Posted by Ben Finklea on February 26, 2008 at 4:58am
Last updated by tjholowaychuk on Sun, 2008-03-02 19:23
Last updated by tjholowaychuk on Sun, 2008-03-02 19:23
How to SEO Drupal.org:
- Better keyword selection. Phrases like "Community Plumbing" are cute/fun/interesting but do little to actually move our cause forward. We should change the title tag to: "Drupal Content Management System, an Open Source CMS"
Link Building Strategies:
Everything above is on-page. Link building is what is actually going to drive the site higher.
- There should be a "Powered by Drupal CMS" or "Built with Drupal Content Management System" in the footer of every download of Drupal. The link should be on the keyphrase, not on the entire sentance, aka "CMS" or "Content Management System".
- We should make sure that drupal is included in the top directories.
Comments
Hello sprydev and thank you
Hello sprydev and thank you for getting this wiki started!
Anyway I think there are some things to be mentioned regarding your points. I'll quote your text so in case yomeone edits the wiki the others can still follow the discussion.
Link Building Strategies:
Everything above is on-page. Link building is what is actually going to drive the site higher.
Best Regards
Sebastian
I think community plumbing
I think community plumbing is quite straightforward, and doesnt hype out drupal, not like it needs it!
I agree that Drupal.org has
I agree that Drupal.org has the potential, and has no reason not to be first for phrases such as "CMS framework", "content management system" etc, personally I think this would be a fairly easy task to include in the new roll out of Drupal.org
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More on this topic is here.
Pretty basic changes,
Pretty basic changes, however you have to remember we can target more than one page to different key phrases of course.. so trying to fit cms, content management system, drupal, php etc all into a single title tag is not really ideal, we have ALOT of pages to work with, we just need to think smarter and research what people are looking for
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drupal
Something like this is a good length and gets to the point:
<title>Drupal CMS | Open Source Content Management System</title>It has enough link juice to rank for those terms. I would put PHP in there also, but it doesn't read as well.
Other terms like "content management framework" could be targeted on other pages.
Certainly, no reason to
Certainly, no reason to shove them all on the front page. I would also take out the pipe character, and personally "Drupal" as well because this would be VERY easy to target on any page throughout the site it would almost just dilute the fact that we are looking for new people who do not know what CMS to choose, if they have researched or looked at Drupal then chances are they will not have a hard time locating the site
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I don't agree that omitting
I don't agree that omitting drupal from the title is a good idea. Drupal is a brand and must be in the title. It's not only about people finding your site through search engines but also about keeping them on your site and making them want to come back.
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Yes that is true, but I
Yes that is true, but I think drupal.org clarifies that just fine. If this discussion is about getting Drupal.org organic traffic Drupal should not be at the beginning of the title tag, or not at all.
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Drupal
Having the word "Drupal" in the title element or leaving it out won't significantly affect organic rankings either way.
The way Drupal sets up title elements, especially with the page title module is generally very good:
This could be argued for
This could be argued for quite a while, I believe any extraneous characters or words do not help, hence the pipe should not be there, and having Drupal in the title certainly would not help, but as you mentioned perhaps it would not hurt alot either, but from my experience I have found that at least having the site name last, or not in the title at all have provided the best results.
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I agree, but not
I agree, but not completely.
It is true that extraneous characters are usually unnecessary bagage, but you can use them to spice up a title. Titles are essentially textual advertisements in the SERP's. An extraneous character is not unnecessary if it adds to the power of the advertisement, especially when it results in improving click through rates.
removing drupal from the title is - in this case - not a good idea. Drupal is a known product and has a strong reputation; the name should definately be in the title.
However, just like tj said, i would NOT put the name first. Promoting a product is promoting them to people who do not know it, or know it vaguely. It should address people who are looking for a cms and people that are looking for a framework, so something like:
'PHP/MySQL CMS and Framework: Drupal rocks!'
This title both has some necessary keywords and really does invite people to click.
That is a good point to be
That is a good point to be made, rank placement is nothing unless the user actually clicks the link! I fooled around with a bit of that on one of our sites, what ended up working fairly well surprisingly was using no capital letters in the title tags, it just seems to stand out more in the listings, when you see the same key phrase over and over formatted the same and then one has no caps, was a weird thing to stumble upon.
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exactly, creativity goes a
exactly, creativity goes a long way :)
Shouldn't people be thinking
Shouldn't people be thinking about whether they are stepping on the toes of Dries first than changing his stuff randomly to look like everything else?
Well I guess that Dries
Well I guess that Dries can't read every single forum post, probably not this one for example, but I am pretty sure that he is aware of the "Slogan Proposal Wiki" where similar topics were discussed. I also belive he will let us know at some point what he thinks about the proposals. Untill then I can't find anything bad about people thinking about how the drupal project and drupal.org site as part of it could be improved. Like eaton said "...Community Plumbing' slogan have served the project well, but like a module whose code needs refactoring, we shouldn't be afraid to change things when the time is right...." I agree with him on this one and I think most people do.
Exactly, I dont see this as
Exactly, I dont see this as an issue at all, its not like we would be tainting the goal of Drupal or 'selling out' its simply just another means to attract potential contributors/users which may have otherwise not known about or considered Drupal at all.
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the whole point of SEO is to
the whole point of SEO is to make websites NOT look like everything else.
???? its to place higher in
???? its to place higher in the engines haha what does that have to do with anything, we just want to draw more people to Drupal
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Why not propose this slogan
Why not propose this slogan change first before working yourselves up about it? I've got strong feelings about this, and I think it necessary to not waste your time, unless you want to just see how the land lies, and then you could do a poll. So first of all why not contact Dries and let him know what your thinking, and see what he thinks about it. Get some backing first. Get his support, if thats what it takes. A lot of splinters happen like this, for instance nucleus had a few problems with some of the community talking over and having it their way. Caused a lot of problems.
Link juice and higher rankings are good for other companies who want to be hyped up, but when you believe in grassroots movement, its not something that rocks everyones boat, and is more likely going to put people off than fatten the crowd.
Using seo words to fight drupal to the top is naughty, and presently doen't need it, as it is presently at the top, and your already here aren't you.
Hey, if you are going to chAnge it, at least keep something in that reminds us we are still a community, and are not doing this for microsoft, or at least until someone buys it from Dries! Why did I say that .. DUH!
yeah, we are here, but many
yeah, we are here, but many people who are searching for "content management system" etc which may not be savy enough to research and stumble upon Drupal.org may end up using a different CMS. There is no reason Drupal.org should not be on the first page for "content management system" and it is not as if we have to choose only one tactic, we have more than one page! common now :P
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Those people who are
Those people who are searching for "content management system" obviously arent aware of the market, and whats about. I didn't come to drupal without knowing or looking or experiencing many other systems, which has actually given me some background on what I want drupal to do.
Its a mistake to carry on in this vain way of making drupal plastered all over the internet for no real reason other than to make your flagrant egos' happy. This is not a personal insult. Please look beyond the initial reaction you have.
Why not use your sites to 'bump' drupal to the top, putting in the seo info onto your sites about how wonderful drupal is, and what you want to make drupal into.
If you dont initially do the footwork to Dries then you wont have the advantage of getting an equal footing. Thank you Dries for keeping this program free.
Proof is in the pudding my
Proof is in the pudding my friend, YOU may not have known to search for content management system, but many people do, the majority of people do, cms/content management system comprises of over 2500 search queries daily. Placing links to Drupal on your site will certainly help although drupal.org has over 87, 000 sites linking to it already so its very solid in that respect. What you are mentioning is far more SEM/IM related.
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I find what you said
I find what you said insulting. Pudding has proof only in nursery rhymes. Although, I'm growing closer to you every time you mention friend.
People dont know what to search for, and hardly know what SEO is or what a CMS is, that is if they haven't prior experience with a system that offers or is lacking in them.
2500 search queries daily does not mean much if it doesn't have a context.
What I dont understand is SEM/IM. But believe you mean Search Engine Marketing and Internet Marketing.
Guess I better sit back and watch. I prefer CMF, but that really means something else for me. I think so many words are banded around and have lost their original meaning, mutating what is attached to it. But hey, I am one only.
It is not ment to be
It is not ment to be insulting, however as I mention out of everything we have all discussed in this thread those key phrases/words are the few which are most commonly searched for, however I do agree that many users do not even know where to begin, which we will also have to cater to, just not necessarily on the front page.
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Might be my bad English.
Might be my bad English. Maybe I don't get what you are saying so I won't comment on text that reads like an insult to me. I might missunderstand "to make your flagrant egos' happy".
However I'll try once more to explain why I think marketing drupal and using seo as one technical is a good idea. Actually let me simply quote Dries with "...If we want Drupal to grow by at least a factor of 10, keeping Drupal a hobby project as it is today, and taking a regular programming job at a big Belgian bank is clearly not going to cut it..." [1]
Now read the full text, read what people have to say about this topic at the right spot, the slogan proposal wiki [2] also read what Jeff Whatcott has to say [3] about it. Then why don't you argue about the slogan at the slogan proposal wiki.
We don't change anything here. We are only using our spare time to help achieving the goal of helping drupal growth. I cant find anything egoistic there.
[1] http://buytaert.net/acquia-my-drupal-startup
[2] http://groups.drupal.org/node/7634
[3] http://groups.drupal.org/node/7634#comment-27273
dont take what I say
dont take what I say personally. that would be a mistake on your part. As I said in context with that, please look beyond the initial reaction.
Thank you for the
Thank you for the links:
http://buytaert.net/acquia-my-drupal-startup
for instance.
I read it, and it gives me light on the projection you are all taking.
Although, 'drupal growth' does not mean drupal 'plastered all over the internet', at least not for me.
I wont take this any further, as I dont think it would do any good presently. It was not a flame or an arguament, merely a point of view, that I can see has no room here, as this is more about inspiration and creativity.
link juice
I think people here are only offering advice with the intentions of helping to make more people aware of Drupal :)
I think Dries and the webmaster list have already heard about this since at least 2007 and maybe earlier...
SEO is not naughty or evil. Getting legitimate rankings for your main keywords makes a big difference and many "grassroots movements" and non-profits use SEO. Even Google endorses SEO and addresses the
<title>issue here.Why are Drupal.org's rankings for keywords like "cms" and "content management system" dropping even though Drupal is getting more popular? Fixing that issue is not a bad thing.
A simple descriptive sentence in the home page
<title>element is "best practice". It is not gaming Google at all.Drupal will be popular even if it ignores SEO though... it doesn't really matter...
Yes it may not matter, but
Yes it may not matter, but its a simple easy step which potentially could attract thousands of new users. Pretty much a "why not" situation.
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There are many places for
There are many places for discussions like "is seo evil?", "how much power should (group) X have in an open source project?", "Should we try to attract more developers/marketing persons/designers/etc"...
This is not the place for such discussions, here as far as I understand it we only want to summarise what could / should be done for drupal marketing using seo techniques. Changing the slogan to X should not be part of the discussion here I think. But collecting what could be done to improve rankings in related terms involves "change the slogan and include keyword", there are other reasons why we would want the slogan to change or not to change but lets focus on SEO here.
To get back to the topic:
are a good way to spread information as well as gain links. With the release of D6 this was done. This could be repeated more often. (Maybe people have done that allready without my knowledge).
http://***.nabble.com/Translation-of-Drupal-6-press-release-td15531939.html
I prefer the term Web(site)
I prefer the term Web(site) Building Toolkit/CMS Building Toolkit to describe Drupal since Drupal doesn't actually do that much out of the box till modules are activated/set up.
I'm not sure though, how effective describing Drupal as a 'Web Building Toolkit' would be when it comes to improving Drupal's rank in the search engines.
The phrase "Content
The phrase "Content Management Framework" seems to be the most popular form of describing such a project.
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title element
If the goal is more traffic it's best to create a
<title>element that contains text that people are searching for -- generally different than the words that one would use to describe a site. Longer descriptions like "it's not just a CMS; it's a Web Building Toolkit" are better for on-page text. (If higher traffic is the goal.)Those extra words would just
Those extra words would just simply dilute the title tag
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Just a Note
I didn't really read this thread, but I think this is pretty relevant:
When I was deciding what program I wanted to use to power my first large-scale production site, I found a list of some popular web development tools. I googled Drupal and almost didn't even click the link because the heading "Community Plumbing" made me think I came up with some sort of actual plumbing site instead of a CMS. Think about that: I almost passed over Drupal because its mantra involves plumbing. Now, of course, I use (and love) Drupal.
my thoughts exactly
When I ran into drupal I was a total newbie. I didn't even know what CMS meant. The language on the front page was greek.
I somehow ran into the site at least a second time and finally figured out it was exactly what I needed. That was a couple of years ago and I've been amazed with Drupal every day since.
I'm of the opinion that the best way to market drupal is through case studies. Maybe article distributions of case studies. It just seems to me that would attract a lot of users.
Of course then you have to keep them. I can see the attraction for Joomla over drupal for newbies. I myself love drupal but I can understand how the masses might go another route.
Phil
I'd be very opposed to
I'd be very opposed to sticking "open source content management system" in the title or an h1, or in fact anywhere prominent on the front page. It's not accurate and it undersells what Drupal is capable of.
About link juice - Drupal 6 has a 'powered by drupal' logo with alt/title text enabled by default on every install, so that bit's pretty much covered.
My Website
My latest social networking website has two catchphrases. The one that shows up in search results is "A world apart just got closer." Relatively short and nondescriptive. Sometime soon I'll likely change it to the other phrase, "A social network for social action." The site, for those who are interested, is http://www.babelup.com/
I think the best phrase for Drupal would be something like "Powerful. Flexible. Drupal." Then the description would be the longer statement, something like "Drupal: an open source CMS for total web development control. It's more than a tool: it's a community." Actually, that would be a good catchphrase too: "Drupal. More than a tool." Or "Drupal: The Community-[built/driven/powered] CMS."
""Note: does not validate.
""Note: does not validate. We would like it to, but that would mean reduced user experience for the majority of our visitors"
that is silly, there is no reason it could not valdate, maybe not strict, but still... As for the markup impacting rankings, its hard to say. I would like to think that this is not taken into account but really you never know, when it comes down to site A placing against site B for the same key word/phrases even the smallest details will push you to the top.
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Why not go for the win?
Regardless of what gets decided about slogans, SEO, tags and so forth. It's evident to me that to increase the size of the Drupal community by the "order of magnitude" desired, some active marketing needs to take place
See my comment on the Slogan Proposal Wiki for more complete details of what I've proposed as a solution.
Right now, within the Google Search Engine Results Pages (SERPs) Drupal shows up with a pretty un-compelling title and description. As a matter of fact, currently, it's the DMOZ.org description text that Google is using.
Pardon my unabashed (nay, proud) capitalist mentality (or don't, it doesn't matter), but to grow the community by an order of magnitude will require a top-down direction and focus, combined with a community-supported marketing effort.
I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but it's such a simple thing to take advantage of the title and description tags for great effect with one's marketing effort.
Further, while a site-wide footer link from anyone willing to give it may be nice... a single page on your site in your own words, describing the advantages of using Drupal and a couple of appropriate anchor-text links would be an immense help to the project, and thus, the community.
For each additional new user, the pool of potential customers for Drupal consultants increases. This is not a bad thing.
Ron Jones
Ron Jones
I think you made a very good
I think you made a very good point about the footer link compared to a dedicated page or paragraph with a link on a single page. It helps a lot when people write about Drupal and it helps to rank well when Drupal.org is linked to with descriptive anchor texts.
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In my little experience in
In my little experience in doing SEO it's better to have the keyword (Drupal) on the title I guess this is for additional theming...If you change domain extension be sure to use a redirection.
-Jan
Marketing Articles
-Jany
Marketing Articles
About keyword in the title
I have allways been using my keyword in the title because every SEO guru
have told me that this is the way to do it,but on the other hand search engines
change theire algoritms and the way they process ifo all the time so I really dont
know what is best at the moment.
Jim
Why the "Community Plumbing" tagline?
As someone who's a relative newbie to the Drupal community, I don't see the need for the community plumbing tagline. It's really just in-jokey and confusing.
I like the description of Drupal as an "open source content management platform" in the box on the homepage. Why not use something like that in the ? This is something that you could do easily, without waiting for a complete redesign, and it would help with marketing and SEO.