Posted by barwonhack on January 20, 2011 at 12:14am
HaHa ... Don't know if I should laugh or cry.
On that topic though, I am noticing many advertised Drupal roles ask for a lot more than just Drupal skills.
The desire to secure one candidate who has everything seems to me to be a bit unreasonable and perhaps works against the best interests of the project and client. For example, one could be a gun theme developer with great jQuery skills, but be excluded because you don't have, say, advanced PHP skills.
I'm interested in the views of the Australian community on this topic.
Given that so much can be achieved with Drupal and modules (provided you have the requisite familiarity with the plethora of modules), is it necessary to be a master of all related skills?
Do we need to actively educate our potential clients and their HR representatives about the various aspects of Drupal development.
What categories would best define these various skill sets?
Content / Community / Store Administrator (CMS use, editorial, content SEO and strategy, analytics monitoring, business reporting, image manipulation, style adherence, forum moderation, knowledge of publishing and libel law and best practices)
SEO (Technical SEO implementor - overlaps with theme developer & Content Admin - Modules, IA, Semantic XHTML, SEO tracking and reporting)
eCommerce Developer (SSL, UberCart or eCommerce)
Drupal Developer (Install and develop using native functionality, select and configure modules, some basic PHP skills)
Advanced PHP developer (Custom application development using Drupal as a foundation)
Of course it's rarely necessary to have all these skills. Employers and recruiters do have trouble identifying the key strengths they are looking for in a candidate, and typically ask for things that won't be necessary because, little do they know, existing modules will do quite nicely. On the other extreme, you can be an awesome Drupal specialist and be offered entrance level PHP jobs (because Drupal is just PHP isn't it?) :P
The outcome is invariably either over-capitalization or under-capitalization in talent.
My solution to this problem is to recommend that clients get a preliminary analysis of their project from a Drupal consulting house or well-known consultant (pay good money for a quality review). The report should include a road-map for the project, risks and unknowns, and information about the type of developer/shop that is needed to complete it. This information can then be provided to HR and can save a boat-load of money.
I generally think of Drupal developers as having one of three main roles:
Implementer, i.e. someone who knows all the modules and can install, configure, and build most of a Drupal site.
Themer, who can create a custom theme or sub-theme (mostly HTML, CSS, some JS and PHP).
Module developer, i.e. someone who can create custom modules (PHP, JS, SQL).
I train these categories of people differently, and I wouldn't expect a recruit to be proficient at more than one, although, to be fair, many of us are.
Outside of these, there are the other related roles you've specified:
Systems admin (Aegir, Drush, Varnish, APC, memcache, Linux, etc.)
Content manager; this is usually the client, however, there is sometimes overlap with the implementer role if they also maintain menus, blocks, etc.
I would politely inform the advertiser that I was looking for a more 'hands-on' role, and that I could refer some juniors/interns to them as it seems to be a part-time position.
Posted by Dale Baldwin on January 20, 2011 at 12:29am
The amount of work I turn down because of job adds like that are work requests that come through is quite high. If its a project I'm interested in though I often send a quote in with alternatives to what the client is looking at.
A lot of the time I find a client goes and finds some random jquery image slider or something like that which with a bit of css can be replicated using existing drupal modules. I have a feeling half the time these adds are posted up by graphic designers turned web designers who did a course on SEO and are just throwing around buzz words.
The other thing I am finding more and more is that there is a real need to turn around the project development path. From my experience what seems to happen is a client sits down with a marketing/design firm, they put together the PSD designs and then hand it over to me. I then spend 2 weeks putting it together having to redesign half the UI because its either not functional or not practical. I've told one of the firms I work with now to talk to me first before they even think about loading up photoshop.
Posted by barwonhack on January 20, 2011 at 12:40am
Business goals, resourcing and content development should drive the project. UI should come last.
Problem is that most projects commence with design firms and they are generally naive when it comes to SEO, CMS, Online Marketing. Project management is usually made up of a budget, a deadline and a stack of photoshop files.
Handover occurs when the designer is "finished".
This situation is far from ideal and Australia suffers when HR, Marketing and Design own these projects. Equally, IT departments in general not are not great web developers.
Funny coz it's true...kinda...though I like rock climbing which will explain why I found it more entertaining than frustrating :)
Think there's another danger in trying to niche people too much. By the time anyone has good Drupal-fu they can probably do at least a little bit of all of smilne's job descriptions. The pros will be able to do everything competently and the rest of us (or maybe just me) will be pretty good at a couple of areas and know enough to know where to start looking for help/answers when they encounter problems with the rest.
It would help a lot on the job/employee seeking front if people actually knew what they were looking for though. It's not just in web development, a friend of mine applied for a programming job only to find that what they actually wanted was a full blown software engineer. The employers didn't really know any better, especially with the proliferation of programmers who put that their software engineers on their resume because they either don't know the difference themselves or they think it looks better and will help them get more interviews.
That's Brilliant i love it, im sure most of you would have seen this already... http://drupal.org/node/77487 I came across it when first started using Drupal and it would sit on my wall above my computer and remind me of just where i was going.... lol
Comments
Have we all gotten past the
Have we all gotten past the pile of dead bodies yet?
CMS learning curves
HaHa ... Don't know if I should laugh or cry.
On that topic though, I am noticing many advertised Drupal roles ask for a lot more than just Drupal skills.
The desire to secure one candidate who has everything seems to me to be a bit unreasonable and perhaps works against the best interests of the project and client. For example, one could be a gun theme developer with great jQuery skills, but be excluded because you don't have, say, advanced PHP skills.
I'm interested in the views of the Australian community on this topic.
Given that so much can be achieved with Drupal and modules (provided you have the requisite familiarity with the plethora of modules), is it necessary to be a master of all related skills?
Do we need to actively educate our potential clients and their HR representatives about the various aspects of Drupal development.
What categories would best define these various skill sets?
To start, does this list seem appropriate:
Interested in your thoughts ...
Yeah this happens a lot. Of
Yeah this happens a lot.
Of course it's rarely necessary to have all these skills. Employers and recruiters do have trouble identifying the key strengths they are looking for in a candidate, and typically ask for things that won't be necessary because, little do they know, existing modules will do quite nicely. On the other extreme, you can be an awesome Drupal specialist and be offered entrance level PHP jobs (because Drupal is just PHP isn't it?) :P
The outcome is invariably either over-capitalization or under-capitalization in talent.
My solution to this problem is to recommend that clients get a preliminary analysis of their project from a Drupal consulting house or well-known consultant (pay good money for a quality review). The report should include a road-map for the project, risks and unknowns, and information about the type of developer/shop that is needed to complete it. This information can then be provided to HR and can save a boat-load of money.
Drupal roles
I generally think of Drupal developers as having one of three main roles:
I train these categories of people differently, and I wouldn't expect a recruit to be proficient at more than one, although, to be fair, many of us are.
Outside of these, there are the other related roles you've specified:
You haz skillz
Hi smilne23,
I would politely inform the advertiser that I was looking for a more 'hands-on' role, and that I could refer some juniors/interns to them as it seems to be a part-time position.
Colin
Colin Paul Watson
Sooo...
Dries is driving the bobcat then?
The view is good, too afraid
The view is good, too afraid to climb down in case I have to do it over again.
The amount of work I turn
The amount of work I turn down because of job adds like that are work requests that come through is quite high. If its a project I'm interested in though I often send a quote in with alternatives to what the client is looking at.
A lot of the time I find a client goes and finds some random jquery image slider or something like that which with a bit of css can be replicated using existing drupal modules. I have a feeling half the time these adds are posted up by graphic designers turned web designers who did a course on SEO and are just throwing around buzz words.
The other thing I am finding more and more is that there is a real need to turn around the project development path. From my experience what seems to happen is a client sits down with a marketing/design firm, they put together the PSD designs and then hand it over to me. I then spend 2 weeks putting it together having to redesign half the UI because its either not functional or not practical. I've told one of the firms I work with now to talk to me first before they even think about loading up photoshop.
Photoshop driven design should be dead by now
Business goals, resourcing and content development should drive the project. UI should come last.
Problem is that most projects commence with design firms and they are generally naive when it comes to SEO, CMS, Online Marketing. Project management is usually made up of a budget, a deadline and a stack of photoshop files.
Handover occurs when the designer is "finished".
This situation is far from ideal and Australia suffers when HR, Marketing and Design own these projects. Equally, IT departments in general not are not great web developers.
-=[o]=-
Bahahahahahhaha XD
Funny coz it's true...kinda...though I like rock climbing which will explain why I found it more entertaining than frustrating :)
Think there's another danger in trying to niche people too much. By the time anyone has good Drupal-fu they can probably do at least a little bit of all of smilne's job descriptions. The pros will be able to do everything competently and the rest of us (or maybe just me) will be pretty good at a couple of areas and know enough to know where to start looking for help/answers when they encounter problems with the rest.
It would help a lot on the job/employee seeking front if people actually knew what they were looking for though. It's not just in web development, a friend of mine applied for a programming job only to find that what they actually wanted was a full blown software engineer. The employers didn't really know any better, especially with the proliferation of programmers who put that their software engineers on their resume because they either don't know the difference themselves or they think it looks better and will help them get more interviews.
Brilliant have you seen the Drupal Road Map to Hell?
That's Brilliant i love it, im sure most of you would have seen this already... http://drupal.org/node/77487 I came across it when first started using Drupal and it would sit on my wall above my computer and remind me of just where i was going.... lol
Frickin' awesome!
Yep.
A more real curve
hi i create a more real learning curve :
http://drupalmexico.com/blog/learning-curve-drupal
i hope this one help and create a less terrible vision about drupal :)
Ivan Mejia
www.medioyforma.info
www.drupalmexico.com