Posted by jhedstrom on August 9, 2011 at 3:35pm
The Pacific Northwest Drupal Summit (October 14-16) site is live and ready for registrations and session proposals.
Space is limited, so register today.
The tentative deadline for session proposals is September 8, at which point session voting will be opened.
Comments
Ok don't get mad
I searched for clues on our Drupal org page for how to "Post new Thread" - but couldn't find out how to communicate other than adding a comment to an existing discussion.
So actually my topic is not the train trip but a 'help' as I try to understand a beginner's mistake I've made.
I pasted a Paypal Donation Button code into a Drupal block and set it as Full HTML - as per Drupal instructions. But on the web page it just shows up as code, not a button.
Maybe you don't know what the code should be set at, but even if you know how to add a new thread, that would be helpful :)
Create New Discussion
That's what you're looking for. It's in the menu on the upper right, 4th item down.
Good luck!
Jennifer
wtf?
You guys want to take this to email Please? Your filling up everyones email. thnx T
Drupal Website Company
cross-post from Willamette Valley / Western Oregon
UPDATE: I might not attend due to a philosophical disagreement with a presenter having to pay to present. The organization(s) behind the summit feel as though it is a "privilege" to present, and through my thousands of hours of community service/free-event creation in the Native American and Drupal Communities, I have found the truth to be quite opposite: its a privilege to have someone present and share their wisdom and knowledge and they should be supported, given an honorarium (if deemed appropriate), given housing and fed. I feel as though there is a very corporate feel to this, on their website there are numerous corporate sponsors, including Aquia, accounting for at least $2,500 in obvious revenue, without any public disclosure of where the funds are going. I also asked them to waive the price, and they would not and would not discuss it. I feel like this is opposed to open source ways in general (i.e. give first). The PNW Summit Team (or the one person I was allowed to speak with from a prominent Portland Drupal firm) feels as though it would be too time consuming to address this issue in the upcoming 30 days, and did offer to speak about it next year. I did not find that acceptable. There was no "give and take" or 50/50 split offered, even for hardship concerns. I said that I could only afford to come to present for free if I knew I was presenting in advance, and they offered to save me a ticket. I was wondering if I could be chosen as a presenter and then have no tickets be available, so thus I couldn't come? hmmm. Additionally, they said it was the precedence that all Drupal events like this are paid for, and I find that to be a common tactic large corporate organizations use to avoid discussing real issues, "its always been this way, etc. etc.". I have been involved in events for years, and the fact of the matter is that you only have to charge presenters to come if you do very little to no upfront work in terms of fundraising or support. They might mention that I did not volunteer, however if I was slated to be a presenter and share my experience, is that not volunteering to serve the community itself? Just thought others would like to know. If you vote for my event and make it prominent and needed, the PNW Summit "team" might consider giving some options to the community to present, and re-think the stuck up attitude that it is a "privilege to present".
I would also like to note:
The sponsor list has grown to over, $10,200 in publicly stated sponsorship. Still asking people to pay to present?
GOLD: $2,200
Metal Toad Media
Open Sourcery
SILVER: $1,100
Agentic
Acquia
ThinkShout
Fuse Interactive
BRONZE: $550
Drupal Connect
OMBU-Web
COMMUNITY: $150
Buildamodule.com
DrupalSN
Really?
If I can be frank, your attitude about PNWDS and its fees and about speaking at this event makes me angry, and I'm compelled to respond with a few thoughts.
First, the Pacific Northwest Drupal Summit runs on a pretty small budget, and it only costs, what is it, $50 to attend? That is really very very very minimal compared to any other professional conference you might look into, outside of the Drupal community anyway. Be grateful that they have sponsors, or you would be asked to pay even more. If you want to be at PNWDS, then pay the fee and go. If you don't want to be there, don't pay the fee and don't go. I personally want to be there, although I have no intention of speaking (well, maybe) or of attending even a single session (probably). As a freelancer, I feel like I need to be there, for exposure and networking.
Second, I have only ever heard of people getting compensated to present at conferences similar to this one (or even bigger ones) if they are an invited keynote speaker. I have only rarely heard of conferences that comped admission for contributed sessions. It just isn't done, that I'm aware of. Do you know of conferences that comp admission for speakers, or do you just think it should be done by this one?
The reason for this is that, as much as you may not believe it, speaking is largely beneficial to the speaker, for exposure, credibility, etc. Most of the contributed (and keynote) talks at most conferences are not of much benefit to the audience. In my opinion at least...
And finally... Some large conferences (such as the N. American and European DrupalCon) have scholarship programs for people who are unable to attend for financial reasons, but that costs lots of money (you have to be prepared to pay for airfare and hotel for attendees, and that can add up quickly), so would require getting additional sponsors. For a regional Drupal event like this one, I'm not aware that any have scholarship programs. It's just not really feasible. And for DrupalCon, the scholarships are based on people's contributions to the Drupal community, not on whether they are speaking.
Well... I've vented... If you want to organize your own event that works the way you want it to work, go for it! But this event is very similarly run to other regional Drupal events. It will be good. Come.
Drupal programmer - http://poplarware.com
Drupal author - http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920034612.do
Drupal contributor - https://www.drupal.org/u/jhodgdon
Yes, really
If you've ventured outside of the Drupal community a bit, you'd see that it is very common practice to not charge speakers to present. Only corporate-like events have the audacity to charge those that make the event worth coming to, the presenters. It also reveals the corporate nature of it (money making) - there is absolutely no disclosure of costs or expenses. It does not only benefit the speaker, and you have a very limited view here, because their intention is to share in an open way, letting those who want to learn, learn, so their own career and personal path is benefited. I have helped organized events in the past, and my post does indeed come from experience. I'd be happy to help organize in the future. Somehow I did work with the www.redearthdescendants.org , for free to build their Drupal website, and helped run 4 major free events per year for 5 years, and we also managed to give honorariums to "keynote speakers". We would actually form human relationships with people and create trust and goodwill.
It is also a privileged position to say $50 is not a lot of money - perhaps the silver spoon of life hasn't shown you how $50 is the difference between eating or not for a couple days.
LASTLY: let me repeat, I am only thinking that one should not have to pay to present. I am fine to get my own hotel / food, etc. even though it is common that that would be covered, comp'd, reduced ( I see some deals), etc.
Charging Presenters
I can't speak to corporate-like events. But as a non-profit national membership organization who hosts a national conference of Arts funders, GIA does not charge non-member presenters to attend our conference on the day they are presenting because they are presenting as a courtesy to the arts funders (who are the conference audience) to help the funders do their job better (the purpose of the conference).
The funders/members who are presenting, though, who are largely members of GIA, do not get to attend the conference for free just because they are presenting. As funders, they are presenting to their peers, which raises their prestige and elevates their leadership role within the professional community they serve.
So I suppose that if you are an expert in some domain that is tangentially relevant to the Drupal community and you've been invited by the Drupal community to share your special knowledge so they can improve their work--but you're not in the business of making Drupal websites--then maybe there's an argument to be made.
If, however, you are in the business of making Drupal websites, I'd take the opportunity to stand up in front of my peers and display my special wisdom, as well as my commitment to a vital open-source community that is a key element in my career. If you present well, the conference fee will certainly be rewarded many times over.
Can't have it both ways
If precedent isn't a valid argument against your point, then surely it's not a valid argument for it.
re: Really
AFAIK speakers pretty much never have to pay registration at non-Drupal open source conferences (which makes sense as it takes a lot of time to prepare a speech so it's a significant contribution in and of itself). Many conferences in the non-Drupal world also pay travel/hotel. I agree that $50 is super cheap for a conference, however, so it probably isn't possible to do that. It would make sense to me, however, to allow speakers with limited means to apply for their expenses to be re-embursed via sponsorship money (if possible).
Hear. Hear!!!
I second everything you said Jennifer.
Camp economics
Smaller camp-style conferences have fewer attendees and large costs, especially in major cities. The economics of offering speakers free tickets is great for a conference that can afford it, but unless you know every line item in the budget, back off. Generally any additional profit from camps usually goes to help get next year's event off the ground and be able to make deposits on venues, etc. No where on the site does it say "you will get a free ticket if you are presenter" so you should understand that if you are submitting a presentation, you should be able to go.
If you don't like how an event is run, here's the beauty of it: organize your own! No one is forcing you to pay nor attend. By the tone of this comment one would assume there are no other alternative options to help spread wisdom and knowledge about Drupal. None. When in reality.
I will add that events should consider some for of scholarship options for attendees that need assistance, but within reason. It would be nice if companies could 'sponsor' scholarship attendees, but it's up to the individual events if they do something like that. It's not a requirement or an expectation.
Heck, you yourself could pitch to companies in your area or that you have worked with to ask if they'll sponsor sending you to the event and you'll give them a plug at the end of your presentation.
I'm not going to touch the expectation that you should be housed and fed as well. That's just ridiculous.
Senior Drupal Developer for Lullabot | www.davereid.net | @davereid
Its not ridiculous, its
Its not ridiculous, its common. Live a little - in Native American culture there are numerous high profile events run where people are housed and fed for free, YES that is possible and YES its the right thing to do. We're a little too messed up in the brain to get that, but that's besides the point.
I want to present without paying to present. That's my only point, everything else was brought up for perspective's sake.
I'm not about plugging people - I'm not about being sponsored - I'm offering something to the Drupal community that they don't have yet - seems like its not right to charge someone to do that. I think a lot of what you're suggesting might make sense if we were talking about Oracle or Microsoft Conferences, but in fact we're talking about Drupal, a FREE, open source solution. We should use open source mentalities in our events just like we do in our software. makes sense? perhaps this is too simple.
Just doing a quick line by line, the website just had a button to submit a topic. It did not require you to buy a ticket. That's kind of an obvious disconnect, I emailed them honestly wondering if I'd have to pay. I am very un-used to this , and yes, I'm happy for that because its not correct to charge presenters to present.
Additionally, if only the PNW Summit was willing to deal with me on a case-by-case basis, I would't have had to bring this up as a community discussion.
re: Camp Economics
I've been involved in conference organizing the past (relatively cheap [~$150/$200], non-profit conferences) and we were able to pay hotel fees for out-of-town speakers and provide all speakers with registration in appreciation of their contribution. So it doesn't seem that outlandish a thing to consider, to me.
Sure, you just tripled or
Sure, you just tripled or quadrupled the ticket price of PNWDS, it would be easy to pay for speakers in that case.
Senior Drupal Developer for Lullabot | www.davereid.net | @davereid
Hmm
The comment was merely suggesting its possible to find a way to pay for presenters hotel and travel expenses, and it also illuminated how that would be a good thing to do, if you cared about the people presenting and teaching you. In this case, we are wondering why people would have to pay to present. Is having the limited pool of presenters comp'd going to increase the bottom line cost for non presenters? Hmmm..I'd like to see the stats behind that.....
Yup
Yup. And $150/$200 is still cheap for a conference (and, for folks to whom $150/$200 isn't doable, lower rates can be given on a first come first served or case by case basis). I don't know the financial particulars of PNWDC and I'm not saying this is for sure how things should be priced, I'm just saying this isn't anything close to an outlandish pricing model in the world of open-source conferences.
Hrm, I think your idea of
Hrm, I think your idea of corporate events is somewhat the opposite of reality. Corporate Events like OSCon do give free memberships and then charge $1,200 to $1,800 for admittance. So it's free for the presenter, but everyone else pays through the nose. This is not a corporate event. This event is run entirely by unpaid volunteers and the cost of attendance is very low.
Nobody is making any money off this. Sponsorships are used to keep the costs down for attendees and to provide additional services. Volunteer-run events tend to either charge everyone, or to comp presenters. It is a choice usually made for sound reasons that are not at all what you imply, though I will have to leave it to one of those involved in the decision to explain the reasoning in this particular case. Sometimes comping just gets to be too complex when there is an attendance cap, as there will be here. I personally favor comping presenters, but I never make assumptions like yours when this is not done. Quite the opposite in fact.
As a general rule, people like myself attending smaller conferences that are by the community and for the community, are quite happy to pay attendance because we're helping our community and helping make the event possible and affordable for all. The philosophy of this event is that it is more of a gathering of the best and the brightest in the NW and about cross-pollination of knowledge and ideas across the region, rather than just another a conference. It is not about being a privilege to present, it is about all the members of a community coming together to make an event happen for the benefit of ourselves and our community. At a lot of volunteer conferences I go to, both the presenters and all the volunteers also pay their own membership, for the same reason, and the volunteers with the most important jobs give a lot of their time and often their own money to help make it happen.
Volunteers are awesome! We owe the volunteers involved with this summit because without them this event would not happen. We certainly should not be attacking them. Disagreements can be handled with decorum, without resorting to the kind of fallacious augments and name-calling you have indulged in. These volunteers are running a very open source conference because everyone chips in and the community makes it happen for itself... without thinking about profits and by putting community and volunteerism first. They are putting in huge amounts of their own time that is lost billable time worth far more time and effort than a presenter. I have both presented and been on staff at a number of conferences where I also paid attendance, because it was about community, not profits. So sure, there are examples of great open source conferences out there where presenters are comped, but there are also examples where they are not. This is not a one-size-fits-all situation.
Corporate events are about big profits, huge membership costs and they are the ones more likely to give out free memberships because it is good for business. Volunteer events are about what do we need to do to make this community gathering happen. Now you can argue that comping presenters should be one of those things, but that is a decision that the organizers make and it is based on the circumstances of their event. If you want to change it... volunteer to help run the next one!
And might I suggest that next time, instead of aggressively making unfounded allegations, that you approach it with the assumption that good people made a decision that they thought was best under the circumstances. Maybe you don't agree with it and maybe you are even right, but you don't know until you have the facts, so maybe start with a request to have those reasons made public and possibly debate them, but do so with respect and gratitude for the immense amount of work these people are putting in on our behalf.
Sala kahle,
Grant
OK, I think there's some
OK, I think there's some sensible humanity in this post. I only made this thread because of the treatment I received via email - I did attempt to resolve this before taking it here, FYI.
If the organizers would like to present a real argument as to why they won't allow presenters, who the community pick BTW, to present for free, and it makes sense, I'm happy to just edit every post with blank spaces.
If the organizers would like
As far as I'm aware, the sessions are picked by a session selection committee made up of local community members, not the community as a whole.
As far as presenting you a "real" argument, I think you're hurting you're point. As far as I know you asked whether or not presenters had to register, and when told they did, you proceeded to claim that is un acceptable. While this is a very important discussion to bring up, you're inability to accept the answer for this event and subsequent accusations are uncalled for. As a person who is planning on submitting sessions and has already purchased his registration, I would be upset if the policy were changed after registration had been opened and later presenters were given free registrations. I do not think it unreasonable for the organizers to tell you that it is their policy for this event, and that its too late to change it.
TL;DR: Discussion about whether presenters should have to pay registration fees is good. Attacking the organizers with vague accusations isn't cool.
Hope you can make it
slavojzizek, I understand your question about the issue of free admission for presenters. Many conferences approach this in many different ways. As an organizer of the summit in the past I know this was an issue we talked through and came to the decision that everyone attending would pay the same, no matter if as a speaker or a sponsor or neither.
I encourage you to come and check the conference out. I think you will have a great time and would be hard pressed to find a bigger bargain when it comes to conference costs. You can also be on the look out for volunteer opportunities when the Summit comes back to the PDX as these conversations can always be revisited in the planning stages of the conference.
Hope to see you there!
-jared
Jared
Some of this is reasonable, but you make it sound as though there's no room for change for this year? I thought the nature of open source was that it was free, and open to change and review. Do we not apply the same principles to our events? Hmmm.
Do you not think that if a group makes over 10 grand in sponsorship, that they should consider letting the presenters get a reduced/comp'd price?
You had me confused for a second
Here I was thinking, "Really? They are charging people to present, that is a little odd."
Then I realized you were only upset because you weren't given free admission to an event that you are unsolicitedly offering to present at. Keynote speakers get expenses and honorariums in every event I have ever seen. Solicited speakers generally get free admission, maybe travel expenses (at big events) and usually lunch. Volunteer presenters get to add a line to their resume.
META COMMENT
Some pertinent points
Before making this thread, I used the contact form on the site to speak with the organizers. They were unwilling to address my needs and concerns, and I could only speak with one person, they did not give me access to the contact information for anyone else, so I had no ability to see if this was policy vs. opinion. Lets just be frank here; there's no phone # on the website to call: did they wanna work things out like this?
I only want to present, without paying to present. No one from out of town, who has to pay for gas/food/hotel should have to also pay to present.
An organizer of the event said it was a "privilege to present".
Additionally, they would not disclose financial evidence as to why they needed presenters to pay. Resulting in my questioning around the soundness of this practice. Corporate and evil? Probably not as bad as others, maybe just on a smaller scale? Maybe. Or maybe I'm wrong -doesn't matter, if you want people to subsidize your event and "share the costs", you have to share the costs and revenue! People cheat and are unfair too often now for me to blindly trust, sorry.
Where does the extra money go after the event is done? Their website clearly shows the 10k already received from sponsorships.
Is this a 'closed' topic because its potentially embarrassing or makes someone lose face? Or, can we talk about this because its important?
Open source is about giving first, being free to use and distribute - why is our event different?
Presenting is a form of volunteering - its giving away hundreds of hours of research, for free!
There are clear ways to proceed: presenters are chosen, maybe I'm not even picked! ones who paid, get a refund. its of no consequence to the event most likely. its an important philosophical point. OR, we ignore the issue this year, and deal with it next year.
Its not free admission to an event - the organizers need our topics and our help to have an event, so we step up. We shouldn't pay to share in a way that benefits everyone. In fact, if this point rests on it looking like I'm a freeloading scumbag, let me repeat my offer that I'd gladly come 5 minutes before my presentation and leave immediately after, if its really that big of a deal.
There are numerous local, regional and worldwide examples of how non profits and possibly other open source projects can have events where presenters don't have to pay..wonder who/why/how this decision was reached here? Also, if we talk about it, and don't agree - we can just not go, sure! But it would be easier to just make a policy that made sense!
EDIT
I am, reading this thread
I am, reading this thread from California and I feel sorry for us Drupalistas as this discussion paints a truly pathetic picture of the Drupal community. A person who commits to prepare a presentation to share his/her knowledge adds value to the proceedings. To make him also pay the $50 is beyond pathetic. Most people come to hear experienced presenters and the presentations are the meat of these conferences. The keynote speakers are most of the time just icing on the cake. It is irrelevant whether the speaker applies or his contribution is solicited. Yes, the speakers might benefit from the exposure but when I hear things like " it is a privilege to present" I am afraid we are just getting a little too full of ourselves.
Every drupal based camp I
Every drupal based camp I have presented at, I have also paid the camp registration fee (and often thrown in a personal sponsorship for good measure). Most camps just about break even and they are cheap for all to attend. I'd rather see that everyone has a low cost than a select few. Most presenters do the presentation because they want to share knowledge not because it a save them a few bucks.
ourfernie
examiner.com
Filling in the blanks
Hi Zachary -
I'm not helping out a lot with the Summit this round since it's in Portland, but was a core organizer of last year's Summit in Vancouver, a volunteer the year before for Seattle, and a core organizer of the Vancouver DrupalCamp the previous year, so have some background on the history of the decisions, etc.
(Someone please correct me if my memory fails on any of this!)
The only one of these events that was free to presenters was the Seattle PNW Summit, and that is because it was free to everyone - they were lucky enough to have a large company (Adobe) sponsor by providing space for the event on the condition that it was free to attend, which was super cool! Sponsorships covered the rest of the costs that year, which were food, supplies, and a bit of swag (though I think shirts were extra?)
All of the rest have been around $50 to all attendees, including presenters and day-of volunteers (except for core organizing committee, who no question earns it!). The reason for this, like Grant and Dave have said, is that it is a community event, not a for-profit event. This means:
There's no profit, you ask? There's no profit. Yes, there have been surpluses, usually running around $1000-$3000 per year - we talked about various options for the Vancouver Camp and Summit, regarding what to do with the money, and have wanted to put together a scholarship but haven't managed to yet (it's more complicated that initially thought), so for as long as I can recall the surplus has been given to the next year's conference organizing committee to be used as seed money for the early/upfront costs (usually facility rentals). Vancouver Camp gave surplus to Seattle Summit, they gave surplus to Vancouver Summit, they gave surplus to Portland Summit, and here we are.
Facilities are probably the biggest cost, the two I was involved with ran around $3500-$8000 all told (with AV costs), so it really is where most of the budget is spent. Other than that, we've always done our utmost to keep the other costs reasonable so that the tickets can stay dirt cheap as they are.
The thing is, let's say that there are 30 presenters a day (5 tracks, 6 sessions) for two days, then 60 people need free tickets - that's almost a third of the ticket sales, so it really does make a dent. For a community event like this, it's been a necessity to continue to charge a ticket price.
I hope that answers some of your questions - try and give the organizers the benefit of the doubt, they've been working hard to make this event great for another year. If anyone wants to help get rid of a ticket charge for upcoming years, the best thing you can do is help secure free venues!
And more importantly - see you all in Portland in just over a month!!!
Why haven't you acknowledged
Why haven't you acknowledged that its the right thing to do to make an event with the basic premise that presenters don't pay to present?
Because I disagree.
Because I disagree.
Presenters at events
Over the past twelve years, I've presented at a lot of conferences, summits, etc. on a variety of topics. They've ranged from events where people paid about $15 to come (events that did not have a free venue) to those that cost hundreds of dollars per person. In all that time, I have never had to pay to attend the event I spoke at. Sometimes I only received a ticket for the day(s) I was presenting, and sometimes I received one for the entire time. It was the same whether I was contacted and asked to present or whether I threw in my name when the call for sessions/presenters went out.
Volunteers are key to your event, whether they're working a registration table or presenting. Without them, you do not have an event. You should always treat them with respect and appreciate them for what they are doing for you event. I've worked with thousands of volunteers over the last two decades and I can tell you I have NEVER told them that it is a privilege for them to volunteer for me. Instead, it is a privilege to me that they helped me with my activity or event. Without them, I would be doing a lot more myself and likely be extremely stressed while having a very unsuccessful event.
Since a call was put out requesting ideas for sessions and people to lead those sessions, it should not matter whether you were asked to participate or you volunteered your time. You are giving something of value - your time and your expertise. Without those sessions, you do not have an event. It is actually not that uncommon for session leaders to volunteer themselves while keynote speakers are asked by the event organizers. Otherwise you end up with the same people leading the same events from the same circle of people. By opening up the sessions and allowing people to contact you and volunteer, you bring in new ideas, new information, and keep your event from being the same every time.
As someone who has volunteered more than a hundred thousand hours of my time to various organizations, I can tell you that the way an organization treats its volunteers says a lot about an organization. And as a trainer, a volunteer, and a business owner, I will not give my time, expertise, or money to any organization that doesn't treat their volunteers with the worth they deserve. And to be perfectly honest, it is why I chose not to be a sponsor of this event.
You need to realize that potential sponsors will take into consideration how you treat and appreciate your presenters and other volunteers. They only have so much money to spend on sponsorships and a lot of places they can spend it. If they see you do not appreciate those who give their time, they may chose not to give their money.
Jenni Simonis
http://www.forwardsupport.com
pay to belong
I must say, every since I found out that presenters paid to belong in the line-up at these events its made me re-interpret the the word "community" and mentally read "market"
pay to belong
No one is paying to present.
No one is paying to present. Please stop saying that.
You are paying to attend a conference. Even if you go ahead and pay the registration fee, you're session may not be selected.
so sponsors are not presenters?
so, sponsors don't present ?
or sponsors only present if they are selected?
is there an example of an event where sponsors do not present ?
my understanding was, correct me, that sponsoring the events, and presenting, is a form of marketing
Hey everyone, It's been
Hey everyone,
It's been really fun to delete all of this out of my inbox, but...You're all drupal developers/themers in a market (PDX) starving for employees! In the time you wasted arguing about this, you could have just done some freelance work and had enough money for yourself, your friend, lunch, beer, taxi cabs, hookers and blow!
If you've got the knowledge and skills to be able to present at this conference and are concerned about the cost of this event, please speak up as just about anybody here can easily help you come up with the paltry cost of this event.
Thanks,
Myself and everyone else reading this mess.
Jesse Nicola -- Shredical six different ways to Sunday! -- My Portfolio
Word...
@jnicol -> "word" :)
TAKE IT TO PRIVATE MESSAGE
This is not as chat room for Drupal gurus to argue in, its a discussion form , PLEASE take this to private message.
Drupal Website Company
re: TAKE IT TO PRIVATE MESSAGE
It's not unusual for discussion forums to have discussions in them. I guess the ideal solution, for busy discussions like this, would be having the ability to unsubscribe from the post (without unsubscribing from the group).
To conclude, from where I stand (or sit)
I think we have come full circle in this discussion. Hopefully we have learned something here. As a reminder, I brought this discussion to the organizers via email, privately at first, to avoid this scenario - I haven't posted it out of respect for them.
Some key questions and take-aways;
Why is there no disclosure over who the organizers are and how the money is being spent? Should organizers be anonymous, having an event website with no phone #?
Are the organizers exploiting the event for innovation, money and perceived position in the Drupal community?
Are any of the organizers keynote speakers?
If a co-lead of the Drupal docs team thinks presenters should have to pay, is that the position of the Drupal community at large?
At any point, honestly, is it that unreasonable for someone driving hours, paying for a hotel / food, to want to have their ticket comp'd for the day they are presenting? In our heart of hearts, do we really object to that?
Do we see something wrong and instead of talking about it, be bought off, swayed or turned away because we already bought in without thinking about it, or do we recognize the truth when we see it?
What is so great about Drupal and this community is that we are at the core of our humanity here - how we give and love and trust, and how we deal with life. Nothing is separate, the way we craft our software could be the way we craft our events, if we wanted to live up to such a true and honest standard. Drupal to me is the most fascinating online community I have ever been a part of, and that we can even have this discussion makes me feel like things are alright in this world.
"Are the organizers
"Are the organizers exploiting the event for innovation, money and perceived position in the Drupal community?"
Seriously?? That is just out of line, and now you are being unnecessarily rude. And of course my (the co-lead of the Docs team in question) opinion doesn't represent the opinion of the entire community, also a ridiculous idea. My opinion has value only because I have helped organize many of these events, spending probably hundreds of hours of time on them with the other organizers so that we can all enjoy learning from each other.
This will be my last comment on this subject thread, as I believe that your interest is not to contribute positively to the community here, but instead to anger people.
Co-lead of Docs Team ?
So this raises another question, Would there would be a need for this discussion if your docs where in order? lol.
Drupal Website Company
Drupal Code of Conduct
http://drupal.org/dcoc Read it.
So this raises another
I'm a maintainer of groups.drupal.org and leave this comment based on that role.
This comment is totally out of line. Your use of this site is a privilege, not a right. Negative and counter-productive behavior is not tolerated. If you continue to behave like this your account will be blocked.
knaddison blog | Morris Animal Foundation
Why do you need a Drupal Meeting?
You cant find anything out at a Drupal camp that you cant find out with a bit of investigative analysis and testing. A lot of Drupal camp founders think your stupid enough to pay for the same info that can be found with a Google search. If it cant put your Computer Science Degree to work, or you feel embarrassed bout asking questions then do a private message. Drupal is not rocket science. it’s a addiction! Feed it yourself!
Drupal Website Company
For the record, I'm happy to
For the record, I'm happy to drop some wisdom AND pay for the event. That is as long as there aren't any brown m&ms in the speakers lounge.
Either way, my session will be crazy informative: http://pnwdrupalsummit.org/sessions/profiling-drupal-xhprof-or-identifyi...
As an organizer for LFNW...
We're an open source conference, free for all participants, but I think whats being missed here is how presenters are perceived.
Most good conferences have a supply and demand curve for presentations. YOU need to be good enough to voted in to present. Its awesome that drupalcamp PDX, along with Scale, LFNW, drupalcon, etc have the ability to vet presenters and accept only the top tier.
We will usually get one or two keynote speakers from the Open Source community and pay airfare and hotel. If we charged admission we'd probably also waive that. These people have demonstrated extraordinary contributions to the community and the supply/demand curve has switched in terms of how many conferences they can attend a year and we need to look 'appealing' in both audience and perks to attract them.
For most open source conferences, the presenter gets the privilege to speak, not the right. Frankly, most of us just don't hit that threshold of an inverse supply/demand curve.
18-24 year olds spend $55 for a 3-day pass for Penny Arcade Expo, sharing rooms with 4-10 other people, hitch hiking to get there, and with barely any money for lunch. They can do it and most of them live at home or work minimum wage jobs between the endless hours of D&D and WoW. I'd think someone who depends on Drupal as a key source of income can figure out how to save $50 to attend a conference that could potentially jumpstart their career.
Enough about this!
Hi there,
I just got home from the gym and have received 34 emails regarding this subject. I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I also believe that this has been a total abuse of this mailing list. 34 new emails regarding this subject - really?
C'mon everyone, just stop.
Thank you.
Cheers,
Robert
If there is an issue about
If there is an issue about whether speakers should pay or not at Drupal Camps/Summits then I suggest its brought up somewhere where the whole community is able to get involved, especially those that organise camps, and not on this thread. Therefore I have started the discussion here:
http://groups.drupal.org/node/173869
What I don't think is fair is that the organisers of THIS event should be getting criticised in any way for taking this line. Its completely normal for Drupal Camps to do this and has been exercised across the world in 1000's of events. If you don't agree with it then it would be sad that you don't attend for a matter of $50 (I only wish I could be there for $50!) but that is your decision. Don't attend, discuss it further (constructively) and find the Drupal events that do it differently. This just comes across as a personal attack on the organisers of an event who give hundreds of hours of their time, rather than any kind of constructive way to ask questions about how Drupal Camps are being run.
I would hope that the discussion can be taken to the Drupal Events group and that the organisers of PNW Drupal Summit (having made their position on whether speakers pay or not) be left to do the important job of making the event as awesome as possible for all those that decide its worth the $50.
http://groups.drupal.org/node/173869
Operations Director at Consult and Design International
Co-ordinator of Drupal North East
Global Volunteer Co-ordinator for DrupalCon
Just to follow up
Who are the organizers of the PNW Drupal Summit? I did not see that disclosed.
There is a tag to the items
There is a tag to the items to do with PNWDS 2011 on your right of this page which links here: http://groups.drupal.org/taxonomy/term/31074
Just a minute reading through that you'll see the disclosed organisers.
Operations Director at Consult and Design International
Co-ordinator of Drupal North East
Global Volunteer Co-ordinator for DrupalCon
Does anyone have a single ticket to sell?
If this is not the correct forum to post a request of this nature, please suggest where I may do so. I hope I don't ruffle anyone's feathers, but this is my last hope for acquiring a ticket. If anyone has a ticket for sale, I would gladly purchase it as I missed the ticket purchase by a few hours.
If you have any good news, please respond to any of my contact methods in my signature.
I hope to see you all there.
Thanks a million!!!
--
Regards,
Dion DiFelice
GreenWide.com
Email: dion.difelice (-at-) gmail.com
Twitter: @diondifelice
Facebook: diondifelice
Skype: dion416 (changing to "diondifelice" soon)
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