[15:57] litwol: i have an opinion regarded classes that i would like to voice before the discussion
[15:57] dmitrig01: sure
[15:58] aaronwinborn: sure, go ahead. i haven't implemented classes yet, just the actor type
[15:58] litwol: ok
[15:58] litwol: in that case i'll flood ;)
[15:58] aaronwinborn: then i'm actually out of town until about wednesday or so :(
[15:58] aaronwinborn: and won't have any real computer access
[15:58] litwol: basically i was thinking along the lines of: why restrict ourselves into classes?
[15:58] litwol: my idea was like this:
[15:59] litwol: give the player option to do WHAT EVER
[15:59] aaronwinborn: ah, yeah, i'm not intending to use classes normally, but allow admins the option
[15:59] aaronwinborn: but, sorry, didn't mean to interrupt :)
[16:00] litwol: bascially a player is just some random object. all objects can be associated with attributes dynamically
[16:00] litwol: each attribute knows its own actions
[16:00] litwol: meaning
[16:00] litwol: an attribute of say "health" will know that if you get attacked then it is deducted
[16:01] litwol: or an attribute of attack knows it has a target which is the target object.health
[16:01] litwol: or something
[16:01] litwol: that way each player can start with nothing
[16:01] litwol: and walk about the game world
[16:01] litwol: learning skills
[16:01] litwol: which will be linked to the player dynamically
[16:01] litwol: us as devs or admins can never know which player will have what in the long run
[16:02] litwol: but ofcourse if youwant to have a game based on classes
[16:02] litwol: than you simply define those attributes and group them
[16:02] litwol: what do you think of this limited idea so far?
[16:03] aaronwinborn: litwol: excellent! very close to what i already had in mind
[16:03] litwol: wonderful
[16:03] litwol: if i had to compare the functionality to drupal (just for the sakes of giving an example)
[16:03] litwol: i would say this functionality is like this
[16:03] litwol: player is a page type
[16:04] aaronwinborn: that was a difference between this & the game module -- Morbus wants to create a system that's classed based, like wow, and i want it to be more stat/skill based
[16:04] litwol: attributes are cck fields
[16:04] litwol: actions are user access controll
[16:04] litwol: well
[16:04] litwol: wow is stat/skill based, but in a limited way
[16:05] litwol: if you break the game down into its component blocks
[16:05] litwol: then all have skills, all have stats, all have similar attributes.
[16:05] litwol: the difference though, is how they are being grouped and limited
[16:06] litwol: most games i am familiar with use point systems to increase their skill stats
[16:06] litwol: they gain points with every character level up
[16:06] dmitrig01: I was thinking teh same thing with cck
[16:07] litwol: one MAJOR different example i can give you
[16:07] aaronwinborn: using the type.inc system and object type inheritance, this module should be flexible enough to allow different system implementation
[16:07] litwol: is ultima online
[16:07] litwol: it has skill experience based on skill use. not simply added points based on char level
[16:08] litwol: well
[16:08] aaronwinborn: so currently the object creation form calls hooks in the .inc files, so each type can add its own properties to the creation form
[16:08] dmitrig01: can we have it use CCK?
[16:08] dmitrig01: so we can add
[16:08] dmitrig01: e.g.
[16:08] dmitrig01: hair color
[16:08] dmitrig01: eye color
[16:08] litwol: dmitrig01: bingo!
[16:09] litwol: here's the structure i was thinking about
[16:09] litwol: you have object.attribute.action
[16:09] litwol: action has a target which is object or object.attribute
[16:09] litwol: more likely object.attibute
[16:09] aaronwinborn: the system isn't tied into the node system. but yes, it should be easy to add that kind of thing. currently, new attributes can only be added through .inc files, but as the system matures, i'm sure we'll add different ways of adding attributes & methods
[16:09] dmitrig01: litwol: I tried to make use of CCK, and make a game API to use the but it didn't come along
[16:10] dmitrig01: aaronwinborn: characters are nodes, right?
[16:10] litwol: dmitrig01: i dont mean we have to use the current cck. what i meant is we use the idea of cck
[16:10] dmitrig01: litwol: oh
[16:10] aaronwinborn: what i have in place is a system of hooks. every action is called by rpg_invoke('action', $object, $arg1, $arg2, ...)
[16:10] litwol: aaronwinborn: the limit with this proposal is that you cant extend it unless some one writes you a new .inc file
[16:11] aaronwinborn: litwol: that's true for the moment, but i'm still building the base for it. once it's stable, we'll definitely add form wizards & whatnot
[16:11] litwol: again this view is pretty limited
[16:11] litwol: let me explain how i envision this
[16:11] litwol: this is a very raw idea
[16:11] litwol: from last night to be honest
[16:12] litwol: so feel free to blacklist it lol
[16:12] litwol: anyway
[16:12] litwol: this is how i think of it
[16:12] litwol: on the very basic aspect of a game
[16:12] litwol: you ahve 4 types of operations
[16:12] litwol: you can either add, subtract, multiply, or divide
[16:13] litwol: 99% of all game data involves numbers
[16:13] litwol: so given this assumption
[16:13] litwol: i have a basic object of user which comes with predefined things like
[16:13] litwol: player.coordinates(x,y)
[16:13] litwol: player.health
[16:13] litwol: not even health
[16:14] litwol: just coordinates possibly
[16:14] litwol: then you go into admin character creation page for your game
[16:14] litwol: and you create 1 new attribute
[16:14] litwol: call it health
[16:14] aaronwinborn: not even coordinates -- just a location object id -- some location types might have coordinates w/in them, and would attach them to any objects contained, whereas others might be more generic (like a tavern)
[16:14] litwol: then you go and create another one. call it sword
[16:15] litwol: then assign sword an target
[16:15] litwol: which is health
[16:15] litwol: then assign action
[16:15] litwol: subtract
[16:15] litwol: give it some value
[16:15] dmitrig01: aaronwinborn++
[16:15] litwol: ok i see + agree
[16:16] dmitrig01: can we have a giant array of everything needed in the game loaded?
[16:16] dmitrig01: storing it in the DB would be too much
[16:16] litwol: yes. but really what kind of things do we need?
[16:16] dmitrig01: we can have location IDs
[16:16] aaronwinborn: dmitrig01: yes, theres a global $rpg, but it only loads objects from the DB as needed
[16:16] dmitrig01: user data
[16:16] dmitrig01: data about the place the user is in
[16:17] dmitrig01: if we had location IDs for each page load
[16:17] aaronwinborn: $rpg['pc'] returns the current user's current active pc object id
[16:17] dmitrig01: the player would be #1
[16:17] dmitrig01: then we could assign any object the player is carrying
[16:17] aaronwinborn: everything else is objects, so $rpg[55] would return the object loaded from the db
[16:17] dmitrig01: to location id #1
[16:17] litwol: +1 to that idea
[16:17] litwol: anyway i'm glad we are all relatively on the same page :)
[16:18] aaronwinborn: you might have 10000 players, but you only need to load yourself and maybe the three in your room
[16:18] dmitrig01: and location id #1 could be mapped to -601, -345
[16:18] dmitrig01: or the location id could be the UID
[16:19] aaronwinborn: to get a specific attribute/variable from an object, you call rpg_get('health', $pc) (for instance)
[16:19] dmitrig01: that's cool
[16:19] aaronwinborn: that will take care of loading the object if it hasn't already, and finding the property
[16:19] dmitrig01: that's really neat
[16:19] aaronwinborn: likewise, rpg_set('health', $pc, $value)
[16:19] dmitrig01: are we counting on the fact that the user controls a single character?
[16:20] aaronwinborn: takes care of loading the object (if not already), setting the value, and marking it to be saved back to the DB before the end of the page load (so only objects with changed values actually get saved back)
[16:20] litwol: aaronwinborn: you dont need to load anyone except yourself and the object your "action" is targetting. which i believe is easiest done based on XY
[16:21] aaronwinborn: yes, user only controls a single character (at a time) directly. they can switch characters, but might be allowed to indirectly control another character (through possession and the like), but that would still be ultimately through the first character
[16:21] litwol: aaronwinborn: why not extend it to multiple characters?
[16:21] dmitrig01: I think for now, we should count on one character
[16:22] litwol: as far as the code itself, it doesnt care which character ID we are operating on
[16:22] litwol: each character that we output on the screen we can make them with their own FORM. so when we submit an action for that character the game wil know which one we are operating on
[16:22] dmitrig01: how about this (silence please for a couple of moments):
[16:22] litwol: ofcourse there's a chance of failure to act because of access controll. you cnat controll what you dont own
[16:23] litwol: ok
[16:23] aaronwinborn: litwol: correct. although because characters are objects like any other, you actually load the room and all its contents (because some objects might affect a result, like the shield you're wearing would be loaded as well, and a lantern might affect the lighting in the room)
[16:23] dmitrig01: so for locations
[16:23] dmitrig01: location of the user is the character ID
[16:23] aaronwinborn: litwol: a user can have multiple characters already, but only play one at a time (for now)
[16:23] dmitrig01: $rpg['location'][$cid]
[16:23] dmitrig01: is the location of the character
[16:23] dmitrig01: if the user is carrying something, there location is the same
[16:24] dmitrig01:
[16:24] litwol: i'm going to butt in
[16:24] aaronwinborn: well, location is a special case -- when you move something, it actually sets $rpg[$cid]->location and $rpg[$room]->contents
[16:24] aaronwinborn: makes for easier db calls
[16:24] litwol: and say there's a lot of things that we dont need to load on every page request
[16:24] aaronwinborn: ->contents is an array of all the objects a room (or chest, or backpack) contains
[16:24] litwol: because of this: if we dont apply a certain action to a target player. then why do we care if it has a shield?
[16:25] dmitrig01: that's fine
[16:25] dmitrig01: I was just saying...
[16:25] litwol: in a map mode we only care for XY of the surrounding items to build the map correctly.
[16:25] dmitrig01: yeah
[16:25] litwol: which by the way leads me to the idea that game API should allow for map engine extendability
[16:25] dmitrig01: are we going to user images?
[16:26] litwol: because we may provide a default engine which is cartesian grid
[16:26] litwol: but also maybe allow to extend to 6-gonal grid
[16:26] aaronwinborn: litwol: more than that action happens during a page load -- you also have to see the name of every object you can see in the room, the room's description, any actions that have taken place since the last page load, etc. but still, you're only loading a limited subset of the game, obviously
[16:26] litwol: forgot the word lol
[16:26] litwol: hmm. why show names of all the items?
[16:26] litwol: actually
[16:26] litwol: ignore that
[16:27] litwol: i understand
[16:27] dmitrig01: are we going to use images?
[16:27] aaronwinborn: actually, messages are a special case -- they get stored in a table by the character who sees the message
[16:27] litwol: perhaps we dnt have to show anything by default. but when clicking on the item we show attributes
[16:27] aaronwinborn: dmitrig01: that'll be themable
[16:27] litwol: dmitrig01: i suppose
[16:27] aaronwinborn: images
[16:27] litwol: well question
[16:27] litwol: you all know heroes of might and magic right?
[16:27] dmitrig01: no
[16:27] dmitrig01: I mean images like image of the room your in
[16:27] litwol: ok
[16:28] aaronwinborn: also, certain block views will already be defined, so you could have a minimap as a block, with images as links to see a player or move to another location
[16:28] dmitrig01: oh, that's cool
[16:28] dmitrig01: will it be real time, or not
[16:28] litwol: yes
[16:28] aaronwinborn: yes, real time is the plan
[16:28] dmitrig01: but just ajax, right?
[16:28] litwol: ok i have a proposal
[16:28] aaronwinborn: or rather, it will look like real time
[16:29] aaronwinborn: it will actually be turn based, but a turn might be set to be five seconds or 100ms
[16:29] litwol: i would like to propose a proof of concept project
[16:29] aaronwinborn: dmitrig01: not ajax for the moment, but that wouldn't be too hard to implement later
[16:29] litwol: where we put the overall game idea on hold. and only build a small subset of it which will be playable
[16:29] litwol: the subset i am thinking about is this:
[16:30] litwol: map engine (handles display of all items on the page properly, handles movement)
[16:30] litwol: and few functions based on hardcoded variables which are health, and strength and experience
[16:31] litwol: so all you can do currently in that proof of concept game is you have maybe 5 monsters loaded with 1 user object
[16:31] dmitrig01: who here is a good writer?
[16:31] litwol: you can walk around and kill them to gain XP and raise your health and strenght
[16:31] litwol: that is the complete proof of concept project
[16:31] litwol: once we have this. we will most definitely see our strengths and weaknesses
[16:32] litwol: and know how to proceed
[16:32] dmitrig01: yeah
[16:32] dmitrig01: so let's get to coding!
[16:32] litwol: things like dynamic extendability are great, but overly complicated at this stage
[16:32] litwol: no not coding yet lo
[16:32] litwol: lol*
[16:32] litwol: map engine is a very complicated thing in itself
[16:32] litwol: which must be designed thoroughly
[16:33] aaronwinborn: sounds good. i'm actually starting more basically than that, but that could be the next stage
[16:33] litwol: great!
[16:33] litwol: i am an OK writer, for technical stuff that is
[16:33] litwol: i'm actually a web project manager >.<
[16:33] litwol: doing it for a little while for my job
[16:34] aaronwinborn: i'm a writer. not sure about the good part ;)
[16:34] litwol: creative writer?
[16:34] aaronwinborn: better at web development
[16:34] dmitrig01: can one of you write us a description for groups.drupal.org? we need a short and a long one.
[16:34] dmitrig01: I am terrible
[16:34] litwol: wonderful. i'm sure you guys got to know eachother already.
[16:34] dmitrig01: :x
[16:34] litwol: it wuld be great if i could be filled in lol
[16:34] litwol: hehe
[16:35] aaronwinborn: yeah, a few stories, novel in the works
[16:35] litwol: aaronwinborn you got your first job ;)
[16:35] litwol: jk
[16:35] dmitrig01: can one of you write something? please?
[16:35] litwol: i actually have very sucky memory. if you guys could fill out your drupal profile it would be great! things like your expeciences and where you work and do etc etc
[16:35] dmitrig01: me first
[16:36] litwol: i can but you guys can review and edit it before publishing
[16:36] dmitrig01: I have been with drupal for 2 years
[16:36] dmitrig01: and i have a couple of sites
[16:36] dmitrig01: mainly suchasnob.com
[16:36] dmitrig01: that's me
[16:36] dmitrig01: I'm a n00b designer
[16:37] litwol: its a chocolate site?
[16:37] dmitrig01: yep
[16:37] dmitrig01: chocolate rating
[16:37] litwol: sweet
[16:37] dmitrig01: I am a chocolate geek
[16:37] aaronwinborn: i work for advomatic -- (Link: http://advomatic.com)http://advomatic.com
[16:37] litwol: i'll make sure not to show it to my g/f then lol
[16:37] litwol: frekin woman needs to loose weight but cant stay off chocolate
[16:38] dmitrig01: pralus brut de sao tome
[16:38] aaronwinborn: i develop political blogs & corporate sites, like airamerica.com tpmcafe.com bioneers.org nrdc.org
[16:39] aaronwinborn: also have written some modules, like video_cck and flickr_cck
[16:39] litwol: one moment guys. i have a phone call
[16:41] litwol: back
[16:41] litwol: a great. aaron is a guy with experience
[16:41] litwol: anyway about me:
[16:42] litwol: i'm with drupal for some 24 odd weeks as my profile says
[16:42] litwol: but because its so difficult i quit drupal at least 5-6 times during that 24 week period and like an addict always came back
[16:42] litwol: and this last attempt at drupal which was few months ago i finally started to understand it
[16:43] litwol: i dont really ahve any site finished yet. but i am pretty darn close to launching a drupal based site for my job
[16:43] litwol: (Link: www.hias.org)www.hias.org
[16:43] dmitrig01: cool
[16:43] litwol: that is how the drupal site will look
[16:43] litwol: translucent custom image menus
[16:43] litwol: with 3 states
[16:43] dmitrig01: wowwe
[16:43] litwol: custom menu trail highlighting
[16:43] litwol: etc etc
[16:43] litwol: i wrote 1 module once
[16:44] litwol: which i deleted some time later because i discovered views :-p
[16:44] litwol: but essentially it was taxonomy_block module
[16:44] aaronwinborn: i'd been developing sites freelance for about 8 years. but as clients wanted more and more complex things, i was writing my own cms stuff (in asp, of all things). eventually, i realized there had to be something open source, and so i investigated, and it was between mambo & drupal. i'm happy to say i definitely made the right choice
[16:44] dmitrig01: aaronwinborn: can you create a HEAD or 0.1 release for the RPG module?
[16:44] aaronwinborn: dmitrig01: i can do a HEAD release. hold on...
[16:44] litwol: taxonomy_block is an official module at drupal though. but i was going through the tutorial and making my own code as i went which resulted in taxonomy block
[16:44] dmitrig01: aaronwinborn: so I don't need CVS
[16:45] dmitrig01: litwol: I have (Link: http://drupal.org/project/util)http://drupal.org/project/util
[16:45] litwol: HA!
[16:45] litwol: i saw it a while ago
[16:45] litwol: didnt really use it yet :-x
[16:45] dmitrig01: you should
[16:45] dmitrig01: litwol: and I co-maintain views_bouns
[16:45] litwol: i'm a believer that i must investigate as much of core as i can and reuse as much core functionality as i can
[16:45] dmitrig01: and i hope to maintain RPG :P
[16:45] litwol: before i begin extending it
[16:47] litwol: umm
[16:47] aaronwinborn: (Link: http://drupal.org/node/136147)http://drupal.org/node/136147 -- although it'll probably be a few hours before it's built
[16:47] litwol: i'm a project manager person :-x
[16:48] dmitrig01: aaronwinborn: thanks
[16:48] litwol: i feel as i have no management rights with the group yet as i need to gain my credability first
[16:48] litwol: but if we have no project manager i'd gladly accept the job
[16:48] dmitrig01: litwol: if you can code, can you join the util module team?
[16:49] litwol: overall i have a long game dev experience (at least some 6 years) which by the way all resulted in dead end. so i definitely know which way NOT to go about game dev lol
[16:49] dmitrig01: lol
[16:49] dmitrig01: aaronwinborn: is this for D5
[16:50] litwol: i can definitely code lol
[16:50] aaronwinborn: dmitrig01: yes. i am not going to back port it... (though someone else can certainly take that on if they really want)
[16:50] litwol: i hacked views module few days ago
[16:50] litwol: madea cool patch
[16:50] litwol: to allow block pagering
[16:50] dmitrig01: aaronwinborn: no, I was just wondering what drupal version to install it into
[16:50] litwol: but then views maintainer shut it down lol!
[16:50] aaronwinborn: :0
[16:50] aaronwinborn: :)
[16:52] dmitrig01: !is = 'are'?
[16:52] dmitrig01: why?
[16:53] litwol: so guys
[16:53] litwol: do we have a road map?
[16:53] * dmitrig01 posts a roadmap
[16:53] litwol: defined mile stone and bunch of goals
[16:54] dmitrig01: (Link: http://groups.drupal.org/node/3645)http://groups.drupal.org/node/3645
[16:54] dmitrig01: just edit that to include what you want
[16:54] aaronwinborn: sweet
[16:54] dmitrig01: both of you do that
[16:54] dmitrig01: in a ul
[16:54] litwol: wow
[16:54] dmitrig01: like I defined
[16:54] litwol: i love this road map!
[16:54] * litwol runs to code it
[16:54] litwol: :-p
[16:55] aaronwinborn: done! j/k
[16:55] dmitrig01: whaada you mean?
[16:56] litwol: ok so umm
[16:57] litwol: do i have all the editing rights and other yada yada for this group?
[16:57] dmitrig01: no
[16:57] dmitrig01: just for that page
[16:57] dmitrig01: do you want those rights?
[16:57] litwol: ok good i suppose
[16:57] dmitrig01: I can give them to you
[16:57] litwol: neh
[16:57] litwol: no point yet
[16:57] dmitrig01: ok
[16:57] aaronwinborn: litwol: feel free to put in your proof of concept. i won't have time to work on anything on the computer before wed. but i'll write notes, and can see how my ideas will fit with what you proposed
[16:58] litwol: i do not believe i will code anything, plus i hope no one else will code anything untill we manage to design the proof of concept
[16:58] litwol: basically i'm sure everyone here knows the value of good design notes
[16:58] litwol: and i dont see any yet for the overall project
[16:58] litwol: so first step is to get that written
[16:58] litwol: i will begin brainstorming ideas for the proof of concept
[16:59] dmitrig01: write some notes!
[16:59] aaronwinborn: absolutely -- i'm documenting everything i'm doing, but haven't written out my full plans for the engine yet
[16:59] litwol: (Link: http://groups.drupal.org/node/3645)http://groups.drupal.org/node/3645
[16:59] litwol: done
[16:59] dmitrig01: love it!
[17:00] litwol: do you guys know the game ultima online?
[17:00] dmitrig01: no
[17:00] aaronwinborn: i've never played it
[17:00] litwol: damn
[17:00] litwol: what kind of games do you play
[17:00] aaronwinborn: i don't play games :/
[17:00] aaronwinborn: i write them
[17:00] dmitrig01: D&D
[17:00] aaronwinborn: i used to play games
[17:01] aaronwinborn: but the game i want to play hasn't been made yet
[17:01] litwol: i never played d&d but i suppose most modern RPGs are derived from d&d
[17:01] aaronwinborn: ah, table top
[17:01] aaronwinborn: yeah, i haven't played table top games in about 10 years
[17:01] litwol: ah lol
[17:01] litwol: i never did after monopoly
[17:01] litwol: :-d
[17:02] litwol: hey off topic question
[17:02] aaronwinborn: i've played them all up through gurps & ad&d 3de
[17:02] aaronwinborn: but nothing that's come out in the last decade or so
[17:02] litwol: is it possible to achieve taxonomy functionality with cck now?
[17:02] dmitrig01: no
[17:02] litwol: sucks
[17:02] aaronwinborn: i'd played them since d&d blue box edition back in the late 70's
[17:03] litwol: i would love to see taxonomy retired
[17:03] dmitrig01: litwol--
[17:03] dmitrig01: :x
[17:03] dmitrig01: why would you ever think of that?
[17:03] litwol: replaced by cck relation functionality
[17:04] aaronwinborn: actually, i'd say yes, you can replace taxonomy w/ cck now -- a text field with predefined selects should do the job
[17:04] litwol: create a multi dimentional list with cck just like you do with taxonomy. and bam
[17:04] litwol: bingo!
[17:04] aaronwinborn: for a simple taxonomy, anyway
[17:04] aaronwinborn: i've been playing with the idea recently
[17:04] litwol: actually i think once acriveselect/dependent drop down are perfected then cck will finally retire taxonomy
[17:05] litwol: i am doing it now to a limited extent
[17:06] litwol: i use 1 dimentional selection list of cck for categorization
[17:06] litwol: and i find them easier to work with on the developer end
[17:06] litwol: than with taxonomy
[17:06] dmitrig01: bring your q in -dojo or -support because this for games!
[17:06] litwol: -_-
[17:06] litwol: ok ok
[17:06] litwol: anyway
[17:06] dmitrig01: :)
[17:07] aaronwinborn: i set up a video taxonomy through cck recently -- user selects the 'taxonomy', and a view builds a block on the proper page accordingly to the selection
[17:07] litwol: i would really appreciate it if one of you takes little time over the weekend or when you have time to help me with some drupal things. i have extremely hard time getting to learn cvs.. i use subversion with the windows gui and for the life of me i cant figure out cvs
[17:08] litwol: i'll be pretty useless if i dont know how to submit cvs patches for the game module lol
[17:08] aaronwinborn: i use linux, sorry
[17:08] dmitrig01: I use mac, sorry
[17:08] dmitrig01: lol
[17:09] litwol: umm
[17:09] litwol: i dont need to use gui
[17:09] litwol: i could use commands
[17:09] dmitrig01: oh
[17:09] litwol: i just dont know even the first thing
[17:09] litwol: like what the hell do i do?
[17:09] litwol: create repository localy?
[17:09] litwol: or what?
[17:09] litwol: i dont know
[17:09] aaronwinborn: yeah, similar to svn in that respect
[17:09] dmitrig01: (Link: http://drupal.org/handbook/cvs/quickstart)http://drupal.org/handbook/cvs/quickstart
[17:09] litwol: trust me
[17:10] litwol: i been over it 50 times
[17:10] aaronwinborn: if you have a command line, the commands aren't too bad -- just some cut & paste
[17:10] litwol: i ahve account with drupal dev so i can start projects and such
[17:10] aaronwinborn: maybe go to #drupal-support
[17:10] litwol: but i am being extra thick for some reason with cvs :(
[17:11] litwol: hey guys what do you think of this idea: dynamic panel based theme + engine that knows how to display that theme
[17:11] litwol: basically in run time you can create more regions and panel like layouts
[17:12] litwol: everything 100% admin + click driven
[17:12] litwol: never have to do anything other than css the theme
[17:12] aaronwinborn: yep, we're getting there
[17:12] aaronwinborn: and garland is a step towards even removing css modification as a requirement
[17:13] litwol: i made a small comment rgarding that in the Patch spotlight
Add .info files to themes
[17:13] aaronwinborn: panels already does that. cck + views + contemplate + panels is a killer combo
[17:13] litwol: but i seem to have been quickly ignored
[17:14] litwol: yes. if you think about it then the functionality is practically there
[17:14] litwol: the only thing you need in your page.tpl.php is print $content
[17:14] litwol: panels will do the rest.
[17:14] litwol: and the missing link is a module to create panels through admin which are stored in DB
[17:15] litwol: :-\
[17:15] aaronwinborn: soon i'll be out of a job ;)
[17:15] aaronwinborn: clients can just go in and develop their own site...
[17:15] litwol: nah
[17:15] litwol: you will NEVER be out of job
[17:15] litwol: you know why?
[17:15] litwol: simple: people are lazy and they dont want to deal with things
[17:15] litwol: that fact will never ever ever change :)
[17:15] aaronwinborn: hah!
[17:15] litwol: unless ofcourse
[17:15] litwol: installer profiles come into question
[17:16] litwol: or even a module to dynamically create installer profile ;)
[17:16] aaronwinborn: cool idea
[17:16] litwol: which by the way would be a great feature request to be hosted at drupal.org
[17:16] litwol: just select some check boxes and click "generate"
[17:16] litwol: and it will include all the modules you need etc etc
[17:16] dmitrig01: I want to create that module
[17:17] litwol: let me give you a headstart, a link as an example
[17:17] dmitrig01: please do
[17:17] aaronwinborn: but there's always something on the horizon. people will want drag & drop, holographic dioramas, think & drop, etc
[17:18] litwol: lol
[17:18] dmitrig01: yeah...
[17:18] litwol: drag and drop will definitely happen
[17:18] litwol: i think quite soon
[17:18] dmitrig01: drag and drop maps
[17:18] dmitrig01: :P
[17:18] litwol: maps?
[17:18] dmitrig01: for gameapi
[17:19] litwol: eh
[17:19] litwol: first we need a map engine
[17:19] litwol: it should include functionality of adding object to a map
[17:19] litwol: then we need an object engine which assigns attributes or essentially builds an object
[17:20] litwol: then map engine takes that object and adds coordinate association to it
[17:20] litwol: :)
[17:20] litwol: bam
[17:20] litwol: fond it!
[17:20] litwol: (Link: http://www.chsoftware.net/en/useware/wos/wos.htm)http://www.chsoftware.net/en/useware/wos/wos.htm
[17:21] dmitrig01: what's that?
[17:21] litwol: need to find the actual page
[17:22] litwol: basically they use that idea
[17:22] litwol: of package building
[17:22] dmitrig01: oh
[17:22] aaronwinborn: litwol: for now, i'm actually creating exit.inc -- so you define 'exits' which link rooms together. more open-ended than a coordinate engine. you can define exits like 'north', 'south', northeast, up, in, out, tavern, town center, kitchen, stairs, etc. or even rooms themselves can act as exits. easier to implement than coordinate system for now, but coordinates could be added later (or...
[17:22] aaronwinborn: ...replace the exit system, if an admin wants)
[17:23] aaronwinborn: an exit will have a ->dest property, which can link either to another room or to another exit. then exits can be extended like any other type, so you can have doors, secret doors, trap doors, portals that only allow white wizards to pass, and the like
[17:24] litwol: hmm
[17:24] dmitrig01: I think we might just have an awesome illustration for whatever we need it for
[17:24] litwol: i dont fully understand the idea of exits
[17:24] aaronwinborn: the next extension will be a compass-exit, which could then be used to create a grid
[17:24] litwol: but the idea of destination is exactly what i had in mind
[17:25] litwol: you basically have an entity that once you click on or step on will warp you to a new destination (new XY)
[17:25] aaronwinborn: coordinates come later, and would be basically be an extension of a room, or meta-room
[17:25] litwol: so if you step on a door of a building. it reloads a new map of inside of the building
[17:25] aaronwinborn: yeah, that would just be an exit in the system i'm creating
[17:25] litwol: and rooms and such
[17:25] litwol: as really smaller maps
[17:26] litwol: and each map i suppose associates with it's own image package for theming
[17:26] aaronwinborn: the exit type is pretty basic, and i already have in mind children types of 'door', 'stairs', etc
[17:26] litwol: i dont understand the difference between door and stairs
[17:26] aaronwinborn: image packs also come later ;)
[17:27] aaronwinborn: objects also come with predefined messages (that can be overridden)
[17:27] litwol: ok
[17:27] litwol: also let me state something before things get worse lol
[17:27] aaronwinborn: so stairs, when traversed, would return a message of something like 'You walk up the steps.'
[17:28] dmitrig01: and would bring you a level higher
[17:28] litwol: i am very opinionated person. and stand by what i think of. but at the same time i am very open minded and if i continuously reject your idea its most likely that i misunderstand it and think that my idea is better
[17:29] litwol: so if you make me understand your idea better i will possibly realize that its better than my and i'll step down and accet your idea
[17:29] litwol: i'm not saying this to anything speciffic
[17:29] litwol: just for future reference
[17:29] aaronwinborn: a door will have parents of 'exit' and 'openable'
[17:29] litwol: so you guys dont think i'm an arrogant ass ;-p
[17:30] aaronwinborn: and you could create an object that's of types 'door' and 'lockable', with a 'key' object that's set for that door
[17:30] litwol: umm
[17:30] litwol: why do we need messages if we are making it graphics based?
[17:31] dmitrig01: I don't think we should make it graphics-based
[17:31] litwol: i know original computer D&D are all 2D with no graphics so you need messages to see where you are
[17:31] aaronwinborn: i'm making it text based first. far easier at this point. but with the idea of adding graphics on top of it. so ultimately it will be both
[17:31] aaronwinborn: even ultima online was built on a text-based mmorpg
[17:32] litwol: but the way i was thinking of the end result is that we have a gfx based map that you canclick on tiles next to the character to move there
[17:32] litwol: and if that tile defines property "destination" then it warps the user to that map/destination
[17:32] litwol: so that tile could be a door to a tavern
[17:33] litwol: and that is why i was stressing the importance of map engine because i thought it would be gfx based :(
[17:34] aaronwinborn: what i'm building has more basic roots -- LoRD and urban dead, but i want it to be basic enough at its core that it can easily be extended to be gfx based
[17:34] aaronwinborn: i'm going for layering 20 years of web based rpg here ;)
[17:35] litwol: hmm
[17:35] litwol: offtopic
[17:35] litwol: here's the link
[17:35] litwol: (Link: http://www.chsoftware.net/en/useware/wos/wos.htm?action=download)http://www.chsoftware.net/en/useware/wos/wos.htm?action=download
[17:35] aaronwinborn: i'm planning to also use some of the gfx stuff planned at game.api, just that i want it to have both, and be able to 'turn off' one or the other
[17:36] litwol: i c
[17:36] litwol: wonderful
[17:36] litwol: hmm
[17:36] litwol: will need to process it in my head lol
[17:37] litwol: hard to find a solid connection
[17:37] aaronwinborn: anyway, LoRD should be far easier to build than wow or ultima online, but if the engine is powerful enough, it should be scalable
[17:38] litwol: oh dont get me wrong. i dont want to build those games
[17:38] litwol: i was just giving ideas
[17:38] aaronwinborn: for instance, i could envision building a flex application over the engine
[17:39] litwol: ok
[17:39] aaronwinborn: although i'm leaving that to my future self (or others) to implement ;)
[17:39] litwol: there's a huge history of gaming we will need to connect between you and i
[17:39] litwol: it would be great if you could give me links to the games that are solid example of what you want to make
[17:40] dmitrig01: I'm not sure there are any :P
[17:40] litwol: hmm
[17:41] litwol: i would hate to run into conflicts of interest
[17:41] litwol: so i would love to find a way to mirror the two approaches
[17:41] litwol: and i dont think we can mirror them or bridge them unless both of us are very familiar with both of the concepts
[17:41] dmitrig01: I think we all have something similar in mind
[17:41] litwol: ok so how about this:
[17:42] aaronwinborn: (Link: http://lotgd.net/home.php?)http://lotgd.net/home.php? is the first, (Link: http://urbandead.com/)http://urbandead.com/ is the next, but believe me, i intend for this engine to be far more flexible. muds and MOOs are better examples, but you usually need telnet for those. also, plenty of gfx MMORPG's have been built over muds, which is what i'm ultimately going for
[17:42] litwol: we take some time to draft down our ideas. then we take them all and break them down into their building blocks an try to find common divisor
[17:42] litwol: that common divisor should ultimately become the gameAPI
[17:43] litwol: and our wide range of vision would also let us see how far we should make the core api extendable
[17:43] dmitrig01: yep
[17:43] litwol: wonderful
[17:43] dmitrig01: I like how you phrased that
[17:44] litwol: eh :)
[17:44] litwol: it was probably by luck
[17:44] litwol: :-p
[17:44] dmitrig01: our wide range of vision would also let us see how far we should make the core api
[17:44] dmitrig01: so grand..
[17:44] dmitrig01: :D
[17:45] litwol: eh i'm pretyt tired after long day of work so i fail to pick up any signs of sarcasm if there are any :-x
[17:45] dmitrig01: there arn't
[17:45] litwol: ah cool
[17:45] litwol: +1 to me then
[17:45] litwol: :-D
[17:46] dmitrig01: yes, +1 to you
[17:48] litwol: aaronwinborn: i think we will be able to reach common ground on both ideas. but i think it will require us to break EVERY aspect of the game into object, property, and action
[17:48] litwol: most importantly actions
[17:48] litwol: so items like doors or stairs
[17:48] litwol: they all have action such as
[17:48] litwol: "enter" and "leave"
[17:49] litwol: or in fact every "place" or "tile" or "xy" what ever yo uwant to call it
[17:49] litwol: should have the action of enter and leave
[17:49] litwol: so if you enter the tile, it will do things like print a message "you enter a room"
[17:49] litwol: etc...
[17:50] litwol: so now things like stairs and doors can be built by assigning them those actions and other attributes
[17:50] dmitrig01: now, let's write the meat of this discussion to the gdo page
[17:51] litwol: you take care of it :D wile i research aaronwinborn's games
[17:51] dmitrig01: ok
[17:51] litwol: it would be great if you guys could research my motivation which is heroes of might and magic, and tribalwars.net
[17:51] dmitrig01: can you post it
[17:51] dmitrig01: I lost about 1/2 of the convo
[17:51] litwol: post what?
[17:51] litwol: oh
[17:51] litwol: ok
[17:51] dmitrig01: the whole convo
[17:51] litwol: i use trillian
[17:52] dmitrig01: I use Colloquy
[17:52] dmitrig01: but I hit clear
[17:52] litwol: so everything is logged
[17:52] dmitrig01: :x
[17:53] litwol: this is the link that comes up when i google heroes (Link: http://mightandmagic.us.ubi.com/)http://mightandmagic.us.ubi.com/
[17:53] litwol: ignore the GFX aspect of it
[17:53] litwol: just the game play matters
[17:58] litwol: will post that convo now