Drupal Camp Asheville and Drupal Carolinas LLC

Hey all... Just weighing in.
Sheena's points, however stern, are accurate; from the legal sense as well as the Drupal Community sense.

As for precedence...
In Los Angeles they have formed their own association [i was looking for a link and couldn't find Christefano talking about this] and Christefano is quite the evangelist on what they did and why. If any one finds a good link, please post it here.
In Indianapolis we started our own 501 which while it is NOT tax exempt, it does keep the sponsorship checks from showing up on any one persons personal checking account or any one business account.
The DA has tested their process for being a fiscal agent and my final conclusion is that the solution they provide is not for everyone nor do they intend on accepting everyone who wants to use them.

After all is said and done I thing organizing committees need to find a solution that works for them. I DO like Matthew's idea of consolidating the operation into a regional organizational structure. As Sheena states, this would require prior acceptance by all parties concerned. The benefits are there and of course some pitfalls exist as well.

I believe that the conversation that Matthew started is a good one and one that should be carried here in the open where many of us [like me and my big mouth] can watch and comment. If at the end of the day the scope is reduced and the name is changed OR if all stakeholders agree, then progress has ben made.

I look forward to watching this conversation mature; especially as we see other members of leadership in the Drupal community get involved.

• DV

Creating an LLC was the final idea after hearing what other camp organizers had done as well. Dave Terry's group organised not-for-profit (not 501.c3). As Doug said LA created a "volunteer association" which was described as a group of people DBA "Drupal LA". The original goal was to create non-for-profit or 501.c3 but it was determined after much discussion and a few bofs that an LLC is easier to create, maintain, and who cares if we pay taxes. That only happens if we don't donate all our money back to the DA. (in theory)

I am aware and starting the process of the trademark.

As far as the name, I believe it's not unreasonable to be called "Drupal Carolinas" to start off with. It would be a nearly impossible task to gather up all the representatives of north and south prior to creating the organization. If that is the case, I, nor anyone, could ever "guarantee that there are representatives from all of the DUGs in North and South Carolina as members in your LLC". However what we can do is guarantee that Representatives from all of the DUGs in North and South Carolina will have access to join (or leave) as members of the LLC whenever they want. The name says the organisation support Drupal in the Carolinas. The organisation is not here to speak for Drupal in NC/SC, just support it.

No different than "Acousti Engineering of Carolinas, Inc.", "Audio Books of the Carolinas, Inc.", "Beach And Golf Properties Of The Carolinas, LLC", Carolinas Advertising, Inc., or "Carolinas Accounting & Tax LLC" (real companies)

These names don't imply "We own and run all accounting and taxes in the carolinas!" It implies, he we do taxes and accounting for people in the Carolinas.

I'm happy to put an "of" or "of the" in the name if that matters.

I want to make sure that I fully understand what you are proposing and the associated drawbacks and advantages. Here's what I've gathered:

Proposal: Have an organization run by Drupal advocates in the Carolinas that is the fiscal sponsor and organizational hub for other Carolina Drupal activities

Advantage:

• Ability to maintain funds to support local groups and help start DrupalCamps
• Consolidate regional groups (Doug)

Disadvantages:

• Lack of precedent (Sheena)
• Unclear decision-making/ownership structure (Would all DUGs be represented equally? How? How would new people add or leave the fiscal organization)
• Some steps might be involved in acquiring a trademark

Ownership:

• The LLC would consist of Matthew and whomever else would like to participate (my assumption is that it will be open until Matthew files to start the LLC)

Initial Source of Funding:

• DrupalCamp Asheville profits
• Individual donations (if provided)

Alternative Proposals:

• Start a 501(c)3
• Maintain local autonomy and control (there is no central organization)
• Create the unofficial group of people from both states who work together to foster the local Drupal community (Sheena)

Based on my understanding, as described above, my biggest question is why this is needed immediately. Like Doug, I think that this decision could benefit from having a number of stakeholders in the Drupal Community to weigh in. From my perspective, this is an opportunity for the Carolinas to contribute to the larger Drupal community by developing a model organizational structure for other regions. I would hate to see this opportunity wasted by quickly moving to action without a significant opportunity for collaboration and reflection.

What I know...
Drupal suffers from lack of organization on many fronts. Ad hok steps have been taken here and there to remedy this with varying degrees of succes and failure.
What we have here is a guy, "Matthew," who has researched some options and spoken with some stakeholders and had generally favorable reactions.
I can assure you that this is not a hostile takeover of a territory or idea. Matthew's intentions are pure and his aim is altruistic.
I don't expect Matthew to fly off and do anything a huge as starting a company until the dust has settled on this and the voices have been heard.
I would like to see the conversation take a tone of "Will this work and if so HOW can we make it work?"
I've seen power freaks who think having a domain name and an idea makes them king of the situation. Matthew is not such a person.
I have to step out, but I wanted to weigh in again before I did.
- DV

Please excuse this potentially lame question. I've actually installed and utilized messaging, notifications and OG on a couple of sites, yet I can't decipher a way that I can unsubscribe to a singular topic (if already subscribed to a group or content type) I don't want to unsubscribe from TriDug since it has been a useful resource for a new person like myself. I don't really care to have to keep hitting the delete key with regards to this particular discussion (and I'm using that term incredibly loosely with regards to a few of the responses).

I would love to be told that I'm missing some incredibly obvious way to unsub from a specific discussion, or even that perhaps there is a better place for this discussion to be held. If there's no love there, I can certainly continue the use of my delete key. I was just hoping there was another option. Here's hoping the discussion is productive for those of you wishing it to be.

Rob Reinhardt

Hi everyone,

I have a few thoughts on this. Fortunately, I was able to be a part of the discussion at DrupalCon mentioned in this thread so I might have some more background than most of the folks who participate from TriDUG.

I think the idea of having a unified Drupal organization for NC and SC is a great idea. It's already been mentioned a few times, but I agree that the path to create an LLC within a month is quite aggressive. I get the feeling that there is an immediate need for the Asheville group to have this, if so, I think Asheville should proceed with whatever they need to be successful. On the same note, I think that could be the pilot for the larger vision of a Drupal Carolina's.

Since DrupalCon, TriDUG hasn't even had a chance to discuss this topic as an organization. I've mentioned it to a few people, but it will not be presented as a topic until later this month. I believe that TriDug has similar financial needs, we don't have a way to accept money into a "general fund" so to speak.

My recommendation at the BoF from DrupalCon was to first establish a structure for communications. I'm not sure I've seen this proposed yet. I think the outcome of this thread should be a proposal for how the different DUGs can communicate with each other, in a public / transparent way.

Right now, all of the NC / SC DUGs seem to operate independently. I think the next step is to see how we can continue to operate independently, but work together for our common passion: Drupal! And perhaps, solve a common issue: financing events--by creating a formal organization with buy-in from each group.

I have years of experience with this in my local communities. I've successfully, united 10 different neighborhoods (a mix of HOA's and community groups) under an umbrella organization. We are currently working towards establishing a governance model. It's messy. I was aggressive in the original timeline and it blew-up in my face. But I saved it. We started going down the path of creating by-laws, etc, but I realized what we really needed was more formality. We are currently working to establish buy-in from the different communities that will be a part of the neighborhood-wide alliance. I see many similarities in this discussion.

I hope this adds to the conversation and I look forward to seeing other peoples ideas on this topic.

Jason

Jason Hibbets, RHCSA :: Twitter: @jhibbets
Project Manager | Brand Communications + Design
Red Hat :: 1801 Varsity Drive :: Raleigh, NC 27606

http://opensource.com -- Where open source multiplies

I'm going to reply to a few people here:

@sheena - First let me say that ever since meeting you, I have always admired you and your position in the Drupal community. You advised that it was time to move this conversation to g.d.o and since then I have simply been surprised at your reaction to the topic. With that being said, I do sincerely take your comments and advice seriously and have no intention to just ignore what your saying. I'm under no delusion that the people that have been in the community actively for longer than me have bad opinions. Nearly every decision I have made since day one of getting involved with Drupal has been based on the recommendations of those more experienced that me.

I'm glad that you are supportive of the general idea and hope that you will continue to provide your support and feedback, positive or constructive concerns alike.

@jason - "Right now, all of the NC / SC DUGs seem to operate independently. I think the next step is to see how we can continue to operate independently, but work together for our common passion: Drupal! And perhaps, solve a common issue: financing events--by creating a formal organization with buy-in from each group."

This is probably one of the best descriptions of what I am trying to start. I'm sorry to all that I'm much more a developer than a copy writer and it's difficult some times to articulate exactly what I'm thinking.

It sounds to me that you can be an invaluable resource for this idea since you have plenty of experience and know what works and what didn't work.

A few things to re-articulate:

As @doug said: "I don't expect Matthew to fly off and do anything a huge as starting a company until the dust has settled on this and the voices have been heard."

Let me be clear, this is (nearly) absolutely true. Yes we do have an immediate need for a fiscal conduit for Drupal Camp Asheville. The idea [was] to go ahead and start this LLC "Drupal Carolinas" where the first membership was Asheville. It is never the organisations goal to give favor to any of the regions, but it has to start somewhere. Just like the DA had to start with their first camp (LA?) and their second (Colorado?), and then their third, etc. The point is it has to start somewhere.

With that being said when the day comes that we need to file an LLC to because we need to get a bank account DCAVL, If we haven't founded enough support that since the primary role of this organisation is for fiscal sponsorship and its ok to start with one camp and grow from there, then we will create a generic company under the leadership of the local community with the intentions to either 1) change its name to "Drupal Carolinas" and grow it into what is being discussed whent it is more documented and supported or 2) dissolve it and migrate all its assets over to the newly created "Drupal Carolinas" when it is more documented, supported, and created. The generic llc we create however WILL be "independent" of the asheville user group and have the same intentions, bylaws, and hopefully a baseline structure that we are discussing. And in the time between our generic llc and "drupal carolinas" we will be more than happy to bring on any members and to sponsor any drupal event as @sheena suggested.

@sheena / @all - if one of the major concerns here is the name "Drupal Carolinas" in regards to confusing new people to drupal / implication of authority, then I am more than happy to hear alternative suggestions. On of the goals of the name was when people/sponsors see their bank statements, they don't see "Bobs webdesign company" but "Drupal Carolinas LLC", just something that isn't a particular vendor, but an entity that has the specific purpose of holding the bank accounts for these events.

Finally, as I said a little higher in reply to @jason who had some excellent comments, The goal is not to take over or even merge the local communities planning practices, but to provide a solution to the common necessaries of the organisations.

I hope I have been a bit more clear.

*edited for further clarity

I'm glad that things are starting to settle down a bit. I did want to add one comment about including the word "Carolinas" in the name. It was done in the spirit of openness. Matthew and others who support this (myself included) want to support as many DUGs and camps as possible. I see the organization (which I'll keep nameless because that does seem to be a point of contention) kind of like a foundation or the United Way: companies and individuals can write a check to the organization, which can then be passed on to DUGs and camps throughout the state/region: no skimming off the top, personal financial benefit, or anything else.

One major criticism of the United Way is that large companies could donate directly to the local camps and DUGs directly; however, that has not been my experience. With DrupalCamp Boone and nonprofit organizations where I have worked. If donors have a cause that is important to them, they will find a way to support it. Here's a specific example from my experience helping organize Boone's camp, where we had four platinum level sponsors. We were on the verge of getting two additional ones from national sponsors (big companies). They expressed interest early-on but they had a few reservations (and I think ended up not sponsoring) because they viewed the camp as a "local" event. If the "Drupal Carolinas" existed last year, these two companies might have written a check to that organization, which could have then be passed along to Boone's camp resulting in more money. This would have helped the entire community because we could have hired someone to record videos instead of relying on a volunteer.

I know the above example is hypothetical (actually the part of relying on a unpaid volunteer for the videos is the real reason they have been delayed for so long), but you can also look at demographics: companies who buy advertising/sponsorship want to get the biggest bang for their buck. They want to make sure that the event they are sponsoring will be well-attended and have a broad impact. Metro Atlanta has a population of about 5.28 million. It takes NC's top three metropolitan areas (The Triangle, Metro Charlotte, and the Triad) to top that at 5.34 million. Drupal Camp Atlanta is a great event that attracted a lot of several national sponsors and introduced a lot of people to Drupal. I wish it were not the case, but successful events need a healthy budget.

I get the feeling that several people are weary of a big organization "taking things over" or that an umbrella organization will still leave them outside in the rain. I understand that perspective. I used to have similar concerns about the United Way... until I worked for an organization that received United Way funds. Instead of taking anything over, receiving support from the United Way resulted in donations we would not have otherwise received.

I don't want (and I don't think Matthew or anyone else wants) this organization to take funds, momentum, attendees, or anything away from anyone. I see this organization as supporting as many people as possible and growing the Drupal communities in the region.

Honestly, yes the above example could happen.... but I think it can be avoided with good communication, openness, and mutual respect. In my example, the organization could solicit donations from a few big companies who would not otherwise be involved (Company X may not give $1,000 to a single camp, but might give $5,000 to a regional organization that could then equally support 5 camps). Also, if a DUG has an exclusive relationship with a sponsor, that should be honored and respected by everyone and be "hands-off."

Obviously, there are a lot of details to sort out. This is where communication / collaboration comes in.