On What should be the next step for this group?, the Director of Events for the Drupal Association wrote:
> First you need to identify your market and all of the interested parties therein.
Then you need to look at the events that have been held and evaluate them.
Then you should have some more events.
After a few rounds of this, there should be something to talk about.
I think it would be important to open a discussion about Cary's suggestion on the group's next steps. That is to say, experience with medium-sized events like national DrupalCamps, as the essential road to the international DrupalCon. Members of this group who are DrupalCamp organisers -like Bevan and Ryan- have been too humble to open a thread like this, but let's start it anyway... ;)
In Drupal events in Asia-Pacific (see it for a more complete list), among the several types of Drupal events listed, DrupalCamps are the following (marked with two Druplicons):
DrupalCamps in 2008
Drupal Camp Shanghai with BarCamp (Shanghai, China, 2008-05-17/18) - Over 60 people attended over 12 sessions and discussions. See also Drupal Camp Shanghai is over, Stay Involved!- Drupalcamp Bangkok (Bangkok, Thailand, 2008-05-24) - The first-ever DrupalCamp in Thailand. About 80 attendees. See also the announcement, and DrupalCamp Bangkok Roundup (photos, blogs, slide).
- Drupal Camp India 2008 (Gandhinagar, Gujarat, India, 2008-08-08/10) - The 1st ever DrupalCamp in India. Over 300 attendees were expected. It was held in Gandhinagar, near Ahmedabad. See also First ever DrupalCamp in India, and Drupal Camp India.
- DrupalCamp Australia 2008 (Sydney, Australia, 2008-10-18) - Inspired by the BarCamp events, DrupalCamp is a small (to medium sized) gathering of like minded people to discuss and learn about Drupal, share ideas, get involved in the community, connect and network with people - the people you see so often online. See also DrupalCamp Australia 2008 Presentations, the 11+4 photos from DavePoon and AliaK, and the 13 slideshows.
- DrupalSouth: The Kiwi Drupal Event for 2008 (Christchurch, New Zealand, 2008-11-01/02) - The first nation-wide Drupal event and the first ever Drupal camp in NZ. 48 attendees. See also DrupalSouth.
DrupalCamps in 2009
- Drupalcamp India 2009 (Pune, Maharashtra, India, 2009-01-31) - The second DrupalCamp in India. 362 campers registered. See also Drupal Camp Pune, followup, slides, and videos.
- DrupalCamp Melbourne 2009 (Melbourne, Australia, 2009-05-16) - Keynote: Drupal at Lonely Planet. Presentations: Drupal at Victoria University; An approach to Drupal Replication. The morning will be devoted to group sessions ending in the keynote session. The afternoon will be broken into two rooms where we'll have focus groups and lightning talks. More details, at Em Space.
- Drupal NanoCon Taiwan (Taipei, Taiwan, 2009-09-30; and Kaohsiung, Taiwan, 2009-10-17) - A small/tiny/nano Drupal Conference. Besides the local Drupalers will talk about the case study in Taiwan, we also invite the great Zen theme maintainer -John Albin- to share the inner power of Zen.
Upcoming DrupalCamps
- DrupalSouth Wellington 2010 (Wellington, New Zealand, 2010-01-23/24) - It will feature excellent overseas and home-grown speakers and attendees, such as Angela Byron (webchick), Addison Berry (add1sun), Emma Jane Hogbin (emmajane), Dan (dman). About 100 attendees expected. See also DrupalSouth Wellington Organisers, and announcement.
- DrupalCamp Australia 2010 (Australia, February or March 2010) - A full scale national event (2 days, 200+ ppl). Location to be determined with an eye to move it around over time.
Regular DrupalCamps
- Australia
- Australia Drupal group - There have been many events in Australia since 2006, including DrupalCamps, and monthly meetups in several cities.
- India
- New Zealand
- Taiwan
- Drupal Taiwan 正體中文支援站 - They organise meetups, and small and medium events, including a DrupalCamp (Drupal NanoCon). Most info is in the Drupal Taiwan website, using Traditional Chinese characters. See also some info in English in the Taiwan group.
See also
- Drupal events in Asia-Pacific - Wiki with a more complete list, including other types of events: sprints, workshops, etc.
- Drupal event resources
- Drupal Event Organization
- Drupal Camp Organizing Guide
- Organizing Drupal Camps
And a similar effort in Latin America: GVS Sponsors Drupalcamps in Central America, South America - The Road to Drupalcon South America
What's your opinion?
For example, I think Cary is right in suggesting that, before a large event like the international Drupal Conference in Asia-Pacific, it would be important to have some more experience with medium events like national DrupalCamps in Asia-Pacific countries.
What do you think? What countries would be interested in organising a local DrupalCamp? Should this group help them as suggested?
Comments
Specific goal?
I'm curious what Gary and others are looking for specifically when suggesting we need more experience running larger events. We (in australia at least) have experience running several small-medium Drupal events. I also have experience organising larger events including community driven ones.
When these suggestions are made, it feels like their is concern over our ability to execute the logistics of a large event and thus more events would be gaining more experience with logistics, but I think and probably others, that this is just delaying and unnecessary. If this is supposed to be testing the market or building community, that may be a fair goal but I think that needs to be stated and clear. Perhaps there are other issues.
So, what is the specific goal or information we are trying to gain by running more events before running a larger event (DrupalCon)?
--Ryan
Ryan Cross
Drupal Development Services
ProjectPier project management and collaboration software
I will agree with rcross
I will agree with rcross here, what is specifically required when it comes to "more experience running larger events". We are organizing National level events for past 7 years which see a turnout of about 600 people ever year. Also, how do you measure the capabilities... We will be happy to invite you guys to other events so that you can see yourself the capabilities and ability to run events :)
regards
Vivek
There's also plans for an
There's also plans for an upcoming DrupalCamp in Brisbane next year, which was pushed back from late this year. Haven't heard much about it but it'll be scheduled away from DrupalCamp Australia.
Drupal sprint India 2009 is missing from the list of events
Hello,
I do not see recently concluded Drupal sprint India 2009 (October 30 - 31, 2009 ) in the list of Drupal events. The event website is http://drupalindia2009.plug.org.in/ and Addison Berry was here for the sprint. We are in process of updating photographs and other material.
We are planning for another drupal event (probably a camp) during February which we plan to co-host with India's lbiggest community driven FOSS event Gnunify ( http://www.gnunify.in ). Once the dates for main conference are finalized, we will announce the event too.
regards
Vivek
DrupalCamps in this list; other events in a more complete list
Drupal Sprint India is in the 2009 section of Drupal events in Asia-Pacific, which is a more complete list, with more types of events. I've listed just DrupalCamps in the short list of this thread, because they are medium sized events a little similar to DrupalCons -large events including a combination of presentations, workshops, sprints, etc.-. Sprints are also important, and they are in the longer list.
On that page, there is also a section on open source events. I've mentioned event organisers on another thread, and some Drupalers have experience in organising open source events. Probably you were referring to something like this or other similar events when saying "we are organizing national level events for past 7 years". I agree this kind of experience -not only in Drupal events- is also very important and should be taken into account.
On what Ryan says, I think probably Cary was referring not to a few countries -Australia, India...- where experience running medium/large events seems mainly concentrated, but to the Asia-Pacific community as a whole. Because of this he has also mentioned community building through more events in the region, etc.
Naturally, we are just exchanging opinions, and maybe we were underestimating the potential in Asia-Pacific, a large Drupal community indeed.
I think many people
I think many people under-estimate the potential in AP. I'm pretty certain a very-well executed DrupalCon in the next 2 years could potentially be as large and major event as DrupalCon San Francisco will be (3000 expected attendees). The language cultural (and religious to a lesser extent) differences make it very difficult to fully grasp this, which is why we are having these discussions which are a great way to break down these barriers.
These differences would also make such a large DrupalCon extremely difficult to organize and manage – but possible. I don't think we should aim for such a large DrupalCon for the initial DCAP, but is definately something we should keep in mind.
Bevan/
It would be great to include
It would be great to include the numbers of attendees in this list above (and any list of events in general). DrupalSouth Christchurch was 48. DrupalSouth Wellington will probably be 100. DrupalCamp Bangkok was about 80.
Bevan/
Those and other numbers added
I've just added those and other numbers -from DrupalCamps in India- to the first post of this thread and to the Drupal events in Asia-Pacific wiki, were people can add more data.
I've also added data sent by Ryan on Drupal Day Sydney 2009 to the wiki, which is a more complete list than the short one in this thread where only DrupalCamps are listed (like the DrupalCamps in Australia).
I think DCAPO shold do what
I think DCAPO shold do what it can to help national Drupal events, conferences and camps happen. Anything that helps Drupal communities in Asia-Pacific, grow, connect, meet and share is good for DCAPO. Unfortunately I don't think there is much DCAPO can offer at this time other than the support, advise, discussion and shared experiences.
Bevan/
DCAPO - cross promotion for events
Currently, the biggest support DCAPO can give to national camps and meetups is Cross Promotion.
I'm beginning to think we should set up some kind of formal "DCAP events" communication channels... a twitter bot perhaps?
Somewhere to post announcements / press releases / calls for participation...
People are sometimes travelling for other reasons, and if there was a drupalcamp in a city you were travelling to for another reason, that might be an opportunity to increase inter-region connections...
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
Agree - Need better alerts
I 100% agree that we need a better alerts system. The format of the current discussion is very time-consuming (having to track down things and make sense of the way things are threaded and conversations mixed up). Things are very disjointed and a bit hard to follow. I'd be all in favor of some sort of aggregator at the very least.
best,
rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
Done
I've setup @drupalnews_ap for use as an aggregator/notification system. I've also registered @drupalconAP for use when we want to start pushing out drupalcon specific announcements.
Please let me know of any particular threads/feeds you'd like ot see posted there.
--Ryan
Ryan Cross
Drupal Development Services
ProjectPier project management and collaboration software
Cross-promotion is very
Ah, thanks Donna for reminding us of this! Cross-promotion is very important. I know that at DrupalSouth several of us will be talking about DCAP and promoting involvement and that many will be asking too. We may even run a short session just on DCAP. Possibly the best way to cross-promote them is to post major announcements (not minor ones) to this group, and promote events of neighbouring regions in your area. E.g. promoting Taiwan events in Thailand, Nepal events in India, Australia events in NZ and vice verca.
Also, I wasn't aware that many people find GDO difficult to navigate and read. Thanks for sharing this. Do you use the "Recent" tab.
Bevan/
GDO tricky to navigate
I wasn't using the Recent Tab.
Thanks for the tip, that is helpful, but doesn't really untangle the challenge of following all the thread sequences we have going.
I'll persevere, but I know I'm wasting energy just trying to keep track of what a post refers to as I read them first when they hit my inbox. Once I get to the website there are some visual threading clues, but even then, new posts on the same topic don't always indent as related.
It just feels... kinda clunky. Sorry! Might be just me.
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
I don't read in email because
I don't read in email because the threading is lost (which is critical) it is incomplete and doesn't include html link and emphasis etc tags. Actually I have email notifcations turned off for all but a few critical groups.
I am better understanding the issues with gdo though – thanks for this.
Bevan/
I think DrupalCamps are
I think national level DrupalCamps are important for bonding communities and motivating and inspiring Drupallers and user groups to help DCAP happen. This is more important than the organizing experience that the individuals and/or communities gain, in my opinion.
Bevan/
Agreed, but stated goal?
I agree with what everyone is saying, and is why i bring us back to my question. Can we define what the specific goals we are aiming for by running more events? I am not suggesting that we shouldn't continue to run events, but I'm looking for the pathway and milestones to coordinating a DrupalCon.
My impression is that there is some intangible "key" that Cary or others are looking for before backing a DCAP. I'm trying to put some clarity around what that is. This should enable us to develop a strategy to deliver this. In my experience once the goal is clear, the path is easy to figure out.
Examples of what might be a clear goals/milestones:
Large event with 250+ people
Event with participants from 3+ countries in the Asia-Pacific Reason
Event coordinated through an external events management co.
Demonstrable evidence of international collaboration among organizers
Pledges of attendance to a DCAP from 250+ ppl
Market research data regarding Asia Pacific Drupal community from 4+ countries and 150+ participants
Pledges from sponsors for $30k+
Multi-Day event for X ppl
Pledges of attendance from X "vip" outside of AP region
These not suggestions per say (particularly the numbers), and I would like to see more like 1 or 2 defined goals rather than lots of them.
--Ryan
Ryan Cross
Drupal Development Services
ProjectPier project management and collaboration software
Just more DrupalCamps and other events: keep on having them
I'm not sure what the Association thinks, but my impression is that -if I'm not wrong- they feel more confident when they see a track record, that is to say a continuous interest in having more and more events, and more community building.
Normal national DrupalCamps are fine. They can have maybe 50 attendees in less populated countries -like in the first DrupalSouth in New Zealand-, or even up to over 350 attendees in large countries -like in the second DrupalCamp in India-.
International DrupalCons are different; for example in 2009, Washington DC almost 1300 attendees, Paris over 850. The Drupal community in Asia-Pacific seems to be about 60% the size of the European Drupal community, which is about 70-80% of the North American. (And, according to other more recent data, the Latin American Drupal community seems to be about 30% the size of the Asia-Pacific community). So, a good goal would be 500-600 attendees to the first DrupalCon in Asia-Pacific (and perhaps 200, not much less than the first DrupalCons in 2005, to the first one in Latin America).
However, in my opinion, the main point is not about this kind of details. It is whether at least the countries that have already held DrupalCamps (Australia, China, India, New Zealand, Taiwan, Thailand), and hopefully more countries, will be interested and will keep on having more DrupalCamps and other events, now and in 2010. It's not too difficult when there are sponsors or universities, etc., willing to cooperate with open source projects.
In the process, there is community building, and a great basis to have an international conference earlier than expected.
Drupam Camps and etc. in Taiwan...
Can't really say what other countries had done. However, we had our first Open Source Contest in Taiwan (which was modeled after South by Southwest). CharlesC was the organizer and three Open Source groups were here, Drupal (people from Taiwan and Australia), Joomla!, and Plone (people came from Japan). Drupal won the best satisfaction award. Also, the Drupal community here has been gaining quite a bit of momentum with the community coming together having regular meetups. For us, I am sure that we will be having regular DrupalCamps and other events.
Taiwan events
Thank you, Jenny. On Drupal events in Asia-Pacific, I had included only one Taiwan event, the Drupal NanoCon (DrupalCamp), because it was the only event published in the Taiwan group here. After what you wrote, I've noticed -using machine translation from Google and Yahoo- there is indeed a lot of Drupal activity in Taiwan, but published in Chinese on their own website.
About a possible DrupalCon in Taiwan, even when they mention that language is the problem, they seem truly interested. See DrupalCon Taiwan 201x?
By the way, thanks to your husband John for his great work maintaining and improving Zen, the #1 starting theme for Drupal. I'm going to probably use Zen nineSixty, a Zen subtheme (basically, Zen with grids).
I've just updated the events wiki, adding the following Taiwan events, and a few resources. I've also updated the DrupalCamp list on this page.
I hope we will add more upcoming events from several countries (India, Australia...) when they are announced, or maybe before.
2006:
Upcoming event:
Regular events:
Open source event:
Related resources:
Drupal Community in Taiwan
We have talked to the Open Source Communities here in Taiwan to assist with getting Drupal's name out there. We have been gathering quite a bit of momentum in creating a good size community (although it can be bigger, of course). With the amount of high tech resources in Taiwan, it is not too difficult to put together a good DrupalCon with 500 attendees at a fairly affordable pricing. I believe charging $300US/person for admission is too steep for most Asian countries since the cost of living and what people make are considerably lower than the western worlds counterparts. With me fluent in English, it might make things easier.
Dear juan_g, Thanks for your
Dear juan_g,
Thanks for your help about Taiwan's Drupal events. Here are some update:
2007 meetup - http://drupaltaiwan.org/forum/20070102/742 (photo - http://drupaltaiwan.org/forum/20070102/742#comment-2559 )
2008 meetup - http://drupaltaiwan.org/forum/20081224/2911
2009/03 party - http://drupaltaiwan.org/node/3173
2009/10 nanoCon video - http://drupaltaiwan.org/node/3782
Charles, Did the Chinese
Charles, Did the Chinese translation of the DCAPO announcement get posted to http://drupaltaiwan.org?
Bevan/
Possible goal: 600 attendees to the first DrupalCon
There are some updated numbers today, similar to the previous data. Now, it seems the Drupal community in Asia-Pacific is about 65% the size of the European community, and half the size of the North American. So, a reasonable goal would be around 600 attendees to the first DrupalCon in Asia-Pacific.
Bust - Break Even - or Brilliant Success?
Would it be worth looking at minimum / maximum numbers?
For an event to be financially viable, I tend to think about 3 delegate numbers.
Bearable loss.
How much investment can the drupal association - sponsors - organisers invest to guarantee an event happens.
This can be any figure from $0 - and it determines how many registrations you need by a certain date to proceed with the conference to cover the basic fixed costs / make an acceptable loss.
Break even.
How many registrations do you need to break even, cover the fixed and variable costs, and create a very small operating surplus to use for future deposits. Registrations above that number fill the kitty for future events.
Wild success.
An upper limit - this makes it much easier to pick a venue. Keeping the upper limit to around 500 keeps the options open for venues. Going to 1000 or 3000 requires a whole different approach.
Venues that can accommodate 500+ people typically have better facilities, but also cost more.
[Note - 500 here is arbitrary... it could be 750, but I know from my own experience that venues for conferences of up to 500 people are easier to find than for over 500]
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
My initial thoughts/opinion
My initial thoughts/opinion on this based on our research to date and discussions with various people is that for the first DCAP, we probably want to aim to set these numbers at somewhere in the vicinity of;
Note thought that these numbers would depend largely on the venue, location and the organising team, all of which are undetermined. I would expect these numbers to approxomitely double every DCAP (every two years), though we can't really consider that far ahead.
What do others in the group think would be reasonable targets for these figures for the first DCAP? For subsequent DCAPs?
Bevan/
Entry fees
In South Asia, entry fees is going to play an important role in the number of delegates. We cant price Drupal con at $300 as this will be out of pocket for many enthusiasts. This region needs to strike a balance between facilities at the venue and entry fees.
I will like to keep a conservative number of 300 attendees for first DCAP (for South Asia), specially in country like India where travel from one corner to another is longer than some Foreign destinations, playing a spoil sport in attendance from various regions within country.
Entry Fees
Yes, entry fees and budget are going to be a real challenge.
Compare the rego costs for linux.conf.au and foss.in
The location will be a big factor. Conference 'packages' at hotels start at around AUS$50 per day - so these things can be done much cheaper in many Asian destinations than in Australia. Universities and schools are cheaper.
Sponsorship will play an important part in keeping fees low. But it is definitely going to be one of our major challenges.
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
Asian countries will be cheaper
We manage couple of conferences here in India with free entry, purely on sponsorship support. When conducting a conferences in university or college, you can get the venue and infrastructure for free in most of the cases. The major expenses in such case will be
* Speaker travel
* Speaker stay
* Lunch/dinner/snacks
Rest other expenses can be met easily.
As for the hotels, the prices vary a lot. Starting from USD 30 per attendee per day to USD 200 per attendee per day.
regards
Vivek
Looks like
Looks like this discussion is leading towards scheduling a DCAPO meetup at a DrupalCamp at some location. If that is the case then it might be straight forward to assume that DCAPO will eventually be doing a presentation at those DrupalCamps.
Maybe discussions leading up to what that presentation will consist, which will most likely include identifying how this group will operate, and why and how communities can get involved will get this group closer to participating in DrupalCamps. I think advertising the idea of a DrupalCon in Asia-Pacific on and off the DrupalCamp presentations might be the main theme.
Even before that, if our schedules permit we can unofficially just get together at a DrupalCamp and observe and figure how this group can support and advertise at DrupalCamps (don't know if this is possible but if the Association can sponsor plane tickets for some members that might be great support).
Maybe occasionally we could get a small DCAPO booth at some of the larger DrupalCamps. Or find local members to get the booth in those locations worked out, and we could support those efforts.
Fantastic Idea
I think this is a fantastic Idea. We have a Drupalcamp on the anvil in February in India (announcement would come soon). We woul will be happy receive them here and provide local hospitality :)
regards
Vivek
DCAPO meetup at a DrupalCamp
How many of us could get to DrupalSouth?
http://wellington2010.drupalsouth.net.nz/
23-24 January 2010
Wellington New Zealand?
Bevan is organising - so he'll be there.
I'll be there... anyone else?
Donna Benjamin
Former Board Member Drupal Association (2012-2018)
@kattekrab
Maybe
possibly, haven't decided yet.
--Ryan
Ryan Cross
Drupal Development Services
ProjectPier project management and collaboration software
No Go
As much as I wd love to (and use it as an excuse to be a bit of trekking about) -- I cannot. I just get back from a trip to the U.S. a few days prior. Sorry!
-rico!
water&stone
a full service digital agency
www.waterandstone.com
yes
I'll be there!
It would be super if we could
It would be super if we could get more international attendees to DrupalSouth. We will have a good turn out from Australia and 3 featured speakers – Angela Byron (webchick), Emma Jane Hogbin and Liz Henry – from North America. (This is in part thanks to Linux.conf.au where Emma and Angie are speaking and many Australians are attending.) But no others from the Asia-Pacific region that I am aware of.
DrupalSouth is limited most of all by it's size. The other organizers and I have limited capacity to organise, and we have committed to a venue with max 100 attendees. We haven't opened registrations yet but I'm expecting it to sell out. (By the way it's not too late to sponsor DrupalSouth. Contact us.)
I don't think that DrupalCamps are the best place to make critical decisions about DCAP though – since such discussions exclude those who are not able to attend. I'm not sure if that's what was being suggested or not – but I thought I should clarify.
Bevan/
IRC is another option
IRC meetup is another option to take decisions about DCAP.
Central location to promote events
Why cant we have a central location to promote all regional events like Drupal camp, events, sprints, meetup and days. I tried posting on d.o about Drupal Sprint India but posting was denied saying that d.o doesnot allow posting of regional events. Cross posting is a tedious task and it is not interesting to see ame post on multiple lists. Instead having a page on d.o where all events announcements can be posted will be helpful in event promotion.
The Local user group
The Local user group organizers group kind of serves that purpose.
Bevan/
Or a new "Asia-Pacific" group?
vivekkhurana wrote:
> Why cant we have a central location to promote all regional events (...)
For this kind of things, a new general "Asia-Pacific" group for all users would be nice -in addition to this group for organisers-, as a meeting point for the Asia-Pacific Drupal users community.
Perhaps I'm missing
Perhaps I'm missing something, but IMO that's what this group is for (among other things). I think separating them into two groups would be confusing.
Bevan/
IMHO a general Asia-Pacific
IMHO a general Asia-Pacific group and an Asia-Pacific DrupalCon Organisers group wouldnt be the best solution... maybe the nomenclature of the current group is a bit more intimidating (as it emphasises on Organisers) but this should be the meeting point for everything Asia-Pacific and people should volunteer about organising Drupal things from here only
DrupalCamp cross-promotion
vivekkhurana wrote:
> Why cant we have a central location to promote all regional events
I was thinking a general Asia-Pacific group for all users would be a natural place to crosspost DrupalCamp announcements, etc. (on the local group and on the Asia-Pacific group), in order to easily inform all those interested. However, it seems true that this group for organisers could also have that function, if users check it from time to time to see the news. So, organisers should do what Bevan suggested:
> Possibly the best way to cross-promote them is to post major announcements (not minor ones) to this group, and promote events of neighbouring regions in your area.