイン語翻訳ファイルはこんな風に。
6.x/drupal/6.11/es/modules/system.po
フルパッケージの飜訳ダウンロードや他の管理ツールに関しては、Apacheのon-the-fly圧縮：mod_gzipが使えます。
そして、Drupal core全体のスペイン語翻訳ファイルをダウンロードしたいなら、
6.x/drupal/6.11/es.tar.gz
また、おなじパッケージの全ての飜訳ファイルをダウンロードしたいなら、
6.x/drupal/6.11.tar.gz
最初に’6.x’とあるのは、将来のDrupalのバージョンに対応するためで、
'7.x'にも変えられます。未来のことも考えていますよ。
しかし、どうやってファイルを見つければいいのか？ アップデートは？
Apacheのindexファイルをカスタマイズするのと同じくらい簡単に、HTMLではなくXMLを作成する事が出来ます。mod_autoindexを見てください。
それなら、client sideはどうなるの？
もし、PHPがローカルファイルと同じようにリモートサーバーのファイルを開くことが出来ると考えるなら、何も問題はありません。新しいモジュールをインストールする時、私達が作るインストーラーは以下のように動くでしょう。
1, このモジュールと飜訳ファイルをローカルファイルから探す
2, もし、なければリモートのサーバーを探す
3, ファイルの中身（ローカルからでもリモートからでも）をローカルのデータベーステーブルにインポートするだけ
そう、これがアイデアです。恐ろしく簡単、サーバーサイドでは超速、私達が作るのはパッケージするスクリプトだけです。
翻訳あいがとうござ
翻訳あいがとうございます。
update
FYI:
http://lists.drupal.org/pipermail/translations/2009-August/000777.html
Should we ask Gábor to import anything at this stage? Since we (those who have shown their interests in this thread) are not really a team yet or don't have any translation files of our own, I don't find it appropriate.
Any thoughts?
Indeed, we don't really have
Indeed, we don't really have anything to migrate. Or anybody.
But it's cool to see that it's progressed to this point.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
We might as well as..
We might as well as form another Drupal Group based in Japan, dedicated to the localization server, due to some tendencies we have. It's very clear to me why we don't already have a team, and I don't think it would be too difficult to understand.