Facebook and MySite

We encourage users to post events happening in the community to the community events group on https://www.drupal.org.
agentrickard's picture

I've been mucking around on FaceBook for the last week. It's cool, and the apps are nice.

And the dirty little secret is that MySite supports this type of "app" functionality through its plugin API -- it might even be made to read Facebook apps.

So where's the developer love?

/me stops whining

[UPDATE: I have stopped reading this thread.] 23-OCT-2007.

Comments

Drupal For Facebook

RobLoach's picture

A little project called Drupal for Facebook might interest you. I haven't experimented integrating it with MySite though.

MySite or MySpace?

Alex UA's picture

I have no idea what MySite is. Do you mean MySpace, or can you provide a link?

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

MySite example

projectstars's picture

Excuse me for butting in, but I thought you might like a real-world example too:

http://projectstars.com/mysite/all

Here's the project page:
http://drupal.org/project/mysite

So it's a module.

Alex UA's picture

And no snark was even necessary to give that simple answer. Hell, you could have even linked to the module itself and maybe helped its SEO a bit.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

linked, perhaps

greggles's picture

but then the whole point of "search before asking" would be lost.

--
Knaddisons Denver Life | mmm Chipotle Log | The Big Spanish Tour

I suppose...

Alex UA's picture

but then the whole point of "explaining yourself to people not in your really tiny niche group" would be lost.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

This conversation reminds me of an snl skit....

Google

agentrickard's picture

Moshe, that Google search is remarkable unhelpful, since so many people use mysite.com instead of example.com in their posts.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

say what?

moshe weitzman's picture

the number one result in that search is is a link to your groups.drupal.org group and the snippit explicitly says "mysite module". i'd say that this pretty well answers the poster's question.

i posted a search URL instead of answering the question because I think it is inconsiderate/lazy to trouble approx 113 people ((the number of subscribers of this group) with a question that can be answered on your own in 10 seconds. these questions were needed in the pre-goole era, but not longer.

True; sorry

agentrickard's picture

You're right. I was just amazed that the rest of the Google results were weak -- they link to the group, but not the project page. My demo site doesn't appear. The API isn't there, etc.

Now a search on g.d.o works great.....

I agree, however, that newer users have a duty to educate themselves on what exists.

My original error was assuming that people knew what my project was, simply because it's been around for awhile and I've spoken about it at both DrupalCON Sunnyvale and DrupalCON Barcelona.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

how many sites use MySite?

Alex UA's picture

I haven't tooled around with the module yet, and I probably will soon, but your thinking is a little odd from my perspective. Not everyone has attended a DrupalCON, nor have many (as far as I can tell) moved to MySite as a SocNet solution. Thinking in that way isn't going to get more people to adopt MySite, though actually linking to the project might (it seems to offer a lot of great tools that I'm interested in giving a go).

And I answered this through the community group, not the MySite group, which seems a little ironic given the back and forth here.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

Dunno

agentrickard's picture

On the last download stats that I saw, the module was in the top 50, but we don't have any numbers on usage.

Yes, I should've included links in the original cross-post (which went to 4 groups), but I assumed that people interested in these topics would be familiar with the project, since it has been around for a while, as have I.

I don't, however, think that it's unreasonable to expect newer Drupal users to familiarize themselves with current projects, which is where Moshe is coming from. People joining a community need to adapt themselves to that community; laziness in this regard won't cut it, and neither will criticizing other users.

So let's drop this part of the thread, please.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

Moshe- get over yourself.

Alex UA's picture

No, really.

You seem like a nice enough guy, and you definitely do some amazing work, but you really sound like a jerk. Look how much time you spent displaying your "superior intellect" instead of simply saying "it's a drupal module". I did search for MySite, though I left out Drupal. But let me ask you this: if you just joined a group dedicated to social networking sites, and you saw two social networking tools mentioned in a short post with little in the way of description, with the first being an external application, why would you assume that the second was a Drupal specific module? I've worked extensively with social networking sites (mostly using them for political outreach and engagement) and I had never heard of the module, so whatever, sue me.

I'm also of the mind that if you're writing a post that's asking for help with something, you should do the explaining. You talk about lazy, but why should I care more about this than the 1000 other things going on/being discussed in these groups? As I said, I did search for MySite, btw, and didn't find anything useful within the first 20 seconds, so I asked here. And you answered, albeit in a really bratty way, but you could have just as easily ignored my post, instead of starting this whole, fairly ridiculous, exchange.

Thanks for all your contributions to Drupal (esp the MFA related contributions), and sorry if my silly little mind doesn't understand these here search thingies. I'm trying to get smarter, I promise, but it's hard work, and I'm really, really lazy.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

Google Searches

Ntoronto's picture

Yes, unfortunately Google isn't much help due to the large number of people using "mysite.com" to refer to their web site.
(I have found that searching for: Drupal +"mysite module" returns more accurate results.)

Any consideration of changing the name of the module to something unique? This would greatly help when trying to search for information on the module using Google.

Some possible alternative names:

MyDrupalSite
DrupalMySite
Drupal.mysite
Etc.

Sorry

agentrickard's picture

Yeah, Google aside, I goofed on the cross post. See:

The group
-- http://groups.drupal.org/mysite

The project
-- http://drupal.org/project/mysite

The demo
-- http://therickards.com/mysite/demo

The documentation
-- http://therickards.com/api

That aside, I get a little touchy about people getting hyped about FaceBook integration. The MySite project has been ongoing for over a year. FB integration just started in Drupal, and no one (seems to have) bothered to look at the functionality that is already offered by existing modules.

There are two routes we could go:

-- Port FB apps into Drupal/MySite (which I don't believe FB allows).
-- Leverage the existing MySite framework to create FB-style apps within Drupal.

Pay special attention to the API for extending MySite content types, and to the Droplet concept.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

The purpose...

Alex UA's picture

There's something I'm missing here: would these apps be available in facebook, or are you saying they would just be like facebook apps?

The idea of creating little installable apps is a pretty good one, but I'm not really sure I understand what the point would be unless the site was highly visited. People develop apps for facebook because it currently has over 34 million users, and is the 8th ranked site in the world. Many orgs have to integrate their websites with their social networking efforts (very few orgs, and imo even fewer smart ones, try to make their own facebook like applications- instead they go to where people are), and more and more orgs are asking for easier ways to do this. And while MySite could potentially export content to Facebook, the Drupal for Facebook module already seems to do this (apparently- I haven't tried it yet).

But you may be right? Have you talked to the D4F module developer? I've sent him a message to see if he'd chime in...

BTW- there's something wrong with your demo site.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

I don't see a lot in common

Dave Cohen's picture

I don't see a lot in common between MySite's API and Facebook's. If I'm missing something, please correct me.

Facebook's "APIs" are really web services using XML over HTTP. When a Facebook Application page is being served up, Facebook's servers make a request of the App's server, and the App's server can invoke services on Facebook's servers. So, you could install a new Facebook App on your own server, right now, with no help from anyone at Facebook.

The MySite API, if I understand correctly, allows modules installed on the Drupal server to interact with the MySite module. If I want to install a MySite App on Ken's server, I have to say "Ken, here's a module. Install it and enable it, please." Then it runs on Ken's machine and I have no insight into who's using it, and things like that that I would know in the case of a Facebook App.

Right, but...

agentrickard's picture

This is correct, essentially, but misses the potential of what MySite does.

What I'm saying is that the framework for adding external applications to a user's collection already exists within the MySite module. You can also use it to feed your FB apps, since the mysite_display() and mysite_render() functions can abstract information published on your Drupal site for use elsewhere.

If people wanted the functionality to be able to plug external apps (like Facebook apps, or the mythical Orkut apps) into Drupal, it would be very simple to add this to the existing MySite structure. Let's do a Facebook theoretical. (Note, I have not looked at the FB API).

To register an app with FB, you would provide the app in a specified format: title, etc.

Writing a MySite plugin to register and make available external applications should be pretty simple, since the plugin API for MySite simply asks that certain data be formatted in a specific way. The only real hangup that I see is making sure those apps follow good security practice.

Now, if people just want FaceBook-like functionality in Drupal -- the ability to set user status, for example -- you could handle that in MySite in about 20-30 minutes of coding.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

More details

agentrickard's picture

Dave-

I've posted more complete info about using MySite with external apps at http://groups.drupal.org/node/6632.

The missing piece would be the 'dial home' to record usage stats, but that can be handled pretty easily as well.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

Wrong

agentrickard's picture

An error report of "something wrong" isn't at all helpful. Seems to be fine now. Sometimes the shared web host has db issues.

And Dave and I did spend a night out drinking in Barcelona, but we haven't discussed FB specifically.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

Right

Alex UA's picture

You're right, I should have been more specific: it's not working on either IE7 or Firefox on my Windows XP machine (I'm not having problems with any other sites)- the different areas of the page are crashing into each other, which could be css, stray div tags, etc.

Here's a shot from Firefox:
Only local images are allowed.

And here's one from IE:
Only local images are allowed.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

Issues

agentrickard's picture

I'd love to get some good Windows CSS debugging, since I'm on the Mac.

If you're able to help, please file an issue:

http://drupal.org/project/issues/mysite

Oddly, no one has ever reported a problem.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

Walt Esquivel's picture

...but the Pacman was fun!

I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.7 and I'm on a Windows XP notebook.

Walt Esquivel, MBA; MA; President, Wellness Corps; Captain, USMC (Veteran)
$50 Hosting Discount Helps Projects Needing Financing

Walt Esquivel, MBA; MA; President, Wellness Corps; Captain, USMC (Veteran)
$50 Hosting Discount Helps Projects Needing Financing

Come on Walt

agentrickard's picture

You know that a report of "having issues" doesn't help at all.

Issues do.

I develop exclusively on a Mac. In a full year since the first release of the module, no one has reported any issues with Windows-based browsers.

I suspect these are CSS-rendering inconsistencies that can easily be fixed by someone on a PC.

If you do dive into this issue, be sure to test on a variety of themes, as it may be caused by specific themes and by turning off the left and right regions.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

You should try out browsershots...

Alex UA's picture

I use it all the time when creating sites.

http://browsershots.org/

I usually stick to checking three or four browsers at a time, as it takes a while to render each. I find it odd that it works on Firefox for the Mac and not the PC, as I've never had that problem before (usually it's Opera vs. Firefox that gives me problems).

One "bug" that I can see right away with Firebug is that you have some of the styling applied directly to the div tags, instead of in the css file.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

The culprit

Alex UA's picture

Is this CSS tag:

div.mysite-third-width

mysite.css (line 31)

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

Still not really helping

agentrickard's picture

OPEN AN ISSUE.

There is no inline css in the code. There may be some dynamic classes added by the JS functions required for drag-and-drop. That's not a bug, it's a feature.

Pointing to line 31 tells me nothing about what's wrong with line 31.

Look, the beauty of Open Source is that, given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.

But if you don't follow the bug reporting procedure, you're just wasting time.

http://drupal.org/node/add/project_issue/mysite/bug

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

Wasting time...

Alex UA's picture

I've never seen someone submit a bug regarding the misdesign/build of someone's test site, which is what this seems to be (but then again I've never worked with a module that added in seemingly random attributes directly to html tags). If you think it's a bug with the module, and not the site build, than you should probably open a ticket, because I easily got it to work by manipulating that css variable.

Open source does not equal other people doing your work for you...

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

Hm.

AmyStephen's picture

Open source does not equal other people doing your work for you...
I don't know, Alex. Perhaps, it doesn't mean that but it certainly turns out that way for those of us fortunate enough to benefit from work freely offered, such as that offered by Ken. Perhaps showing respect for that work with a simple bug submission, as requested, might have been a more appropriate and helpful response.

If you prefer not to, though, I will do so. It seems a small price.

~~ Amy Stephen ~~
http://OpenSourceCommunity.org

You may be right...

Alex UA's picture

Again, I find this conversation ironic for a "community" thread, but I felt that the overall tone, to a very simple question on my part, was snotty and condescending (including Ken's response to me telling him that his site isn't working)... But- whatever, maybe my skin was too thin and I should have opened the ticket. Next time...

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

Tickets make the world go 'round :)

bonobo's picture

All kidding aside, using the issue queue is always appreciated -- right now, the main focus of a lot of people is on testing D6 to make sure that the next release is solid, strong, and bug-free -- for people doing a lot of dev work, the issue queue is what they use to focus the response on their modules. Between groups.drupal.org and the drupal forums, there is just too much information out there to keep track of things --

Also, fwiw, having a thick skin always helps -- within the Drupal community, you are working with a pretty busy group of people who are here for a variety of reasons, but most of us want to help -- and help as many folks as possible -- in our own way. Dealing with text-only "conversations" removes a lot of nuance from communication, and that can allow feelings to get bruised, when nothing negative was intended.

Cheers,

Bill


FunnyMonkey
Tools for Teachers

Copy of the issue response

bonobo's picture

at http://drupal.org/node/185429#comment-325358

I looked at three screens:

1. http://therickards.com/mysite -- a modified garland theme, fluid width, two columns, with no images that exceeded the column width, where everything looked fine

2. http://therickards.com/mysite/demo -- a theme that appeared to be fixed width, three columns, with pictures that exceeded the width of the average column, with overlaps occurring where pictures were larger than the average width -- the screenshot in this comment is what I saw as well, and it appeared that the left edge of the images was positioned correctly, but that the right edge overflowed into the other columns.

3. http://therickards.com/mysite/agentrickard -- a modified garland theme, fluid width, two columns, with no images that exceeded the column width, where everything looked fine

So, as I look at this, this feels like it has something to do with a fixed width theme vs a fluid width theme -- I'd be curious to see what http://therickards.com/mysite/demo looked like with the same theme as 1 and 3.

Cheers,

Bill


FunnyMonkey
Tools for Teachers

Issue opened

Walt Esquivel's picture

Here's the issue:
Odd-looking screen when viewing the MySite module with Firefox on a Windows machine

Ken, I see you develop exclusively on a Mac. You might want to test this on a Windows machine if you can't see the problem on your Mac.

Thanks for your work and good luck fixing this.

Walt Esquivel, MBA; MA; President, Wellness Corps; Captain, USMC (Veteran)
$50 Hosting Discount Helps Projects Needing Financing

Walt Esquivel, MBA; MA; President, Wellness Corps; Captain, USMC (Veteran)
$50 Hosting Discount Helps Projects Needing Financing

Thanks for opening the issue, and...

bonobo's picture

Hello, Walt,

Thanks for doing as Ken requested and opening an issue -- this guarantees that any bug (if indeed there is a bug) will get addressed more quickly.

RE: "You might want to test this on a Windows machine if you can't see the problem on your Mac." -- actually, no. Ken (who, btw, I only know by reputation) has done us all a favor by releasing the code out, and through his many contributions to the Drupal community, which go beyond more than simple lines of code. And by this I refer to his contributions in the forums, here in different groups on g.d.o, his mentoring of the feedapi Summer of Code project, etc.

Anyone who can write code can submit a patch. Anyone who can type can submit a bug report. Both are valid means of participating in an open source community. Ken has chosen to release this code back to the community, and he's not obligated to do anything else. As Ken is a responsible module maintainer, he is active in addressing needs that go above and beyond the call of module maintenance.

If we're on a PC, we can do that testing. Ken has written code that saves many people hours/days/weeks of time, and puts functionality in their reach that they would not be able to get otherwise. We can do a little testing -- it ain't gonna kill us.

Cheers,

Bill


FunnyMonkey
Tools for Teachers

Walt Esquivel's picture

Yes, Bill, I agree with your comments.

Keep up the good work, Ken. :) My comment regarding "You might want to test this on a Windows machine if you can't see the problem on your Mac." was merely a suggestion, and I certainly didn't expect you to actually go out and buy a Windows machine just to see what things look like. LOL. We'll be your eyes. :)

Walt Esquivel, MBA; MA; President, Wellness Corps; Captain, USMC (Veteran)
$50 Hosting Discount Helps Projects Needing Financing

Walt Esquivel, MBA; MA; President, Wellness Corps; Captain, USMC (Veteran)
$50 Hosting Discount Helps Projects Needing Financing

Bugs vs. User Errors

Alex UA's picture

I'm just curious though: should incorrectly set css variables be considered "bugs"? (And if so, is it really a module bug, as opposed to a browser compatibility problem, even if the module sets the css?) I did do some testing, told him what was causing the problem, and his response was "that's not helpful".

But overall I agree with your point, and believe in helping out as much as I can. Next time I'll try to ignore the tone and focus on the substance of the post...

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

Not set

agentrickard's picture

It turned out not to be a variable problem or an implementation problem. It was a problem with css overflow handling, which was easily fixed with Bill's and Walt's help.

In FF/Mac, overflow areas of css seem to automatically 'scroll.' In FF/IE on PC, that property has to be set. Adding one line to the mysite.css has corrected this problem.

As to attitude, I suggest you review your tone throughout this thread. I found the entire exchange excessively aggravating and your attitude dismissive, flippant, and rude.

You're an unknown to me, and you kept giving half-answers and not following procedure. I have more important tasks to attend to than tracking down a minor css bug that affects one small subset of users. (That subset being fixed-width three-column users, not PC users.)

If you intend to stick to Drupal, I think you'll realize that finding an issue tends to obligate you to helping correct it. Particularly since raising that issue in this thread was totally off-topic and inappropriate.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

Well said! I have been

RossyMole's picture

Well said! I have been watching this thread for sometime with a measure of angst and frustration , I whole heartedly agree with Ken.

Heh

Alex UA's picture

I should check my attitude on this thread? Did you miss the part where I was insulted for asking a simple question? How about the part where you used bold to "advise" me on how to address your broken site? Nah, none of that was rude, or flippant.

You asked what was wrong with your site. I answered. I also offered a bit of advice on how to check (i.e. using browsershots, a great site for checking for these exact types of css issues). You said that wasn't enough. I took the time to take screenshots, upload them to my site, and post them. I also dug into to the css to find which attribute was causing the problem, and gave that to you (the solution that you noted above). Your response was "OPEN AN ISSUE." (Maybe you're not aware that capping your words makes it seem like you are screaming, but for most people that is what it is) In other words, I did help you find it, you just chose to ignore me because I didn't do it the "right" way.

I may not have followed your "procedures" for how you'd like to troubleshoot your site (and as I noted above, next time I will), but you can't seem to see how your own behaviors (and the behaviors of others on the thread) violate "community procedures".

Good luck with your module, and good luck in life. I'm sure we can discuss it some time in person, as I'm sure our paths will cross.

Alex Urevick-Ackelsberg
ZivTech: Illuminating Technology

Let it go

bonobo's picture

Seriously.

This is waaay past the point of productive.

And yes, I am done on this thread.


FunnyMonkey
Tools for Teachers

Alex - you killed a

AmyStephen's picture

Alex - you killed a discussion I very much wanted to hear. I guess I'm done, too. Sad, considering this was the very first thread I tried to participate in with Drupal. Email me AmyStephen@gmail.com - there are a couple things I'd like to share with you.

~~ Amy Stephen ~~
http://OpenSourceCommunity.org

Amy - please keep posting

Walt Esquivel's picture

I'm sorry about your experience on this thread. Please don't be discouraged.

I very much enjoyed reading your comments. For example, the following quote of yours is very interesting and I'd like to hear your thoughts on both short and long term trends with regard to social networks:

But, in the short run, many businesses will want a Facebook presence, and a MySpace and a Orkut and a LinkedIn presence, maybe for different audiences and styles and purposes.

Please, if you have anything to add, go ahead and add your thoughts to a new thread so as to not hijack this one and to have a clean slate. My hunch is that you've gained an audience based on your strong writing skills and your excellent subject matter knowledge of social networks. I, for one, would like to hear and learn more.

Walt Esquivel, MBA; MA; President, Wellness Corps; Captain, USMC (Veteran)
$50 Hosting Discount Helps Projects Needing Financing

Walt Esquivel, MBA; MA; President, Wellness Corps; Captain, USMC (Veteran)
$50 Hosting Discount Helps Projects Needing Financing

Try removing the embedded

AmyStephen's picture

Try removing the embedded objects and I am guessing it will clear up, immediately. I do that all the time.

~~ Amy Stephen ~~
http://OpenSourceCommunity.org

As in, the Flash objects

agentrickard's picture

As in, the Flash objects embedded by the Google Gadgets JavaScript?

Sounds like a Google / Flash problem, not a module problem.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

Yes, I suspect it is the

AmyStephen's picture

Yes, I suspect it is the Google Gadgets Javascript. Pull it off your page and let us look, again.

I post a lot of videos, slideshows, etc., and it's not uncommon that I have to adjust the Javascript to prevent that from happening. Blip.tv videos, for example, now cause the page to break apart. I have learned to remove the parameters code and the problem disappears.

I am nearly certain this is not a module issue, which could explain why you have not heard complaints earlier. Was this added more recently?

Anyway, worth a try!

~~ Amy Stephen ~~
http://OpenSourceCommunity.org

No

agentrickard's picture

It's been around for awhile. The only issue that was filed concerned all the Google Gadgets loading the same code, regardless of the JavaScript in the Droplet.

http://drupal.org/node/170660

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

Wait for Orkut

AmyStephen's picture

You guys have no doubt heard this, already, but, by November 5, it is anticipated that Google will cut loose an API for Orkut. Orkut is already doing very well in Asia (Japan, China and India) and South America, surpassing both Facebook and MySpace in many metrics. Google has this admirable quality of having this "nothing going on here" approach and then nailing a market. It is anticipated that Orkut is going to give social networking in US/Europe a run for the advertising money.

http://www.orkut.com/Home.aspx --> Yes, that's a .NET app. ;-)

One key difference with Orkut that might work very nicely with your code base, Ken, is that it is reported that Orkut apps will be able to run outside of the social network. Some think that's intentional to allow these Google apps to also run inside of other social networking spaces and drive traffic back to Orkut.

If this is true, architecturally, you might have something important already started if you can build something that runs for Google and Facebook at the same time. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that the apps that make it will run cross "social network" platform.

Anyway, some ideas to think about...

~~ Amy Stephen ~~
http://OpenSourceCommunity.org

Sounds like Google

agentrickard's picture

Running apps outside of Orkut would be in line with the Google philosophy.

MySite already works with Google Gadgets.

Orkut, when it launched, was a little ahead of the curve and didn't have a clear focus. I have been using LinkedIn instead of Facebook, since it's clear to me what the purpose of LinkedIn is: connect for business. FB, until recently seems very much like MySpace to me -- a place to waste time. But I'm a convert now.

I wonder if my very old Orkut account still works....

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

I see these social networks

AmyStephen's picture

I see these social networks as a temporary wireframes for the semantic web. I'm not certain what will even become of websites. And, I am not certain how quick it will be, either. I think Flock is visioning best on the end user access that will eventually take place. They'll look at our data - not our sites.

In the interim, I suspect the apps that will have the most leverage will be those that make data portable that is not yet fluid so that it can be used between these environments. So, friend lists, blog posts, events, calendaring, etc., all need to be "Flickr-ized" or "YouTubed" so that the data is stored outside of the network and consumable in all places. Other necessary tools will be virtual databases that allow you to integrate your data and set permissions and access rights and back it up and move it to another service provider.

Microformats are upon us. If you don't have it already, install Operator, Firefox's add-on. FF 3.0 will be Microformat ready. Berners-Lee's vision of the semantic web is coming into form and websites and social networks will be gone when data flows. We'll have devices for access what we want when we want it.

But, in the short run, many businesses will want a Facebook presence, and a MySpace and a Orkut and a LinkedIn presence, maybe for different audiences and styles and purposes. The central website, like yours, should get data Microformat ready and figure out how to move it using common tools so that it's easier to hit these moving targets until things stabilize a bit. All of the collected information will be used for reputation management to gain insight into customers and trends and perceptions.

~~ Amy Stephen ~~
http://OpenSourceCommunity.org

I find this fascinating, Amy

sambtaylor's picture

and I'd love it if you'd say a little more. Do you foresee all websites becoming obsolete or only generic broad-population social networks? In that case, I certainly see no reason to have all these different generic social networks; what you are proposing makes far more sense. But, what about smaller social networks targeted to serving and uniting niche populations? And do you think Blogs and other websites will also become obsolete? Don't users like visiting different sites with different designs?

It's just evolving

AmyStephen's picture

As with everything else, this will continue to evolve, is my point. The SNs are consuming a huge number of websites, already, and, at the same time, are giving others a first-time web presence. SaaS solutions are continuing to emerge, consuming more websites in the process. The staggering levels of participation in SNing is pushing classification of data into useable form and eventually, the need for SN's as we know it today will disappear because data will be fluid and coded for relationships and access and identity.

Your point about people enjoying site visits and beautiful designs is a good one. Certainly, that will help shape the future.

The take home message from all of this is to aim efforts towards Berners-Lee's vision on the semantic web. Today, it's a smart first step to utilize Microformats, for types of data that a standard is available (or proposed) and to watch this industry closely. RDF? More Microformats?

Yesterday, I watched a very interesting interview with Mark Zuckerberg that brushes on many of these changes and how he is positioning Facebook. His discussion of the social graph gets at the heart of this. But, watch how Facebook can offer no promises to third party devs. (Which makes some sense since we have no idea where it's all heading but, make no mistake, it's also for strategic business positioning.)

Then, look at this Plaxo video for an example of a company that is positioning as an Online Identity Consolidator in the SN space. Pay close attention to the "battle" they are having getting the end user data in the SN's opened up. Consider Zuckerberg's response to the question of opening access to end user data to make it more portable in his interview.

So, why the fuss?

My point - in an attempt to bring this back on topic - the "container" will not be nearly as important as the data; and, efforts to target a specific social network could end up being wasted, instead, think broadly about all SNs. We are seeing yet another enormous change in our industry and it is impossible to accurately predict where it will end up but, one thing is certain, it's about the data. It is not about the website or the SN.

Probably should open another thread for this to continue discussing. My real point was to interject the need for considering the bigger picture and that I see MySite as a possible solution to providing a good Drupal solution to feeding all of the various networks.

~~ Amy Stephen ~~
http://OpenSourceCommunity.org

Content Abstraction

agentrickard's picture

One of the session we had in Barcelona was about unified content abstraction, so that modules like MySite and Panels had an underlying 'feeder' system for ripping content in new contexts.

Such a system would also work to feed FaceBook apps or Google Gadgets.

We haven't made much progress towards a standard. But the mysite_render() and mysite_display() functions will let you export Drupal content in different ways.

--
http://ken.therickards.com/
http://savannahnow.com/user/2
http://blufftontoday.com/user/3

MySite and the Facebook app module

mlncn's picture

Hi Ken, your work was greatly admired at the Online News Association conference the past several days in Toronto!

Wouldn't the natural goal of MySite and the Facebook application builder be for Drupal-based Facebook apps to also work in MySite? That is, my site (that is, a site I have over here) can run a Drupal Facebook application and have it show up in your site (which is running MySite).

That seems a more immediate target than a unified Drupal approach to content (not that this wouldn't be wonderful).

UPDATE: This is what you said originally, which I lost in the meantime. So let this post stand just as a vote to bring the conversation back in this direction, toward a "social network" API for applications to run on Facebook or MySite.

As for web sites being replaced by social networks being replaced by the semantic web, it has bothered me even as a web developer, working with open source free software nonetheless, that good web sites are expensive. I am all for more effective and less expensive ways to communicate (and take collective action and overthrow the oppressor, but that's not the current point)-- the question we have to ask at each step, as with the shift to cell phones, is who ends up with control? And what can we do to make sure the answer is everybody, and not the shareholders of corporation X?

~ ben melançon

member, Agaric Design Collective
http://AgaricDesign.com - "Open Source Web Development"

benjamin, agaric

Sorry to interupt

Ambassador7's picture

Hey guys, I am sorry for posting something off topic...I just can't seem to find the right place to post. I am very new to Drupal and I was wondering if someone could steer me in the right direction. The past week or so I have been cramming in tutorials and I have been learning a lot. I have been trying to figure out how to create a community-based site using drupal. I really like www.Godtube.com so I thought I might try to use a similar concept.

The site would be a site for gamers. It would consist of player profiles and groups/clan profiles. I am not expecting anything crazy, just somthing simple like the "Ministry" layout at Godtube. After registering and receiving a player profile, player profiles would go right to the "free agent" page. From there, players would have the option to create a clan profile or join an already existing clan profile. I am wanting to have each new user profile attach itself as a thumbnail pic to a page...and when they join a group, they would move to that group's page. I know this has to be possible with drupal, but I just can't figure out how to set it up. I have been racking my brain and can't figure it out.

Is this possible? I would really appreciate someone's help and advice.

Yes, off topic, but...

cwgordon7's picture

look into organic groups. That's what powers groups.drupal.org, and it would be of some help to you.

Thank you so much.

Ambassador7's picture

Thank you so much.

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