Posted by juan_g on October 27, 2009 at 2:19am
Have an interim coordinator for initial organising decisions by consensus
9% (1 vote)
Inform the Asia-Pacific groups about this new DrupalCon organising group
9% (1 vote)
Both, have an interim coordinator, and inform the Asia-Pacific groups
82% (9 votes)
Other (please specify in a comment)
0% (0 votes)
Total votes: 11
Comments
Next Step: Expressions of Interest to Host DCAP
Request expressions of interest to host the first DrupalCon AsiaPacific (DCAP)
Teams interested in hosting the first DrupalCon AsiaPacific should put together proposals that outline
- possible venue
- possible dates
- basic travel and accommodation options / climate / culture
- team capacity - experience / resources / networks.
- draft budget
At Length:
http://groups.drupal.org/node/30112#comment-100702
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
I don't think that this is
I don't think that this is the next step.
First you need to identify your market and all of the interested parties therein.
Then you need ot look at the events that have been held and evaluate them.
Then you should have some more events.
After a few rounds of this, there should be something to talk about.
Thanks,
Cary
In my opinion, the draft
In my opinion, the draft proposals can be very helpful. We should ask the local drupal groups to plan for a DrupalCon, look at the various events that have happened in the region, select the most promising event plan and take it further for an awesome first DCAP.
The reason I discourage that
The reason I discourage that approach is because it wastes a lot of time and energy that would be better spent collaborating. If 10 groups go out and prepare proposals, nine of them will be spinning their wheels.
I should point out that I am using the the term, proposal, in the sense of a full detailed proposal of the kind the Drupal Association required under the previous events model. Of course local groups should >your proposed "propose" synonym here< their cities to the regional group if they are prepared to do the work. They can also suggest possible venues. What they should not do is survey the venues, hold dates at the venues, prepare technical schemes, or do budgets, as these are all things that should be done by professional event organizers once the regional group narrows it down to a couple of candidates.
The local groups should identify potential sponsors, and those sponsors should be encouraged to contribute no matter where the conference is held.
In the end, it will come down to choosing the place where people want to go, where there is easy transportation access and where there is a core local group who is willing to take on a leadership role.
Thanks for clarifying this
Thanks for clarifying this Cary. We'll work on our message and plan for this so that folk don't "spin wheels" too much working on their nominations. Perhaps we should call them "expressions of interest"? Though that sounds very RFP/business-to-business like...
Bevan/
DrupalCamps before DrupalCon
highermath wrote:
> First you need to identify your market and all of the interested parties therein.
Then you need ot look at the events that have been held and evaluate them.
Then you should have some more events.
After a few rounds of this, there should be something to talk about.
I think it would be important to open a thread about Cary's suggestion on the group's next steps (events like DrupalCamps before DrupalCon). If nobody objects, I think we can go ahead.
[Update]
That discussion is now open: DrupalCamps 2010 in Asia-Pacific - The road to DrupalCon
In anticipation of what the
In anticipation of what the outcome of this appears most likely to be, I worked on Juan's announcement draft, and made it into a wiki page so we can all edit it: http://groups.drupal.org/node/32598
Most notably and debatable, I refer to this group as the "DrupalCon Asia-Pacific Organizers" which is simpler but equally precise as "DrupalCon Asia-Pacific Regional Organizing Group" in my opinion. I think simplicity of the name of this group is important given the language issues we need to deal with, and that the announcement will probably be translated into several languages.
Bevan/
some edits
Thanks for this, Bevan. I think you're on the right track. I just made some edits. Nothing major -- just trying to give it a bit more "umph."
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Thanks, Ric
It's good that Ric Shreves (ricoflan) makes edits. He's a writer, including some books on Drupal.
thx!
lol -- thanks for noticing! I'm not sure I made it better, but hey, I tried. If the group needs an editor/reviewer, or someone to draft copy for things, I am happy to kick in some man hours.
best,
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Asia-Pacific at groups.drupal.org
Bevan wrote:
> announcement draft
The currently 40 Asia-Pacific Drupal groups at groups.drupal.org -where the information announcement can be posted- are listed in three complementary places:
Looks really good.
Looks really good,
haven't done any editing, wondering if the invitation should hint somewhat that in the near future regional groups may be asked to send in proposals? that's the part I'm not sure of, might limit the number of people who might initially get interested, although I can also see the benefits of including it to communicate the goals of this group.
As an alternative, I propose a simple 5 line invitation too, which Juan has also lined out in previous threads (I'll find this and add it to the wiki).
update: I realize the current wiki is derived from the invitation I intended on adding as a short version so I won't add it as a second alternative.
DCAPO is cool. It certainly doesn't sound cute.
Respectfully - I disagree
So - you propose that maybe one day we might be allowed to run our own event down here on the other side of the world? Until we receive your blessing we should sit around and talk about it for another couple of years, and waste vast sums of money (and fossil fuels) travelling to the other side of the world to DrupalCons in North America and Europe?
Sorry if I'm misinterpreting you Cary, but to me this just sounds incredibly paternalistic. We have the skills, expertise and experience to do this now. Why the caution?
These events have been identified: http://groups.drupal.org/node/28112
How many more events do you suggest we have? In how many countries?
Did DrupalCons USofA and Europe start off perfect? Have they grown? Can't we expect to do the same, and start modestly with an aim to grow and meet the needs of our region?
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
we've been discussing for months..
we've been discussing for months (going back and forth on topics) on how to start, and we seem to have finally got somewhere today.
Let's not lose momentum, and get right to it, now that we finally seem to have a temporary coordinator that seems willing and motivated to help out.
Should we start the process to start contacting like a dozen countries now? depending on the number of volunteers or how we decide to contact, maybe we should start off with a short list of countries. See how it goes from here.
Are we going to ask Bevan to do the contacting? or work on this volunteer style? if volunteer style, why not start a new thread?
Things seems are getting exciting!
Scott
This is moving forward
Since there seems to be consensus now, Cary -the Director of Events for the Drupal Association- has asked Bevan to coordinate this DCAP group. Congratulations!
Fuji wrote:
>Should we start the process to start contacting like a dozen countries now?
The European group crossposted an announcement to about 50 European groups. We can also post just one informing the 40 Asia-Pacific groups at the same time.
>Are we going to ask Bevan to do the contacting? or work on this volunteer style?
Bevan is coordinating now, so either he can delegate tasks like this to volunteers like myself and others, or he can choose to personally introduce this organising group to the rest of Asia-Pacific groups.
is this what you meant with "post one"?
Who ever goes through with this gonna have like 40+ groups show up at the My Groups menu, but if at least one person joins all the groups that should be notified, then if that person posts a thread and includes all the groups to be notified, that thread would show up at all the groups intended.
Is that what is planned for? Are there other ways to contact many groups efficiently?
just out of curiosity I thought I'd ask. Sorry if it was a simple question.
It'd be interesting to see and form a list of all the groups that should be contacted.
Yes, one info post to the groups
Fuji wrote:
> Is that what is planned for?
Yes :) , that's what the European group did, just for one crossposted post, providing links to the organising group. Probably Bevan will do it as well, or will ask some volunteer to do it, joining the groups for a short time to post the info as a discussion.
>It'd be interesting to see and form a list of all the groups that should be contacted.
This is it:
Drupal groups in Asia-Pacific
The data is now included in a wiki on this group:
Drupal groups in Asia-Pacific
The most critical think right
The most critical think right now is to establish the text for the announcement. The draft still needs some work, in my opinion – mostly to make it concise and keep our message very specific and clear;
Also, a couple of people agreed "DCAPO (DrupalCon Asia-Pacific Organizers)" is better than "DrupalCon Asia-Pacific Regional Organising Group", and no one objected, though I'd like to get more feedback on that from the group members before changing the group name or publishing the announcement. There are other variations that we might consider (or not); DAPO, APDO, ADO, DAO, APDCO, etc.
Finally, the announcement links to the draft location nomination template which needs more eyes and attention before we send everyone to it (though it can still be a draft).
Joining and leaving groups is difficult and time consuming. I think the best way to distribute the announcement on GDO is to create a new GDO user account (username "DrupalCon Asia-Pacific Announcements" or similar) that represents this group and subscribe it to all the groups in Juan's list.
Then we can re-use the user account for all future announcements (probably every 2-4 months) without having to leave then rejoin all those groups. Anyone can create this new user and start subscribing it to all the groups.
Another task (not a blocker for the announcement though) is to copy the ERDO document to a wiki page here and start adapting it for DCAPO.
Bevan/
Comments sections
I've added "Comments" sections to those wikis with drafts, so that people can add opinions about the documents.
I'm not sure if it's better a wiki (everybody edits) or a discussion (everybody comments, coordinator edits) to elaborate documents.
Ideally a wiki with comments,
Ideally a wiki with comments, but this requires intervention from g.d.o administrators
Bevan/
Or wiki + discussion for each document
If a wiki with comments is difficult to obtain, then a good solution would be to open both a wiki and a discussion (interlinked) about each next document. This would be better than the basic comments sections that I added, which are not very efficient.
This could be for the drafts. Naturally, about the initial announcement, when finished, I think it shouldn't be published on the groups as an editable wiki, but as a discussion, just in case people from the groups want to add comments.
Process variance?
I just read through the draft location nomination template. That doc references the "How to Nominate a Location" thread on the EuroCon page. When I check out that link, I see what appears to my uneducated eyes to be a different process, that is, to create a discussion for a location. Is that different from what we are doing?
On a related point, this template (above) really presents a major hurdle to be cleared for anyone that wants to nominate a location. Maybe I am tripping on the word "nominate." To me this reads more a like a full blown proposal. I wd think something like this wd be a second (or third) step in the process...?
Am in confused on the process involved?
best,
rico
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
personally I'd like this group
personally I'd like this group to be not too formal at the inviting stage.
rather than saying "come and check us out! join us!", I think saying this "we're the DrupalCon Asia group and we've got a plan even before you give us any feedback. Send in your proposals, nominations (tons of work..) and we'll check you out and make decisions so come on right out!" is something that should be avoided. Only way to avoid this at all costs is to just invite them and not be too heavy on the nominations etc.. specific topics besides saying the group is here.
Let's not rush things too much at the invitation stage. We're not at the planning stage yet.
Scott
Agree
Fuji, I agree. In my opinion, this is a project to proceed step by step. First step, as you say:
> just invite them and not be too heavy on the nominations etc. specific topics
keeping it informal
I totally agree!
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
wiki : updated
wiki : updated
I'd much prefer if we could
I'd much prefer if we could work on one copy of the draft by making edits to it than rewriting it several times over. If you really want to rewrite it this late in the process please do so here in the discussion/comments, not on the wiki.
I've tried to merge in the ideas from the two rewrites, as well as reduce the size of it, make it more concise and to the point. Most significantly I
I'm happy with this as our post. Are there any issues to it or objections? I'll wait till Monday for further edits or discussion before starting to post it.
In order to post it we;
Bevan/
Well done!
Great re-write -- punchy, casual, informative. I say it's ready to fly.
As for the logo -- want to point me to some examples of what you think might be appropriate? Maybe I can get someone here excited about doing some pro bono work (no promises) at this stage...
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
I like it !!
I like it !!
Should we add "Dear Drupal users and communities, " at the beginning? since we're posting to only Asia-Pacific groups it may not be needed to refer to the readers as "Drupal users in the Asia-Pacific", but I'm not sure.
And also as a suggestion, if anyone feels like it lets have a debate on whether we're gonna refer to the readers at all on all other announcements, at the first line, and if we do, on how to refer to the Asia Pacific audience. How about "Drupalers in the Asia-Pacific, "?? (first suggestion..)
Go for it dude! Nice rewrite!
final draft - good to go.
Good work Bevan,
You've captured the intent, and mood, and internationalised the English well.
Thank you.
I dont think we need to add a "Dear someone" to the beginning... that leaves it more open as to who we are addressing...
good work all.
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
Anything to do at the DCAPO Group page?
http://groups.drupal.org/node/32646#comment-103064 I kind of understand, and think this comment should be given some thought.
Anything that should be considered to prepare the DCAPO pages before the message is sent?
Like a "Introduce Yourself" and welcome thread, or create like a menu with quick links to where we may want those responding to the message to see?
Yes, those are all good ideas
Yes, those are all good ideas and useful. I think wiki pages or discussions for;
* What can I do now?
* When/Where will DrupalCon Asia-Pacific be? (and other FAQs)
* What is DCAPO? (Our version of the ERDO document)
make the most sense for our 'landing page'. We should also keep the group mission up to date with the status/progress.
Bevan/
FAQ, dates...
Bevan wrote:
> FAQs
I think we can post the announcement now, and progressively build the FAQ later, adding answers one by one, when people ask questions.
You know, after the announcement is published, it will probably take several weeks before most people are informed, because they don't usually read the groups every day.
> When/Where will DrupalCon Asia-Pacific be?
There is a thread about that, but we don't yet know. There are two regions preparing their first DrupalCon: Asia-Pacific and Latin America. Probably one will be held around December of 2010, and the other around December of 2011, but we don't know which one is going to be first.
I'm following the news on the two processes, maybe a little because of my family ties to Asia-Pacific and work ties to Latin America. And I'm also trying to contribute my two cents, one for each project. ;) For example, I'm now helping a bit as interim manager -for some days- of the Latin America group (not the DrupalCon one, but the regional), just for some works before giving the group to a long-term manager.
I would like that both regions advanced as much as possible in the preparations and that, when one of the two will see that the other region is more ready to have success, then will be willing to keep preparing with one more year of national DrupalCamps, before the international DrupalCon.
The next DrupalCon is San Francisco in April 2010, when in my opinion the dates for Asia-Pacific and Latin America should be already clear, and visiting teams from the two regions should be learning from the SF DrupalCon experience.
As said on the other thread, the Latin America Drupal community seems smaller than the Asia-Pacific community but better connected between groups. They had preparation meetings during DrupalCon Paris 2009, and they already have a good candidate: Brazil 2010. So, in that thread, Cary -the Director of Events for the Drupal Association- seems to think Asia-Pacific is not very ready at this moment.
I think Asia-Pacific should start the long due "connecting people" step soon -better right now-, but we shouldn't look at this as a competition. Surely both regions will cooperate as much as possible for the success of the community as a whole because, in open source, the success of one is the success of everyone.
It is by no means clear where
It is by no means clear where the first DrupalCon outside of NA or EU will be or when. I can say with some assurance that neither the decision nor the production of the event will be rushed. The size of the community in and of itself likewise will not be a primary factor in that decision. At his point it is quite unlikely that we will see a third DrupalCon in 2010.
AP and SA each present a distinct set of challenges and opportunities for the Drupal Association, and we want to be certain that the inaugural events in these areas have achievable goals.
I think that juan_g is on the mark in saying that this is not a competition. This group has already started an important community building process. AP covers a huge cosmopolitan area, and it is critical that this group starts to lay the groundwork to eventually include all of it. Your first DrupalCon will need to represent the entire area, regardless of where it is held.
Still a chance for 2010/2011
So, there seems to be now a change of opinion in the Association from "Beginning as early as 2010" (Events Plan), that is to say 2010 and 2011 for the two new regional Drupal Conferences in Asia-Pacific and Latin America, in alternate years. According to what Cary says in a couple of posts, the current slow progress of community building, national DrupalCamps, etc., is likely leading to late 2011 and 2012, that is to say two and three years from now for the two regions.
I think there is still a chance for 2010/2011, if that progress of community building, national DrupalCamps, etc., greatly increases. If the two regions do the homework, cooperate internationally, connect the community, promote DrupalCamps, etc., surely anyone of the two will be ready at least for a moderately sized first DrupalCon about December 2010 as initially planned, so that the other region can held its first one about December 2011.
Therefore, it depends on us. We should start connecting the community now. Let's roll!
. . . . . . . . . .
Time is runnin' out,
Let's roll.
No time for indecision,
We've got to make a move...
Time is runnin' out,
Let's roll.
(Neil Young: "Let's Roll")
Thanks Cary and Juan for your
Thanks Cary and Juan for your input about the longer term picture this is helpful. I think it's important to have a few people with hands in multiple regional DC organiser groups, especially the LA and AP ones.
I've been following the LA group too and am excited about the possibilities and have also noticed the seemingly slow progress and lack of support compared with NA and EU. (I attended the first DrupalCon South America meeting in Drupal DC, and have some contacts there in and out of the Drupal community; I also lived in Buenos Aires for 3 years.)
I also agree with your suggestions/ideas about connecting as many people as possible quickly. Now that we've agreed on the statement we want to make, I'll publish the post and start promoting it around...
Oh, and thanks Juan for creating the Drupal user account and subscribing it to all the groups...
Bevan/
As you will probably have
As you will probably have seen, it's posted to all the gdo groups! Thanks everyone for your help! I also created a post in DCAPO for anyone who reposts or translates to chare thos links and translations. I couldn't update the original post with this link because the Nepal group has a taxonomy vocabulary that is required but has no terms. I've contacted the group owner about this, and will follow up with g.d.o admins if he doesn't respond.
Also, Ryan said he would make me an admin of the group so I can change the name and keep the mission statement up to date.
I didn't include the map because I think it defines our geographical boundaries, which are not yet well defined, and I think it's the wrong time to define them. When I mentioned earlier in this thread that an image to accompany the post would be good, I was thinking something more like an Asia-Pacific Druplicon, though I can't think of any common cultural ideas or icons in order to personalise Druplicon other than the word "Asia-Pacific". It's not too late to add this if we come up with something.
I also posted it to the Drupal Malaysia and Drupal India websites, as well as a a few relevant websites in NZ.
In the process I discovered a google group for Drupal Nepal, and event that appears to have occurred in Kathmandu (Nepal) in July. I added these to Drupal local groups directory, Drupal groups in Asia-Pacific and Drupal events in Asia-Pacific. Which raises the question;
Why do we have 2 lists of almost the same content? (Drupal local groups directory and Drupal groups in Asia-Pacific. This is makes it hard to maintain. Can we either remove the Asia-Pacific section from the former and link to the latter, or simple delete the latter?
Next tasks for the core of the group;
Bevan/
Quick note :
I don't think the translations should be in the post thread, because for example a Japanese user who doesn't or isn't interested in English might not even go into the thread to read further and find their version of the translations or have any idea that it might be there. I think it would be more logical if the post translation was just reposted in that group as a local thread so that it'll show up in their language at the top and that they can have a discussion in their local languages.
This is a suggestion but I think the post thread should be a introduce yourself in English thread so that we can just have discussions and congregate and have fun. Say hi to each other.
Best regards,
Scott
update : I now understand what's been said. the new thread got me confused with regards to post links instructions, and post notes instructions at the announcement thread as well. please disregard the above comments mostly. a bit of a concern is we don't have a welcome section for new comers.
Couldn't we just add the wiki link for source code at the first comment of the announcement thread, and also utilize the announcement thread as a welcome section? and delete the new thread to clarify, as it's kind of confusing?
Scott, The first comment on
Scott,
The first comment on the announcement IS a link to the wiki where I've asked folk to lin to any translations or reposts. I don't understand your last suggestion about welcome section, new thread and deleting a thread. Please clarify.
I think the landing page (http://groups.drupal.org/drupalcon-asiapacific-regional-organising-group) is reasonable. It could be better but serves it's main purpose; showing everyone the progress/discussion to date and status.
Bevan/
Am I making any sense for expressing these views?
I don't know if it's just me but I find these two lines from the two threads somewhat redundant or confusing. It took me a second to figure this out, whereas what might be expected is something straightforward like "Welcome newcomers!, view these links". The first line says to leave a link, and in the second thread it's says to notify of any reposts. Did I misunderstand?
http://groups.drupal.org/node/34658
Please leave comments with link to translations or reposts of the announcement.
http://groups.drupal.org/node/34656#comment-104168
Please note any translations and reposts here.
I just wanted to say that if people are joining the group at a rapid pace, which the preparation should be for it to be expected, I think the first thing I'd like to know is who's responding and say hi to them. I think that is a more friendly approach. Whereas it seems to me that currently the thread offers a place for people to notify of their participation activity rather than enabling us to greet each other.
It's not a big deal, if what is present suffices I'll go with that. I'm a little burnt out from work right now.
I'll rethink this and if I see anything I'll comment again.
Thanks Bevan,
Welcome and FAQ?
If I'm not wrong, I think you are referring to some kind of "Welcome! Please introduce yourself" discussion linking to a "DrupalCon Asia-Pacific FAQ" wiki for new group members, or something similar.
Those and other sections could be linked from the group's mission statement. It seems Bevan is going to receive admin permissions for this kind of tasks (new name of the group, etc.).
FAQ
as previously discussed I think the FAQ could be for later. wiki's with commenting features is definitely something awaited.
I'm just proposing a place for new comers responding to the announcement who will show up to this groups hp first, to post who they are and what they think if they feel like it.
How to accomplish that, I don't know. Besides just creating a simple thread for that purpose at the top.
Fuji, I think the confusion
Fuji, I think the confusion is because of the words I chose. Would this make more sense; "If you repost this announcement or translate, please leave a comment with links to the reposted or translated announcement.", which says the same as what I intended to say, but more clearly.
A "Welcome, introduce yourself" thread would be great. Feel free (anyone) to kick it off.
Bevan/
2 threads similar instructions? what is to be done?
Say if a person posts a translation at their local g.d.o group.
I'm still confused on what is suppose to be done in the 2 threads.
At one thread a link to the post? and at the other notify that the translation was reposted? I'm probably misunderstanding but can you clarify what you intended be done in each of the threads.
Please clarify, if there's any room for confusion I think something needs to be done.
On the different group listings
Bevan wrote:
> Why do we have 2 lists of almost the same content? (Drupal local groups directory and Drupal groups in Asia-Pacific). This makes it hard to maintain. Can we either remove the Asia-Pacific section from the former and link to the latter, or simple delete the latter?
I've added a note to Drupal groups in Asia-Pacific explaining it. There was no listing with all the Asia-Pacific groups together. In fact, the groups collected in this new list come from three separate global listings with different groups: local groups, language groups, and event organising groups (DrupalCamps, DrupalCons...).
For some tasks, a list by group type (event, language...) can be useful. For other tasks, like in this group, a merged list by region is often more convenient. Of course, there is a small disadvantage for those maintaining the lists but, anyhow, new groups appear very slowly, really, so it's not difficult to add a new group to both the list by region and one of the lists by group type. I will check the lists from time to time to synchronize any difference.
I've just added a new Kolkata (Calcutta) group to two lists: by region (Asia-Pacific) and by type (local).
Or probably you are right on keeping it simple...
Thinking again, probably it's better to try to simplify the group listing system. I've started and maintained those lists, but others are beginning to edit them, so probably you are right on keeping it simple...
For example, the DrupalCamp groups and sites -which are increasing- could be moved and listed together with the local groups, where in fact many of the DrupalCamps are organised. The four DrupalCon regional groups can be listed in both places, local groups and regional event groups. On the other hand, the language groups, some of them international or intercontinental (like Spanish), are more difficult to merge, but I will think something.
I'm going to start moving things around...
[Update]
OK, done. The group listings are now merged in Drupal local groups directory: Asia-Pacific.
Announcement image
Bevan wrote:
> might want to create an icon, avatar or logo that is representative of this group. This would add a lot of effect to the announcement (and any future announcements) due to the power of visuals. We don't need it in time for the announcement, but it would be nice. Anyone with a visual creative flair can start this. (...)
> I didn't include the map because I think it defines our geographical boundaries, which are not yet well defined, and I think it's the wrong time to define them. When I mentioned earlier in this thread that an image to accompany the post would be good, I was thinking something more like an Asia-Pacific Druplicon, though I can't think of any common cultural ideas or icons in order to personalise Druplicon other than the word "Asia-Pacific". It's not too late to add this if we come up with something.
In fact, I think the area in that public domain NASA image includes the middle point among the most common definitions of Asia-Pacific (see other images, usually similar to your image, which inspired this new one).
In my opinion, it would be fine at least as the temporary announcement image, which might be later replaced with a logo, etc. For example, the map of the European Union is changing quite often, as new member countries join. ;)
As you suggested, an appropriate image -like this or any other suitable (icon, logo...)- would be very effective to increase the reading rate of the group announcement.
I agree with this totally,
I also agree that the announcement looks better with the map which was my first impression when I saw it with it. That's what makes it look like a regional group announcement IMO. The image definitely differentiates the announcement from any other typical thread.
I can't add a map to the post
I can't add a map to the post because I can't edit it till the issue with Nepal's vocabularies is resolved. I added a map as an avatar to the user account, this has the unfortunates side effect of making all the tags overlay the body of the mesage. I can't remove terms because I can't edit the node. Frustrating. I've left it with that map/avatar for now.
I toyed with the idea of adding Druplicon to the map;
Bevan/
Druplicon Asia-Pacific
That's an interesting idea, Bevan. Some tests:
Since it appears to be a public domain NASA image, probably a copyright notice would not be necessary.
BTW, I've just marked DrupalCamps and other organized events with 1, 2 or 3 small Druplicons
(according to the type of event) in Drupal events in Asia-Pacific.
I think one of the important tasks for this group would be to help promoting national DrupalCamps in several countries, as part of the preparations for the first international DrupalCon in the region.
[Update]
For those who might wish to make tests with Asia-Pacific images, there are some attachments.
DrupalCon Asia-Pacific Logo Design
Our design team says they'd like to take a run at coming up with something for DrupalCon Asia-Pacific. We briefed on this today and they are researching ideas. It's a bit of a bear given the scope of the region, but I am willing to bet they can come up with some cool ideas. If you guys like it, we'll donate it to the effort. (and if you don't like it, no sweat!)
I hope to have something to show you guys in a few days...
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Logo, etc.
Thank you! For possible ideas, you can see past event logos, or t-shirts, for example. A logo and other complementary images (like the maps, etc.) can be useful indeed.
thanks for the resources
Thanks -- I had not found those links. Will pass them on. Any other resources / ideas anyone may have will be most appreciated...
TIA
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
A few more ideas
Collector shirts and conference T-shirts from DC Paris 2009, logo contest from DC Boston 2008, and Asia-Pacific logos from Google and Yahoo.
More logo goodness!
Thanks for all that -- it is helpful. I've passed it on to the team. There's been a lot of great work done in the past...
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Awesome! Note that I think
Awesome! Note that I think we're looking for a logo for the Asia-Pacific community/group – not a logo for a particular event.
Bevan/
Upload graphics?
We've got some logo prototypes done -- can I add graphics into these posts? Help!
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Re: Upload graphics?
If you wish to upload them to this server, wikis accept attachments. They can also be on another server, if you prefer.
To show them -from this or another server- in your post, normal html tags work here. For example:
<img src="http://groups.drupal.org/files/Drupal-Asia-Pacific-675x675.jpg" width=675 height=675 border=0>Some Badge Ideas
We've played around with this a bit and come up with a selection of prototype ideas for you guys to bat around. We worked it up with both the DrupalCon and the DCAPO language. Let us know what you think. If we can arrive at a consensus, great. If not, we'll work up the revisions.
(Pls reference by number for ease of discussion...)
Enjoy!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
It's difficult, maybe
It's difficult, maybe impossible, to finding an image, idea or concept that is representative of the region. Geography is the only common joining theme. Ocean and water contrasted with land is also pretty good, but there are a couple of nations in the region are landlocked.
I like A3 and A4 a lot, mostly because they don't seem to obviously represent any one culture. Having said that, the shape is a Koru, and is a symbol for life for Maori (native New Zealanders). I didn't want to mention this earlier because I wanted to see if non-NZers associated it with this meaning. No one did, or at least no one mentioned that.
I don't think this is an issue (at least not as much as the Chinese dragon) since it's common shape that can have other meanings elsewhere and clearly isn't recognised internationally as a NZ or Maori symbol.
Even in NZ it has been adopted for such a wide range of uses that it isn't always associated with it's traditional Maori meaning. For example; the Air New Zealand logo is a stylised pair of koru. Countless other organizations also use it in their logo or marketing. The NZ Maori party (political) and the NZ Maori flag also use it.
This is totally subjective, but I really like the colors from A4-6, and B3-4. I also really like the font used for "Asia Pacific" though it's not so nice on "DCAPO" – the C and O are too vertical for my taste.
Bevan/
Our thought process
I've stayed off this thread for a while to see how the Group's thinking shaped up in the absence of us tainting it with our assumptions. But, I guess it's time to jump back in here, so here goes...
:: First things first ::
Thanks to all who have tried to help us crack this nut -- it is a bit of a tough one.
:: Second - Our thinking on this design process ::
Due to the incredibly diverse range of places & cultures this group represents, we're saw only three solutions to this problem:
(1) A pure logotype -- that is, no iconography. This option avoids the whole issue of conflict but it is also the option with the least personality (and the 'coldest') - we rejected this in short order;
(2) A very generic icon that is not tied to any one culture. This option was seriously considered, but in the end we rejected it too (more on that in a minute...).
(3) come up with something that is widely recognized as having an "Asian" flavour, even if it meant it may 'favor' one culture more than another.
While Option 2 may sound initially tempting, we felt it just opened up the possibility of endless debate and revisions. We also like the idea of a classically Asian look, as discussed next.
We decided to court controversy and elected for Option 3. We preferred this course because it has personality, character and an association that will be widely recognized as Asian. Since our goal was something that wd be reliably associated in the viewers' minds with Asia, it meant we chose iconography that wd be unambiguous and widely recognizable.
Fault us if you like for choosing the dragon in particular, but before you do, think about it for a sec: The dragon is indeed widely associated with China, but it is also found in many, many other Asian cultures -- why? Because one of the few common factors for the nations in Asia Pacific is the Chinese diaspora. The overseas Chinese and the Chinese traders before them have left an indelible mark on almost every nation in the region. That cultural influence is the closest thing this region has to a common thread. In our minds then, the dragon was a fitting symbol.
Let us also look at this from the outside: If someone not in Asia-Pac looks at this logo, I wd think that we wd want them to make the association with Asia-Pac. Put another way, we need something that speaks to them in a visual language they wd understand. We think these logos do that, as well.
So, take 'em or leave 'em -- it's OK by us either way, but now at least you all know what we were thinking! If we can reach a consensus, we are happy to revise them as well.
--rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
And A4, B3?
The dragons are also nice but, how about the ocean designs? What are your thoughts on those? You included A4 & B3 in the selection, and it seems we are liking them quite a lot.
Whatever you guys like
I didn't mention those in the post immediately above, but obviously we like those too! I simply reviewed the dragon designs as those seemed the most contentious. I'm not backing away from the other designs or endorsing one over the other. Whatever the group likes is fine by us.
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Design Rationale
Hey Ricoflan - thanks for outlining the design rationale - I love hearing about the process used to arrive at an artistic destination!
I think we're all agreed that the dragons are dynamic - but I believe there are strong objections to it being overtly asian. I take your point about the influence of the diaspora and traders, but for others this represents cultural imperialism. I think we should avoid that kind of negative association. I'm sorry to say this, but I strongly reject the use of dragon symbolism for Asia-Pacific DCAPO - but would support it with 3 cheers for a DrupalCon in Asia - where it would be entirely appropriate.
Bevan's point that the swirls in the other design represent the Koru is interesting - I wouldn't have recognised that as distinctly Maori or Pacific - but saw it is as a generic but stylised water theme. In my view, this strengthens the argument for such an approach.
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
guys.. not wanting to be a
guys.. not wanting to be a spoil-sport, but isnt APAC a lot more than China and Japan ?
Suggestions are welcome
(Perhaps a suggestion wd in order, rather than simply a criticism...?) We'd love to know exactly what imagery covers the incredible geographic area this group covers!
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
my apologies for sounding
my apologies for sounding criticising, that was not the intention... i did try to come up with some suggestions but the cultural diversity in the whole region is so immense that a single cultural icon will never suffice, the closest i could come up to a suggestion was oceans and waves. we can also focus on the population density (represent it as community strength).
A sea region
kinshuksunil wrote:
> the closest i could come up to a suggestion was oceans and waves
Yes, maybe dragons are more Chinese, etc. Good for a possible DrupalCon in Taiwan, Shanghai or Hong Kong, for example. Also Taj Mahal (for a DrupalCon Delhi), or the Sydney Opera, and so on, would be local symbols.
However, for Asia-Pacific, A4 and B3 are more international and very nice. After all, it is much a sea and river region. And Druplicon is a drop of water...
Wavey Droplet
Whilst I personally love the Dragon as a graphic, it is dynamic and eyecatching. It is a great representation for Asia, but doesn't really encompass the pacific, Oceania. The dragon probably resonates well with the ethnic chinese who live throughout the region, but may not be as meaningful for native populations. That aside, it's a very very striking design. Ricoflan - please pass on our thanks to your design team, they have done a great job, and deserve high praise.
I agree with kinshuksunil and also with juan_g's suggestion that A4 and B3 seem to be more international and inclusive.
The waves certainly encompass 'Oceania' and much of South East Asia is Islands. Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, Singapore, Borneo, HongKong etc... the Ganges is a natural God in India - so 'Seas and Rivers' could indeed be a natural theme. Australia 'Girt by Sea' New Zealand literally means New Sea Land in Dutch - and of course the tieback to the druplicon is perfect.
We are ethnically, religiously, geographically, climatically, culturally diverse.
It is a huge challenge to encompass all that in a logo.
Water is Life.
Thanks for trying - this is really great work.
Another thought... is perhaps to find symbols that represent a meeting place?
Australian Aboriginal art uses concentric rings to represent a campfire, or a water hole. That could be nice symbolism for a DCAP - given we have so far to travel to meet? Take a look at http://www.aboriginalartonline.com/culture/cimages/iconography.gif
I had a go at putting something together... I'm not a designer - but it might spark other ideas :)
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
SVG source if anyone wants to play with this more.
I created that in Inkscape - so if anyone wants to use it as a starting point to create something new... you can grab the file here:
http://kattekrab.net/files/drupalconAP.svg
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
Australia & Asia-Pacific
The Australian aboriginal tradition of concentric rings for a campfire or meeting place is a really interesting idea for an event in Australia, such as a DrupalCamp or DrupalCon.
I still like the idea of A4 and B3 for Asia-Pacific. As you and kinshuksunil also suggested, ocean is what unites the countries in the region.
sorry just personal taste
I do not like A4 and B3, it makes me dizzy. First impression was I thought it was Indonesian. Any other pattern that comes to mind is (sorry Maori's), it reminds me of a dark green common cloth pattern in Japan or drums of a J Thunder god if the idea is stretched a bit.
Anyways A4, B3 makes me dizzy, so I don't like it. The dragon curling around the drop is fantastic but I don't know which country could adopt it, maybe Taiwan?
Let's brainstorm a bit further with regards to this before we draw any conclusions on the logo as I don't see a design which makes me think this is it! Maybe we'll luck out and a design will pop out.
Australia + China + Indonesia + India + Zen etc.. (this is certainly a tough task), if DCAPO was an imaginary animal it would be an abomination...... the right foot would not know what the left foot is doing. There's only a couple common factors I can think of, that is Drupal and the Ocean, and we're next to each other in a Satellite photo.
I like this because it
I like this because it doesn't obviously try to visually connect with a cultural idea. I also like that the concentric circles can be interpreted in a wide variety of ways. I'd love to see a version of it that uses the green and blue from ricoflan's concepts.
Bevan/
How about
How about putting the Text inside the drop. The text could be in Green or Blue, and maybe we could eliminate the bigger circles leave the one small circle in there, that would be Ying Yang (that'll cover China, Korea and Japan in simplification), but not too obviously. The small circle would mostly look like a glare from a sphere. Maybe play around with blue a bit like add a tiny Maori tatoo, Vegan symbol, Kiwi bird, Chinese flag, Dragon and Kangaroos in thin lines etc.. the kind of stuff that we can all contribute and one has to stare into to find out what's what, a bit of a wild idea here!? I have no idea how that might turn out. If this is the case we can start off with a huge picture and just keep on blending-in graphics. If printed to show it all, it would have be large in high-resolution. A bit of an adventure. Mosaic.
I'm fine with even just the text inside the drop without any other feature.
Scott
another fitting icon might be
another fitting icon might be the silk-route
(sorry for the double-posting)
To do list?
I think it would be very useful for the group to have a to-do list like those Bevan has created in DrupalSouth Wellington Organisers. It can be a wiki page, but in the case of this group an associated discussion on suggested tasks, priorities, etc., would be a necessary complement to the wiki.
There have been many suggestions about things to do... that are yet to be done. A list, or a page with a few lists by topic, would be a great starting point to have things done.
Great idea!
Great idea!
Bevan/
must do
thats definitely a very good idea and we shud do it asap
+1
I'm on it
Done. Please add anything I forgot; http://groups.drupal.org/node/37038
Bevan/
I asked a few people I know
I asked a few people I know if they could translate it to Thai and Japanese and repost in the respective sites. It would be great if folk here could ask their bilingual peers to translate to more AP languages. I know there are folk who have commented that must have associates that speak Indonesian, at least one Chinese language and Japanese – hint hint. ;)
Bevan/
translations
Is Dutch still used used much in Indonesia? I could ask someone to do a Dutch translation.
I'll ask a friend if he'll do a chinese translation for us :)
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
I don't know Dutch nor
I don't know Dutch nor Indonesian, but Dutch doesn't seem to be the primary langauge on drupal.web.id
Bevan/
Logo Suggestion
Can we have a contest? We can solicit the community at large to create the logo to represent us. Then we can pick. What do they win? Well, a free registration to the very first DrupalCon Asia-Pacific??
Different logos for group and event
theWife wrote:
>Can we have a contest?
Usually, there is a logo or design contest near the date of each DrupalCon event. But this case is different, as Bevan said:
"Note that I think we're looking for a logo for the Asia-Pacific community/group – not a logo for a particular event."
A contest for the event is likely for a later date, and with a more localized topic, according to the country, etc. For this Asia-Pacific group, I think we can use one of the already suggested logos, for example A4.