Ubercart and PayPal

ddease2's picture

Hey fellow Drupalers -

I have a quick question on using PayPal with Ubercart (or Drupal Commerce):

  1. I have both Drupal 6 sites (Ubercart) and Drupal 7 (Ubercart or Drupal Commerce) sites that need shopping cart integration
  2. Do I need to have the PayPal $30 a month merchant account to integrate using the API? Or can I integrate with the "free" PayPal account?
  3. Are any of you using PayPal currently with UC/DC and can you provide me your feedback as to how well it works? (as opposed to Google Checkout, etc.)

Thanks, all!

Dan Dease
ddease2 - Skype
dan@dandease.com
321-303-7303

Comments

No, you don't have to have

JCL324's picture

No, you don't have to have the paid account. We did it for FL Drupal Camp this year. If you remember your login, I'd be happy to let you look at how it was setup.

JCL

There's two (or more) ways to

garethsprice's picture

There's two (or more) ways to integrate Paypal - Website Payments Standard and Website Payments Pro. The simpler option takes the user via Paypal to process the payment and is free to implement. The "white label" version where the user never leaves your site is paid.

Used Paypal with UC a few times and it's always been easy to implement and hassle free. The Payments Standard does allow paying with a credit card but users can get confused and the conversion rate drops because they assume they need a Paypal account to pay (they do not, but the option to pay using a CC with no Paypal account is a bit hard to see).

If you expect a lot of people checking out who do not have Paypal or don't understand the system (ie. non-technical users), and a 5-10% drop in conversions is greater than the monthly price of Payments Pro, then it's worth upgrading to the Pro version. Also, if you're going to be doing mid-$x,000+ a month in transactions then compare the cost of Paypal to the cost of a full authorize.net merchant account, as there's a point where Paypal's high fees make it cheaper to go with a traditional merchant account.

Not used Drupal Commerce for a production project yet as it doesn't appear stable enough, but I haven't installed it for a couple of months so it may have gotten better now. The 1.0 release is scheduled for Drupalcon London at the end of the month and I have a few projects in a holding pattern waiting for it to be stable.

Orlando, FL Web Developer | http://www.garethsprice.com/

Thanks

ddease2's picture

Gareth,

Your post was particularly helpful. I also assumed (from days past) that customers had to have a PayPal account, however, as you stated thats not the case. In fact, it looks like PayPal has responded to this confusion and made a change to their payment page:

Thanks, again.

Dan

Dan Dease


321-303-7303 mobile/voicemail
dan@dandease.com

Thanks Gareth for the great

JCL324's picture

Thanks Gareth for the great summary! It is confusing to sift through all the PayPal jargon, but you told it in plain English :-)

JCL

agreed

ultimike's picture

I agree with John - Gareth's summary is one of the best I've read. Short, and to the point. Nice.

Gareth - you should write that up as a blog post and make sure it goes on Drupal Planet. (drupal.org/planet). It would probably help a lot of people.

Thanks,
-mike

Payment Options

avr's picture

One resource to use when looking for a payment gateway is: http://feefighters.com (I'm not affiliated with them at all - just like their resources).

They have a calculator that allows you figure out your 'break even' point: http://feefighters.com/paypal-calculator. Keep in mind that this is comparing the "Pro" or paid version of PayPal with a merchant account (something like Authorize.net).

I have a bunch of sites using D6 + Ubercart. Only one is using PayPal, the rest are Authorize.net. I agree with Garreth in the confusion of redirecting users to PayPal and the 'hard to find' credit card option. Another item that lacks in the Ubercart + PayPal setup is the limited information that is passed to PayPal during the transaction. Of course you can always find sales summaries in Ubercart - but more robust 'line item reporting' to PayPal would be nice. (I may have missed that option).

I am currently working on 2 D7 + Commerce sites set to launch in September. In testing (with Authorize.net) everything seems to be working as expected.

feefighters.com

ddease2's picture

The premise of this site is GREAT! However....

If you (or anyone) needs a Merchant Account (real, not PayPal, etc.) PLEASE call me first! I went through the tutorial and got my "quotes" they were 2-3 times what I typically charge (honestly).

The inside baseball on this site and similar....they get paid monthly referral fees based on customers they send to these processors. There is nothing wrong with that, my company has similar relationships with POS dealers in the hospitality industry.

Just keep in mind that if you go with them you're paying rates that are paying both the end processor AND FeeFighters.com. I am not questioning the referral source, as I think it is quite valuable, but I will say that .40% and .30 per transaction (which is what my "quotes" came back at) is a SOLID margin of profit...and I usually quote half that. Also, you'd get me as your Rep! (I hear the calls coming in now...)

Anyway, I'm looking at this site as a great research and education tool. I've already forwarded it to my boss...maybe you'll see Sterling Payment Technologies on there soon? Until then, I'm here if you need me.

Thanks,

Dan Dease
321-303-7303
www.sterlingpayment.com

Dan Dease


321-303-7303 mobile/voicemail
dan@dandease.com

Thanks

ddease2's picture

Ok, I've got it installed and I'm running a test transaction now. I agree with Gareth, the "apparent" requirement of a Paypal account does seem a bit confusing. But I'd rather educate than pay, at least for now.

One more question:

I notice in the shipping section the USPS shipping methods are showing the following:

First-Class Mail<sup>&reg;</sup> Package: $2.56
Priority Mail<sup>&reg;</sup> Flat Rate Envelope: $4.95
Priority Mail<sup>&reg;</sup>: $5.10
etc...

Is this some setting I'm missing, or have you even seen this error before?

thanks,

Dan

Dan Dease


321-303-7303 mobile/voicemail
dan@dandease.com

Dan, where's the error? This

garethsprice's picture

Dan, where's the error? This looks normal to me. You can enable/disable different USPS tariffs in the shipping method settings if you'd prefer to hide certain methods.

Orlando, FL Web Developer | http://www.garethsprice.com/

<sup>&reg;</sup>

ddease2's picture

Gareth,

Thanks for the reply. I updated the Ubercart module and it now looks as expected.

http://sterling.dandease.com/articles/uber-shipping

Thanks!

Dan

Dan Dease


321-303-7303 mobile/voicemail
dan@dandease.com

FeeFighters

smohnot's picture

FeeFighters here. Dan, I'd love to know what you're talking about with quotes of .40% and .30 per transaction. Bids in our system never come out that high. I looked at all auctions for the past month and none of them were that high, so you are clearly lying - spreading fear and hoping that people don't compare your rates to those at http://FeeFighters.com. There is almost always a quote of 0.10% + $0.10... and with volume, rates are even lower. Do you offer rates that low? Do you have no cancellation policy/no contracts where you lock your customers in? You won't ever see Sterling on the FeeFighters marketplace because we only accept actual processors on our marketplace, not Independent Sales Organizations like Sterling. Names like TSYS, First Data, Vantiv (Fifth Third), First National, etc.

The point of a marketplace is to bring transparency. We have customers ranging from tiny startups and restaurants to large public companies. All have found a better deal on FeeFighters than they did anywhere else - I doubt that "Sterling Payment," a tiny ISO would somehow have a better deal. Stop the bullshit.

Good Job! (strictly sarcasm)

BLadwin's picture

Way to go for representing your company, feefighters; I mean, your really gonna call BS w/o checking Dan's facts or getting more info from him first!? Dan has been an integral part of the CFL Drupal community for quite sometime, and is not a bullshitter! Frankly, I'm thankful that you made this post. Now I can assume that ALL of FeeFighters customer service is as volatile and disrespectful as yours.

Thanks for being a douche!

Dan,
I'm sorry that your having trouble w/ finding a fee-less payment gateway, hopefully we can get more helpful and meaningful insight from another processor; as far as I'm concerned, after the previous comment, FeeFighters doesn't even exist. There's no reason for them to be defensive unless they're trying to save face. Let me know what other processors you find; CND might be rolling out an event ticketing site in the near future, so it might be beneficial to us too.

-Erik

Not cool, feefighters.

garethsprice's picture

Agreed Erik, would prefer a little more decorum from someone with whom I may advise clients to pass millions of dollars of their customers' money through. Not a good trust builder. There's a reason banks go out of their way to appear sober and professional.

Orlando, FL Web Developer | http://www.garethsprice.com/

btw

smohnot's picture

this isn't yet complete but may be helpful:
http://feefighters.com/gateway-comparison

Fair point about decorum, and I apologize

smohnot's picture

I understand that Dan is an integral part of the community here and I am not. That doesn't excuse him from lying about our rates to steer customers his way. I just wanted to set the record straight... There hasn't been an auction where the winning bids were the rates he claims.

It makes us angry because we work so hard to bring the best rates and fantastic customer service to our customers. Check reviews before you choose a processor, and NOT the BBB (http://feefighters.com/blog/the-bbb-is-a-scam/)

Thank you for the

liberatr's picture

Thank you for the caveat. I have always been a bit skeptical of the BBB. At the same time, that page reads like a tabloid headline.

Dan's reputation here is squeaky clean, he has everything to lose if he were to mislead us. I will be sure to tell everyone about how you came in here and attacked my friend when I am asked who to use for a payment processor.

and just to clarify...

avr's picture

Just to clarify - my linking to FeeFighters was for their resources & calculators - not a recommendation for their services.

Thanks

ddease2's picture

Thanks, avr.

But there's no need to clarify. I still appreciated the info. FeeFighters.com is a great concept and very well done website in many regards.

As I stated in my original post, I'd actually send merchants to that site, as it does a fairly decent job at what it purports to do: side-by-side comparison of processing fees.

I still stand by my other original comment that merchants will find my company very competitive with those listed on their site. But information is power and I am not afraid to compare apples to apples. ;)

Dan

Dan Dease


321-303-7303 mobile/voicemail
dan@dandease.com

ddease2's picture

Folks, I'm sorry for the delay in responding. I have been extremely busy traveling with work. In any event, here goes....

 

"smohnot" - "Stop the bullshit."

I agree, lets.

The only people who retaliate in anger, fear or obsenity are those of whom the accusations are true. Otherwise, what is the need to defend yourself using profanity?

I don't know you, "smohnot", what you do for a living, what kind of man (or woman) you are, or how much you know about the credit card processing industry. However, I am more than happy to respond to your criticsms (as many of my fellow Drupalers in this group have done...thank you by the way.) Please follow below, as I address your points:

 

On Aug 10, 2011, at 11:03 AM, smohnot wrote:

Comment 'FeeFighters' by smohnot

FeeFighters here. Dan, I'd love to know what you're talking about with quotes of .40% and .30 per transaction. Bids in our system never come out that high. I looked at all auctions for the past month and none of them were that high, so you are clearly lying - spreading fear and hoping that people don't compare your rates to those at http://FeeFighters.com.

 

"smohnot", I have taken the liberty to screen capture your web site for purpose of this conversation:

Fee Fighters screen capture -top

Please notice the first two options on your system. Am I correct in stating that you see that Century Bank Card is quoting .40% + .20 per transaction, per their listing on your web site? Am I also correct in stating that North American Bank Card is quoting .40% + .30 per transaction?

I thought, perhaps these two are just anomalies to your system? However, upon scrolling further down on this search, we also find (third option down):

Fee Fighters screen capture - bottom

First National Merchant Solutions at .45% and .15 per transaction.

 

There is almost always a quote of 0.10% + $0.10... and with volume, rates are even lower.

I think it is incorrect to state "almost always", considering above.

 

Do you offer rates that low?

Actually, as I stated in my initial post, I typically quote most merchants around .15% + .10. However, I have quoted .20% + .10 on a number of occasions, particularly those that involve free equipment or other merchant benefits. So, to answer your question, yes. I have a number of customers who are paying .08% + and .08, and even one or two that are paying 0% + .05 (but these merchants are also doing over $300k a month with me, and they were highly competitive situations.) In general, I never charge customers more than they are currently paying. The only time I may end up being more expensive is if they are getting a different processing solution or additional services. In both cases, I am completely up front with them.

 

Do you have no cancellation policy/no contracts where you lock your customers in?

I have the industry standard (at least as far as direct processors go - which I realize you dispute, and I will address below) $395 for 3 years. I make no excuses about this. In my industry, merchants are constantly bombarded with 20 credit card sales guys per month coming in offering to save them thousands to switch. This is the case, even if there is a total of $200 of profit in their merchant processing! Unfortunately, by the time the merchant realizes they have been duped, they have also signed an competitors' application and are now in their cancellation policy!

The purpose of the "agreements" that I, and most of my competitors, require is to discourage merchants from jumping from processor to processor, being lured by these outright lies. If these preventative measures exist, merchants will at least contact me first to ask why they can "save" so much. This gives me the opportunity to consult with them and explain the numbers. After they realize they would have actually paid more (in most circumstances), they are quite appreciative, actually.

Finally, before I give you a slight correction on Sterling, I would like to let you know a little secret about the processors you listed below. Most of these have early termination fees. First Data, which I affectionately refer to as "The Evil Empire" actually has a 5 year, $595 ETF. This is because they typically go through ISO's (middlemen brokers -- I elaborate below) that offer NO customer service and significantly higher rates, probably due to the extra layer of fees between the actual processing bank and the merchant. Merchants are lured to FD through Costco, Sam's, and SunTrust here in Orlando. If I had a dollar for every merchant I've saved from them, I could retire. But I digress...

 

You won't ever see Sterling on the FeeFighters marketplace because we only accept actual processors on our marketplace, not Independent Sales Organizations like Sterling. Names like TSYS, First Data, Vantiv (Fifth Third), First National, etc.

That's unfortunate for FeeFighters, perhaps I'll look to one of your competitors.

In the processing industry, there are ISO's (individual sales organizations) who's sole purpose it to broker credit card processing technology. These individuals (who sometimes consist of very small groups) typically work out of their homes and broker with a several processors to be able to offer multiple processors to their merchants. Similar to a Mortgage Broker Business, payment card industry ISO's believe they provide a valuable service by shopping their merchants to various processors. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that they usually shop until they find the best pricing for them, rather than the merchant.

ISO's truly operate as middlemen between the company that processes the transactions and the merchant. They will get the merchant to sign the agreement, possibly provide them with hardware, and then effectively "sell" them to the processor for an upfront fee $300-1000 and (in some instances) monthly residuals on their processing activity. At this point, the ISO is completely removed from the relationship, as all support, billing, post-sales services, and compliance issues belong now to the referred processor. So, in this sense, ISO's are simply "hired guns" that are a sales channel for direct processors. How do I know this? Because my little ISO (Sterling) has about 900 of them, in addition to a fleet of Account Executives we call Direct Sales, of which I am a part.

Sterling Payment Technologies is located at 1111 North Westshore Blvd in Tampa, Florida. We are a privately held company, celebrating our ten year anniversary in 2011, with over 100 employees, 900 independent sales organizations, and we currently process 8 million transactions per month for over 25,000 merchants. Our executive board consists of past executives from companies such as RBS, Genpass, STAR Systems Network, GENSAR Technologies, ENDATA Corporation, First Financial Management Corporation (FFMC), PMT Services, NOVA Corporation, and First American Payment Systems, L.P. While only ten years old, Sterling is a new breed of technology-focused payment processors, built from the ground up.

Being a direct partner of VeriFone, Way Systems, Engenico, and a few other minor players, Sterling provides direct sales and support for these manufacturer's hardware. We also partner directly with most major hospitality POS (Point-of-Sale) Software developers across the country, providing them direct integration to our payment processing gateways, as well as direct technical support, and we provide their most of their POS restaurant customers their encrypted middle-ware interfaces at no charge.

As a technology company, Sterling has developed its own merchant services solutions, including:

  • Sterling Rewards (our proprietary credit-card based loyalty program),
  • Sterling's SPOT NextGen virtual terminal,
  • ExpressLane Plus (a credit card integrated Sam4s cash register with web-based reporting and PLU configuration)
  • Sterling EZ-Pay (our proprietary third-party billing system), and
  • Sterling Funding (our business capital funding provider for POS equipment and other merchant funding needs)

While Sterling technically is an ISO (or MSP - Member Service Provider), we are categorized within the industry as a "merchant acquirer":

"In support of the transaction flow, merchant acquirers generally perform four key functions: (1) signing up and underwriting merchants to accept network-branded cards, (2) providing the means to authorize valid card transactions at client merchant locations (3) facilitating the clearing and settlement of the transactions through the payment network, and (4) providing other relevant information services, such as sending out statements." Source

The bottom line is, we provide sales, service and (most importantly) direct support to our merchants. We do not sell accounts to other processors, rather we are the processor to our merchants, albeit using existing technology networks that have proven track records of service, reliability and security.

 

The point of a marketplace is to bring transparency. We have customers ranging from tiny startups and restaurants to large public companies. All have found a better deal on FeeFighters than they did anywhere else -

We are in the same industry and our goals (apparently) are similar. I too support merchants that range greatly in size. Perhaps they have found a "better deal" on your site. For that I commend you. My initial post only referenced the pricing that I myself saw from my own search. I did not mean to offend you, or FeeFighters. In fact, I sincerely stated:

"I'm looking at this site as a great research and education tool."

Finally, "smohnot", I understand and appreciate your goal of transparency. To that end—since I have been (exhaustedly) forthright with you in my response—I would ask you to be the same. One simple question. Does FeeFighter.com, or of its business affiliates, receive any sort of renumeration from the processors it lists on its site?

I will respect your refusal to go into detail, but a simple yes or no will suffice.

 

I doubt that "Sterling Payment," a tiny ISO would somehow have a better deal.

I sincerely hope I have educated you to conclude otherwise.

 

Stop the bullshit.

I have done my best to do so, "smohnot".

P.S. In the future, may I suggest that you consider using your real name rather than an anonymous forum "handle", particularly in representing your company? Some might misconstrue you as having something to hide, or of possibly being illegitimate. I don't believe that to be the case, but some may assume.

Sincerely,

Dan Dease
Account Executive - Central Florida
Sterling Payment Technologies
321-303-7303 DIRECT

800-383-0561 ext. 1228

Dan Dease


321-303-7303 mobile/voicemail
dan@dandease.com

First let me apologize

smohnot's picture

Dan, sorry about that. My name is Sheel Mohnot. I'm director of business development at FeeFighters. You can find my bio here: http://feefighters.com/about
As you know, there are a bunch of sheisters in this industry and I incorrectly lumped you in with them. It's great that you offer interchange plus pricing at .15 and 10 cents. That is definitely fresh air in the industry.

That being said - I stand by my statement that what you said was inaccurate! Take a look at the rest of the screenshot you posted above.. Merchant focus gave you a rate of Interchange +0.10% +$0.08, and that's for a company only doing $600/month in transactions! The reason that Century shows up first is the difference in monthly fees.
We have companies paying much much less too, but as I said, we also have customers that are quite large. You also chose to omit First Data from your screenshot, a deal that is interchange +0.10% + $0.10 as I stated. A $600/month merchant is also atypical... feel free to play around with the site to get a sense for other numbers.

Re: contracts and early termination - We don't allow it. What you say is true for the most part - if you go direct to the processors they will typically have a termination clause in the contract. However, we've mandated that none of them do on our marketplace. You should push Sterling to do the same. It's much more customer friendly.

Finally - how do we get paid... it says on our site (FAQ), but I'll reply. We act like a sales channel for the processors. We get a small revshare from the processors. The processors don't pay anything to be on our marketplace.

Cheers.

Using www.ecwid.com instead

jbeech's picture

A fellow I know is maintaining 5 Drupal sites and instead of using Ubercart, or waiting for Drupal Commerce, he pointed me to something he uses called Ecwid.

I am investigating because it's how he is using it, e.g. one cart with multiple Drupal sites, which is exactly what I want to do. Another important factor is how it plays nice with QuickBooks. Plus, because I am presently spending $100/month on a volusion.com website, their $17/month fee is attractive.

Any thoughts? What am I missing?

John Beech - GM (and janitor)
http://www.genesishobby.com
407-302-3361

help.....

prasannashirley's picture

hi ....
iam new to drupal.iam using drupal7.i strucked in checkout page in ubercart module.I want how to access my axis bank and icici bank in checkout page .actually i want the step by step procedure.Please help me.If anyboy know please mail me my id is mprasanna.php@gmail.com

Florida

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