Posted by chx on May 4, 2010 at 8:48pm
To "Come for the software, stay for the community." it has everything and not so cheesy as the current or the myriad others we figured during the years.
Change community plumbing
Group organizers
Group categories
BAM Section
- BAM Mission (25)
- BAM Branding (20)
- BAM Research (8)
- BAM Ideas (34)
- BAM Infrastructure (12)
Comments
some background
There is some good background/discussion in a wiki from a while ago http://groups.drupal.org/node/7634
I think this slogan, created during the Drupal Association retreat after DCSF, popularized on the twitter, and proposed as a drupal.org slogan here, is a brilliant solution to the "problem" of "community plumbing".
knaddison blog | Morris Animal Foundation
Do like this one, seems to
Do like this one, seems to encapsulate all that there is to like about Drupal in a short compelling motto.
Gives us a good alternative for "it's the community, stupid" without having to use the word "stupid", too.
Definitely
Totally communicates what the vibe is in the community. +1 from me.
Indeed
I am so glad that chx has posted this. It says everything that needs to be said, and doesn't mention "plumbing", which I'd like to hear nothing more about after the Boston water crisis of 2010...
Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow.
The front page of Drupal.org will be upgraded to say "Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow."
https://infrastructure.drupal.org/drupal.org-style-guide/prototype/homep...
Kieran
is that also in the <title> html tag?
I think this thread is about the html tag. Is that phrase also intended to be in the html tag? I don't see it mentioned there.
If that is the plan, let's do it today. Much like the improved issue blocks on the sidebar of project pages we can roll these things out incrementally when they are easy and/or we have time. This...is an easy change.
knaddison blog | Morris Animal Foundation
I missed the stone tablets
if your monk uniform included new commandments on stone tablets sorry for missing it.
If not, then what a weak, generic corporate bullshit slogan. Has nothing to say about Drupal. The one proposed here tells a lot.
Agreed
I would probably have been more diplomatic about it, but I'm going to have to give CHX a +1.
"Come for the software, stay for the community" feels like an Open-Source-type slogan -- not going to win any awards, but it's not offensive or stupid -- which, after participating in several threads on a new slogan, is a GOOD thing.
"Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow," on the other hand, makes my stomach hurt. I think that's one of the phrases from the Corporate Lorem Ipsum generator that we have fun using a Lullabot workshops.
"Drupal: Building The Enterprise-level Mission-critical Synergistic Relationship Solutions of Tomorrow!"
Okay, now I'm just having fun. But on a more serious note, that slogan sucks.
-= Jeff Robbins | Lullabot | Drupalize.me =-
Can I please propose a simpler version?
I was totally out of it for DCSF, so I missed all the fun. I swear I am not trying to bikeshed... but might I offer just one abbreviated combination of the two slogans currently being discussed here? Could we just do something like....
Build Community
or perhaps
Building Community
I think it captures the essence of both of the popular items (and hits merlinofchaos' "create" requirement).
Blog: http://technosophos.com
QueryPath: http://querypath.org
Ugh this slogan is terrible,
Ugh this slogan is terrible, "Innovate tomorrow"? Isn't that counter Drupal? I want innovation ALWAYS. What good is a Framework if it won't help you do anything innovative until the future? You can put anything related to building, innovation, base, launching point, etc - just don't mention not being innovative until the future.
Ironic
Talking so disrespectfully to each other (let alone to someone like Amazon, a person who has done as much or more for Drupal than 99.9% of people around here)...
....what an ironic way to back up the statement, "Stay for the community".
Personally, I like "Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow." quite a bit - it speaks to things a much larger percentage of people coming to Drupal care about. At the end of the day, most people who come to Drupal.org want effective tools which help them achieve their goals, not community.
Not about any person
I think we have not talked disrespectfully of anyone -- only of their slogans.
This thread raises some rather interesting questions. Like, "most people who come to Drupal.org" and why should I give a damn about those? What happened to "scratch your own itch"? If "Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow" reflects Drupal best then what happened to the fun we had long ago? What do we want to express with our slogan?
Times change
http://www.palantir.net/blog/were-not-underground-success-anymore
Drupal has long since left the world where "scratch your own itch and add it to the pile" is how we can or should work.
When/where/and by whom was
When/where/and by whom was that particular tagline selected?
Where's the answer to this
Where's the answer to this question? How did that slogan get on the mock-up in the first place? Who decided? Was it discussed by the Association?
Drupal.org user profile
Drupal Micro-blogging: http://twitter.com/matt2000
I'm not totally fond of "come
I'm not totally fond of "come for the software, stay for the community" - it strikes me as a bit too long, and "come for the X, stay for the Y" isn't exactly the formula for an original slogan. But if any sort of "X today, Y tomorrow" slogan is the alternative, I'll side with it any day.
The Boise Drupal Guy!
I have to agree with chx
I have to agree with chx here.
My vote
This one rocks! - Come for the software, stay for the community
Carla Briceno
Bixal
www.bixal.com
"Come for the software. Stay
"Come for the software. Stay for the community." I first heard it at the Drupal Association workshop right after DCSF. It beats what we have, and speaks to that this is a community, not just a ball of code.
To be honest, "build today, innovate tomorrow" feels a bit off to me, since I feel Drupal is about "Innovate Today: Build Tomorrow".
PINGV | Strategy • Design • Drupal Development
To be honest, "build today,
I agree more or less, and largely explains why the slogan doesn't feel quite right to me.
They kind of mean the same
They kind of mean the same thing, too, if you think about it, both imply "Get the software today, contribute tomorrow". Just that one is bland, the other has a human heart
Chx is spot on +1
"Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow" is quite simply silly and amateurish (don't mean to offend whoever came up with it).
"Build today" says nothing at all, build what, a house, a truck, a website? some users will have heard the word Drupal and not know what it is.
"Innovate Tomorrow" implies that we are not innovating today, which not only is bad marketing but is simply wrong,
"Come for the software, stay for the community" is much more reflective of Drupal and a clearer message for people
"Come for the software" clearly states that we think the software is worth coming for, heck it even says its software.
"Stay for the community." is warm and inviting, it clearly sets a tone for the user and reflects the real reason Drupal is great.
"Innovate Tomorrow" implies
Yup, that sums up my feelings, too.
I'm glad this is coming up again. The "official" issue for this discussion, for what it's worth, is at http://drupal.org/node/199601 but it seemed to die a nasty death.
"Innovate Tomorrow" implies
+1 that was my first reaction exactly
_
I have to agree -- +1 chx -100 to "Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow," which sounds like a bad marketing brochure for florida time shares.
"Come for the software, stay
"Come for the software, stay for the community" is great!
I started a stub on the wiki, http://groups.drupal.org/node/66883
I hope it's okay if I copy some of the positive vibe of this thread in there :)
I like chx's
I like chx's suggestion.
However, mbutcher's more succinct slogan is appealing as well.
It just occurred to me the other night that the Drupal community is to community what open source is to software. I have a gift for experiencing epiphanies with the obvious.
So:
Open Source. Open Community.
drupal.org redesign copy
Whatever happened to "Change the web. Change the world." as included on the D.O redesign comps? Was that just a random boilerplate slogan?
http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/drupalorg-design-iteration...
I would not even be here if
I would not even be here if it weren't for the community. I think Chx's slogan sums up my experience over the past 5 years here, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.
Aaron Winborn
Drupal Multimedia (my book, available now!)
AaronWinborn.com
Advomatic
Not mine
It came from the DA sprint, I believe it's Angie's.
And yes big +1 for the "come for the code, stay for the community".
Software vs. code
If I could bikeshed just a little, "come for the code, stay for the community"? I just like alliteration, and it's one fewer syllable.
Either way, I much prefer that one (which came out of the DA retreat) to the one Kieran posted above. It's much more warm-and-fuzzy, and I hear all the time that Drupal's community is much warmer and more integrated than most open source projects. We should be proud of that and go for the more community, homey feel.
I'd rather keep "community
I'd rather keep "community plumbing". It is at least original and non-soapy.
but number four in the list
but number four in the list by google's calculations: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=community+plumbi... ;)
Aaron Winborn
Drupal Multimedia (my book, available now!)
AaronWinborn.com
Advomatic
chiasm vs alliteration
"Come for the software, stay for the community" is more pleasingly parallel. :)
And Kieran, I think we need some clarity on who is dictating the "Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow" slogan. It seems pretty universally hated.
Re-design deliverables
In August 2005 Dries, Boris, and I sat down at OSCON and discussed three goals to make the Drupal project successful. One of those goals was improving Drupal.org.
We agreed that Drupal was a world class project and should have a world class design for it's website. We knew that getting a bunch of hard core programmers to design by committee wasn't going to lead to a good unified design that would address the growing audience that would be coming to Drupal.org. So we set out on a plan to create financial entity, the Drupal association, to raise money and hire a world class designer. I led Drupalcon Boston in 2008, made over 100K in profit, and the association used this profit to pay for the design firm, Mark Boulton Design.
The association stepped in and managed the redesign deliverables. Here they are: https://infrastructure.drupal.org/drupal.org-style-guide/prototype/homep...
I am not going to argue with the most hard core Drupal contributors about what they want the Drupal.org tag line to be. I don't have skills to define a good tag line and I don't want the responsibility of determining the best tag line for drupal.org.
What I will say is that we went through a community process to get a phase one of the redesign complete, which included that tag line. The most important part of that process was doing research about the different audiences that were coming to Drupal.org and interviewing them to understand what they needed. That included a tag line that made sense to new users.
I don't believe the people in this thread represent the needs of the 1.4 million unique visitors who are coming to Drupal.org each month and are trying to understand what the drupal.org web site represents. But the people in this thread are an important audience that should be heard.
My focus is to try get phase one of the redesign out the door, even if it means it goes out with an imperfect tag line that dozens and dozens of the most hard core contributors hate.
I can look back 5 years and see how far we've come and how far we have to go over then next 5 years. My goal is to build momentum within the community to get phase one delivered. Once phase one is done we can start doing the small iterative design improvements that we all know work much better. Some of those small iterative design improvements might be improving the tag line or other parts of the redesign we didn't quite get right in phase one.
By all means, have your say about what the Drupal.org tag line should be.
But please don't let this discussion set a precedent which would cause every design element of the redesign to be revisited. I spent the last year architecting Drupalcon San Francisco, including raising $410,000 in sponsorships, to have enough profit to hire people to complete the redesign.
We are close to getting an imperfect phase one done, and I'd ask that you give the 100+ people currently working on completing the redesign some latitude to be imperfect.
Just for phase one. :-)
Kieran
Never said a word about the redesign
I wonder where that connection came from... I wanted to change Community plumbing in the Site Slogan textbox http://drupal.org/admin/settings/site-information here. I can do that in about 30 seconds and I won't bill you a cent.
Come for the software, stay for the community.
Seems to be very well received in this thread, tweets, and the ongoing discussion in the IRC. The other slogan...not so much.
Gus Austin
I LOVE the "come for the
I LOVE the "come for the software, stay for the community" slogan.
Please don't make the community sad with a slogan that doesn't sound ok for drupal.
Drupal = the community + code
The original suggestion from chx is perfect and is how the vast majority of users will approach Drupal. Trying to tie it in nots of buzzword, PHB-speak bingo, i.e. amazon's suggestion, will do it a great injustice.
Tag line from the redesign
I don't really have opinion about the tag line. I think a discussion about the tag line without the context of the entire Drupal.org site, and the entire redesign effort is lacking.
I would ask that you stop referring to this tag line as Amazon's suggestion. It was not my suggestion, but the tag line from the Drupal.org redesign effort lead by Mark Boulton Design and funded by the Drupal association with the Drupal community's financial support.
I merely stated what the current non-controversial tag line in the redesign had been now for over a year.
Kieran
Screenshot
Just thought I'd show a screenshot comparing both. Clickthru to large size.
While I like this slogan, it
While I like this slogan (I think I might have set of all the tweeting), it seems too inward facing, so to speak. It probably resonates with the 10,000 contributors or so, but not with the 500,000 users. Reality is that the vast majority does not stay for the community. Sounds like a great slogan for groups.drupal.org, but I'm not convinced yet it is the proper slogan for drupal.org. I need to think about it some more.
You hit it on the head Dries
You hit it on the head Dries. I do think the slogan "..innovate tomorrow.." is slightly off but we need to recruit new people not satisfy ourselves. +1 for not using "community" in the slogan. And +1 for continuing to meditate on a slogan that will resonate with those on the outside of the community.
I love the community and that is one of the reasons I stay. But if a better tool was available now, I would likely use it. There is more than enough room in the Drupal environment for someone who doesn't care about the community but contributes because it makes good business sense.
Even people who just leach from the community and don't contribute are good for the community. That's why downloads of Drupal and total number of Drupal sites are good metrics.
Regards,
Michael Hofmockel
Open Source || Open Access || Open Mind
Why Drupal Rocks
There are better tools, depending on what you're talking about. However, there are many deeply committed developers who would instead learn from that and help shape Drupal to catch up and surpass in such instances. There's also the issue of commitment of time and energy. Certainly, if everyone jumped ship and left Drupal to shrivel, anyone foolish enough to stay on would be doing so probably out of a misplaced loyalty to sunk costs.
However, Drupal has a vibrant community, or rather IS a vibrant community, and it is ONLY because of this that Drupal continues to rock.
Aaron Winborn
Drupal Multimedia (my book, available now!)
AaronWinborn.com
Advomatic
They might not
but they are invited to stay from the very first minute. And stay not because we have a great software/documentation/whatnot to contribute but simply because we have a community that's awesome.
I agreee with the sentiment
However I don't see how that slogan possibly achieves your aim?
When defining a brand (B2B especially) you have to go to the core of what the brand experience is, not only the labelling on the outside. This is a classic mistake that is made by companies who start to get a bit of success and then forget the mechanics of why they were successful. Relying on slogans and other marketing mechanics is a race to the bottom of the market with everyone who can write a CMS and come up with a slogan. Replicating a community of this type is incredibly difficult by comparison.
The vast majority stay for the software and support they get, both of which are provided by the community. By focusing on the community your inherently ensuring that these improve and thus the 500,000 have a better brand experience.
If you switch the focus to being on newbies/corporates etc. then you will lose the community and the software/support will suffer so while they might (i doubt it) like the slogan, there Drupal experience will suffer and you will have lost the community support thats the lifeblood of all our businesses.
I want to see the community centre stage with a focus on building a strong community ecosystem that drives the overall Drupal brand experience and embedding community in the middle of the brand is core to achieving this.
I am confused. Will the
I am confused. Will the slogan we are currently discussing about be for the Drupal project (the software), or for drupal.org?
The discussion greggles referred seems to be about the software. But in this thread, it seems to be that we are talking about the site slogan for drupal.org. Would someone clarify it?
By the way, if the slogan is for the software, how about these?
"The only CMS you need. Period."
"Your search for CMS is over."
"Your search for CMS ends here."
Inspired by jjeff's comment at http://groups.drupal.org/node/7634#comment-22859 , I thought the slogan should be focused on site building in any types, not just community sites.
If we are talking about the site slogan for d.o., then meditate on this more, I will...
Aki Iwata
FOREST & trees
I agree that "Build Today.
I agree that "Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow." sucks big time. Why the heck would anyone want to delay innovating? I want to build AND innovate right now. The ability to build NOW is itself a major innovation. Big --1 on that slogan. Chx's suggestion is far better, even if it's it not perfect yet.
Drupal.org user profile
Drupal Micro-blogging: http://twitter.com/matt2000
How about...
"Make it right. Make it better."
I think it works pretty well with the next paragraph in the redesign graphic shown above.
Make it right captures that Drupal can help you make your site the right way now.
Make it better has a double meaning...
Make it better as in you can make your site better using drupal (vs others)
Make it better as you can join us and make Drupal better (join the community)
I love "Come for the Code. Stay for the Community." mind you. I wouldn't mind it on the home page at all!
Depends who that top bit of the site is really aimed at. Coders who you want to join the project/community? Or just anyone looking for a cms?
It's all about perception
I am pretty confused. I am very new to drupal community and trying to push drupal under the web practice in my company and facing hurdles in every corners of my journey in pushing drupal.
In my opinion the people who are the pillars of drupal are the community but I would like to refer this community as drupal developers with a passion of drupal and that is great and true power of drupal.
But when somebody take a look at drupal as a business viable software platform need to think as corporate stuff with less passion and more of a business.
And at present as per my judgement ( i m sorry if I am wrong) and experience at DCSF DA is trying to put their best efforts to make drupal more and more adoptable by the enterprises and for that I think drupal need some traction from the software service industries and to make it happen some corporate essence is getting injected into it.
Though I am for both but in different space like "Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow" could be in drupal.org but not in community space and for community space "come for the software, stay for the community" is much sensible.
While we're brainstorming new
While we're brainstorming new ideas, I'll toss some in to try and spur further creativity:
Community Created, Intentionally Innovative, Superior Software.
-says it all, but too long, not so catchy
Built by Community, Innovative by Design
-not quite right...
Serious Software, Patches Welcome
-mostly kidding.
[edit: meant this to be a reply to Frank below. Sorry for jumping out of place.]
Drupal.org user profile
Drupal Micro-blogging: http://twitter.com/matt2000
Thinking back to the B.D. Era for me.. (Before-Drupal)
I was looking for a CMS for my organization and when I looked at drupal, the thing that lured me in was the fact that there were MANY active contributers. If you've used software that isn't maintained well, you know the frustration it can cause. Drupal seemed to have it's shit together on the other hand, and many hands helping out in various ways. I don't know too many drupal users (drupal web site admins) that DON'T interface with the community almost immediately with the community driven drupal.org site.. I think what people want to know more than anything, is that if they run into problems, that they aren't alone. This goes for your simple blog site to Whitehouse.com.
So I disagree with Dries' initial feelings about it being "inward facing". I would say that it's more "outward facing and inward pulling". "Stay for the Community" is quite welcoming. It gives the feeling that it's a community looking for more members, and encourages group-identification.
To confuse things even more - I'd throw "Community Driven Innovation" In to the ring :)
Frank Carey
Twelve Grove Inc. Drupal Development
Oooh, I like that - Community Driven Innovation!
Nice one Frank!!
+1
Love "Community Driven Innovation"
Coming late to the conversation, but that tagline pops for me. Perfect to describe the strength of the community working together to push boundaries. Short, sweet and to the point.
+1
Nice!
I really like "Community Driven Innovation".
Michelle
Balance between subjective and to the point
"Community driven Innovation" is nice and simple but the word innovation can be highly subjective and the meaning can change lot from person to person, it has been used so many times that I kind of feel blank when I think about what it means or how do I achieve it and what qualifies to be called a innovation?
--- About Community as part of slogan --
Its heartening to see community taking time and responding to a discussion which doesn't affect how they use drupal or how it affects their business (atleast directly) which implies community holds drupal close to their heart and there is no reason why it shouldn't be counted as our strength or become part of our slogan.
Like many have said before, even for me its the community which has made me stick with drupal amidst lure of new and shiny frameworks and technologies. My opinion is purely based on my reflection of time spent with drupal which doesnt involve knowledge of how drupal is perceived in corporates.
+1 for the balance between subjective and to the point -- "Come for the software, stay for the community" It does sum up my experience with drupal.
Dipen Chaudhary
Founder, QED42 http://www.qed42.com Drupal development
Community Innovation
Frank Carey wrote:
> To confuse things even more - I'd throw "Community Driven Innovation" In to the ring :)
And how about simply "Drupal: Community Innovation"?
"Come for the software, stay for the community" seems a good slogan/tagline as well.
Community crafted ..
Putting my idea ..
"Community crafted CMS for generation Next"
"Community crafted innovation for tomorrow"
.. for now..
code > community > marketing > corporate web
Reading this group-thread feels like watching an action-suspense-drama TV episode -- with all the plot's nail-biting twists from start-to-finish.
First of all, I'm commenting here not to troll nor spoil the page but rather to show my sincere appreciation to the Drupal community (in general). I just happened to stumble upon this discussion, finding good words of wisdom from people in different standpoints. So, I decided to interpret the thoughts into these:
Marckee for Short
wiki page
I changed the title of the wiki page to New slogan?. Looking forward to seeing more contributors there :)
There's also an older Slogan
There's also an older Slogan Proposal Wiki.
Aaron Winborn
Drupal Multimedia (my book, available now!)
AaronWinborn.com
Advomatic
bikeshedding
to quote yoroy a bike-hangar that was built over this in http://groups.drupal.org/node/7634 and we had agreement in the beginning of this thread before "Build Today. Innovate Tomorrow." was thrown in totally muddying the waters. I hoped that once we can reach quick agreement. This, of course, was not to be. I am closing this thread. I would rather delete it too but I instead let it's corpse rot here to show what we have evolved into.