Posted by chrisdwells on June 23, 2010 at 9:31pm
I would urge everyone contributing or even those just tracking this Drupal Group to visit this site, watch the film and reflect on whether there is something here that the our Transition Drupal project can contribute to in some way: http://coalitionofthewilling.org.uk
I'm not sure but the third section proposes a three-pronged website strategy involving a social network spanning local, regional, national and global levels to connect climate change solutions to those in need. I know it's not precisely what we're doing but is there something here worth exploring?
I encourage you to take 15 minutes to watch the film and let us know your thoughts on this forum.
Comments
Just watched
Hi, Chris. I just watched the video and I have to give it props for high production values and a huge commitment.
However, I don't think the creators of the video have a complete grasp of the global systems at work.
I know because not too long ago I thought I could bring sustainability to the business community but the truth is that I just didn't understand all the forces at work.
I didn't understand the inertia in the system...or even how colossal the system really is.
I didn't understand that the drive for profit would mean businesses would never willingly accept the end of growth.
I didn't understand that politicians must create growth to keep unemployment down and thus civil unrest too (and to get re-elected).
I didn't understand how money was made and the fraud that is the fractional reserve banking system (yes, I'm reading 'The Case Against the Fed;' can you tell?).
There are simply too many forces pulling for growth and they are core to how we are organized on the planet. Here is a simple proof of that. Ask any climate change campaigner if they'd like to retire. Almost all of them will say 'yes.' But retirement is a phenomenon that demands growth -- how else can just $500,000 socked away ever produce a continuous income stream for perhaps decades after formal work ends?
You see? Even environmentalists don't understand what it truly would take to stop this runaway train.
Our entire economic system is geared for growth. Every CEO is measured on the profit they produce, every fund manager on how well they increase the money under management. Those companies are not going to change how they operate. No way, no how. They will say they are for the planet or some such thing but where it counts — will they willingly contract their company sales — you will get no takers.
In my view, it's best to accept that now. The period of consequences is upon us, probably this decade. This is right on time according to the scenarios laid out by the Limits to Growth team in 1972.
Once I realized that the system would keep going until the wheels fell off, I turned my attention to getting people ready for said collapse (Transition). The game I was playing used to be "create a sustainable human presence on the planet." It was fun playing that game but I no longer think it can be won without going through collapse first. And even then we have to get down to 1 billion or fewer people so that we can live off the energy flow from the sun instead of counting on the fossil fuel jackpot that is responsible for approximately 5 to 6 billion people current alive today. This is not going to be a fun century.
That's the long way of saying: I'm personally no longer inspired by those sorts of projects but if others want to participate and it furthers our goals, maybe there is some way to do that I can't see right now. I'm not seeing it at the moment but that doesn't mean it isn't there.
Andre Angelantoni
Founder, PostPeakLiving.com
I would second the first part
I would second the first part of this, about growth, etc. I just watched Money as Debt http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2550156453790090544#
However, I'm all for Transition Towns!
After watching the Coalition of the Willing, I also thought some folks would have started acting on it by starting the coalition... Couldn't find anything about it.
Intersections
I really appreciate you taking the time to write up that lengthy statement on collapse Andre. Thank you. And @BastouBach, I agree - I hadn't seen anything about them starting the software yet which is kind of the reason I added the link. I saw some similarity between what we've already planned ourselves and the crux of their proposal: a network of high profile sites - a "Web2.0 network comprised of three sites:
These are just my thoughts but when I saw the video I could envisage TD fulfilling some of the needs they describe. What does everyone think?
On a related note, I also recommend skimming the Diss Sustainability plan [1MB PDF] which is not strictly a TT initiative but very similar here: http://www.disscommunity.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/SusDiss2030lores... - there is much mention made of a "local social network" which connects residents with local growers and the "super market" which is essentially a large farmer's market. Very interesting and, again, some cross-over with what a TD site could become. At least it is a goal to aim for.
Sorry
Chris, I should have said a bit more to clarify. It's not a technology issue, it's a paradigm issue that will be the stumbling block, in my view.
Groups like the Coalition of the Willing are still in the denial or bargaining phase and thus they see their job as trying to keep BAU going. Transitioners (mostly) are in the acceptance phase and are already adapting to the new world coming. The gulf between these two points of view is immense. I've had many conversations with people in that place and they still think it's possible to avoid collapse "if only we have a worldwide movement similar to the Manhattan Project" or similar.
Other people/groups still in denial or bargaining are Alex Steffen at WorldChanging.org and the crew at Four Years Go, who has a high-production value video like the CoW (available on their home page). I know some of the people involved in Four Years Go and the last thing they want to hear is that we need to start adapting. The mismatch between their understanding of what is about to happen and what is actually going to happen is completely distinguished by their tag line "The next four years will determine our planet's next 1000."
Really? I assert that the forces at work are now unstoppable and the unwinding has begun. Much of our future is already determined — including climate change — and now we just get to watch the scene unfold. Pick where you are going to make your stand. Get your family and your community ready: the macro trends are out of our control.
In contrast, (most) Transitioners will soon know, if they don't already, that growing one's own food isn't just a nice way to reduce carbon emissions, it may be how they get 50% of their food. Another 25% will come from waiting in a government food line and the rest will — hopefully — be purchased with whatever hard currency is circulating at the time.
They also (will soon) realize that if they don't get one or two backup skills ready, when the economy sheds their current job and there is no replacement, they will need a way to bring in currency to continue paying the mortgage or the property taxes — and to buy the food they can't grow themselves.
The Transition Initiative is in an interesting place right now. Clearly the majority of the people (at least on this side of the pond but I suspect over there, too) have no idea the depth of the collapse we are facing. But the leadership is smart and is finally providing some straight talk. See the impact that Stoneleigh's presentation had at the recent conference:
http://transitionnorwich.blogspot.com/2010/06/stoneleigh-effect.html
People like me and Nicole have been talking this way for years now but apparently it was a shock to the people at the conference. I think we are witnessing the Initiative move from being a teenager to an adult.
Until groups like CoW and FourYearsGo and WorldChanging.org deeply understand what is coming, I predict that working with them will be an exercise in frustration. They are designed to impact an economic system that is rapidly disappearing.
We need to prepare our communities for an epic Depression and how to stay fed and sheltered. CoW just isn't there yet.
But maybe if you reach out to them you will be surprised :-).
Andre Angelantoni
Founder, PostPeakLiving.com
Whoops, still some work to do
Peter Lipman almost gets it. He still has to get to the point that carrying wealth through the collapse is a very good way to help the community on the other side and gold is a reasonable way to do that.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TransitionTowns#p/u
It's not either/or — it's both. Of course keep going with building community — but stop making money evil. It's a tool like any other.
Andre Angelantoni
Founder, PostPeakLiving.com
TT Conference
Hi Andre,
Paul and I should probably have mentioned to the rest of you by now that we both actually attended the TT conference earlier this month! Sorry I didn't get round to it - have been crazy-busy at work ever since returning.
One of us will try to write up what happened but your analysis is correct. Stoneleigh's session was quite surprising for some and set the tone for the rest of the conference. I didn't actually go, since I was facilitating a web/design session but I listened later and was less shocked than galvanised to action.
As to your comments, I recall Peter Lipman mentioning something similar to your statement about carrying wealth through collapse being a very good way to help your community. And with regards to CoW, perhaps as you suggest, we drop the idea of approaching CoW since it would arguably bring about far more work and, possibly headaches as you suggest.
TT Conference
Hi Chris, also edmittance and matslats who I met briefly at ttcon2010.
I was in your web/design session at the conference. I then went to the end of the Stoneleigh talk, which continued beyond the advertised time for an extra 1h Q&A. @aangel I agree with your comments, I don't think the content of Stoneleigh's talk was a shock to conference attendees because the material was new to us, the shockwave response was more because of the highly condensed efficiency, accuracy and certainty of how she presented the information. In the room it really left us with a sense that nothing else in our lives mattered accept for the impending collapse.
@e.m.fields - I'm on board with providing "out of the box" solutions to any initiative that needs them, and to overcome the problem of reinventing the wheel. I'm waiting to see the outcome of all the information architecture discussions here, but I'll also post updates on our initiatives progress into drupal as it happens over the next few months.
Missing the important point here
Hi all,
Most respectfully:
I think we are getting caught up in the discussion of the movie itself and missing the most important point here that djwesto has made here:
"... but the third section proposes a three-pronged website strategy involving a social network spanning local, regional, national and global levels to connect climate change solutions to those in need. I know it's not precisely what we're doing but is there something here worth exploring?"
Transition Towns needs a unified system for helping Transition initiatives get going, a centralized place for communication, and a unified face to take this movement to the world. If we can help share our work, and not require each Transition Initiative to reinvent the wheel, increase the interconnectedness of the Transition movement, and combine our efforts in a way that helps increase the spread of this movement, why would we not do so?
I'm hearing a strong consensus towards Drupal as a possible unified platform - and so, I'll be the first to say that I'm willing to explore moving our Transition Intiative to this platform. Let's get this discussion going, and start moving forward with the idea of creating a Transition Towns collaborative "platform" project.
If anyone is with me, let's get this moving.
Sincerely,
-- e.m.fields
chapel hill, nc
Towards gathering a "coalition of the willing"
@Ian:
(copied in message, see for contact info.) Thanks for your willingness to participate. I think we can gather enough interest between here at the Drupal transition towns forum and the new forum at Transition Network's web/comms forum to get this idea moving, and start discussing a solution to an "out of the box" transition initiatives web platform. More importantly, I'd like to help build a system that can be taken up to the inter-initiatives level, and help create a "spokescouncil" of sorts for representatives from all the initiatives to intercommunicate. It seems like TransitionNetwork.org is the natural gathering point. I'd like to start gathering a discussion on this subject, both here at the Drupal forums, and at the new TransitionNetwork.org forum.
To EVERYONE:
If you will:
Please direct comments if you are interested / willing to join in the discussion on this project at the thread here on the forums - http://groups.drupal.org/node/80714
Thanks!
Sincerely,
-- e.m.fields
chapel hill, nc