Berlin Q & A IRC meeting

The chatlog from Berlin Q & A IRC meeting 12. Oct. 2009.

20:01 < rokr> hi from berlin
20:02 < isabell> hi
20:02 < luckow> hi isabell
20:02 -!- mortendk [n=mortendk@3108ds4-vbr.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #drupalcon
20:02 < HornCologne> the vikings!
20:02 -!- gdemet [n=gdemet@66.166.38.114] has joined #drupalcon
20:02 -!- macode [n=macode@i59F760CC.versanet.de] has joined #drupalcon
20:03 < mortendk> *gaaaaaargghhhh Attaaaaack ;)
20:03 < Tiburon> HornCologne: with axes and helmets ;-)
20:03 < HornCologne> Okay - I see kvontomme and isabell ... who else is here officially, please?
20:03 < HornCologne> kvantomme, sorry
20:03 < macode> mortendk: our bears will catch you :D
20:03 < HornCologne> And do we have enough of a quorum of inquisitors to get going?
20:04 < mortendk> macode: bhaaaa knut is toast ;)
20:04 < mortendk> what no english men ?
20:04 < isabell> HornCologne: i dont think anyone else is coming. bert and tiffany are not available i think. or tiffany might join later
20:04 < mortendk> HornCologne:  and us from the north will behave :)
20:04 -!- farriss [n=farriss@66.166.38.114] has joined #drupalcon
20:05 < HornCologne> okay - from now, hand system, please. Who would like to start?
20:05 < HornCologne> ...
20:05 < HornCologne> ...
20:05 < HornCologne> Thank you all for coming, see you in Berlin!
20:05 < HornCologne> :-D
20:05 < mortendk> he he he
20:06 < isabell> hand
20:06 < isabell> sorry :)
20:06 < mortendk> in 2011 ;)
20:06 < HornCologne> isabell
20:06 -!- bangpound|lunch is now known as bangpound
20:06 < HornCologne> isabell, you have the floor
20:06 < isabell> what is that transportation ticket about that i you mentioned?
20:06 < HornCologne> ah - good question
20:07 < HornCologne> for about 25 euros (perhaps for less depending on the number we order)
20:07 < HornCologne> we can include an all-city transit ticket for the Berlin subways, trains and buses
20:07 < HornCologne> it's a great deal
20:08 < HornCologne> public transport in Berlin is extremely comprehensive
20:08 < isabell> how would this be included? just adding tickets to the entry ticket?
20:08 < HornCologne> so in our very-preliminary plan for the cheapest tickets
20:08 < isabell> why wouldnt the attendees just get a week ticket themselves?
20:08 < HornCologne> we included it as a fixed cost in the ticket price
20:09 < HornCologne> for one thing, we might be able to get a better price
20:09 -!- mofa [n=cybersch@88.128.58.203] has joined #drupalcon
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20:09 < HornCologne> for another, we want people to use the public transport
20:09 < isabell> how would u be able to get a better price?
20:09 -!- webflo [n=mail@92.228.86.74] has joined #drupalcon
20:09 < HornCologne> Link:
20:09 < HornCologne>  http://www.bvg.de/index.php/en/17179/name/Berlin+WelcomeCard.html
20:09 < HornCologne> If we ask for 2000 week-ticket, I think we might be able to get a group discount
20:10 < mortendk> hand
20:10 < HornCologne> morty
20:10 < kvantomme> hand
20:10 -!- AndreasHaugstrup [n=AndreasH@x1-6-00-18-4d-a7-68-ea.k397.webspeed.dk] has joined #drupalcon
20:10 < HornCologne> Morten first, then Kristof
20:11 < mortendk> so theres gonna be 2000?
20:11 < mortendk> and How long is the travel time from the Hotels to the venue?
20:11 -!- IckZ [n=ickz@e181225002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #drupalcon
20:11 < HornCologne> we don't know how many, we were told to plan for 1500-2000
20:11 < HornCologne> travel time from hotels, hostels and venue varies from 5 Minutes or less upwards
20:11 < luckow> the travel time from city east (mitte) to tu-berlin is about 5 minutes per s-bahn
20:11 < HornCologne> the TU is very, very centrally located
20:11 -!- googletorp [n=torp@0166400103.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #drupalcon
20:11 < mortendk> so 1.5 hours?
20:11 < kvantomme> In the past meetings we had a slightly altered hand system: hand is for new questions, anybody is free to ask deeper questions or to ask further information if it stays on topic
20:12 < HornCologne> within the city and transit system
20:12 < HornCologne> good idea, Kristof.
20:12 < mortendk> what i wanna know is the real travl time
20:12 < amye> hand
20:12 < luckow> 10 minute per feet from city west (zoologischer garten)
20:12 -!- miro_dietiker [n=Miro_Die@195.141.164.46] has joined #drupalcon
20:12 < mortendk> in business hours
20:12 < mortendk> and not what were gonna sell it on ;)
20:12 < HornCologne> luckow is the Berlin lead, btw
20:12 < mortendk> think barcelona we used 40+ to get to the venue ...
20:12 < HornCologne> Map: http://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=technische+Un...
20:13 < HornCologne> Berlin is really built around its public transport
20:13 < mortendk> yup but dont some of the local berlin people know?
20:13 < isabell> i confirm :)
20:13 < HornCologne> yes, lukow answered you
20:13 -!- bertboerland [n=bertboer@willydobbe.xs4all.nl] has joined #drupalcon
20:13 < mortendk> you know even if its buyild like that it can take a looong time to get from a -b
20:13 < AndreasHaugstrup> are s-bahns running again or will they be before drupalcon? I had massive trouble moving around this summer because many s-bahn trains were not available because they were not up to code
20:14 -!- macode [n=macode@i59F760CC.versanet.de] has quit []
20:14 < rokr> mortendk: since berlin has a s-bahn line like a circle everything within is reachable within a half hour for most places.
20:14 < HornCologne> luckow - what about the S-Bahns?=
20:14 < mortendk> rokr:  okay but then its not 5 minuts ;)
20:14 < luckow> link: http://www.fahrinfo-berlin.de/Liniennetz/
20:14 < HornCologne> Morten, we intend to encourage bookings in a tight zone around the venue - as a University
20:15 < HornCologne> there is a lot going on right there
20:15 < luckow> if you see the map, search for s-bahnhof tiergarten
20:15 < fl3a> AndreasHaugstrup: yes, now everything about bvg is ok again
20:15 < HornCologne> BVG = Berlin Transit Authority?
20:15 < HornCologne> Let's move on.
20:15 < HornCologne> Next hand was kvantomme
20:15 < kvantomme> double question:
20:15 < HornCologne> ;-)
20:15 < luckow> bvg= Berliner VerkehrsbBetriebe
20:16 < kvantomme> who will be the co-lead for luckow?
20:16 < rokr> mortendk: if you search hard enough you will find a hotel which is that far away, yes :-)
20:16 < luckow> public transportation
20:16 < HornCologne> STOP
20:16 < HornCologne> hand system only
20:16 < mortendk> rokr:  well it wasnt 5 minuts that was my point ;) ..and now hand system
20:16 < HornCologne> kvantomme, second part of double question?
20:17 < kvantomme> and the other question: do you see it as a potential problem that luckow has only recently joined the drupal community (at least according to his google.org account)?
20:17 < HornCologne> google.org?
20:17 < HornCologne> ;-)
20:17 < kvantomme> oops
20:17 < kvantomme> drupal.org
20:17 < kvantomme> hehe
20:17 < HornCologne> Okay ...
20:17 < HornCologne> We have several people who are "in the running", but we have been running as a pack so far.
20:18 < farriss> hand
20:18 < mortendk> hand
20:18 < luckow> hand
20:18 < HornCologne> I am one candidate, as are Florian Latzel (fl3a) and Frank Spade
20:19 < isabell> how will you decide who will be the co-leads?
20:19 < HornCologne> As to Stefan, he has already organized the Durpal stand at LInuxTag at least twice and is *very* active in the German scene.
20:19 < HornCologne> So Stefan is not at all a potential problem from our perspective - he has Drupal and event experience - and the right attitude!
20:20 < HornCologne> isabell: all our decisions so far have been made in consultation with each other - in the pack, as I said.
20:20 < kvantomme> I'm asking this, cause it's a big burden taking this on, you need serious and lasting motivation, I'm not saying that Stefan doesn't have that of course
20:20 < luckow> my first drupal version was 4.7 -> you can visit the site at http://www.nachspielzeit.org
20:20 < mortendk> hand :)
20:20 < luckow> please stephan not stefan
20:20 < kvantomme> thought so
20:20 < HornCologne> sorry stephan
20:21 < HornCologne> so much longer to type!
20:21 < isabell> hand
20:21 < HornCologne> We understand why you are asking Kristof.
20:21 < HornCologne> The next hand was amye.
20:21 < mortendk> may i come with a follow up for kristofs ?
20:21 < HornCologne> okay - follow up to Morten
20:22 < mortendk> Berlin says it dont wanna have a person on fulltime, is that serious? every other drupalcon so far have cost around 2 man full time - im refering to  http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210#comment-97664
20:22 < HornCologne> go
20:22 < Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210 => DrupalCon Europe 2010  / 2011 in Berlin [UPDATE] => 5 comments, 3 IRC mentions
20:22 < HornCologne> Well, we were told very clearly
20:22 < mortendk> isnt that pie in the sky & wishfull thinking ?
20:22 < HornCologne> that Blue Project would be doing heavy lifting with venue, and associated issues
20:22 < mortendk> i mean its not a camp but a drupalCON
20:22 < HornCologne> we were also told that the DA would be doing the vast majority of sponsor coordination and finances
20:22 < HornCologne> stop Morten
20:22 < farriss> that is all correct.
20:23 < amye> 2 things: 1) Why Berlin and not Cologne? 2) I may not have been clear in my questions http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210#comment-96242, I'm looking to see how project management will play into the business tracks.
20:23 < Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210 => DrupalCon Europe 2010  / 2011 in Berlin [UPDATE] => 5 comments, 4 IRC mentions
20:23 < HornCologne> so we believe at this point that we will be able to manage - time will tell, I guess.
20:23 < mortendk> HornCologne:  ok :)
20:23 < HornCologne> Now to amye ...
20:23 < kvantomme> at least 2 months before dcon you'll have so much community mail that you will need somebody full time.
20:24 < kvantomme> ask Isabell, she had Blueproject helping, but there was still a lot of work
20:24 < amye> Thx, HornCologne.
20:24 < HornCologne> That is not the message we got out of the Paris meeting, BUT our plans are not set in stone, Kristof.
20:24 < farriss> kvantomme: the plan is to have Blueproject take on much more than in Paris
20:24 < HornCologne> We are flexible and can set this up any way it seems necessary.
20:25 < mortendk> hand
20:25 < DamZ> I'm with mortendk and kvantomme that this is wishful thinking
20:25 < DamZ> (but a common misconception inside the DA)
20:25 < HornCologne> DamZ: I repeat, we were told in several channels that it wouldn't be allowed in a proposal or necessary
20:25 < HornCologne> I also repeat that our plans are not set in stone - it is early days
20:26 < mortendk> hand
20:26 < HornCologne> Hand to this topic?
20:26 < isabell> no
20:26 < mortendk> nopes
20:26 < isabell> hand after amye
20:26 < HornCologne> Okay - amye, please repeat your question
20:26 < amye> 2 things: 1) Why Berlin and not Cologne? 2) I may not have been clear in my questions http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210#comment-96242, I'm looking to see how project management will play into the business tracks.
20:26 < Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210 => DrupalCon Europe 2010  / 2011 in Berlin [UPDATE] => 5 comments, 5 IRC mentions
20:26 < DamZ> HornCologne: it is not forbidden to have some critical thinking in your proposal
20:26 < HornCologne> Berlin over Cologne because:
20:26 -!- adub [i=57c23d3e@gateway/web/freenode/x-moqyhowjiqvkmsjz] has joined #drupalcon
20:27 < HornCologne> Cologne already had DrupalCamp and we want to spread the love
20:27 < kvantomme> hand
20:27 -!- m0oman [n=honigfer@HSI-KBW-095-208-010-152.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #drupalcon
20:27 < HornCologne> Because Berlin is more "famous" and some North American visitors seem to be nervous about places they haven't heard of ;-)
20:27 < HornCologne> Because Berlin is an awesome place, full of IT business, the capital of Germany, etc.
20:28 < mortendk> hand on berlin?
20:28 < amye> Berlin doesn't have a really active Drupal community..
20:28 < m0oman> moo.
20:28 < HornCologne> Berlin's Drupal community has run an awesome Drupal stand at LInuxTag for at least 2 years
20:28 < HornCologne> and I want to make one thing very clear here:
20:29 -!- bertboerland [n=bertboer@willydobbe.xs4all.nl] has quit []
20:29 < HornCologne> this is a proposal for DrupalCon Germany
20:29 < HornCologne> our planning team includes people from Cologne, Hannover, Berlin, and many other places
20:29 < mortendk> How many Berlin "locals" are actually in the planning group? - so they know the city? im thinking about social / drupalgangers etc?
20:29 < HornCologne> the German Drupal scene is blossoming
20:29 < adub> hand
20:29 < fl3a> amye: i thinks thats not right, dug berln meets twice a month
20:29  * mortendk sorry if i blew the loose hand ...
20:29 < HornCologne> Berlin locals in the group ca. 6
20:29 < HornCologne> as far as I know
20:30 < HornCologne> and yes, the Berlin DUG meets more often than the Cologne group :-)
20:30 < amye> Ok, now to the project management question..
20:30 < HornCologne> yes, As to your 2nd question, please clarify, I don't understand.
20:31 < gdemet> hand
20:31 < amye> We desperately need more PMs in the community, that's where this is coming from. Most often, PM sessions get thrown into 'business' track. I'm really wanting to see more of those sessions promoted.
20:31 -!- macode [n=admin@mail.qualitytravel-berlin.de] has joined #drupalcon
20:31 < HornCologne> Ah
20:31 < HornCologne> okay
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20:31 < farriss> followup to the first question?
20:31 < HornCologne> well ... if that is a concern, there is no reason not to give those sessions real prominence, or to have a PM track
20:31 < HornCologne> but we have no control over session proposals, etc.
20:32 < gdemet> i also have a followup to the first question, not sure if the same question farriss has
20:32 < HornCologne> I for one, would be happy to give it more love.
20:32  * farriss defers to gdemet 
20:32 < HornCologne> We could consider findinf a PM guru as keynote, too. - Ideas?
20:32 < HornCologne> gdemet
20:32 < HornCologne> go
20:32 < mortendk> hand
20:32 < amye> HornCologne: I'll think on it, expect to hear much more from me on PM.
20:32 < gdemet> my question is if this is a Drupalcon Germany proposal, is Berlin not necessarily set in stone?
20:32 < luckow> here in berlin there are a lot of agency interested in drupal eg aperto, berlin online, pixelpark
20:32 < gdemet> i.e., could it be another city?
20:33 < HornCologne> amye: looking forward to it!
20:33 < kvantomme> you do have control over session proposals: if you do a call for certain tracks, you'll get more proposals
20:33 < HornCologne> thank you kvantomme
20:33 < HornCologne> No, Berlin was chosen in a democratic, community process as our city
20:33 < kvantomme> you can also have track responsibles who ask specific people to do specific talks...
20:33 < HornCologne> but it was chosen by the German community
20:34 < gdemet> okay, because personally speaking, i actually find Cologne easier to get to than Berlin
20:34 < HornCologne> so do I ;-)
20:34 < gdemet> the "more people have heard of it" argument isn't a compelling one for me
20:34 < HornCologne> however, Berlin is only a train ride away
20:34 < amye> gdemet: +1.
20:34 < luckow> 4 hours from cologne via train ;-)
20:35 < kvantomme> in Cologne you would have an intercontinental hub, that puts you on the same level as London
20:35 < HornCologne> The only reason that counts is that we had an open poll and discussions. Furthermore,
20:35 < gdemet> Right, but adds another 4 hours to my trip from the states
20:35 < HornCologne> we all agree it would be a great place for it.
20:35 < gdemet> Cologne is much more accessible
20:35 < mortendk> hand
20:35 < m0oman> HornCologne: the people that voted for berlin agree. ;)
20:35 < luckow> gdemet: take a plane to berlin NOT to cologne ;-)
20:35 < gdemet> luckow: no direct flights from Chicago to Berlin
20:36 < gdemet> but there are to Cologne
20:36 < gdemet> and Frankfort
20:36 < HornCologne> What can we do for you gdemet?
20:36 < luckow> ok. the capital of germany without a direct fly.
20:36 < gdemet> IMO, Szeged didnt' have as many folks attending because it required a train ride from the nearest international airport
20:37 < HornCologne> Berlin and Szeged are WORLDS apart
20:37 < gdemet> i do understand that's less of an issue for Berlin, but it's still less accessible than other German cities
20:37 < HornCologne> in their transport connections
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20:37 < gdemet> HornCologne: no argument there
20:37 -!- mikl [n=mikl@drupal.org/user/56879/view] has quit []
20:37 < HornCologne> I disagree, sorry. Connections to Berlin from Frankfurt and Cologne go every hour.
20:38 < kvantomme> if the German team has closed this the discussion on this we don't need to go further in on this,
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20:38 < DamZ> hand
20:38  * mortendk must admit that german trains are rock solid 
20:38 < HornCologne> Thankyou Kristof
20:38 < rokr> gdemet: this maybe be right for direct flights from chicago. berlin has two airports and for sure more direct connections than cologne. b
20:38 < kvantomme> this is the proposal for Berlin not for Germany
20:38 -!- opalescent [n=opalesce@p57B9FDAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #drupalcon
20:38 < HornCologne> but it is a German proposal
20:38 < mortendk> could we move on?
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20:38 < kvantomme> so we evaluate what's on the table, we don't need to chance the proposal
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20:38 < HornCologne> not a Berlin-only proposal
20:38 < HornCologne> fine
20:38 < HornCologne> next hand was fariss
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20:38 < farriss> I wanted to ask about the relationship with the Drupal Initiative (DI)
20:39 < HornCologne> please do
20:39 < HornCologne> In what regard?
20:39 < farriss> As Germany has the first national Drupal group, I was wondering at what level they will be supporting this proposal and 2) gauge their support of the "new" model of DrupalCons with greater DA involvement
20:40 -!- bertboerland [n=bertboer@willydobbe.xs4all.nl] has joined #drupalcon
20:40 < HornCologne> The DI was created in the first place to support exactly such an event. As planning is still extremely provisional, the exact nature and relationship still needs to be found.
20:40 < HornCologne> The entire leadership committee is here in this chat tonight.
20:41 < mortendk> hand
20:41 < HornCologne> The new model has not been without controversy in Europe in general. I cannot speak for the DI's position on this.
20:41 < fl3a> farriss: eg. we get 1/2 price for the venue if a ngo rents it
20:41 < HornCologne> yes, we do, that is correct.
20:42 < HornCologne> that might even be true for the DA itself, but legal issues in Germany are always complex
20:42 < mortendk> HornCologne:  so you say that germany & DI is "As planning is still extremely provisional"  is that a good working ground for drupalcon ?
20:42 < rDouglass> farriss: sorry to interrupt: I'm here with the entire board of directors of the DI.
20:42 < rDouglass> May I field the question?
20:42 < luckow> yepp
20:42 < farriss> rDouglass: yes please :)
20:42 < HornCologne> field the question please
20:42 < HornCologne> and Morten's follow-up
20:43 < mortendk> rDouglass:  go go
20:43 < rDouglass> farriss: For the DI to enter a contract with the technical school in Berlin we'd first need to come to a legal agreement with the DA
20:43 < rDouglass> We'd be willing to do so, of course.
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20:43 < Tiburon> followup hand
20:43 < rDouglass> We are completely legally established here.
20:43 < farriss> so that is a requirement for that venue?
20:44 < rDouglass> Only for the discount.
20:44 < farriss> gotcha
20:44 < rDouglass> If the DA doesn't want the 50% then we are unneeded.
20:44 < HornCologne> Tiburon?
20:44 < rDouglass> If the DA wants the 50% then we need to make a contract.
20:44 < rDouglass> done.
20:44  * farriss notes that we're talking about a €24,550 discount.
20:44 < Tiburon> I need some clarification on DI status ... just wrap my head around it ...
20:45 < HornCologne> rDouglass, please
20:45 < rDouglass> what's the question?
20:45 < Tiburon> is DI an umprella organisation for the local groups, or is DI the only legal group?
20:45 < Tiburon> .. if tat is clear
20:45 < rDouglass> Ok.
20:45 < rDouglass> The DI is the only legal group that I know of in Germany.
20:46 < rDouglass> We have a license to use "Drupal" in our name
20:46 < Tiburon> ok
20:46 < rDouglass> we have a bank account, lawyers, and an accounting firm.
20:46 < rDouglass> We have € in the bank,
20:46 < rDouglass> and several events under our belts.
20:46 < mortendk> rDouglass:  which ones?
20:46 < rDouglass> But we have no official involvement in the DrupalCon until the Drupal Association asks us to have one and makes a contract with us.
20:46 < Tiburon> the Q was to get a picture of your structure.
20:47 < Tiburon> done
20:47 < rDouglass> Tiburon: did I answer?
20:47 < mortendk> may i ask my question again ?
20:47 < HornCologne> ask, Morty
20:47 < mortendk>  so you say that germany & DI is "As planning is still extremely provisional"  is that a good working ground for drupalcon ?
20:47 < mortendk> not that i question that we should have a drupalcon in germany - just to be clear :)
20:47 < rDouglass> May I address mortendk ?
20:47 < HornCologne> I would assume our planning is about as provisional as yours
20:48 < HornCologne> until we sign contracts with the DA, we can't really begin
20:48 < mortendk> HornCologne:  copenhagen +1 outside ;)
20:48 < HornCologne> rDouglass, go
20:48 < rDouglass> Ok.
20:48 < farriss> rDouglass: so for this relationship between the DA and the DI, do you envision the DI as providing access to the venue discount primarily or having other fiscal/fiduciary responsibility as well?
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20:48 < rDouglass> farriss: I'll answer that after mortendk
20:48 < HornCologne> farriss, hand please
20:48 < farriss> hand
20:48 < HornCologne> rDouglass has the floor
20:49 < rDouglass> mortendk: There is unclarity in the current system when it comes to the legal responsibilities of the local group and the legal relationship with the DA.
20:49 < isabell> are you guys still taking the hands into account from earlier?
20:49 < isabell> if not, here is mine again
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20:49 < rDouglass> HornCologne said "extremely provisional" in part because this question has not been fully answered by the DA.
20:49 < kvantomme> my hand too ;)
20:49 < HornCologne> now rDouglass answers two questions, them Luckow (if still relevant), then isabell
20:49 < adub> my hand too
20:49 < HornCologne> them kvantomme
20:49 < HornCologne> then adub
20:50 < rDouglass> Now, to farriss
20:50 < rDouglass> The DI would gladly facilitate DrupalCon in Berlin.
20:50 < rDouglass> That is what we were created to do.
20:50 < rDouglass> But as we are a formal legal entity we'd need a formal legal understanding with the DA.
20:50 < rDouglass> We would gladly enable the DA to get the discount
20:50 < mortendk> hand
20:51 < rDouglass> and have no further demands, as long as the contract doesn't expose us to extra riscks.
20:51 < rDouglass> risks.
20:51 < DamZ> I had a hand, too
20:51 < rDouglass> farriss: did that address your question?
20:51 < farriss> rDouglass: yes absolutely thanks
20:51 < rDouglass> done
20:51 < HornCologne> ah, sorry DamZ
20:51 < HornCologne> okay - DamZ, please
20:51 -!- bangpound [n=bjd@c-71-239-180-183.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit []
20:52 < HornCologne> Then: isabell, kvantomme, adub and Morty
20:52 < DamZ> I would like to know what you consider the main objectives of Drupalcon Berlin are?
20:52 < HornCologne> fantastic question, thank you
20:52 < DamZ> ie. what would make a successful Drupalcon Berlin in your opinion?
20:53 < HornCologne> This will take a sec ...
20:53 < HornCologne> So Germany is a puzzling place to be in Drupal - German is the 2nd most used Drupal translation
20:53 < HornCologne> and the 2nd most used internet language
20:53 < HornCologne> but for all the Drupal shops here and all the Drupal devs,
20:54 < HornCologne> there is some motivation missing and some community feeling missing
20:54 < HornCologne> we need to come together as a community and as a project
20:54 < HornCologne> to help Drupal break through in the German-speaking countries
20:54 < HornCologne> (German is the native language of 100 million people)
20:54 < HornCologne> and there is huge potential here
20:54 < HornCologne> for work and projects and all that
20:55 < HornCologne> We think that a well-promoted Drupal con
20:55 < mortendk> hand?
20:55 < HornCologne> would bring the Germans together with the rest of Europe
20:55 < HornCologne> and the world
20:55 < HornCologne> We think a DrupalCon can bring new developers into the fold
20:55 < DamZ> "well-promoted"... in which audience?
20:55 < HornCologne> and new clients, too
20:55 < HornCologne> well- promoted
20:56 < HornCologne> to enterprize, government, NGP, developers, universities, libraries
20:56 -!- bertboerland [n=bertboer@willydobbe.xs4all.nl] has quit []
20:56 < HornCologne> but I mean with intelligent use of media
20:56 < HornCologne> berlin has a huge IT base
20:56 < HornCologne> includeing
20:56 < HornCologne> including
20:56 < HornCologne> sap, microsoft, ebay, avm, easynet, strato, interoute, materna, teles, Aastra DeTeWe, Symantec (Deutschland) GmbH, ]init[ AG, Capgemini sd&m, Condat AG, Fraunhofer FOKUS, Fraunhofer ISST, Infopark, inubit AG, Ferrari electronic AG, Lufthansa Systems Berlin GmbH, tarent GmbH
20:56 < mortendk> isnt thats why we have drupalcamps a con should be for europe + usa - not just germany ? it seems like the main reason is to get the germans together?
20:56 < HornCologne> we can get them on board with some hard work
20:57 < HornCologne> Morten: the Germans need to meet you
20:57 < HornCologne> and you need to meet the Germans
20:57 -!- langworthy [n=langwort@erx204b171162.smarttadsl.com] has joined #drupalcon
20:57 < HornCologne> I wasn't finished ...
20:57 < mortendk> HornCologne:  yup thats why i go to camps ;) (and metal festivals) ;)
20:57 < mortendk> may i play badcop HornCologne ?
20:58 < Cyberschorsch> didnt met you @wacken :P
20:58 < HornCologne> go ahead, Morty
20:58 < mortendk> Cyberschorsch:  nopes was  Backstage ;)
20:58 < isabell> can we stay focused please?
20:58 < mortendk> So are Berlin ready for 2010 - or is it 2011 if you could pick & choose?
20:58 < mortendk> i would like to kick around a bit if thats okay ?
20:58 < fl3a> 2010
20:58 < HornCologne> We will do a great job at whatever we are allowed to
20:58 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/2010 => Redo => Drupal, base system, normal, closed, 2 comments, 4 IRC mentions
20:59 < adub> 2012?
20:59 < HornCologne> We have a provisional booking (option) at the TU venue already for 2010
20:59 < mortendk> but you want to sign up a ton of companys and dont wanna fund a person fulltime for it ?
20:59 < HornCologne> It is not really a question of "want to" - we understood the requirements to be senza full-timers
20:59 < HornCologne> if that has changed, we are agile
21:00 < mortendk> i have a hard time seeing that beeing realistic ?
21:00 < HornCologne> I have told you the same thing every time you have asked
21:00 < HornCologne> it is not set in stone
21:00 < HornCologne> thank you
21:00 < HornCologne> NEXT
21:00 < mortendk> HornCologne:  but you dont think the community could finf the money ?
21:00 < HornCologne> kvantomme
21:00  * mortendk damn no more badcop
21:00 < kvantomme> the proposal has a lot of general talk about business, but very little specifics. Can you tell a couple of bigger names that we'll definitely see in Berlin? e.g. do some namedropping?
21:01 < amye> HornCologne: I'm trying to follow the 'senza full-timers' comment, and I don't think I understand. Help clarify?
21:01 < kvantomme> you gave a list earlier of loads of it companies, but do you have any that already agreed to be there?
21:01 < HornCologne> no namedropping, because in Germany one cannot go to companies liek the ones I mentioned above without specifics and certainties
21:01 -!- Xano__ [n=Xano_@cc853091-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl] has joined #drupalcon
21:01 < HornCologne> amye: senza == without
21:01 < HornCologne> sorry
21:01 < kvantomme> aren't there any already in the community?
21:02 < kvantomme> any showed up on camps?
21:02 < gdemet> hand
21:02 < AndreasHaugstrup> hand
21:02 < HornCologne> At DrupalCamp Germany
21:02 < HornCologne> we had the UN and several companies
21:03 < HornCologne> but as I said, one of the tipping points that we need in Germany is a massive event to bring more enterprizes on board
21:03 < HornCologne> "communitx" is a difficult concept here and certainly not on most business plans ;-)
21:03 < amye> HornCologne: Thank you.
21:03 < HornCologne> adub, you are up
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21:03 -!- macode [n=admin@mail.qualitytravel-berlin.de] has joined #drupalcon
21:04 < adub> OK sorry I came in a bit late and this may been covered
21:04 < HornCologne> no sweat
21:04 < adub> a question about the venue: what is the capacity of the largest room?
21:04 < kvantomme> 1200 I believe
21:04 < adub> (seated obviously)
21:05 < HornCologne> luckow - you know
21:05 < luckow> 1000 + people take a look at room 105 http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephan_luckow/4004871670/in/set-7215762256...
21:05 < kvantomme> that was in the proposal
21:05 < adub> so my estimate for 2011 is 2-3000 people - how will they see the keynotes?
21:05 < HornCologne> will have to be solved with technology
21:05 < HornCologne> it is very hard to justify renting a 3000 person room
21:05 < HornCologne> for a week
21:06 < HornCologne> for 2 hours of keynote
21:06 < luckow> there is second room (called 104) for 1000 + people http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephan_luckow/4004106033/
21:06 < HornCologne> until we do DrupalCons in stadiums :-D
21:06 < HornCologne> okay, now gdemet
21:06 < gdemet> does the proposed venue have climate control/ air conditioning
21:06 < HornCologne> Yes.
21:06 < luckow> we could use a live stream to other rooms
21:06 < HornCologne> And Berlin's climate is very, very comfortable
21:06 < HornCologne> not hot, not cold
21:07 -!- Xano__ [n=Xano_@cc853091-a.ensch1.ov.home.nl] has quit []
21:07 < adub> this was one of the big reasons the uk proposal switched from Cambridge
21:07 < HornCologne> ah
21:07 < luckow> clinate control: sorry i forget this kind of question ;-)
21:07 < HornCologne> The TU is a full-time university and houses 100s of people every day
21:07 < HornCologne> 1000s of people
21:07 < adub> maximum room capacity in cambridge was 1400 and we felt this wasn't serious
21:07 < HornCologne> we would be there in the summer break
21:08 < HornCologne> adub: What do you mean "wasn't serious"?
21:08 < mortendk> well we know that europe isnt gonna explode as fast as in the states we dont have the same confrence meetup culture
21:08 < luckow> in september normally is about 20 degrees celsius
21:08 < adub> we felt it was crucial that everyone could see the keynotes
21:09 < mortendk> adub:  were here to discuss berlin not uk ;)
21:09 -!- OSInet [n=osi@drupal.org/user/27985/view] has joined #drupalcon
21:09 < HornCologne> In this case, this is a weakness of our proposal - but everything else about the venue, location and especially price seems to be a perfect fit.
21:09 -!- zgferner [n=zgferner@mail.qualitytravel-berlin.de] has joined #drupalcon
21:09 < HornCologne> The beer's also cheaper in Berlin ;-)
21:09 < adub> done
21:09 < HornCologne> thank you
21:09 -!- zgferner [n=zgferner@mail.qualitytravel-berlin.de] has quit [Client Quit]
21:09 < mortendk> hand
21:09 < HornCologne> AndreasHaugstrup, go.
21:09 < AndreasHaugstrup> A low-level practical question: Food. I see the proposal is to use the university cafeteria and then I saw luckow's photo of the saddest chicken I've ever seen and a menu with more of the same and no vegetarian options at all. While cheap do you consider this adequate catering for DrupalCon?
21:10 < HornCologne> Personally, no. But this would probably tie in to
21:10 < HornCologne> over questions of CO2, "green" and all that.
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21:10 < HornCologne> We need to weigh the price of catering
21:10 < HornCologne> internally vs. externally
21:11 < HornCologne> our hope is to be a green as practicable - without increasing costs astronomically by doing so
21:11 < luckow> as you see at http://www.studentenwerk-berlin.de/mensen/speiseplan/tu/index.html there is a vegetarian and an organic option every day
21:11 < HornCologne> how this affects the catering situation is open right now
21:11 < luckow> btw. the chicken was delicious ;-)
21:11 < HornCologne> and also part of the negotiations to be done with the venue
21:11 < mortendk> im loking forward to 4 days with "Pizza mit Schinken und Ananas" ;)
21:11 < HornCologne> :-D
21:12 < kvantomme> hand
21:12 < AndreasHaugstrup> luckow: I couldn't be paid to eat that thing :p
21:12 < HornCologne> Does this sound fair?
21:12 < AndreasHaugstrup> HornCologne: yes, thank you
21:12 < mortendk> hand
21:12 < HornCologne> kvantomme
21:12 < kvantomme> you shortly touched on the green topic, could you expand on that a bit more?
21:12 < HornCologne> happy to
21:13 < macode> AndreasHaugstrup: there are many restaurants next to the university. you can go there to have a better meal
21:13 < HornCologne> 1 - public transport almost 24 hours a day - ticket included in con price
21:13 < HornCologne> 2 - best effort to source locally (everything: paper, food, etc.)
21:13 < HornCologne> 3 - Germany has extremely highly developed recycling systems in place
21:14 < HornCologne> 80% of all packaging is recycled here
21:14 < AndreasHaugstrup> macode: not ideal since you really don't want to break people up mid-day. All experiences show that people do not return in time or at all. Those who were at the comparatively speaking tiny drupalcon in bruxelles can attest to that
21:14 < HornCologne> 4 - We will asses best option between paper/porcelain cups and so on.
21:14 < HornCologne> HAND SYSTEM
21:14 < HornCologne> TAKE IS BACKCHANNEL
21:14 -!- bangpound [n=bjd@c-71-239-180-183.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #drupalcon
21:14 < kvantomme> Who is going to make the green stuff happen?
21:14 < HornCologne> Wasn't quite finished, but
21:15 < macode> AndreasHaugstrup: join #drupalconfood
21:15 < kvantomme> please continue ;)
21:15 < HornCologne> it will be a core value of the whole team, as it is something of a core value of life here.
21:15 < HornCologne> Germany is a very good place to do "green stuff" because reusable bottle are everywhere, for example.
21:16 < HornCologne> Contractors will not think we are crazy for asking for it.
21:16 < amye> Checking out. I can't really support this kind of rudeness in a meeting.
21:16 -!- amye [n=amye@71-20-166-8.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has left #drupalcon ["Leaving"]
21:16 < kvantomme> please consider making this 1 person's job, who will actually look after this
21:17 < HornCologne> Very happy to, yes, it makes sense to have one person focusing on it.
21:17 < kvantomme> let me be clear, I believe in green, but I don't think it's the same important as reaching loads of people, but since it's in the scorecard
21:17 < HornCologne> I think
21:17 < dikini_> any plans/ideas about offsetting travel -re green stuff
21:18 < HornCologne> it should be done to the level it can while not making our fundamental goals impractical
21:18 < kvantomme> agreed
21:18 < HornCologne> Green travel and carbon offsets: I honestly don't know what they cost.
21:18 < mortendk> hand
21:18 < HornCologne> If you can build me a system that averages out the total Con travel over all modalities, and what the carobon offsets would cost, we can talk about it.
21:18 < HornCologne> Morty, go!!!
21:19 < mortendk> i wanna shift to social ?
21:19 < mortendk> if thats okay
21:19 < HornCologne> Sure ... our beer costs half as much ...
21:19 < mortendk> HornCologne:  yup and all taste like water ;)
21:19 < mortendk> whats the plan with social / drupalgangers is that gonna be done adhoc as in paris
21:19 < HornCologne> oldest beer purity laws in the world
21:20 < mortendk> HornCologne:  i know carlsberg stole loads from germanz ;)
21:20 < mortendk> but back to my question
21:20 < mortendk> whats the plan with social / drupalgangers is that gonna be done adhoc as in paris
21:20 -!- timmillwood [n=timmillw@93-96-172-196.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #drupalcon
21:20 < HornCologne> DrupalGangers: Berlin is a fantastic place to visit.
21:20 < HornCologne> We have concentrated on the Drupal and logistical part of planning so far
21:21 < mortendk> HornCologne:  okay so thats gonna be put in the plan at some time?
21:21 < HornCologne> http://www.berlin.de/international/museums/index.en.php
21:21 < HornCologne> http://www.berlin.de/international/index.en.php
21:21 < HornCologne> But the DurpalGangers are a tradition that will easily be served in Berlin
21:21 < mortendk> i know theres museums in berlin ;)
21:21 < HornCologne> there is an incredible cultural scene
21:21 < mortendk> but berlin will not put workforce into it ?
21:21 < HornCologne> more classical music than almost anywhere, etc. etc.
21:21 < fl3a> mortendk: http://www.berlin.de/international/attractions/index.en.php
21:21 < HornCologne> Sure we will, someone will cover that, too.
21:22 < HornCologne> I think fl3a probaly will be the man
21:22 < dikini_> mortendk: meet you at Rosies :)
21:22 < mortendk> hey im not asking about  if you have culture...
21:22 < fl3a> mortendk: + @see http://www.berlin.de/international/museums/index.en.php
21:22 < mortendk> so the same thing with hotels?
21:22 < HornCologne> We will address the DrupalGangers, but our 1st priority in the short time available was focused on other issues
21:23 < fl3a> mortendk: yes
21:23 < mortendk> HornCologne:  which was?
21:23 < HornCologne> venue, "green", transit, accessibility, tracs, other FOSS communities, our community, tracks, etc.
21:24 -!- rightsprocket [n=anonymou@c-68-59-48-111.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:24 < HornCologne> Were there more hands? We have a couple of questions.
21:24 < mortendk> my thing is that  i see this sketch in the proposal, but i cant see how that would be put together in a huuuuge city like berlin with so few local "berliners"(is it called that) or is the plan to get more locals in on drupalcon
21:25  * farriss thanks the Berlin team for all their efforts. This has been very helpful, but another meeting calls...
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21:25 < mortendk> anyone on my last innnocent qustion? ;)
21:25 < HornCologne> I think we've talked enough about Berlin and the team, Morten.
21:26 -!- zzolo [n=apalazzo@32.129.80.141] has joined #drupalcon
21:26 < mortendk> HornCologne:  well i dont thats why i ask
21:26 < mortendk> but okay if its gonna go unansered lets moveon then
21:26 -!- ZippoCub [n=ThatGuy@97.103.160.255] has joined #drupalcon
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21:26 < HornCologne> There will be as many locals as we can get. Blue Project will be there. The TU university is very central and the event will be concentrated in a small area of the city.
21:27 < mortendk> hand
21:27 < HornCologne> All of the team has event experience, including LinuxTag with 10,000 visitors ...
21:27 < HornCologne> MOrten
21:27 < mortendk> -and im moving on
21:27 < luckow> if you need a cheap hostel try eg http://book.easyhotel.com/city.asp?query=germany+berlin+de+ber
21:27 < mortendk> luckow:  im not booking hotels right now ; )
21:27 < luckow> hey. first come first serve
21:28 < mortendk> huh only me that haves the askhat on?
21:28 < HornCologne> done?
21:28 < HornCologne> We have some questions for the DA team.
21:28 < rDouglass> mortendk is a total askhat
21:28 -!- bertboerland [n=bertboer@willydobbe.xs4all.nl] has joined #drupalcon
21:28 < kvantomme> that's only me right now I think
21:28 < mortendk> rDouglass:  yup and i ahve more but i dont wanna be a hard ass ;)
21:29 < HornCologne> kvantomme: How do we coordinate between local sponsors, national sponsors, international sponsors and the DA? There's a difference between the local coffee company and Google.
21:29 < kvantomme> and of course rDouglass, but he depends what team you mean ;)
21:29 -!- zorpPopstar [n=zorpPops@89.186.188.154] has quit []
21:29 < rDouglass> can I answer HornCologne's question?
21:29 < kvantomme> sure
21:30 < rDouglass> If the sponsor is of the ongoing nature then we refer them to the DA
21:30 < rDouglass> so that we can maintain a long term relationship
21:30 < rDouglass> and have a good sponsor experience.
21:30 < rDouglass> The local coffee shop is a 1 off sponsor
21:30 < rDouglass> in the case of a Berlin DrupalCon they can become sponsors of the DI
21:31 < HornCologne> Fair enough - I think this will have to be included in any contracts that get set up.
21:31 < rDouglass> and the relationship will have a local nature and still support the DrupalCOn.
21:31 < HornCologne> Next question: What does the DA really want from a "Trade Fair" - this wasn't clearly defined anywhere.
21:31 < HornCologne> We have the space and can facilitate if the concept is clear.
21:31 < kvantomme> can I continue a bit on sponsorship?
21:32 < kvantomme> of course you would have to coordinate with the DA about visibility you will provide to that sponsor
21:32 < kvantomme> so that the coffee company doesn't outshine the platinum sponsors
21:32 < kvantomme> so trade fair...
21:32 < HornCologne> I assume there would be coordination ahead of time as to sponsorship prices and packages
21:32 < kvantomme> of course
21:32 < HornCologne> and that it wouldn't be on a case by case basis
21:32 < HornCologne> but clear beforehand
21:32 < rDouglass> But nothing has to be set in stone until Berlin is chosen in this regard.
21:32 < rDouglass> For now we should assume that the DA handles all sponsorships
21:32 < rDouglass> The local coffee shop isn't going to offer 30,000€ anyway.
21:32 < rDouglass> done.
21:33 < HornCologne> okay
21:33 < HornCologne> Trade fair, please.
21:33 < kvantomme> trade fair, well you are the proposers
21:33 < HornCologne> It was a clear requirement for the proposal
21:33 < kvantomme> this is your area to shine I think
21:33 < HornCologne> we have a wonderful space for it at the TU
21:34 < kvantomme> yes, we are looking to you for concepts
21:34 < HornCologne> Sorry, that is a cop-out.
21:34 < kvantomme> how do you imagine it?
21:34 < luckow> local sponsors as requested: http://www.puretea.de/ http://saftblog.de/ (typical sponsor for german barcamps)
21:35 < kvantomme> the local group is responsible for giving a drupalcon it's flavour
21:35 < HornCologne> yes ...
21:35 < HornCologne> but the DA specifically asked for a trade fair
21:35 < kvantomme> what kind of fair you put up is part of that
21:35 < kvantomme> well but there is loads of space in how you approach this
21:35 < HornCologne> fine - you don't know either. We can work with that, I guess.
21:36 < HornCologne> We are hoping to address several vertical markets that are good for Drupal
21:36 < HornCologne> and the trade fair could be a good moment
21:36 < HornCologne> to do that
21:36 < kvantomme> voila
21:36 < HornCologne> Drupal+
21:36 < luckow> there are two possible spaces for the sponsorship: the atrium http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephan_luckow/4004868074/in/set-72157622568702528/
21:36 < luckow> and the space between the two biggest rooms http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephan_luckow/4004104451/in/set-7215762256...
21:36 < mortendk> luckow:  when are the dates? you have planned?
21:36 < HornCologne> The Drupal+ idea has already been used at some events and is a fantastic opportunity to invite
21:37 < HornCologne> businesspeople and enterprises
21:37 < HornCologne> to get to knoe Drupal
21:37 < luckow> 06.09- 10.09 5 days in wonderful berlin
21:37 < luckow> #
21:37 < HornCologne> So ...
21:38 < luckow> so - arrive the weekend before (fore the metal concerts in berlin) and stay the weekend after the con (for teccno eg.)
21:38 < HornCologne> Feels like we're done, except for mortendk.
21:38 < kvantomme> he's never done :P
21:38 < luckow> ;-)
21:38 < HornCologne> my point exactly!
21:38 < HornCologne> ;-)
21:38 < macode> :D
21:38 < kvantomme> that's a true viking for you
21:38 < mortendk> HornCologne:  nopes i have asked my Qs and got the answers
21:39 < kvantomme> ok then I think this is it
21:39 < HornCologne> alright
21:39 < HornCologne> thank you all for coming
21:39 < HornCologne> any more questions
21:39 < kvantomme> is there anybody objecting against publishing the logs?
21:39 < mortendk> so sweet that the germans took iup the challenge
21:39 < HornCologne> please post them in our proposal thread
21:39 < kvantomme> if not, who will publish them?
21:39 < mortendk> and remember we doing it again tomorrow at 21.00
21:39 < HornCologne> http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210#comment-96242
21:39 < Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210 => DrupalCon Europe 2010  / 2011 in Berlin [UPDATE] => 5 comments, 6 IRC mentions
21:39 < mortendk> Tiburon:  haves them
21:39 < kvantomme> so who is publishing?
21:39 < fl3a> kvantomme: i wold publich ist
21:39 < Tiburon> I have the log .. but can still not post at g.d.o .. sync issues
21:40 < kvantomme> k thx
21:40 < mortendk> well one of ze germans ?
21:40 < HornCologne> We are not doing this again, just drop us a line in our comments! http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210#comment-96242
21:40 < Druplicon> http://groups.drupal.org/node/28210 => DrupalCon Europe 2010  / 2011 in Berlin [UPDATE] => 5 comments, 7 IRC mentions
21:40 < Tiburon> will post on drupalcon.dk and somone can copy from there
21:40 < macode> fl3a: you have a really good english!
21:40 < HornCologne> We can publish ok g.d.o. on our thread
21:40 < kvantomme> mortendk: I won't be able to make it
21:40 -!- rDouglass_ [n=rDouglas@p5DD22EC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #drupalcon
21:40 -!- sutha [n=sutha@a200204.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit []
21:40 < luckow> thanks for your time. see you in berlin
21:40 < kvantomme> HornCologne: yes please
21:41 < mortendk> kvantomme:  well were gonna be there and see if anyone wanna kick our ass
21:41 < HornCologne> will do.
21:41 < mortendk> luckow:  when? ;)
21:41 < luckow> 2010
21:41 < kvantomme> good evening!
21:41 < Druplicon> http://drupal.org/node/2010 => Redo => Drupal, base system, normal, closed, 2 comments, 5 IRC mentions
21:41 < Druplicon>  Somewhere in the world...
21:41 < Tiburon> HornCologne: ok ... i'll ping you when the log is up
21:41 < HornCologne> thanks
21:41 -!- kvantomme [n=Kristof@78-21-161-36.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Leaving."]
21:41 < mortendk> thanx im gonna go to the designers talk
21:41 < mortendk> later yall
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21:42 < bertboerland> thanks all
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