Posted by Brian294 on October 10, 2011 at 12:53am
update: There is some relevant comments about CODUG and Drupal Camp Ohio in the comments, so Doug V was kind enough to update the post date of this so it was more visable.
I suck at graphic design. But, I thought it would be neat to have a logo to represent our group. Maybe someone with more creative talent can take this idea and run with it. See below:
UPDATE 10/05/2009 @ 10:59PM
revised: CODUG gone, text higher, added a domain name (what do you think, should I register it and point it to our drupal groups page?)
Peace,
Brian
Comments
I like it
Simple to the point
I like it too
I would recommend removing the CODUG, then move the words up... and add the URL to the bottom in much smaller text. You could stick the CODUG somewhere, but I don't see where that acronym is so crucial. Isn't it just something we use when talking to each other.
I've always had to explain what it stands for anyway.
great point
I was thinking the same thing with the CODUG. it's not really needed. And, would anyone object if I registered a domain name for our group? It would serve as a succinct pointer to groups.drupal.org/central-ohio codug.com is available and I am willing to secure it for us.
codug.COM
We're not a commercial enterprise, we shouldn't be a .COM. It gives the wrong impression. I know codug.org is taken, maybe we can come up with a different .ORG we could get?
very legitimate concern
I understand where you are coming from.
From my point of view, .com is almost universal nowadays. I see churches registering .coms all the time because they are the 300th "first baptist" church to register a domain name. LOL
I did consider a domain like centralohiodrupal.org, but I personally dislike long domain names. And, technically our local chapter is not a registered 501(c)3 non-profit organization.
I'm sure you know this, domain names are non-refundable and cannot be altered after purchase. I am willing to eat the cost of codug.com if the community feels strongly that I erred.
Let's vote.
Peace,
Brian
codug.com
I put in place the changes discussed. Also, what do you think about me registering codug.com and pointing it to our groups.drupal.org page?
Logo looks good. I don't see
Logo looks good. I don't see a problem with registering it and pointing it to the users group. It will make it easier to point people to the group.
it's official
codug.com points to our g.d.o site now. we finally have a shorthand url!
The courier font for the url
The courier font for the url is a bit ugly imo. But that's kind of a subjective thing.
Nice work on the logo.
thanks
i'll tinker around with it more sometime tonight. do you prefer serifs in your fonts?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serif
Sometimes, but I find Courier
Sometimes, but I find Courier [New] to be a bit thin and weird-looking most of the time. My font recollection is escaping me at the moment for good fixed-width fonts.
I disagree there
Though I understand the possible conflict if we are going to stick with codug as the acronym, I think we should bite the bullet and use .com in lieu of a less intuitive url.
I have to admit I found it hilarious that DB2 has a users groups in town. which group do you think has more members, maybe we could duke it out for codug.org :)
LOL!
I almost offered them cash to give up their domain name.
db2
Use it at work. Seems I know the treasurer....
When presented with a decision, choose both
Why can't we do both? For SEO purposes the longer url (centralohiodrupal.org) will be good for attracting new members via search. (I actually think this should be the official and CODUG is used exactly how we use it, internally.)
I think there is no good reason not to use CODUG.com, it has the benefit of just typing CODUG and browser doing the rest (at least on my mac). The vast majority of people I work with always add .com out of habit even when they mean to add .org.
I agree that courier is not the best choice, but kudos to you for doing something. If your doing the paying and forwarding... it is just a community service. Does the group actually have money? If so, then it should pay for it and own it and therefore it becomes a group issue, otherwise... it is your baby.
And just to be technical, because I'm like that; 501c3 is not a .org requirement it simply should be non-commercial. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc920
referencing domain not logo
I think I mashed to many independent thoughts together.
I'll rephrase:
"If your doing the paying and forwarding of the domain name... it is just a community service to the group. However, if the group has money, the domain should probably be registered in the name of the group, and paid for by the group. Otherwise, it is your baby, we should all just say thanks."
I can change the registrant
I can change the registrant of this domain in less than 5 minutes, so correcting the ownership is a piece of cake. As for the group paying for the domain, regardless of how we came to the decision, someone would have had to purchase it using their personal credit card anyway. So, group payment would be everyone chipping in buck at our next meeting. I wasn't going to even ask for money as I consider it a privilege to help this group grow.
I highly disagree with multiple domains pointing to the codug site. It's becomes a branding issue at that point. We need consistency with how we present ourselves and the URLs we advertise. And, multiple domains for the purpose of SEO can actually work against us. Google tends to rank those sites lower because it's considered "duplicate" content. And, we've done surprising well with SEO without a domain. Just Google ohio drupal, we're already #1.
I never intended this domain to become my baby. That's really poor leadership. We've always been codug from the beginning, so it naturally makes sense to secure the domain that best represents our current branding.
Again, if the group does not wish to have codug.com, I will acknowledge my error by disabling the domain and let the group decide what they would like to have.
Peace,
Brian
[shrug]
Didn't mean to imply anything.. So no worries.
Yeah and your right about the google ranking, and SEO... so I'm happy with CODUG.com
Just contributing commentary :-)
thanks Paul. Your commentary
thanks Paul.
Your commentary is very valuable! If no one said anything, then I would seriously be bummed. You care, and it shows.
Stay tuned for a new discussion that I'll be starting. We have an opportunity to double or triple the size of our group over the next six months. But, it will require an investment. More details to follow.
Peace,
Brian
since we're getting technical
Paul knows me well enough that I'm smiling as I write this, and not meant with an animosity. If you want to get technical centralohiodrupal.org won't help with SEO as Google/Yahoo/Bing et al... make no attempt to parse urls. If you want Google to parse it you have to separate the words with dashes, central-ohio-drupal.org (not underscores), as Google interprets those as white space. Further g.d.o handle SEO optimization anyway.
On another note we have bantered about hosting a Drupal camp, if we do we will have to register as a 501(c)3 in order to allow sponsors to take a tax deduction on their sponsorship gfts. Not to mention we will want that legal entity to open a bank account.
Personally I love these discussions, all of these things are a sign that enough of us care enough that we actually have an opinion.
Jim
Thanks Jim
I was trying to bow out gracefully, after realizing how incorrect my previous post was. :-)
I'm not against becoming a 501(c)3, but...
I'm not against becoming a 501(c)3, but... it's hard to justify the startup costs given the current size of our group. We're looking at hundreds of dollars to file the paperwork, and that's assuming we don't get a lawyer involved. Plus, we would have to formalize directors for the purpose of creating this entity and that level of organization would require some major administrative changes with how we do things.
I totally agree that a 501(c)3 makes a lot of sense if a lot of money is already coming in from sources that demand a non-profit write off. But, does it really make sense in our case? I see tremendous opportunity to get money with corporate sponsorships. We could literally bring in $1000's of dollars from existing technology companies that [want to] affiliate themselves with Drupal. From a tax perspective, these companies are already eligible to write off those expenses as advertising.
Conversely, I'm not sure what the tax implications would be on our end since we would be receiving money, goods, or services as a "non-entity" (neither a company or a non-profit). We could register to become an LLC ($125 filing fee in Ohio) and then deal with the money coming in as taxable revenue, however, we would spend 100% of that money a business cost to run the Drupal Camp so our net profit would be $0. No profit... no taxes, yes?
Good things to think about!
Peace,
Brian
new thread?
Should we start a new thread for this?
My personal experience is that a 501c3 is putting the cart before the horse. I think a sustainable product or service should exist prior to getting fancy with tax status.
I wasn't meaning to go that far
I wasn't meaning to go that far with it, I was just throwing out the idea. But since we're in the neighborhood if we have $$ we need to dump it at year end, left over funds from Drupal Camp sponsorships, we can always donate it to the the Drupal Association.
That said most corporations will want he 501c3 status as it is cleaner from and accounting perspective.
Looked up the fees it's almost $1,000 to start a c3!
http://www.hurwitassociates.com/l_s_initial_oh.php
CODUG's incorporation options
This is an old thread, but one that has become relevant as we organize Drupal Camp Ohio. I did some research and consulted with an attorney on this one so I wanted to share my findings.
In reference to incorporating CODUG in the State of Ohio (note each state may be slightly different), we have really only 2 options. First as Brian points out we can file as an LLC and Second as a state Non-Profit. The one things that isn't the case from what Brian & I stated said is the filing fees are not in fact $1,000, now you may get there once you hire a lawyer. At the stat level the filing fee for either is $125, with an extra $100 to expedite that filing (expedite gets in done in 1-2 business days in lieu of 2 weeks for a standard filing). The advantage of the Non-profit is the way it's taxed, basically the Non-Profit does not pay taxes as it's individual officers do not make $$. The individual officers of an LLC would have to pay taxes on the "profit" of the organization. I'm not going any further on that as I'm not an attorney or an accountant. If you are thinking the LLC won't make an $$ so no one will have to pay taxes. If a company makes no money for a certain amount of time the IRS will shut it down.
So the state level distinction is important above because you can also file at the federal level for recognition as a 501(c) corporation, in our case 501(c)3 or 501(c)6 would be the most relevant. The reason to file at the federal level is not 100% clear to me but I gather it's because of organization's complexity, size or the need to apply for funds from charitable foundations. If all you want to do is hold a small conference (ie Drupal Camp) and maybe pay for food at some meetings then there is no need to file at the Federal level. If you are going to file for fereral recognition then look at the two types of corporations c3 and c6. c3 is a charitable non-profit that is established for the public good (or something like that, again I'm no lawyer) and c6 is a business league (ie a bunch of people getting together to learn, and promote their common business practice, ie a Trade Association). Either is doable for us, the c3 has the advantage of allowing donors to write-off donations as a charitable contribution on their annual tax filings. Given that all of our $$ is currently coming from companies who can write the sponsorship off as a business expense we don't care about that. Further, c3's are a lot more complex, have considerably more compliance reporting, and simply more $$ to set up there really is no advantage to being a c3.
Hope that helps someone. If you want the lawyer's name, ping me through my contact form.
Rethread this
Can you rethread this so it shows up on the front page.
Rethread this post?
Pat,
Since you are the group Manager and you asked for a "rethread" I took the liberty of using my GDO Moderator perms by resetting the post-date of this thread and resetting it to today's date.
This post now appears at the top of your Central Ohio group front page.
;-)
Incorporation
There is another alternative and that is to create an "unincorporated association", which only requires a $50 "fictitious name registration." Based on our size and overall purpose, there really isn't much of a reason to create an LLC or a full corporation.
Taxation is a wholly separate issue and can only be determined by the IRS. Whether we file a UA, LLC, or NPC is irrelevant to taxation issues, as taxation is a federal level issue.
I don't believe that's
I don't believe that's correct taxation is also a state level issue, I'm talking to an accountant to verify the implications. LLC, NPC has a dramatic affect on the tax status as NPCs are exempt from paying income and use tax at the state level and further 501(c)3 are exempt form Sales tax in some cases (not that we're doing anything that requires sales tax).
there is an option but for us
there is an option but for us its really not a good way to go, we really should be in the 501.c grouping not any for profit entity as that not what we are
for this year the easiest is going to be to get another 501 to "sponcer" us then we get their tax shelter while we go after our own
Also we need to remember that what is we file as an un-incorporated entity and something happens every one of the organizers can be liable for well everything
unincorporated it simply not
unincorporated it simply not an option as you cannot get an EIN number from the IRS, which is necessary to establish a bank account.
UA and EIN
According to the IRS, unincorporated associations can register for and receive an EIN.
Hmm... I was wrong
Hmm... I was wrong then
Honestly it's just not an option as we need to corporate structure to protect members and officers not to mention the tax implications.
Okay spoke with an accountant
Okay spoke with an accountant and an IRS filing for a 501 will be required for the tax exemption federally for an NPC. Consequently I don't see anything happening on this fron in immediate terms.
We should open up a new thread to talk through creating an NPC to act as a fiscal agent though
Another option connected with
Another option connected with the either of the two forms of filing and I'm not a lawyer so I don't have the exact details, but basically if you are a small non-profit that hasn't the budget to file for the federal 501c3 status but want donations to be tax deductible or to take grants then you can get a fiscal sponsorship via another non-profit. Basically the federally registered non-profit acts handles the money and probably takes a small percentage or whatever agreement you come up with and passes the money onto the other organization. This is common practice with small groups that have a limited budget. Since we aren't likely to become a large budgeted organization this is another option. I've been involved in various non-profits over the years and I'm currently the board president of one. What is the current need for a non-profit coming from ? The biggest amount of work is choosing officers, board members, bylaws and holding official meetings. Either way these are some of my thoughts on the matter. I think finding a fiscal sponsor if we need to get large donations for the camp that are going to be tax deductible is the most expedient and at this point only probable way that the donations will be tax deductible as it typically takes at least 6 months or more for 501c3 federal status to be recognized.
Yea there really is not need
Yea there really is not need for the c3 status, ie tax deductions, in the immediate terms as sponsors write off their sponsorship as a business expense (ie marketing/advertising). So I'm not so worried about it to be honest. This question has come up a 1/2 dozen times around the idea of CODUG sponsoring events and such, and I was slow for a couple weeks so I spent some time looking into it. It's also coming up, again, around dealing with OSU's semi-public/non-profit status and them being involved in Drupal Camp Ohio 2011.
Yea the issue there is the
Yea the issue there is the IRS won't assign us an EIN, which they will with a state non-profit or LLC, which means that entity can't open a bank account.
Some questions.
What are the other Drupal Camps doing?
and
Should the Drupal Camp Ohio be a separate entity in regards to this rather than CODUG? That way it could be inclusive of all the Ohio Drupal Groups.
Just wondering.
Why not must make the "Ohio
Why not must make the "Ohio Drupal organization or "The Ohio Drupalers" or the "the Ohio Drupal Assocation" (501.c6)
and that can be an umbrella group for both codug as well as the Ohio drupal camp as well as any other reagional drupal groups that get started up like a dayton or cinci group
To be clear there are no
To be clear there are no plans to file for federal 501c status at this point, unless someone wants to fund that work. :) I don't have much of an opinion in the Ohio umbrella group. Personally I'm not a huge fan of umbrella organizations as they tend to be difficult to maintain and we have enough problems maintaining CODUG's presence to any degree:)
May be wise avoid the words "Drupal Association" in the name as it implies we would be a wing of the DA, which could get messy. Maybe something simple like "Drupal Ohio".
As for other groups it's a mixed bag there was survey done on this point, http://drupal.org/node/846232.
Guys, I have a good friend
Guys, I have a good friend who is a lawyer and may be able to help with coming to a good decision--unless someone else is also able to get a free consult :). Want me to present some of these questions?
Take a look at
Take a look at http://solae.org/ its a group that I have worked with in the past and they are structured kinda the way that would work very well for us to follow after its a 501.c3 organization who umbrella's several other conferences and the conventions. this group any sub group does not need it own tax fillings and is mostly separate they are only connected by their membership to the umbrella each group has it own board, budget member and volunteers
Just to be clear c3's are
Just to be clear c3's are much more work and $$ to establish and provide virtually no benefit unless we are seeking large personal contributions or foundation grants (assuming the foundation involved will only give to a c3). We really should avoid the c3 thing, in lieu of a c6, when the time comes to file at the federal level.
I know about the work in
I know about the work in creating c3 and c6s the company I work for manages "Professional Associations"
and both can take both a lot of time and money to setup, depending money is dependent on the time the volunteers spend. you can also jump start/reduce your cost by modeling your self off a similar group
as for the which to go after the main issue is where you get your money from in a c6 a "trade association" is the most common use you get the money by member dues vs c3 which you cant so you get your moneys by fund raisers and grants most c3 either have a c6 or a company supporting them or are very small
as for the work involved
we need for both
written bylaws and Policy - the big one almost all the time gets used up here
and a few smaller things
both cost the same for the filing
the #1 thing before anything else we need to know what we what the group GOALs & objectives are before anything else