Posted by Macronomicus on August 22, 2009 at 10:14am
Surely you've probably seen this, but just in case here is a link to googles O3D API
http://code.google.com/apis/o3d/
O3D is an open-source web API for creating rich, interactive 3D applications in the browser.
Im thinking why not use o3d for the action and 3d of games and interactive website interfaces, what are your thoughts on this? Yeah flash is certainly more ubiquitous, but O3d seems like it will rock our socks off with native app performance in the browser.
Comments
It might be overkill for
It might be overkill for basic websites and forum communities, and I definitely don't want such visuals in my admin interface. I just want functionality. I don't need flashy menus and sound effects.
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Yeah .. wasnt really talking
Yeah .. wasnt really talking about basic sites, would certainly be overkill for them, as folks would have to download another browser plugin (unless their on chrome) just to view them, so I agree totally on that point.
My ideas were more for added features such as games, and other 3d interfacing ... shit there are probably a million things that can be done, one could easily offer 3d areas like some sites offer a flash version and a blandish html version for those without flash or on crappy computers.
Personally I like flashy fast loading interfaces that are user friendly and stimulating to the senses.. but hey some people dont even like ajax which can certainly speed interfaces a lot .. I guess to each his own! Im currently developing some touch screen stuff which I just love, the mouse can be so limiting!
Cheers!
AJAX isn't about being
AJAX isn't about being flashy, it's about speed. I like speed. :)
The problem is that O3D is still a fairly unused, unproven concept. In the future, when all popular browsers support O3D (or something similar), we may be able to expect a lot from it. For now, however, we can only use it as a toy and hope it catches on. 3D was tried with VRML in the past, and I honestly loved VRML.
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A very cool toy indeed! There
A very cool toy indeed!
There are already plugins for all the popular browsers .. even for mac & linux, it comes standard in chrome or will soon. Moreover the wii, playstation & xbox all have browsers that can easily support O3d. I installed it in firefox & Explorer, it worked flawlessly in both.
The real trick will be pressing out every last drop of performance & quality they can manage. Ive always thought that games will eventually all be delivered through the net, just makes more sense for costing and deployment, but the performance has to be there... which it will be someday im sure of it, maybe not with O3d but it looks promising if it catches on and keeps getting better. The nicest thing is its open source.
I guess it depends on how much muscle google throws in and how far it evolves. The other big "if" is game makers that jump in and contribute and help make it better in the process. Ahh ... hopefully things will calm down enough this winter that I can sit down and really have some fun tinkering around with this sucker!
Cheers!
O3D as UI = Failware
I don't think the xbox 360 has a browser, and the browser on the Wii is a version of Opera 9 that complains whenever you try to load a page that takes up 'too much memory' (like Pandora.com).
The reason that 3d, ajax, flash and other plugin-based functionality are shunned or don't take off is accessibility first, security second.
If you look at analytics data for the average site, it's startling how many users are using IE 6, have a screen resolution of 1024x768 or lower, and are on slower dialup or dsl connections. How can you convince them to download and install this 'plugin'? Or will you just cut them off from your content?
Furthermore, what about people with disabilities, users on nonstandard browsers or platforms (like the quickly-growing cellphone/smartphone market) or users interested in getting information as quickly as possible?
O3D is excellent for games and interactive toys, but as a user interface it's failware. Processing power, graphics hardware (DirectX 9, PS 2.0 capable graphics card), screen resolution, the ability to see, browser version, plugin presence! It's too much to ask of a user casually visiting your site. Most of the time JavaScript is too much to ask and that's standard on nearly EVERY browser (even my blackberry curve does rudimentary javascript).
My site gets a 70% bounce rate and I'm using a very standard design with fresh, fairly-regular content. Granted it's still very new and needs work but for the most part, people look at the homepage and then leave, attention span fully expended.
Put a loading bar in front of them and you won't even get a pageview.
The vast majority of folks
The vast majority of folks interested in this won't be using IE 6 -- the only reason that is still supported is because corporate servers are stuck with Windows NT, which only goes up to IE6 -- when those folks go home (to play games, I might add), you'll see a corresponding switch to IE7/8 in your logs.
Aaron Winborn
Drupal Multimedia (my book, available now!)
AaronWinborn.com
Advomatic
A lot of them realize IE
A lot of them realize IE sucks and use Firefox or Chrome whenever possible. Also, some browsers lie about what browser they are, so logs are pretty useless in determining what browsers are popular. I know for a fact that every computer in the library near here uses IE7, and they only use it because their security software requires it. I also used the Lexington Public Library quite a few times, last year, and they used both IE7 and Firefox 2. They also allowed you to run your own software via usb stick, so I often used Firefox Portable.
Half my games use Steam, which uses IE for its web browsing. When you look at the analytics stuff, keep in mind that some of us use Firefox or Chrome but have to use IE when using specific software, like games.
Visit my under-construction site. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
O3D does not require DirectX
O3D does not require DirectX at all. It uses open source technologies, and DirectX is proprietary. Screen resolution isn't much of an issue. Any computer powerful enough to support O3D will have a decent monitor, but even if the user has to use a super low resolution, you can support 640x480, even 320x240. It just won't look as good.
Disabilities are not something I want to enhance 3d tech for. If you can't see, why do you even want to be on a 3d site? Seems pretty pointless to me. I don't think O3D is designed with news sites in mind. It's designed for games and other apps that aren't for everyone. The web isn't accessible to everyone, anyway, if you think about it. Even in 2d. Yet Flash is a huge success.
As for my 'bounce rate', I think it's pretty low. Most of my visitors stay to play a game or read or whatever my site offers as an activity. It's all about marketing. If your site is for gaming, make sure only gamers visit. Don't market a game site to people looking for pillows.
Visit my under-construction site. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
From the O3D site: 'DirectX
From the O3D site: 'DirectX 9, PS 2.0 capable graphics card'
That's in the list of requirements. They don't say it uses DirectX APIs, only that it requires such a graphics card. Such graphics cards aren't chained to DirectX, but are also compatible with other graphics libraries like Open GL.
The reason I made my post is because O3D was proposed as a UI frontend, either for administration or for navigation. I feel this is a waste of time. Building games and building Web sites are fairly different and have different needs. Furthermore, User Interface does not benefit at all from 3d, in my experience.
The web page should load quickly and effortlessly direct the user to information he is interested in and avoid being cumbersome or confusing. Some artistic site designs are obvious exceptions and while they're fun, such sites aren't designed for daily usage.
My advice is to skip UI. If you make O3D functionality for Drupal, provide it in the form of hooks for loading and saving node and user data, so you can use the database engine to augment your games.
But people have designed crazy sites before. I'm just warning against cutting out those chunks of the population who may not be blind, but may want to experience part of the site, yet don't have the abillity to meet the requirements. You know, the people who read a little, but don't play a game.
I wasnt really suggesting all
I wasnt really suggesting all that .. but that said I dont see any problem with a complete site in 3d (in the proper context) nothing wrong with that. Oh.. & there is usually not a lack of reading in games .. it's just done more creatively! Some projects are perfect for an immersive experience and some are completely wrong for it, so I totally agree with you there... I wouldn't do the AARP site in 3d that's for sure!
Sometimes a "website" is not a website in the traditional sense ... like a touchscreen Kiosk for instance, boring static html just wont cut it IMO, yeah flash can handle touch well but I still see o3d as maybe having more potential, guess we'll see.
What I meant by Drupal Backend is pretty much what you outlined .. I see folks are making game backends with drupal and I was curious about O3d handling the 3d bits since it seems to be quite peppy and the code looks fun to work with, was just thinking it could be a catalyst for creating some awesome games and bring a lot of interesting Drupal bits into it such as OG. I'd for one be willing to invest in a credible initiative with a return .. maybe some advertisement space or someasmuch.
Obviously if its mission critical to have everyone see the site then it would be wise to include their needs, & if you really have to have the fun stuff just add that as an extra, & no one gets shut away. However there is something to be said about not watering down something at the expense of creative vision.
Computers just need to get way faster and wayyyyy cheaper, then as many people wont be out in the cold when it comes to the really fun stuff, guess we'll have to get rid of greed then too .. ok whats next on the agenda? lol!
IE6 as anything = Ancient Crapware
Hah ... never lost a minute of sleep worrying about ie6 users (at least not since ie7) in fact I take the greatest pleasure in building sites that dont work for them, the pleasure comes from not worrying (not in their suffering) Microsoft gets all that pleasure for themselves.
Like I said if I make something with o3d .. it will be for folks that "can" use it not for fools using ancient MS crapware, besides there is plenty of leftovers from last century that they can still use if they want.
Guess what .. when I realized that nintendo games wouldn't fit in my Atari ... I went out and got a freaking nintendo .. I didnt whine that nintendo game designers should cater to ancient crapware just because I wasnt willing to progress with the times.
Sorry that was unnecessarily
Sorry that was unnecessarily mean .. Atari was awesome! .. not crapware! It just became irrelevant when new things came along.
IE6 on the other hand has always been crapware from the day it was born!
Agreed. I still like some
Agreed.
I still like some Atari games. To name one, Pitfall.
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I installed the O3D plug-in,
I installed the O3D plug-in, and it apparently isn't working with Firefox 3.5, so I guess I have to pass on it, for now.
Visit my under-construction site. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
Works on my FF 3.5.3 and
Works on my FF 3.5.3 and worked on my older FF before I upgraded yesterday to the latest. Perhaps its your computer?
http://o3d.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/beachdemo/beachdemo.html <--- coolest one!!
Perhaps its your computer? I
I win. ;)
Lols. It's not my computer.
Lols. It's not my computer. Though my PC is crap, anyway, by today's standards.
Visit my under-construction site. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
This link works, and it looks
This link works, and it looks gorgeous, but I have to wonder why it shows the models loading. I would have a preloader. Anyway, yes, that scene is awesome. Needs collision!
Visit my under-construction site. Let me know what you think. Thanks.
2 thumbs up for vision-i
2 thumbs up for vision-i don't think that any site should uses this for there default landing but a library set in drupal to interface with it would be brilliant long term. Not just for skins but gaming extra.
only down side is the currant lake of support in browsers... hope fully soon though! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL#Implementation