Announcement of trademark application

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kays's picture

I'd like to announce that I applied for trademark registration of Drupal in Japan.
Japan's trademark system is first come first served basis so my application will be accepted in few months (unless somebody else had already applied for it before me).
I have already sent an email to Mr. Dries Buytaert to tell him I did it.

The reason I did it is because I believe Drupal program belongs to the contributers and nobody has a right to block or intervene their business opportunities even in overseas.
Drupal contributers are mainly Americans (Antoine says Europeans), and I believe Japanese should respect their business opportunities in Japan when they use Drupal in Japan.
There has been an argument between drupal.jp and l.d.o Japan, and it was causing anxiety and frustration among Japanese users, and I thought if nobody would stop it, the credibility and reliability of drupal in Japan would be damaged seriously.
I have discussed about it ten months ago in this entry.
http://groups.drupal.org/node/22684
I told the owner of drupal.jp not to use the name "Drupal Japan" any longer after I submitted the application.

I believe I did the right thing, but if anybody has an objection, I'm happy to hear it.

Comments

I think it is better that Mr.Dries owns trademark.

osonoi's picture

like Linus owns Linux trademark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Torvalds#Linux_trademark

Also I think Mr.Dries is not american.

Kays_san,
Sorry if I mis-understanding your opinion.

Since Drupal is an establish

kays's picture

Since Drupal is an established name in the US, he has the right to have the trademark in Japan, too.

For reference

Antoine Lafontaine's picture

For reference:

This is the official Drupal trademark policy: http://www.drupal.com/trademark

If I'm not mistaken it is valid for the United States and the European Union. I also believe that trademarks registered in the United States will also be protected in Canada and Mexico by the free trade agreement, but I am no expert.

Dries is from Belgium and a lot of the contributors to the Drupal project are actually based in Europe.

Dries is from Belgium and a

kays's picture

Dries is from Belgium and a lot of the contributors to the Drupal project are actually based in Europe.

Oh, I didn't know that.
I thought he was an American simply because he registered the trademark only in the US.
Thank you for pointing out.
Then I should say "Drupal contributers are mainly Europeans, and I believe Japanese should respect their business opportunities in Japan when they use Drupal in Japan".

deleted

kays's picture

deleted

Hi kays, I see a lot of knee

cloneofsnake's picture

Hi kays,

I see a lot of knee jerk reactions... and not surprising with a title like "Announcement of trademark application"!

But from what I've read, sounds like you're trying to do a good thing. Can I just clarify for everyone here... are you applying the trademark "Drupal", in Japan, for Dries Buytaert?

If so, bravo!

Nick

Hi cloneofsnake,Thank you

kays's picture

Hi cloneofsnake,
Thank you for trying to understand the real meaning of my action.

Your question is a bit tricky because if I say yes, it may sound I did this to get somethig from him such as exclusive agency contract.
If I say no, then it sounds I did this to monopolize the trade mark.
Neither is true.
Legally speaking, since Drupal is already an established name in many countries, Mr. Dries Buytaert has the right to have the trademark worldwide.
So you don't have to worry a chance I monopolize it.
My intentions behind this action and written in this thread and this thread,
http://groups.drupal.org/node/47828
and they are all.

I understand everybody's concerns, but my concern is different.
My concern is my action may put some extra responsibility and burden on Mr. Buytaert.
The number of Drupal users in Japan is next to nothing compared to that of in the US and Europe at this point of time, which means the troubles in Japan are also next to nothing compared to that of in the US and Europe, and I just don't want to force Mr. Buytaert responsibilities of taking care of our troubles.
We should take care of our troubles ourselves.
I hope you all agree with me.

I am also in support of this action.

Antoine Lafontaine's picture

I am also in support of this action.

Since I feel it was born out of tensions and trouble in the community, I guess it is normal for some people to express concern and be a bit skeptical about the intensions behind such an action.

Hopefully, this will have an overall beneficial effect for the Drupal eco-system in Japan and will also protect our beloved platform from abuse.

Although it can be qualified as a bold move, I look forward to hear about your progress.

I think this is a progressive

filmore.ha's picture

I think this is a progressive action and should have a positive effect on the community.
Looking forward to hearing about your progress!

All reads like a well

yoroy's picture

All reads like a well intended good thing. Bringing this to the attention of legal group.

Thank you all for supporting

kays's picture

Thank you all for supporting messages.

As for my next step, I think I want to have a new Drupal Japan that is not only for the Japanese who want to use Drupal but also for foreign developers who want to do business in Japan.

I think the Drupal trademark

Antoine Lafontaine's picture

I think the Drupal trademark issue and a "new Drupal Japan" site/business/idea are two different discussion, let's try not to mix things up here.

Thank you.

It's not a business

kays's picture

It's not a business idea.
It's like making a govenment, and a government's duty is to build infrastructure, and I thought the new Drupal Japan would need to be infrastructure.

Many Europeans understand English, so language is not a problem for them, but the number of bilingual Japanese are limited, and that's the whole reason of this issue.
I think Drupal needs good working taranslation team and also enough support teams in order to be popular in Japan as I discussed here,
http://groups.drupal.org/node/22684
and I think foreign developpers would be good support team.

The situation has, however, changed.
Mr. Buytaert is going to own the trademark himself, and I won't have control over the name Drupal Japan,
http://groups.drupal.org/node/53583#comment-148738
and I don't know if I can have infrastructure without some power.

Since I'm not getting any

kays's picture

Since I'm not getting any respond, I just keep on talking alone.
Antoine actually brought up an important point.
Business.
Yes, business is the true reason behind the whole mess in Japan though nobody mention it.
Japan is like a plain field.
You need the road, the water supply, the phone line, etc. before you start business.
You cannot start business without infrastructure.
The problem in Japan is the number of Drupalers are so few that they see each other as business opponent and cannot help each other even in the stage of developing infrastructure.

Disagree.

aiwata55's picture

I disagree with you. You are exaggerating by saying

they (Drupalers) see each other as business opponent and cannot help each other even in the stage of developing infrastructure.

That reads as if Drupalers except for you are very competitive, therefore damaging the community. This image is false.

There may be some who, as you said, cannot help each other, regarding everyone else as his/her competitor. But I know there are others who are willing to share his/her time, knowledge, and experience with people to help them understand Drupal.

Perhaps we can just postpone the debate / discussion about the Japanese culture. I think it is not strongly related to the topic of this thread.


Aki Iwata
FOREST & trees

This has nothing to do with

kays's picture

This has nothing to do with the Japanese culture.
Perhaps you are confusing this topic with the topic I'm discussing in another thread.

I believe that my theory is the best way to explain the mess in Japan.
The situation in Japan are written in the threads below
http://drupal.org/node/605032
http://groups.drupal.org/node/41300
http://groups.drupal.org/node/47828

but let me explain in English for those who can't read Japanese.

The owner of drupal.jp used to develop infrastructure alone, which itself is a good thing, but he also tried to keep others away from participation(some say he locked a cvs branch), and when he realized he couldn't keep others away forever, he started to blame them for no reason on the top page of drupal.jp.
As for "the others", they used to ask for participation so badly, but once they were allowed to participate in translation, then they suddenly lost motivation or didn't have motivation from the beginning and the translation stopped.
It's been three month so far, but there is no action.
Some Japanese users started to complain about it, and I took this action of trademark application in a hope that I could change the situation.
Drupal in Japan has been dead for months so far, and has no sign of revive at this moment.

This is the situation.

Please check your facts

Antoine Lafontaine's picture

Please check your facts before posting.

Since the translation server has been opened to everyone, the member base as grown steadily and the number of committed translations has more than doubled.

There is also an almost complete translation of the D7 alpha 2 release and there was even a translation sprint to review and improve that translation...

http://localize.drupal.org/translate/languages/ja
http://localize.drupal.org/node/1053

I've been out and talking with people at a few OSC (Open Source Conference) for about 6+ months now and the situation you are stating here is actually the opposite: Drupal is attracting more and more people, hobbyist, developers and companies.

hmm.. The date of the D7

kays's picture

hmm..

The date of the D7 alpha 2 translation release is 03/04/2010, which is one day after my announcement(this thread).
I correct my saying of "you guys hasn't done anything for three months", and I also show my appreciation for you guys' work, but if you took an action because of my action, then the three months could have been longer without my action.

You said my idea was a business idea when I was only suggesting developing infrastructure.
Please don't be a same person you have been accusing.
Please be open to any people and any constructive ideas.

We are grateful to your move

remi's picture

We are grateful to your move concerning the trademark, Kays, but I think others may feel that you're trying to go too fast, take precipitated action without discussion, and to shove your ideas down people's throats. At least, that's how I perceived the way this thread is going, and frankly, some comments you wrote here may just sound rude.

At this point, the matter directly treated by the subject here has been resolved. Wouldn't it be better to start a new thread concerning the future direction of the Drupal Japan community?

I am explaining the

kays's picture

I am explaining the background situation of my action in English, which I believe is the public interest.
Mr. Buytaert himself or someone he appoints will definitely need this information.
If I was rude, I'm sorry.
It would be much appreciated if you kindly point it out so that I can correct.
I have started this, so I need to finish it in the right way.

P.S.
You say I go too fast, but I actually waited for two months.
http://groups.drupal.org/node/41300#comment-115894
This is a very good post that tells us how a Japanese user was worried over the arguement between drupal.jp and and the others(l.d.o./ja)
He is mainly accusing l.d.o./ja of not really contributing but only disturbing drupal.jp.
You can also see I am the only person who responded to the post.
The reason is because most of the active speakers in this forum are the member of l.d.o./ja
This was written in 2010-01-07 and my action was 2010-03-03.
For two months drupal.jp kept accusing l.d.o./ja of not doing anything, and l.d.o./ja kept ignoring the accusations.
I didn't consult with anybody because I was the only bilingual who was concerned about the issue.
(you need to be bilingual in order to understand all the topics in this forum)
It's easy for you to say "oh you go too fast", but did you think of a chance you feel that way because you can't read Japanese?
And if so, is it my problem?

Did you take hours to do a

remi's picture

Did you take hours to do a background check on me to finally realize that I am not fluent in Japanese and come attack me personally on this thread about this deficiency by editing your comment while still being off-topic? If you wanted examples on how you've been rude, your last edit would be it.

If you want to turn this into a discussion about language barriers, that's fine by me. I'm perfectly "fluent" in Drupal and despite my lack of a perfect Japanese, I will do everything to help Drupal and its community prevail, no matter where I live. In response, based on your lack of respect and inability to accept criticism, I do not believe your English is sufficient to start this thread, even less to continue it. Some commenters here already agreed that the issue relating to this thread has been resolved. If you are as fluently bilingual as you imply you are, you would have stopped writing here already.

Stop pestering us by beating this dead horse and move on.

>I do not believe your

kays's picture

>I do not believe your English is sufficient to start this thread,

Are you saying I shouldn't have announced my action in English?
I did it in Japanese, but I thought I should do so in English too in order to make it public.
Besides, I never said I was fluent.
I just said you need to be bilingual in order to understand the all topics in this forum.

I don't want to get too much

Hiroaki's picture

I don't want to get too much involved into mess so I kept my mouth shut,
but I could translate kays' post to the Japanese thread if it could to reveal his true intention for this action if that could convince you of the doubt for him.
I just wanted to say this and couldn't keep my mouth shut because his posts and actions were not just rude but clearly going out of the line.
(for example, after I wrote a criticism in Japanese thread, I said "Weren't you skipping the proper procedure for this action? I want you to think twice next time." and he told me my post is "libel" and against the law and that he demands apology to him while also banning me from posting comments here for sometime. @_@)

Some of the Japanese people in the thread is criticizing his action (not just "applyin for the trademark" but he made a threat to a community member on behalf of the future Drupal trademark holder in Japan) as terrorizing the open source community itself, including myself in the criticizers.

He is apparently not transferring you enough data to judge his action fairly in this thread.
In the end, since trademark will be under Dries' name, he stopped making comments about taking the law on his own hand. It's a good thing and I'm relieved this is going to a solution.
I just want you guys to know there are more to this underneath than just the few facts on the surface.

But again, I know his next response to my comment here and I don't want any more politics than my life, so I will stay away from here but for the translation of his particular post if requested.
Please tell me that you want the text, I will translate word by word and as directly as I can to avoid confusion.

I'm just sad this great open source platform is now in such mess in the Japanese community.
I feel we needed strong community rules to govern Japanese people from the start.

This issue is closed

xbro's picture

I believe this issue is closed.

What is done is done (who cares what people think about it now because), and the next scheduled step thereby passing the trademark to it's rightful owner will/should be a productive one and end of story. I do not believe discussing this further, since it's final destination has been agreed upon is meaningful at all.

It also seems that the mess in the Japanese community is progressing towards clearing up the mess. And we may be ready for more structure and change which is another topic. Therefore, I suggest people hold onto their comments in this thread other than those that would lead to productivity as it will accomplish nothing.

Best regards,

Scott

p.s. I hear you, but your efforts are meaningless. figure it out. もう問題のないかさぶたが出来たのでほじくる必要はないと思います。

@kays This is absolutely

aiwata55's picture

@kays

This is absolutely off-topic, but I would like to tell you about the almost completion of D7 alpha 2 translation effort.

I noticed the translation was almost completed on March 1st, 2010, thanks to many eager participants. You can find the evidence at http://localize.drupal.org/node/1013#comment-4168, if you are a member of the translation group at l.d.o.

First of all, I don't think one (or a loosely united group like l.d.o./ja) can translate about 4,000 strings over a night. But according to your logic, l.d.o./ja made this miracle. It is unrealistic in my opinion.

So, I hope you can agree that this thread has nothing to do with the completion of the D7 translation effort. Please do not degrade these eager and well-intentioned contributors. They devoted their time and skills to the translation effort without being paid, just for the sake of Japanese users who need Japanese interface.

P.S.
An open source project is made possible mainly by volunteers, so we may lack resources (man power, skill, time, money, etc.). If you are unsatisfied with the progress and/or the direction of such an open source project, please feel free to participate in and make it forward to any direction you want. I really encourage people to participate in any open source project, because it is very inspiring, motivating, full of learning opportunities, and moreover, fun!

P.S.2
As others already suggested here, I suggest we move on. The title of this thread includes "Announcement" and I think you already fulfilled your need in that part. I think the next step of this event will be another announcement by Mr. Buytaert that he successfully take the Drupal trademark in Japan.


Aki Iwata
FOREST & trees

Sorry

kays's picture

I'm editing
Please don't reply

+1 on what aiwata55 is

Antoine Lafontaine's picture

+1 on what aiwata55 is saying.

But this is off topic to this thread. I do not mind talking business and business issues in Japan, but let's try to start another thread outside of this one.

Japanese trademark

Dries's picture

Hello Kays, I should apply for the trademark in Japan. I understand that you applied for the trademark in good faith and with the best intensions for the community, but it is important that I end up owning the Japanese trademark. It is not really option for other people to apply for the Drupal trademark so please drop me an e-mail and we'll work through the details. If you want, you can stop the application process, and then I can apply for it -- or if there is an ability transfer the application, please let me know. I might need your help to drive this home. Thanks!

Hi Dries, OK, please take the

kays's picture

Hi Dries,

OK, please take the trademark.
We'll discuss the details in mail.
I've already sent an email to you so why don't you email me back?

And things progress

Dokuro's picture

It's nice to see some good things come out of this. Keys thanks for taking this step.

Bravo! I applaud your effort

cloneofsnake's picture

Bravo! I applaud your effort and openness! You're setting a good example for the Japanese community to BE OPEN and DO THE RIGHT THING!

Finally!

remi's picture

Drupal is getting back on track in Japan. I'm glad to hear that.

I'm glad this was solved, I

Hiroaki's picture

I'm glad this was solved, I was shocked by a personal owning of (not by original creator) Drupal trademark no matter what the purpose was.
I hope this kind of thing never happens again.

No, I'm shocked to see this

kays's picture

No, I'm shocked to see this post.

The worst scenario in this case is someone takes the trademark and start charging money for using the name Drupal.
It happened with Linux, and it took years and lots of money for Linus Torvalds to have the trademark at last.
I saved Dries from such a trouble, and I think I deserve appreciation not only from Dries but from anybody.
Don't I?

Good work!

reibian's picture

And you're right. You deserve gratitude from many. It might not be the end of it, but certainly a great step forward, especially with a "seal of approval" from the "creator" who is going to be the rightful owner. Congratulations.

I just say thank you to those

kays's picture

I just say thank you to those who stated here that I did the right thing.
It's helping me a lot because some Japanese say I did a wrong thing in this thread.
http://groups.drupal.org/node/47828
They just don't know what happend with Linux and can't imgine the worst scenario.

Thread locked

Crell's picture

The original question here, registration of the "Drupal" trademark in Japan, has been resolved: The application will be transfered to Dries Buytaert and he's handling it from here separately.

The broader question about the Japanese Drupal community is not relevant in this group, and I'd ask that if you want to debate the Japanese translation schedule you do that in the appropriate group. This is not that group.

I've asked for this thread to be locked.

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