FYI; I sent this to Cary;
Hi Cary,
In response to the new events plan, Ryan Cross created a new group for organizing an Asia-Pacific DrupalCon. We've started having several discussions at http://groups.drupal.org/drupalcon-asiapacific-regional-organising-group and would value your input at this time.
The group is restricted by the lack of definitive decisions. While there is largely consensus, no one feels they have the authority to gather the input and consensus, and use it to make final decisions and request action.
Unlike the European group, most of the active speakers/members in the group do not know each other and have little or no rapport. While this is slowly changing, having chairperson or similar would radically speed things up.
I noticed that you "recruited" Kristoff as chairperson for ERDO. Do you think it makes sense for you to recruit someone to chair the Asia-Pacific group? Or would it be better to accept nominations and votes? Who would see this through and what would the process be.
Thanks,
Bevan/
Comments
There are no simple answers
There are no simple answers to your questions. I think that the scope of your name defines the scope of your challenge.
Almost everyone that I have talked to has been from Australia or New Zealand, so there is a big hole where the Asia part is. I recruited Kristoff to head the EU group because I know him, I have worked with him and he is as close to being universally respected as anyone can come. I nave met you, Simon and Ryan, but we have neither the depth of relationship, nor a looming deadline that would move me to make an executive decision.
Questions:
* Does anyone want to take this on?
* If nobody wants to do it, is there someone who would do it if asked?
Whoever steps up needs to be a consensus builder and must be willing to reach out to everyone in your area.
Thanks,
Cary
Cary, Thanks for your
Cary,
Thanks for your response.
I think I am interested in this role. Though before I decide for sure I'd like to have a better idea of what your expectations are of the person in this role. I have a good idea from the perspective of what I think this group needs in order to be able to move forward, however that might not be the same as what you would expect.
What are the expectations of Kristoff's commitments & responsibilities? Would there be anything different between those expectations and the expectations for an equivalent role here?
Also, as you pointed out, the Drupal communities of Asia have not had much of a voice with you (nor here) that is representative of the size of those communities. Would it be unfair to recruit or elect a chair without first taking more time to invite those communities to join this discussion? Most folk tend to think so over at the discussion on How should we define a team?
Who is willing to take this on? Ideally we would get someone on the G.D.O team to assist us to save time.
Is anyone else interested in "Chairing" this group?
Bevan/
Prefer Action
As you can probably see from my other posts, I believe we sd emphasize inclusion and build consensus, however, in this case, I think we sd prefer action. By that I mean we sd go ahead, form the nucleas of the group and give them a mandate to move forward. Given the low participation levels at this stage, continuing to wait is more likely to result in extensive delay. On the other hand, if we are able to show some momentum, move beyond the preliminaries, I think we will get more people involved. In my experience, most people (particularly those who have never been involved in a community initiative) aren't interested in the organizational and bureaucratic stuff. On the other hand, when we start taking about specific events, agendas, etc., there is a level of excitement that gets people motivated.
If we are concerned that people might misconstrue appointing individuals at this early stage, then let's make this the "interim chair" or some such thing. Indicate clearly that this is a nascent organizational move intended to get us moving and that it will be put to the group for a more permanent appointment in 6 months, or whatever.
Bottom line: At think at this early stage we sd prefer action to delay -- at least in this specific matter.
best,
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Let's start with the two actions
Bevan wrote:
> Also, as you pointed out, the Drupal communities of Asia have not had much of a voice with you (nor here) that is representative of the size of those communities. Would it be unfair to recruit or elect a chair without first taking more time to invite those communities to join this discussion? Most folk tend to think so over at the discussion on How should we define a team?
Yes, as I said, I believe the groups are not yet informed about this new group and about the upcoming Drupal conference. In order to research for the new events wiki, I've needed to extensively review all the Asia-Pacific groups, so I think I know what I'm talking about.
For organisation, locations, etc., Bevan suggested -and in my opinion it's a good starting point- that the initial Asia-Pacific process should be modeled after the current European process, adapting it to the regional circumstances.
For example, in the European process, the organising group (European Regional DrupalCon Organizers) is open for everyone, there will also be a Production Team for the work of many volunteers, and there is a small Location Selection Taskforce: "As Chair of the ERDO group, Kristof Van Tomme has recruited a small team to assist in vetting location nominations. The team consists exclusively of people who are either members of the Drupal Association General Assembly (GA) or people with direct experience producing DrupalCamps or DrupalCons."
In the case of Asia-Pacific, I think just one of the current members of the Assembly -one of the Directors- is an Asia-Pacific resident. And most of the event organisers (I've mentioned some of them) are not yet in this group because, while DrupalCons are well-known for European Drupalers, are completely new in Asia-Pacific, and there is a clear lack of information.
There has been a courtesy announcement to about 50 European groups. The case of Asia-Pacific is different, and an initial information announcement to about 40 Asia-Pacific groups is needed (see an example).
ricoflan wrote:
> If we are concerned that people might misconstrue appointing individuals at this early stage, then let's make this the "interim chair" or some such thing. Indicate clearly that this is a nascent organizational move intended to get us moving and that it will be put to the group for a more permanent appointment in 6 months, or whatever.
Well, this is mind reading. I was also thinking that only an interim coordinator would be appropriate at this moment. That person would hear the group's opinions, and would take consensus decisions. But no need for 6 months, surely things will go faster after the groups, including the event organisers, etc., are informed.
So, I would propose, let's start with the two actions: inform the groups, and interim chairperson/coordinator.
Naturally, for this, the current group members should have at least some working days to express opinions and proposals. After that, if there is not disagreement, I think we can go ahead. The information announcement could also include something like: "[Name] is the interim coordinator for the initial organising decisions by consensus."
Bevan, the organiser of the DrupalSouth 2008 and 2010 events, has been the most active organiser in this new group. As a first candidate proposal, I think he could at least be the interim coordinator.
Opinions? Should we go ahead?
I concur with the above
This sounds both logical and appropriate to me. If we have a successful model that has been implemented in other regions, I think we'd be foolish to discard it without some compelling reasons for doing so -- and I don't see them here. Similarly, if we have people with experience, we sd certainly turn to them. Bevan, as you point out, has been really key in this discussion to date and has experience. If he's willing to step into this role, I would support that.
best,
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Some thoughts :
I think it is pre-mature to elect a chair person due to number of people involved in this discussion. Also I'm not exactly sure what is meant by interim coordinator?
What I suggest now is for some volunteer organizers to start contacting some countries. If some formality is needed let's take a vote on whether to contact now by volunteers, and announce that we're looking for volunteers. Come up with a simple country list.
We definitely need a team to get things worked out promptly, but I think it would be more appropriate after we've at least contacted some of the largest Drupal groups in Asia, who most likely don't know this group exists.
updated: I took the liberty to form this list of countries to contact from another thread (numbers are irrelevant, btw).
well..
I don't know why the numberings are getting reformatted in the above post.
Anyways, I think we could decide if we want to form a team before we want to contact countries. If we want to contact countries first, then we could go about looking for volunteers and we'd be able to move on.
Interim/temporary to advance
Fuji wrote:
> I think it is pre-mature to elect a chair person due to number of people involved in this discussion.
Yes, but an interim/temporary chairperson/coordinator is different, in order to advance. Anyhow, that person would just transform consensus into decisions reflecting that consensus (documents, guidelines...).
After the groups are informed, some time -maybe some weeks- will pass until enough event organisers, volunteers, etc., read the information and join this group. Then, more permanent teams can be formed, and they can improve previous decisions when needed. But the group needs some coordination for the time being.
> Also I'm not exactly sure what is meant by interim coordinator?
See for example the European process. It's a flexible model, but it gets things done. We can see Robert Douglass, not the chair but a member of the Location Selection Taskforce, acting as a coordinator, preparing an organising document and modifying it following suggestions until reaching consensus.
In the case of Asia-Pacific, this should be interim/temporary, until enough people are informed and join the group.
> We definitely need a team to get things worked out promptly, but I think it would be more appropriate after we've at least contacted some of the largest Drupal groups in Asia, who most likely don't know this group exists.
In my opinion, since there seems to be consensus about informing the groups soon, one of the first tasks of the interim chairperson/coordinator should be to do this, or to delegate tasks like this to volunteers (for example, I can find a little time to post the information if needed).
nOOb query
Thx for putting together the list -- now the n00b Qs:
How do we reach out to them? Do we post in a particular place (if so, where)? Or contact a specific individual (if so, who)? Or do we do both?
What is the message? "Hey, we exist! Get yer butts over here?" (not being sarcastic, trying to be humorous!)
Who sd do it? I mean, as there is no one official speaking for this group, sd it just be one of us in our individual capacity?
best,
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Details
For those details, you can see the "announcement" and "example" links on a previous post.
list of countries
What about Fiji? Solomon Islands? Papua New Guinea? French Polynesia? etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oceanian_countries_by_population
Let's not forget the 'Pacific' bit of Asia-Pacific ey ;)
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
DrupalCon Asia - Taiwan Contact
Hello, I recently moved from the US to Taiwan (back in Feb. 2009) along with JohnAlbin (Zen's maintainer, and also my husband). We have been working with Charles (Drupal Taiwan's founder) in Taiwan. I would be happy to assist with what you need to find out in Taiwan.
Taiwan might not be a bad place to have DrupalCon Asia. People here understand basic English somewhat and things are relatively affordable here. There are enough people who are bilingual that can help with the language barrier.
Poll: What should be the next step for this group?
Given the current impasse, I've started a poll on possible solutions (coordination, information...) to help advance the development of this new organising group.
Next Steps...
I've not contributed much to this discussion / debate so far.
I would like to see an event with streams for
An event that is useful and accessible to the Drupal community, and a valuable professional learning & promotional opportunity for commercial drupal organisations too. I believe it is realistic to consider a major DrupalCon in Asia Pacific, Oceania every 2 years - with smaller locally focussed DrupalCamps happening every year. The expertise gained in running local camps is critical learning for running a large international event.
I am a willing participant in the future organisation of a DrupalCon in Asia Pacific.
Whilst I would be willing to lead such an event in Melbourne, Australia, I'd also be very happy to simply attend an event in the region, organised by someone else, so I could enjoy it, and learn from it! Where it happens first doesn't matter much, we need a list of criteria, a budget, and a project plan to make sure it does happen, and is a great success building the foundation for future events!
Organising something like this is a huge task. It's a lot of hard work. I regularly organise events, large and small - notables being ongoing linux users of victoria meetings, open source industry australia meetings, was involved in helping with an IT teachers conference from 2004 and in 2007 was employed as their conference co-ordinator. From 2006-2008 I volunteered as Conference Director for linux.conf.au which took place in Melbourne in 2008. Creative Contingencies have been using Drupal for some years and have moved all our web development to the Drupal framework. We are currently re-developing our conference management system in Drupal for another education client. I don't write this to big-note myself, but just to qualify my experience and perspective.
Questions:
Does the foundation expect the conference to be run by volunteers - as is the case with linux.conf.au?
Does the foundation expect the conference to return a monetary surplus to the foundation?
How much does the event rely on sponsorship vs registration fees? Do Drupal Camps pay for speakers? Travel? Catering?
I've never been to a DrupalCon - although I've desperately wanted to attend. The travel cost to reach North America or Europe is considerable, so this development... is very welcome. I would be happy to participate on an organising / selection committee.
I would think you need at least 18 months to organise a large international event. Yes, you can do it in a shorter time frame, but 18 months gives more time and flexibility for venue options, promotion and securing sponsorship.
Teams interested in hosting the first DrupalCon AsiaPacific should put together proposals that outline
- possible venue
- possible dates
- basic travel and accommodation options / climate / culture
- team capacity - experience / resources / networks.
- draft budget
Every effort should be made to contact Drupal communities across the region and let them know this is happening. Let's not get too bureaucratic too quickly ey?
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
Does the foundation expect
Yes and no. The Drupal Association (DA) expects a professional event management company to be contracted to manage aspects relating to venue, catering and other aspects that community volunteers are not able to step up to.
Does Linux.conf.au have a financial relationship with the Linux Foundation?
I believe the DA expects DrupalCons to (at least) break even. Any profits go to the DA and are often used to seed future DrupalCons, or possibly provide infrustructure (hardware, systems) that facilitates the community (e.g. *.drupal.org and *.drupalcon.org services).
There are expectations around the pricing of DrupalCons, and it is expected that sponsorship makes up a significant portion (most?) of the revenue. Drupal camps and DrupalCons rarely (if ever) compensate speakers, with the exception of DrupalCon keynote speakers – perhaps. Lunches for all attendees are typically provided, though I don't believe there is an expectation for this, and it is probably flexible, as long as attendees can get food that meets their dietary requirements. In many potential host cities in Asia-Pacific this means we would need to cater for attendees.
See http://association.drupal.org/node/342 for more details. We can discuss "what DrupalCons are like" more at DrupalSouth Wellington (assuming you are still plannin on coming?). However I imagine DrupalCon Asia-Pacific and DrupalCon South America will develop their own DrupalCon styles, similar to, but not the same as North American and European ones.
Bevan/
Bevan wrote: "Does
Bevan wrote:
"Does Linux.conf.au have a financial relationship with the Linux Foundation?"
No - no relationship at all - other than that the Linux Foundation has contributed to the costs of speaker travel as a form of sponsorship in the past. LCA is run by Linux Australia, but each conference is organised entirely by a different team of volunteers in a different city each year. Surplus is returned to Linux Australia to seed and support future conferences. Professional conference organisers are not engaged to run it.
"See http://association.drupal.org/node/342 for more details. We can discuss "what DrupalCons are like" more at DrupalSouth Wellington (assuming you are still plannin on coming?)."
Yep! Absolutely :) Looking forward to it. Plane Tickets are booked!
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
I forgot to add; <a
I forgot to add; <a href="http://drupalconsf2010.org/>DrupalCon San Francisco is more accessible for those of us in the Pacific than all other recent DrupalCons. Consider attending! :)
Bevan/
Thanks for your nominations.
Thank you for your nominations for role of "chair". In my opinion there are other candidates for this role (whether temporary or not); Ryan Cross (Sydney), Simon Hobbs (Melbourne, Em Space), Brenda Wallace ("shiny", Catalyst IT, Wellington – though I doubt she is willing), many of the most active members of this group, and likely others in more localised groups with which I do not have connections.
I agree that if a person is appointed to this role at this time that it should be temporary, with the intitial goals of;
Bevan/
As far as I understand,
As far as I understand, appointing a temporary chair is going to be useful in making the initial decisions quickly and moving forward to a self-sustaining decision process - when the group starts taking collective decisions.
I am also in favor of bringing together the local communities as a team asap. They have better regional understanding and will play a key role in the organisation of DrupalCon in whichever part of Asia-Pacific. We should capitalise on their local knowledge from the beginning to be making the right decisions for the region.
The role of the interim/temporary chair/team should be to empower these local communities to forge a platform for organising DrupalCons in the region. every other model then can be decided.
my 2 cents
Kinshuk
Coordinator, not chair
Cary pointed out (privately) that terms like "committee" and "chairperson" are not really appropriate here (even though the European group uses them) and suggested "co-ordinator" and "team" as more appropriate terms.
I agree.
Bevan/
Terminology
Agree.
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