OP is a marvelous upgrade to the Drupal stable. But...
Is it ready, yet, for prime time?
Or, is it really a tool for the corporation level Internet user vs those of us who are one person bloggers?
This is the first time for me that I've found a program that hits the spot for what I have in mind for my Internet pressence. It has all the bells and whistles that would make my life of publishing on the net easier. It is also the first program to give me so many problems that are not easy to solve with my level of computer knowledge. And, it seems to break easy. It is loaded with "hidden" methods to do this or that in the program.
Let me be frank. I LOVE this program and its possibilities. Even so, it appears to me that it is not meant for anyone who does not have "massive" software code skills, a team of technicians, and/or lots of time to play before production. In my case, I needed an instant "go to work" site program. Instead, with my skills, I have a program that takes lots of time figuring out too many things just to get a front page format to work.
I know the program is really new and still in its growth stage. But, for those of us who don't have the time to spend hours in html books, drupal instruction books, etc. before being able to produce articles rapidly. The whole purpose of such a program is to have ease of production. That's the why of computers, right?
Such sites as the New Republic, the White House, etc. really make Drupal and OP shine as the program that can do it all. What is left out though, is this. They have people that don't produce the articles that do nothing butwork on the website to keep it up and functioning, including Drupal and OP. People who can immediately, or almost so, fix broken themes, context, views, error messages, etc.
Maybe the question isn't, Is OP Ready for Primetime? Maybe it is this: Is OP ready for the little guy with no tech team, little time, and low funds?
Is OP too complicated for the likes of me? I look at what it can do, and what it takes to do it, and it goes over my head.
To be honest about it, this is the first program I've looked at that does what I want to do on my sites. But, the learning curve is such that it is like a volkswagen owner trying to fly a space shuttle. Can that be solved? Yes, in time. But, that begs the question "how many of us has time in a production atmosphere" to back up and spend hours on end trying to figure out how to do what appears on the surface to be simple"?
For instance, the site I have now has a broken theme. Since I don't have the skills to understand why, then I"m left with these options.
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Delete the contents of the directory, reupload the whole thing, and see if it will work right with the present database.
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Delete the whole thing, database and all, and start from scratch, including recreating all published items to this point.
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Delete it all and reload the old program, Drupal 5.
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Delete it and go to Drupal 6, and redo all the former published material.
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Go to another program and redo everything.
To me, that is an awful lot to work with, considering OP is what I would prefer, if it didn't require so much effort outside the reason for using it. The reason? To publish content quickly, and consistently, without distractions.
I know this may sound negative. It isn't meant to be. For, there must be solutions to maintain the sales point of computers, the Internet, and Drupal and OP. What is the sales point? K.I.S.S. I understand the stupid part, for that is where I fit in this at the moment. But where is the simple?
Is OP ready for the likes of those who are not "geeks"?
Your thots would be appreciated, especially if this post sparks answers we might not have thought of before.
Bob
Comments
OP is not without its flaws.
OP is not without its flaws. It is built on a platform designed first for coders and then for users. Because of this, there is a lack of hand-holding or explanations found elsewhere. One shouldn't forget, Drupal isn't known as "community plumbing" for no reason. Unfortunately, while the plumbing works flawlessly, little thought has been given to the chrome fixtures. Learning Drupal can be a lot like learning to surf. You spend a great deal of time soaking wet and frustrated until you learn how to balance and move with the waves. The question is whether that learning curve is too steep for most people, causing them to prefer dry land.
Drupal is not ready for non-geeks. However, some Drupal profiles are reaching out to those of us who don't have an IT department in our back pocket or an unlimited expense account.
Luckily, there is some movement underway to give that KISS principle to the Drupal community. A number of Joomla designers are creating Drupal versions of Joomla's great graphics-based themes. Also, an increasing number of Drupal modules are including more extensive documentation written for the user, rather than the coder.
In the end, it comes down to personal preference. I like the OP and Drupal mix for publishing and will stick it out, asking questions and more questions.
Coders vs Users?
I used to be in sales. And, the bottom line in sales is numbers. Lots of numbers.
Many millions are made selling items to a mass market at very low cost. Others are made selling high priced items to a limited and select audience.
Now, is Drupal trying to sell a free product to a small number of coders versus a very large number of potential users? That doesn't fit the pattern, it seems to me.
The efficient pattern would seem to be, market a free Drupal to the masses of users, versus the very limited number of coders.
Be that as it may, I personally think Drupal could "walk all over the competition" if real work were begun on making the working of Drupal, and OP, etc. simpler.
Everything else it appears can be coded, why not simplicity?
Oh, by the way, one of the reasons I love OP is the fact that it's theme does not look like the typical dull pastel Drupal themes. But, that's just me I guess.
And, another oh, does anyone know how to fix broken themes?
Bob
There's no free ride
We all wish we could find software that does exactly what WE want without having to learn web coding. Unfortunately, that's often unrealistic. There is no "one way" to do everything. A web software system has to be flexible and powerful enough to allow customization. That power is in direct conflict with simplicity.
I went down this same path, incorrectly thinking that I could just find some easy to use software that would allow me to build a complex, custom site with little investment in time. Three years later, I'm a far better web developer, but it required learning a lot about the web, Drupal, and a host of other Internet topics.
OpenPublish IS ready for primetime, but only if you are, as well. My suggestion? Try to stick with OP's standard way of doing things until you get a more solid grasp of Drupal and related modules. Install a default Drupal site and then start adding some of the modules used by OP, one at a time, so you can learn how the modules work without the interaction and complexity of all the other modules. Start customizing only after you build your Drupal and OP expertise.
Also, read the OpenPublish documentation. It's a great start.
A good suggestion. Also,
A good suggestion. Also, remember, if the basics are solid, don't spend too much time fiddling with the edges - or don't like perfect become the enemy of good-enough.
Primetime or not?
Well, let's see, I've used Drupal for over two years now. Have had virtually no problems with the 5.0 version, and am just now beginnng to work with 6.0. I've had no such problems with WP and others I have worked with. I have been studying the Drupal tutorials, etc.
With that said, OP and all the bells and whistles, how they are "hidden" all over the place, gives me and others problems. Just look at the recent history of "problems" others have had trying to get it running, getting things to post on the frontpage, and formatting the frontpage, not counting the interior pages.
I say coders can simply these things. Maybe it's just "simpler" not to do that for some reason.
OP has all the potential I and others want. And, as someone just wrote, it maybe is still a beta version yet. That I'm not qualified to say.
It does appear to have been rushed for specific deadlines not controlled by the developers. Again, be that as it may I really like the program and expect that in time I will learn it. However, I do not personally feel that there is any excuse for not making things simpler. And/or explaining things in a simple way.
Part of the problem is the vocabulary used to explain a simple need. Most of that vocabulary is not needed, but sounds good because it is computer speak.
To tell someone for example to just change the statement in the php file sound real good. But, it is never clear where the file IS. So, it becomes an unnecessary time consumer to start going through every director and sub-directory to find a file with php in the name.
I know that is an over simplified example, but it's like telling someone to push the red button on the gizmo console. Button, push, console and red are easily understood. But, in this example, where in the ---- is the "gizmo" console. Oh, it's hidden in three sub-directories below the garden patch.
Yes, I know, this is not computer speak, but the end result is what happens when computer speakers try to explain something to a non speaker. And, on top of that, the answer is so simple in the first place, with proper instructions. Like, see that box over there, it's called the gizmo, inside is a panel with a red button on it, could you go over and push it for me? Instead of, "over insert the gizmo insert module and you'll get it working." Nodes anyone?
Bob
No it is not. OP 2.0 is
No it is not. OP 2.0 is should be labeled BETA.
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I am beginning to think that
I am beginning to think that the best idea to use OP in "Prime Time" on a live web site is to install OP elsewhere, learn about what it does and incorporate those parts/pieces one at a time into the working live drupal site. I will not get the instant gratification of having something new, improved, with all the bells and whistles - but I might not crash and burn along the way or spend weeks and weeks trying to figure it out and get it right to migrate it over.
I agree, if there was a staff to help implement it, this is the way to go. But since I am the staff and the leader and all the followers all rolled into one (me, myself and I) with alternate (also paid for) advertising duties that keep me away from the tech stuff, it might be too big of a bite to try and replace my working drupal 6 install all at once with this new shiny site.
Thanks Bob for the post and thoughts.
OP and core
I am using OP 2.0 with Pressflow core, and I have not run into any problems yet...
Has anyone tried using a different core?
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What is Pressflow?
What is Pressflow?
I think at some point the
I think at some point the developers said that they use pressflow with OP.
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what Pressflow is -
http://fourkitchens.com/pressflow-makes-drupal-scale
Pressflow is a distribution of Drupal with integrated performance, scalability, availability, and testing enhancements.
Handbook on Platform Cooperativism, a movement building platforms and tools owned by the people. http://bit.ly/hackitownit
How did you combine Pressflow + Open Publish
Is is just as simple as putting the modules, theme and installation profile in the correct folders and selecting the profile on install?
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It did it again.
Just a few minutes ago the site lost it's theme formatting again. And, I have not been fiddling with formatting changes, etc. Don't really understand this. Never had any problems like this with any other program before. So, there is a big bug in there somewhere that needs fixing.
Hope someone finds the cause of these kinds of things and gets them fixed soon.
Oh well,
Bob
What browser are you using?
What browser are you using? Are you using the performance setting where the css and js is aggregated? What happens in IE is that it won't load all the files and brakes the theme.
Marine job board with Drupal 7 at http://windwardjobs.com
Browser
I'm using the latest version of Firefox.
I've asked my discussion list before if they get the same results and the answer is yes. And, they use different browsers.
As I mentioned none of the other programs I've used have ever done this on my sites. I.e. Drupal 5.x, WP, Yacs, mediawiki, and others when testing them. OP is the only one where the theme breaks, at least in my experience on the net with my own sites, and that is multiple years.
My two OP sites
I don't know if there is any bug, but my two OP sites never gave this problem. Can you see www.stattler.com and www.nature.com.bd sites? They are built on OP 2.0.
sTattler.com
Bugs or no?
I can see both your sites just fine. And, all the other sites using OP that I have found. None of them give me problems in Firefox. Mine does. Take a look at 64prn.com.
I'll put the site back online so you can see what I'm talking about.
Bob
Hmm. I see the broken theme.
Hmm. I see the broken theme. But this is not a big problem, it should be fixed. Its probably a minor error on some part.
Try to do
1) Change to another theme and see how it behaves, use the garland theme
2) then change back to OP default theme
If that doesn't solve the problem, try to overwrite it with a fresh copy of the theme.
Make sure you are optimizing the CSS files.
sTattler.com
Interestingly I can see the
duplicate
sTattler.com
Interestingly I can see the
duplicate
sTattler.com
Interestingly I can see the
duplicate
sTattler.com
Interestingly I can see the
Interestingly I can see the http://64prn.com/article/we-got-it-right-and-first without any error. So, there must be some issues with (possibly) some tpl file. Did you change anything? tpl.php files? or any other file?
sTattler.com
Strange?
Now, that's funny.
Yesterday everything was broken. Now, the articles are ok but not the front page.
The only tpl file I changed was adding one word in place of openpublish to get my tweets on the site. That's it.
Bob
[We suggested WND and others
@occi64 I started reading the information on your website -- the articles and also the view sources. I think the issue at heart here is a conspiracy. Yes, a conspiracy. OpenPublish was really created by socialists and that is why it's free and open for all. The company who created it was also involved with building the whitehouse.gov website for the Obama administration on the Drupal platform. Drupal of course is free -- free, free, free. If we follow this path there will no more corporations in the future and there will be no more jobs that the the corporations create.
When you send your information to the Calais system they are determining the nature of your content. The service is free which leads me to believe that they are socialists too. Yes, you get automatic tags back but also you now have a group of socialists who have a record of you content. Conspiracy? I think so.
They take it a step further too. The socialists are censoring your content by breaking your theme purposefully. The whole system is designed to fail if the content of the articles are determined by Calais to be on the fail list. This is programmed via the Token module http://drupal.org/project/token.
I would suggest to you to delete the whole installation of OpenPublish before this gets too far. Good luck to you and God Bless.
Marine job board with Drupal 7 at http://windwardjobs.com
[We suggested WND and others
@occi64 I started reading the information on your website -- the articles and also the view sources. I think the issue at heart here is a conspiracy. Yes, a conspiracy. OpenPublish was really created by socialists and that is why it's free and open for all. The company who created it was also involved with building the whitehouse.gov website for the Obama administration on the Drupal platform. Drupal of course is free -- free, free, free. If we follow this path there will no more corporations in the future and there will be no more jobs that the the corporations create.
When you send your information to the Calais system they are determining the nature of your content. The service is free which leads me to believe that they are socialists too. Yes, you get automatic tags back but also you now have a group of socialists who have a record of you content. Conspiracy? I think so.
They take it a step further too. The socialists are censoring your content by breaking your theme purposefully. The whole system is designed to fail if the content of the articles are determined by Calais to be on the fail list. This is programmed via the Token module http://drupal.org/project/token.
I would suggest to you to delete the whole installation of OpenPublish before this gets too far. Good luck to you and God Bless.
Marine job board with Drupal 7 at http://windwardjobs.com
Conspiracy?
Thanks, but I don't believe in conspiracies. Besides, if they are conspiracies, and they are "secret" then how do we know about them?
No, the problem is somewhere in the details of the program.
Who spoke of socialists on the site? And, the content on the site is not the question for here. The question is, how to fix a "simple" format problem.
Bob
the view sources
You did make one interesting observation. I'm going to have to review the videos and pictures etc. pulled up by the "autofinders" used in OP. I'm finding most of them don't apply at all to the article topics. But, that is another subject that has nothing to do with keeping the theme working.
By the way, I deleted the whole theme directory and reloaded it. Now it works again.
Bob
hahaha
Priceless adamsohn!
Bob, please tell us you just ignored him please.
LOL
http://satyamediagroup.com
Priceless or valueless?
Ignored? Did someone say something?
I can hear Rodney in his grave now: "Take my Drupal, please!"
Bob
Whats all this talk about PHP?
Reading this post, I see where the OP may have been coming from.
All the same, I believe it is wrong for people to complain just because they refuse to read documentation on basic drupal use.
As far as content is concerned for example, creating an article, blog, video or audio in OP is nearly straightforward.
Click create, type (copy/paste) your article, add an image and a thumbnail (if needed) and click save.
I fail to see where "knowing php" or having coding skills comes up at all!
I would love for the poster to show where he had to use php to achieve his goals of post/article creation.
In the sense of how people use wordpress or Joomla, I see no way that drupal lacks.
In joomla and wordpress for example, most end users do not twiddle with the frontpage layout. They use the themes as is. Discovering that you can change the layout in Drupal to whatever one feels like is where all the complaining begins.
And then OP is different. Because it uses contexts for frontpage instead of regular 'admin/build/block', all hell breaks loose.
Original poster, simply learn to use contexts. It should take you just a few edits, disables, enables and you will suddenly realise the power you have been given.
Dig in instead of whinning.
Otherwise, use the theme as setup already for you. As you would in the wordpress and Joomla whinners seem to love. You will then realise, still, that you are more productive on Drupal and its varied instal profiles.
I'm just saying!
http://satyamediagroup.com