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Events happening in the community are now at Drupal community events on www.drupal.org.

Welcome

Welcome to the brainstorming group for the 2014 Drupal.org roadmap! This group is to help the Drupal.org Software Working Group gather community input into the 2014 budget and plans for Drupal.org improvements. Please read the announcement for more background/details.

Latest ideas Most popular Recent Comments

To participate:

  1. Review the list of submitted proposals and "vote up" and/or comment on ones that speak to you.
  2. If you don't see your idea reflected, propose your own ideas using the idea template.
  3. While we want to hear about everything that's on your mind, we're especially interested in small, but impactful ideas.
  4. Proposals are wiki pages, so feel free to provide additional details in other peoples' proposals; think of them as "issue summaries" for ideas, so keep them neutral.

Voting/feedback will considered until 00:00 GMT on September 6, 2013, in order to give us ample time to make a proposal (which the results here will be a part of) for the Drupal Association Board Retreat prior to DrupalCon Prague. Thanks for participating!

Recent comments

Diogenes's picture

My apologies for previously refering to Drupal Answers as Drupal SE.

The StackOverflow/StackEchange model is brilliant. Reputation is earned by asking good questions and providing good answers. There is reward in partcipating and reward in effort.

But the devil is in the details. Voting is also rewarded and a way to make friends. The more questions/answers/votes that one posts, the richer one becomes (unless he is a blathering idiot). Different powers are granted to members with the accumulation of points. Certain members with enough points are allowed to flag Q/A's they consider inappropriate. Let's call these members the princelings.

Unlike voting down, which costs any member a point, a princeling can exercise his/her/its authority without consequence. They often do.

Fortunately the SO model can be tweaked to perform well (or NOT).

I'll make a bold prediction here. Drupal Answers and Drupal.org will remain two solitudes. It hasn't happened and it's not going to happen.

And that's too bad.

pbuyle's picture

I've have not noticed what you describe... yet I've asked questions that have never been answered by moderators (so we can assume that any moderator that have seen them was not able to answer them). On both Drupal.SE and the original SO.

On Drupal.SE, you don't get reputation by asking and anwering your own question. You only get points by getting your questions and answer up-voted and accepted or by getting a suggested edit accepted. However, you loose reputation when you downvote anything. So there is no reputation incentive to vote things down. And there is no reputation gain in moderating anything since you don't get reputation by moderating.

Diogenes's picture

Therein lies the paradox of Drupal SE. It has the potential to be quite useful for support. But the last time I checked (that a long time ago), there were no links on the Drupal.org website to the Drupal SE website unless one digs really deep. I found this rather odd.

Then I posted my first question on Drupal SE. What a disappointment.

some users can be overzealous when it comes to moderations

Has anyone noticed that the Drupal SE moderators are the ones who have accumulated the most reputation points by asking and answering their own questions? And the same people are the ones who shut you down when they can't answer the question themselves?

I don't want to go all Sigmund Freud on everybody but both Drupal.org and Drupal SE have some ego/id problems to work out.

So Drupal is "Open Source"? ROTF & LMAO. OMG that is funny..

pbuyle's picture
  • A SE site is not a forum. One of the premise of SE is that a forum is a bad solution to implement a Q&A site. And while Drupal is certainly capable of being configured/extended to implement a solution much more like SE, it would require a substential amount of work.
  • There is actually a lot on control given by SE to the community. Much of the governance of a SE site is delegated its community via the accompagning meta site.
  • If I remember correctly, there is an API usable to create an external backup of a SE site. There is actually a lot of junk sites that re-publish complete SE sites with added ads. Should Drupal officialy uses Drupal.SE as its Q&A site, peridiodic backup and an exit strategy in case SE fails the community would be required.
  • Dicussions are better kept on a forum, the idea of the suggestion is to use SE as replacement for the support forum(s). That said, answering your own question should be an accepted practice accross all SE sites (see https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/12513/should-i-not-answer-my-ow...). One of the example given would make a good self-answered question.
  • The decision of were to redirect the user has already been made by Google and numerous search engines. Drupal.SE is the clear winner. The problem is mostly that Drupal.org invite the newcomers to uses the support forum(s) on drupal.org when Drupal.SE is seen by many (me included) as a better place (better answer, more active users, better structure, etc.).
  • Yep, moderation on SE site can be harsh and can be dismissive, but they never are insulting. I actually think this is one of their strength because it tends to keep people who don't want to invest the time required to be helped out of the site. The lack of this kind of moderation on a lot of forums (and I don't speak of Drupal.org's forum as I don't use them) usually leads to a flood of badly written questions with badly (and usually wrong) answers. It drives off the people who are willing to help with Drupal issues, not those poor communiction skill issue and unrealistic expectations of how community support works.
    Sadly it also have a bad side effect, some users can be overzealous when it comes to moderations. And sometimes it makes some newcomers feel unwelcome. Shall Drupal.SE be used, that' s something that would have to be closely watched and managed through the SE community management tools (including the meta site).
mherchel's picture

Agree 100% with what Drupalshrek said. To me, this should not even be up for discussion.

drupalshrek's picture

I am broadly against this idea for a number of reasons:

  • this is a dreadful indictment of Drupal if it cannot even do a fairly standard content management task like a forum. Drupal.org is also a showcase of what can be done with Drupal.
  • there is a damaging loss of integration of the visiting user into the whole Drupal.org web universe. This is directly harmful to the building of a Drupal community and the search engine optimisation of Drupal.org. When on Drupal.org users will more easily stumble across or be helped onto other Drupal things (e.g. modules, user groups, Drupal events, Drupal jobs), whereas on SE the only thing users are going to stumble onto is things even further away from Drupal (example of questions currently in the sidebar of a 'Drupal' page on SE: "An aeroplane, when it leaves the ground, 'takes off'. What does a bird do?"
  • we become entirely reliant upon the policies and decisions taken by SE and have no say upon what they do.
  • we become vulnerable even to SE closure of the service. We can argue that the risk is small, but we should bear it in mind as a risk. These folk below didn't expect it for other externalised services:
  • There are forum posts which are in no way Questions, and thus would not be allowed on SE, for example:
  • there is a valid place for the Drupal.org linear forum format
  • I don't see any reason why we shouldn't keep the current Drupal.org forums, and if people want to use the SE Q&A format, fine, and let Google decide where to direct users
  • I dislike some of the dismissive way that some questions are brushed aside. Typical SE blocking comments:

    closed as off topic by kiamlaluno♦ Apr 30 '13 at 16:53

    Questions on Drupal Answers are expected to relate to Drupal within the scope defined by the community. Consider editing the question or leaving comments for improvement if you believe the question can be reworded to fit within the scope. Read more about reopening questions here.
    If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.

mgifford's picture

I believe this isn't a barrier any more for folks signing up.

mgifford's picture

This seems like it should be an issue in Drupal.org Customizations that folks who are interested in this idea might be able to push forward.

LewisNyman, I'm not sure how this would replace a “was this helpful?” button as I recently proposed here https://drupal.org/node/2205671

sandip choudhury's picture

Drupal.org can also use Google Search api to build a search system in own website. Modules are available - https://drupal.org/project/google_cse. Don't know it will be versatile like current search or not.

greggles's picture

"mostly useless" is a pretty bold claim when that particular block was designed/developed with a rigorous analysis to ensure it is useful: https://drupal.org/node/323106

Letting people edit the data is proposed in https://drupal.org/node/479812 (which I see mgifford has already commented on).

Seems like a solid idea to mix with the automated recommendations.

mgifford's picture

Wanted to add a link to this page here as an example - http://www.comaintainer.com

It's very useful to have a list like this and then to regularly use the Drupal infrastructure to support projects that need maintainers.

mgifford's picture

There was a previous issue about how to improve this block:
https://drupal.org/node/479812

Right now it's mostly useless, your suggesting would definitely be an improvement.

hadi farnoud's picture

I don't see Github migration happening without Github help.

what if we keep the issues on d.o and replicate it on Github with their API?

markhalliwell's picture

Perhaps we can tackle this in the next month or so.

cyberswat's picture

I'd like to clarify that this conversation happened from the perspective that we maintain our own issue queues, etc. This is purely focusing on what would happen if github hosted the repos and we were to begin tighter integration with their API.

cyberswat's picture

Everything that I read seems to indicate that github could take us 80-90% (rough numbers ... put the pitchforks away) towards a workable solution leaving some serious, but not unsolvable, issues to work on. I keep getting stuck on that thought.

So I called github to see what they thought about this issue and the associated google doc. Here's a rough summary of their thoughts because this was an informal conversation.

  • They feel that their platform is a perfect companion to the work we are doing. (naturally)
  • They feel that the project would benefit the most, in regards to some of the user management issues, from using their public facing site vs some type of an enterprise partnership where we ran versions of their software.
  • They reviewed the spreadsheet and concerns and feel that the majority of the issues are related to workflow and are solvable.
  • They are willing to provide direct contacts between the projects (they can't give us a dedicated team but can connect us to individuals).
  • They are willing to help us develop a migration plan.
  • They are willing to do a webex with us to discuss as a group.
  • They are willing to help us with messaging regarding workflow changes.
  • They are willing to send a group to talk with us in person.
  • They are willing to escalate their support efforts if we migrate to help us as a community.

I think that we could save a lot of infrastructure cost, maintenance, and contributor time with a partnership like this and that it could, in theory, help pave the way for future relationships that might be able to help us. It seems like the next logical phone call would be to the Travis-CI folks. I'd love to tell them "Hey, we have tests that are so good that we can't use your existing system and want to help you create modification X, Y and Z."

greg.1.anderson's picture

Just thought that I'd update my comment above after having more experience using GitHub with Drush for a while. It is true that GitHub adds some very nice features, like inline comments in diffs, that drupal.org does not have. However, it's also a little awkward to do some things. GitHub is designed primarily for projects where maintainers collaborate with a single non-maintainer PR submitter. On drupal.org (and in Drush), it is common for multiple non-maintainers to collaborate on the same patch. This sort of workflow is a little awkward on GitHub; the easiest way to do it is for each contributor to fork the primary repository, and make commits in their own repository, with each commit comment referencing the original issue number in the GitHub issue queue. The multi-contributor workflow still is not as nice on GitHub as it is on drupal.org, though, as it is not as convenient to set labels on issues, assign issues to non-maintainers, or quickly merge commits from a third-party forked repository into your own fork. The cli is required for this, and for testing a PR after merge, but before committing it.

I'm sure these activities will get easier on GitHub over time. At the moment, what we'd ideally like is a system that had features from both platforms.

cyberswat's picture

This is a nice interface .. seems like you could combine data from the github api's with metrics from d.o. statistics to create a useful view of contrib. Here's an example of someone using the github data in new ways http://adereth.github.io/blog/2013/12/23/counting-stars-on-github/

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