Posted by attiks on January 29, 2017 at 6:18pm
A lot of people are worried how a Drupalcon organised in the USA can be considered "open" when a lot of people are not even allowed to enter the country
A lot of people are worried how a Drupalcon organised in the USA can be considered "open" when a lot of people are not even allowed to enter the country
Comments
Twitter
Twitter conversations
https://twitter.com/catch56/status/825757027553116160
https://twitter.com/bertboerland/status/825407399301410820
https://twitter.com/jpoesen/status/825654200210227200
https://twitter.com/MarcDrummond/status/825419127896563712
Token Change to Start
I posted in the other topic too, the one asking if we shouldn't consider moving hosting of Drupal.org for similar reasons. Here too I can't think of anything radical that we can do like cancel Drupal events in the 'States. But how about some token change. One year we move the North American DrupalCon to Canada or Mexico and the next, if things do not improve, maybe all the way to a country making it to the top of some freedom listings.
Look, Canada maybe a bit cold, but it's right there and in easy reach and big enough to protest the degradation of freedom for a couple of years without repeating cities and it feels like one's seeing the world a bit more.
I know that if I do travel I already don't take computer equipment or logins with me at all and buy a cell phone when I land. If I fly to the states I suppose some extra precautions may be to lube up before landing and walk with your hands visible at all times ;-) And that's coming from an old white guy - I have no idea how minorities must feel travelling there, nor those rare people advocating for all our freedoms, the very ones we want at the DrupalCon.
PS:
Twitter references? I really only feel I start understanding people by the fourth of fifth paragraph of reading. Single sentences often feel like the headlines on those magazines one sees at rural store check-out counters with photos of celebrities on the beach and guys with orange hair or riding half naked on horseback (maybe together soon). I'm never sure if Drupal.org may have gone all the way to campus safe zone and comedy is prohibited, but I'm from South Africa and we sent our Trevor Noah to come help out at the 'States' (that's not single quotes, they're apostrophes of omission and possession, I think) Comedy Central. Anyway, I hope I die with a sense of humour and the ability to one day make even MortenDK blush in ad-lib excitement.
I agree cancelling is a
I agree cancelling is a radical approach, and I'm not suggesting it at all, but the problem is that some people will not even bother to attend, knowing that there's a good change they will not be allowed into the country based on the country of origin and/or religion.
I like the idea of alternating between North American countries, but I fear that it might impact the revenue so it will be a hard decision to make for the DA.
"Twitter references" the discussion started on twitter, but I've created the issue so we can have a real conversation.
Alternatives
Yes, I seem to vastly underestimate the portion of the Drupal community from the USA (just judging by the comments thus far). Maybe a gesture would be an alternative.
If the commercial tech industry can come out with quotes like:
"It's painful to see the personal cost of this executive order on our colleagues," ... "We’ve always made our view on immigration issues known publicly and will continue to do so." ~ Google CEO Sundar Pichai this past Friday.
Then at least a statement of openness from an open community and project like Drupal will be helpful. Maybe a small fund to help a few people directly impeded by new travel limitations helping a hand full of people with their travel arrangements, perhaps in cooperation with a well known rights organisation from the 'States?
Maybe also assurance and reminder that we do still have a full alternative of the European DrupalCon after all. I'd love to see more, but we have to live with what is practical and it would be nice to see our free, open and inclusive values expressed somehow.
I'm lucky not to only know people from the USA that are very much in line with our values system but when some in our community feel excluded like this it can not be something that goes unanswered.
I'm getting emotional about this now, so should stop posting.
serious blow to US DrupalCon
I think its hard to say if people feel comfortable booking flights and such anymore to the US given news like this one coming out: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/donald-trump-immigrant-policy...
Even in the video reporting of CNN they only question the practicality of executing this :/ So either way I think the president gave a huge blow to DrupalCon Baltimore at least :/ And by that I don't mean "poor DrupalCon", the people not able to attend, the ideas not being shared, friends a decade not meeting again, the businesses not being made, etc. are all hugely sad.
∅
Statement
After sleeping on the matter a bit (just woke up now and at first coffee) I realised that it's much easier for a commercial company to make a statement like that because of their hierarchical management structure. For an association or more, just a wide community like ours, a single statement cannot represent everyone. So it's the very existence of topics and threads like this one that should stand testament.
Known and leading figures in our community and speakers and organisers and so on can still individually find the time to make small mentions of their own positions by their own conscience and persuasion and perhaps open discussions or just conversations with others.
Assistance
Considering the news referenced by Gábor perhaps it is not a great idea to fund / assist travel to the US when it would subject people to such invasiveness.
Moderation (Self)
I mostly avoid posting in topics like this any more and have pretty much completely sanitised my Facebook and other on-line profiles. Each time I travel I clean a bit more and reconsider posting what I do. Of The few posts I made the last two days would, I'm sure, trigger a shift in profile association ;-) Pity, but now I will worry as much about such an on-line profile when I consider travel to the 'States as I do when travelling to some dire African and Middle Eastern countries. (Yup, even more keywords there) ;-)
Erratum
Oh, and I mangled the last sentence in my last post a bit. In stead of "I'm lucky not to only know people from" it should have been "I'm lucky to only know people from", dropping the "not" ;-)
And Yet
And yet, other associations do respond, quoting Ars quoting game industry associations:
"We embrace the fact that the passion and skill for game development knows no boundaries—political, geographic, cultural, or demographic," the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) said in a statement. "Thus to restrict immigration on the basis of an individual's state of origin represents an ignorant knee-jerk [reaction] that assumes only the worst and wrongly stereotypes the people of an entire culture. We stand in absolute opposition to any policy in any government that would seek to unduly restrict an individual's ability to pursue their creative passion and chosen career path in game development."
The Entertainment Software Association, which represents most major game publishers in the United States, was a little more circumspect in its criticism of Trump's order, saying, "The Entertainment Software Association urges the White House to exercise caution with regard to vital immigration and foreign worker programs. As a leading force in technology and exporter of entertainment, the US video game industry thrives on the contributions of innovators and storytellers from around the world. While recognizing that enhancing national security and protecting our country’s citizens are critical goals, our companies rely on the skilled talent of US citizens, foreign nationals, and immigrants alike. Our nation’s actions and words should support their participation in the American economy."
Given I shall be visiting
Given I shall be visiting North Africa only a couple of weeks before Baltimore, maybe it is becoming a bit of a risk trying to get in to the US. Then the risk to myself of being in the country is on top of that!
Hmm - and I was really looking forward to it... :-/
Don't think you need to cancel your plans
I don't think you need to cancel your plans Rachel. Only 720 people have been detained thus far BBC and there's enough resistance to even those few detainments. Some in the Drupal community will be affected, but probably not (yet) a woman from the UK creative industry just visiting the Middle East. Sure, you'll be on some list for having done that, but not around the top ;-)
Also, perhaps just don't use a disguise... like fake moustache or orange hair... erm ;-) (See Rachel's profile photo on D.o).
All that said, I always feel a little out of sorts when travelling, though more so to African and Middle Eastern countries and now perhaps also the 'States. Less so (perhaps not at all) when travelling to Europe.
Response from Drupal Association
Thank you for caring so much about our community and asking such smart questions during these uncertain times. The recent turn of events certainly caught us by surprise. As a nonpartisan nonprofit, we don’t have influence over these geopolitical situations; however, we remain committed to growing and supporting our community in a manner consistent with our values.
DrupalCon Baltimore and DrupalCon North America 2018, which will be in the U.S, too, are already under contract. This means we have no option for moving these events. Due to our financial constraints, we are unable to break these venue and hotel contracts to find a new location.
Later this year we will pick the location for DrupalCon North America 2019. As a part of that process we will re-evaluate and reprioritize what criteria are used to select a location. Events are unfolding quickly, and we will do our best to make sure DrupalCon is as accessible as possible while the U.S. visa and immigration policies continue to evolve.
In the meantime, staff wants to help as much as possible. To understand the scope of impact, we looked at DrupalCon New Orleans attendance data. 86% of attendees (3,000 people) were from the U.S, which means 14% (475 people) came from outside the U.S., 5% came from Canada (170 people), 1% came from the UK (36 people), and another 1% came from India (37 people), additional countries were less represented. [See data here]. This shows that many people could be impacted.
There is a lack of clarity around the executive order, and staff are learning as fast as they can what the recent directives mean for attendees coming from outside the U.S. Given the uncertainty, we urge you to contact your local U.S. consular office for more information about your travel to the U.S. Please note, that The Drupal Association provides DrupalCon invitation letters, to aid in the process of applying for a visa.
Here are few other points to consider whether you want to attend DrupalCon North America or participate from afar.
For those impacted by the recent immigration policy, DrupalCon will refund your ticket if
For those attending DrupalCon, we will continue to provide a friendly and welcoming experience, celebrating our diverse community by working with these two groups:
For those who can’t attend for whatever reason, our commitment to inclusivity always reaches beyond the walls of the event.
Thank you again for starting this discussion. We are listening to your concerns and encourage you to continue sharing your thoughts with us. We will monitor the situation and share more as we know more.
Executive Director, Drupal Association
megansanicki++
Thanks for your transparency and thoughtfulness. I appreciate the desire to respond quickly to developing events and how that can tempered by the DA's need to keep contracts and be financially prudent.
knaddison blog | Morris Animal Foundation
Happy to help
Hi Greggles,
I'm so happy the response helped give some clarity. I'll be sure to keep this dialogue open as things evolve.
Executive Director, Drupal Association
Thanks
Megan,
Thank you for the clear response.
On a related note, will the DA issue a public statement on the recent political events like other tech companies have done?
The DA is not a tech company,
The DA is not a tech company, it's an educational non-profit organization dedicated to helping grow the Drupal project and community. The DA certainly can and should (as Megan has done) address the questions that have been raised by members of the community about the impact that political events have on the activities of the Association, but given that the GPL guarantees that anyone can use Drupal, regardless of their country of origin, religion, or political affiliation, I'm not sure it makes sense for them to comment beyond that.
Provide Free MacBook Pros
Megan,
Thanks for the professional inclusive Response from Drupal Association. As an engineer, I was particularly interested in the DrupalCon New Orleans attendance data from last year. Thank you for sharing that.
The countries impacted by the new USA "extreme vetting" policy include Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia.
In reviewing last years attendance data, I see that no one from these countries attended.
Assuming this is correct, I would propose that the DA also offer to provide free MacBook Pros for all those impacted attendees from DrupalCon New Orleans who can't make it again this year.
This way we'd be sure no one missed out on any of the great DC Baltimore sessions the day they occur.
Only terrorists will be denied access to DrupalCon Baltimore
Even with the new USA "extreme vetting" policy for travelers with visas from Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Libya, Yemen and Somalia, no one has been denied access to the United States in the past week: 800+ were allowed to enter.
Son of Brussels member of parliament denied access
Hard to believe, just one example from yesterday 2/2/2017. Esta denied twice, 'Travel not permitted'
Is it related to the ban, hard to say.
Source: http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/3070645/2017/02/0...
also does that matter?
We all know that most airport checks are theater to threaten potential offenders and to make potential non-offenders feel safer. Announcing intentions to not welcome certain kind of people is enough for those who do not feel safe to not even try (which by the way in itself results in lower stats for people denied access).
For a hypothetical example, if tomorrow the UK (for the sake of this example) announces that they don't like people with painted hair, and they will do extensive background checking on them, even if that in itself does not result in people with painted hair denied entry to the UK, it will dramatically deter people with painted hair to even try to go. At that point for a conference in the UK it does not matter if people don't arrive at the conference because the country denied access to them or if people cancelled their plan to attend outright. In fact the ripple effect is much bigger if the UK does a big show around their extensive background checks of people with painted hair. Which is probably what the UK would want in this case, since there is likely no lawful way to deter people with painted hair to enter the country (based on their hair) but by making it extremely uncomfortable for them to even try will suffice. If you add on top of this that the UK may decide any moment (effective immediately) that people that are above 2m height or people who wear glasses, etc. are also suspicious and need extensive checking, who would feel confident to book travel to that conference in the UK? How do you tell they don't make up something that is true for you in the remaining time between now and the conference?
How do you tell
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blockquote>How do you tell they don't make up something that is true for you in the remaining time between now and the conference?
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That's indeed the most scary part, no idea what will happen in a couple of weeks or months. I probably have to go to the US to visit a client, but honestly I don't look forward to it, I hate the idea that they can hold me for hours at the border for whatever reason.
That's not correct
According to a government attorney in federal court today, more than 100,000 visas have been revoked since the ban took effect: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/trump-immigration-restri...
And one of those denied entry was a 4-month old baby who needs life-saving heart surgery. I highly doubt she's a terrorist: http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/03/politics/travel-ban-iranian-baby-heart-sur...
Alternative fact
That's what you'd call an "alternative fact".
Digital Divide?
I'm glad to hear that sharing data gives more insight into the situation.
We certainly want to help those who might be impacted by the change in immigration policy. Hopefully, our community members have laptops with a browser to access the sessions on Youtube. I do recognize that there is a digital divide and that this issue is far reaching - more so than people realize. I'm actually working with a nonprofit in my area to address this in my local community.
The Drupal Association is not able to fund a laptop give away program, but I do know other organizations who can along provide free or lower cost laptops. If you or others want to get involved in digital divide programs please let me know and I will connect you.
Megan
Executive Director, Drupal Association
Laptop source
A group I ran into several years ago at CES is Labdoo (http://labdoo.org). Recycling laptops wasn't the hook, it was the clever, and eco friendly, method they used to distribute them.
Plus their websites have both been built with Drupal (not by me, I didn't have time to help)
Just read this
Just read this http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/12/14583124/nasa-sidd-bikkannavar-detaine..., so be prepared to give them full access to your phone and probably other devices. If they do things like this to native Americans, it makes me wonder how they "handle" non residents.
I made up my mind, no Drupalcon for me in the US.
I'm sad to hear you plan not
I'm sad to hear you plan not to attend. I appreciate that this border treatment is not desirable and that uncertainty for visitors can lead people to choose not to attend. That seems like a reasonable response. There seems to be some progress in curtailing the inappropriate searches and reducing the number of people who are turned back, but that's not a guarantee of what the future holds.
For people who are going to fly to the USA, here is some research and documents to help prepare for the experience.
knaddison blog | Morris Animal Foundation
Uncertainty
The worst is the uncertainty and the fact I have to prepare all my devices to cross a border, I don't think trying to trick border patrol officials is a good idea.
Might be of interest regarding the scholarships, pycon grant the scholarship in case people are not allowed to enter the country, https://pycon.blogspot.be/2017/02/financial-aid-deadline-is-february-15....
Totally understood and think
Totally understood and think that's a reasonable response. I'm just saying that if someone is coming and concerned, a little preparation could be helpful.
knaddison blog | Morris Animal Foundation
We're an association of people
I don't blame people for not wanting to travel to the U.S. I probably wouldn't do it either if I wasn't already here. In fact, I live in North Carolina and I have cousins that won't visit because they are boycotting our hateful and stupid HB2. I understand it's too late to change Baltimore, but I am willing to (ask my employer to) take on the added expense of traveling to Canada or Mexico (or Cuba!) for future NA cons.
I think we can and should look at the impact of the Trump/Bannon administration on people both in the US and the rest of the planet. These actions are not only unfairly limiting travel, they also stimulate hostility and discrimination against people based on religion and ethnicity. This hurts every member of our global community.
Especially because we are an association of human beings and not a company organized around a financial bottom line, I think the Drupal Association should make a statement and add our voices to the loud chorus calling out against the creeping fascism emanating from Washington, DC. This is a moment unlike any other in our history.
I agree
I agree. A lot of the tech industry has already spoken out against the ban:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2017/01/28/silicon-val...