Content Structure / Some Noobish Questions

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Joschka's picture

Hello All,

here I am reinventing the wheel to help my local TT initative (Berlin SO36) rework the website. The project you have started to create a Drupal "package" geared towards TT websites is excellent! It would be a very very useful thing to have. Since I installed Drupal for the first time just yesterday, there is not much to contribute from my side at the moment, but this will hopefully change. If anything, I could help with a German localisation.

Now one of the first concepts giving me (and a lot of people new to Drupal I guess) a headache is the Taxonomy/CCK Fields/Content Type stuff. Not sure if I really got the basic concepts right, but I would love to get comments, corrections or links to resources anyway. Now, trying to keep this compact...

What the site should provide (simplified/there is more but this should be sufficient as an example)

  • static TT Info pages (about us / about TT / History etc)
  • static Background Info pages (for core Themes)
  • local Projects database, access by "themes" (energy, food, mobility etc)
  • link database, access by "themes" and other tags
  • Blogs (not necessarily with blog module and not on a per-user basis, but an "official" blog, one for interesting Media Articles, etc)

  • First idea

    Create different Content Types for the above bullet types

  • make it easy for contributors to chose what content to enter
  • sort out permissions (different users allowed to create different content type)
  • adding CCK fields to improve workflow as it fits later

  • Refine the Content Type with the Taxonomy System

  • Create a vocabulary with hierarchical/flat terms for each content type
  • Use Views to show the Project Database, the Blog pages etc
  • Use Taxonomy Menu for accesing the pages (About Us/Background, the Project Database etc)


  • Questions

  • does it even make sense?
  • I would basically "double" the content type with vocabularies to keep the terms seperate, as the terms can be the same but I do not want to stretch them across Content Types (e.g., no need to aggregate content tagged "energy" from a Background page and a Project Database entry at the same time).
    This approach feels a bit odd though. On the other hand, unifying such tags and sort them out by content type could grow confusing as well, and presents the contributor with a (unnecessary?) big list of terms/vocabularies to choose from.


  • Comments?
    Sorry to approach you this early in my learning phase, should you go RTFM I would appreciate a pointer to a more specific one ;)

    Cheers,
    Joschka

    Comments

    content types / taxonomy system

    e.m.fields's picture

    Hi Joschka,

    I'm totally new to Drupal as well, but 90% sure going to migrate my TT site to this system, so we're in the same boat. I'm having a hard time processing the taxonomy system. In fact, I'm not trying to bother with that at all at the moment; it's all I can handle to just begin experimenting.

    So, not sure I understand your intention, but at least the structure makes sense:

    • static TT Info pages (about us / about TT / History etc)
    • static Background Info pages (for core Themes)
    • local Projects database, access by "themes" (energy, food, mobility etc)
    • link database, access by "themes" and other tags
    • Blogs (not necessarily with blog module and not on a per-user basis, but an "official" blog, one for interesting Media Articles, etc)

    Except for the item:

    • static Background Info pages (for core Themes)

    What is this supposed to be?

    As to the rest of this:

    First idea

    Create different Content Types for the above bullet types

    • make it easy for contributors to chose what content to enter
    • sort out permissions (different users allowed to create different content type)
    • adding CCK fields to improve workflow as it fits later

      Refine the Content Type with the Taxonomy System

      • Create a vocabulary with hierarchical/flat terms for each content type
      • Use Views to show the Project Database, the Blog pages etc
      • Use Taxonomy Menu for accesing the pages (About Us/Background, the Project Database etc)

      Could you explain a little more? Maybe this will be informative for me to try to understand, even if I can't help you.

      -- e.m.fields
      chapel hill, nc

      Sample site

      aangel's picture

      Chris has an information architecture that you may want to copy. He's got links to it in this group if you dig a little. And of course the IA team Jacob is leading is working on exactly the issues you are looking at so unfortunately I don't have a good answer to your questions (yet).


      Andre Angelantoni
      Founder, PostPeakLiving.com

      Thanks for your comments!

      Joschka's picture

      Thanks for your comments!

      @ e.m. fields

      static Background Info pages (for core Themes) - What is this supposed to be?

      It thought about some Background Info pages for core TT topics like Peak Oil, Climate Change, Economic System etc. But indeed there is no reason for making it an extra content type, it should fall under "static TT Info pages".

      Could you explain a little more?

      I may as well be way off here, so don't take it to seriously ;)
      What I am basically struggling with is how many different content types I should create, and at which point I should "switch" to taxonomy for structuring. I saw the points in the first paragraph as "Pro" content type, and planned to use the taxonomy system to further refine how content of a given type is shown and organised on the page.

      Only today I realised the common question is actually about when to use taconomy vs CCK fields, which I (thankfully?) haven't even considered yet.

      some pages I found usefeul:
      Taxonomy System Talk
      CCK Introduction
      CCK Fields vs Taxonomy I
      CCK Fields vs Taxonomy II
      Content Type Rant

      @ aangel

      Seen the wiki page Chris set up, and copied some blocks - but my general question is more, how do you structure all this long list of different contents/"subpages" internally? in terms of content type / taxonomy / CCK fields or else? I am aware the IA team is working on a more easy to digest framework confronting similar questions, and will digg deeper in its backlog, but what can I do - we need the website overhaul badly, so I'll just have to plunge into this and see what I can come up with.
      It would be a great thing to already have integration with other (future) initiatives in Berlin or on the national level in mind, but this is even more over our current resources really.

      Information structure

      e.m.fields's picture

      Thank you for the response.

      I understand now what you meant by "core themes", and this seems to make sense. I think simplicity is the law, and you do not add something new unless you are certain that it is necessary. So, I think adding another "content type" for background information pages of varying types seems unnecessary.

      @ aangel

      I've been looking through the information architechture pages from your backlog, aangel, and appreciate that they are there. Thank you for sharing. I am not able to gather a tremendous amount of help from reading this - I'm sure it would make more sense if I was participant in the original discussions, but harder to jump in at this point and retroactively filter through your notes. It's a complex project!

      @ joshka

      I'm with you on that you need to just jump right in and start building a structure. I'm in the process of rebuilding my own information structure, because it's gotten bigger and information has "sprawled" out into branches where it was not intended to be, so now I need to do an overhaul. And, as I said, I'm not able to gather much from the information structure notes offered by the Transition Drupal team at this moment - too much complexity to begin with; I'd prefer to just clean everything out, and rebuild from scratch. Clear everything away, get rid of the clutter, and start again from the ground up with a clear structure; then you can judiciously add items back in as needed.

      If you'd like to communicate about the information architecture for your site as you're rebuilding it, I'll be working on mine this weekend - I could share / collaborate with you. As I said, my preferred model is decidedly, tyrannically minimalist and orderly, so it might suit your tastes or maybe not. =)

      But if you would like to discuss, please message me.

      -- e.m.fields
      chapel hill, nc

      "how do you structure all

      aangel's picture

      "how do you structure all this long list of different contents/"subpages" internally?"

      Your "pages" will come from the output of three main sources:
      1. Views
      2. Panel pages
      3. Panel nodes

      On those panel pages you will be able to position various elements, from blocks to calendars and records from the various content types you have created. A Transition site might have a half-dozen or more content types each for their own purpose. For instance, you might create an Event content type and a view that lists them chronologically.

      You're at the very beginning and the best advice I can give you is to consider purchasing a book.

      Here are some contenders I've heard good things about:

      Drupal for Dummies
      http://www.amazon.com/Drupal-Dummies-Lynn-Beighley/dp/0470556110/ref=sr_...

      Using Drupal
      http://www.amazon.com/Using-Drupal-Angela-Byron/dp/0596515804/ref=sr_1_2...

      Drupal Development, 2nd ed.
      http://www.amazon.com/Drupal-Development-Second-John-VanDyk/dp/143020989...

      Here is a book on Panels:
      https://www.packtpub.com/drupal-6-panels-cookbook/book

      Here is another book to be released soon that has the right focus (CCK, Panels and Views)...it might be available in ebook form before November.
      http://my.safaribooksonline.com/9780321620354

      Check on your favorite book site...there are many good books about Drupal now.

      Plus some more resources:

      Panels Documentation
      http://drupal.org/node/496278

      Videos
      http://learnbythedrop.com/

      Drupal Dojo
      http://www.drupaldojo.com/


      Andre Angelantoni
      Founder, PostPeakLiving.com

      book recommendations

      e.m.fields's picture

      wow, this is a goldmine of information. Thank you.
      It's good to have a quality resources list

      -- e.m.fields
      chapel hill, nc

      Capture as reference

      pmackay's picture

      Hi Andre,

      What about to capture some of these kinds of reference notes here:

      http://trac6.assembla.com/transition-initiatives-web

      It has a reasonable wiki for this, I think better than the GDO wiki pages. Also maybe we could start to build up the taxonomy and other reference stuff?

      Project Home

      aangel's picture

      Though I'm not against posting there as a matter of my technical religion, in a conversation with David we had aligned on the project having its own custom site so that we could make it do whatever we wanted as time went on. Thus was born www.transitiondrupal.org and that's the current home of the requirements document.

      During our conversation I was thinking of http://getpantheon.com but all the cool kids, er, open-source projects have their own site. I was hoping to bribe Chris and a themer to make a super good-looking template for the project.

      The only drawback to this strategy is that the site should be in Drupal 7 from the get-go...but D7 isn't ready yet so the features available on the site are, um, lacking.

      As an aside, the beta of D7 is right around the corner which is the milestone for module maintainers to start porting their D6 modules to D7. Still, my sense is that our starting gun won't go off for about another month.

      Nonetheless, I've been updating that site with developer content and these extra links could go there, too.

      What do you think of this strategy?


      Andre Angelantoni
      Founder, PostPeakLiving.com

      Transition Towns

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