DrupalDojo.com and "social network"

add1sun's picture

It seems like we have come up to a major difference of opinion in the 2.0 implementation of Dojo 2.0. Some folks feel that dd.com should become a "social networking" site, while others feel not. An issue was started in the issue queue (http://drupal.org/node/207006) but I feel this is really a meta discussion that we need to hammer out in the Dojo group so it doesn't derail us.

One phrase that has been tossed out there for dd.com is "a social network for drupal wannabes" but I feel that the Drupal community is the social network for drupal wannabes and making some distinction for the Dojo that requires a totally different infrastructure/website for that aspect is detrimental to the Dojo and the larger community. The best way to succeed with Drupal is to plug directly in to the Drupal community.

I feel that much of what Josh discussed "back in the day" regarding using dd.com for lesson delivery and organization and using g.d.o for the community still is the best plan overall. I also think that focusing on that core functionality for dd.com is key to getting things done. Getting the website up and getting solid video needs taken care of will require a lot of resources as is. We need to start with workable, high priority chunks of functionality. Then once we have that covered we can look at how the site is used, what demands of the Dojo are not being met and then decide if/what a second phase of the site would be.

Basically I'm saying that social networking on dd.com is out of scope for Dojo 2.0. The larger Drupal community is a community and works very well with the existing sites. I think if we want improvements there, then we should work on d.o and g.d.o improvements. At the end of the day a community and "social network" is people not the cool modules you can install. At this point I'm inclined to mark all "social networking" features for the Dojo 2.0 website to either "nice to have" or "no" following the guidelines in http://groups.drupal.org/node/7954.

So those are my thoughts and I'm tossing this open for discussion.

Comments

word.

benovic's picture

i think you are 99% right. the network behind drupal is *.drupal.org (and Forums in other languages).

concentrate on good material that easy to find, provide good stuff, support the existing drupal community. thats the way.

dojo.drupal.org

Discontinuing Discontinuity

mpare's picture

What are the main complaints of newcomers to the drupal community besides "Drupal's too hard." I've heard many negative and positive comments but the one that stands out in my head is "I can't find anything." Personally, I don't think that we should continue this thread of scattered information.

When I use to work in broadcast television we use to hire these outrageously expensive research groups to help us focus our brand and to target our market audience. While the dojo does not have the resources available we can take advantage of the general principles. One of the biggest things is, "Why do your viewers watch your station." In our case it was Weather. In the dojo, its the tutorials and more specifically the video tutorials. In that since I say we should really focus as what our users expect from us. Creating additional forums and community will only clutter things and its success as a community is probably limited. I expect that only more cries for support would arise from a community. Regardless, I think we should focus our attention to our content, the videos.

Actually I think the planning for Dojo 2.0 is a bit premature. We've already accomplished the most difficult task for a new organization and website, finding our niche. I think we have found our niche in video tutorials and due to the lack of general participation on the development site I think we should at least consider the entire overhaul of drupal dojo and instead devote a good while to high quality video productions, move away from the live session phenomenon and towards the delivery of content. dd.com could temporarily take the position of a video delivery splash page containing nothing more than tutorials and specifically video tutorials. This means that we no longer announce dojo lessons, instead we produce 3-4 tutorials while we are doing what we are currently doing. These 3-4 tutorials will receive the most attention from any tutorial we have ever done. THey will be of quality that makes twit.tv and other hi-quality produced shows shudder. These 3-4 tutorials will create a back log. Now we have a 4 week pad. We release one tutorial a week on Friday morning, that way our viewers will have time over the entire weekend to view these tutorials, comment and increase the information available. We should have comments for each tutorial on dd.com and hopefully include the pdf "cheat sheet" I discussed in the issue cue. Now we can focus an entire week's time to producing one tutorial and our viewers will know that they can get it on Friday night. Incase something goes wrong, we have 3-4 that we can just pull out of a hat. Any time a deficit is created we need to pull some OT and get it caught back up to the 3-4 week buffer.

Following this plan we will have reliable content. Once we have overcome the many hurdles with doing the above mentioned strategy we can resume our additional planning for Dojo 2.0, infact the planning should continue during this process so that there will be ample time for refinement of ideas. Now we meet our immediate user's needs and hopefully grow the dojo. By growing the dojo hopefully other resources and volunteers will become available. Our website can be crap if our content is good.

So your asking, "What about the live sessions." So I've heard these live sessions are really cool and I've been to a great number of them. But how many truly beneficial questions arise? Most of the time the question is, "Can you pastebin that? Pastebin? Pastebin?" What good does that do anyone? When real questions do arise most of them will be answered if people just wait until the lessons conclusion. So what happens to live sessions? We make them into special events, highly publicized events that may only happen once every 1-2 months. Then people will bring there big questions, once that truly deserve attention. It could be like what television shows like "Myth Busters" do, where once in a blue moon they do a "revisited" episode where they take user responses to flaws, inaccuracy's, etc... into account and resolve, answer, and test the purposed issues. Now the live sessions become valuable again, we gain public appeal, and we are pumping out extremely high quality material while simultaneously resolving some of our infrastructure issues by just not having to deal with them.

I know we've spent several weeks now gathering feature requests, don't worry those won't go to waste and now we can refine them. This is probably considered a radical approach but I really think that its beneficial to our users and is within our current potential.

Please let me know what yall think, comment, reply and keep me responsible.

Peace,

-mpare

Pare Technologies
Drupal Consulting, Themeing, and Module Development
806.781.8324 | 806.733.3025
www.paretech.com

Figure Something Out? Document Your Success!

Peace,

-mpare

Pare Technologies
Drupal Consulting, Themeing, and Module Development
806.781.8324 | 806.733.3025
www.paretech.com

Figure Something Out? Document Your Success!

Newbie point of view

2ndmile's picture

I am new in these parts and new to drupal in general but I have to agree with mpare. I have watched a few of the screencasts and while I have picked up some things from them, typically I get lost because of the questions that come out of left field during the live sessions. I also get confused (no offense) when the instructor tries something that fails and then has to find their mistake. In a way it makes me feel good because I find out that even the instructor gets lost sometimes and then I see how they find their way again. But when I am following along and then have to do it a different way my newb brain gets its signals crossed.

By not doing "live" sessions you would have a lot more control and be able to stop and look something up if needed without doing so on-the-fly. Shorter lessons about more focused topics would be great.

Just my .02

Also, I am a videographer full-time so if I can be of any help in that area, I would be willing to give back.

Where am I?

I didn't mean to get this post off topic.

mpare's picture

I didn't mean to get this post off topic and I probably should have started a new thread. Ideas and thoughts were just coming to me and though they started off on topic they quickly changed. The issue cue is not very exposed and with in the last two hours this thread has received more comments then my previous posts have in the issue cue. If this is something people are interested in or if the ideas stated in my previous comment should be expanded, please post a comment and I shall start a new thread.

Peace,

-mpare

Pare Technologies
Drupal Consulting, Themeing, and Module Development
806.781.8324 | 806.733.3025
www.paretech.com

Figure Something Out? Document Your Success!

Peace,

-mpare

Pare Technologies
Drupal Consulting, Themeing, and Module Development
806.781.8324 | 806.733.3025
www.paretech.com

Figure Something Out? Document Your Success!

mpare, I agree that taking

add1sun's picture

mpare, I agree that taking care of the basic needs is the first stab at the dd.com. I don't think the planning is premature because it needs to happen now so we can eventually get something done. ;-) That said I think it is good idea to have a stage 1, bare-bones site. I also really don't want all of the website talk to over-shadow the video issues in the queue, as I agree that the videos that we provide are the core focus of Dojo and plenty of work needs to continue there regardless of the website status.

Perhaps we should make another thread to discuss the best way to focus on the product (quality videos) while we monkey with website planning. I like your suggestion for focused lessons that get recorded and released. The main reason is because our live lessons, while useful (and I really hope we can get them running) are basically a mess due to the tech issues we constantly have. It ends up wasting a lot of time, frustrating people and discouraging folks. Steady, produced videos will give us a more controlled environment to work with and lend more to the much needed concept of a "stable" Dojo.

Learn Drupal online at Drupalize.me

I agree

magdelaine's picture

I have not been active in the dd 2.0 discussion thus far but as someone who used the dojo from within the first few weeks of its creation I have to agree with Addie. g.d.o. functions very adequately as a social/discussion/networking platform and adding this to dd.com would probably not add anything of note and would likely dilute the dojo g.d.o community effectiveness. Redundancy is not always a good thing.

learn one, teach one, do one

Think we better define 'social networking features'

gusaus's picture

I'm not really sure how weight we should put on "social network for drupal wannabes" and think we should differentiate between ideas about 'bookmarking and user profiles' as a means for sorting, filtering, and recommendation. (some good ideas here - http://drupal.org/node/205683).

Gus Austin
PepperAlley Productions

Gus Austin

DD.com as a social network =

Wim Leers's picture

DD.com as a social network = community split. Or at the least, you have to leave one community for another (d.o) when you've grown your Drupal skills. So I'm definitely with Addie here. That said, it may be good to have more functionality at d.o to let new Drupal users "connect" and share their knowledge as they learn.

Can we please rid ourselves of the term Social Network??

gusaus's picture

Can we please rid ourselves of the term Social Network?? There's such a wide range of things that could be -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_network_service

We don't want to split the community - I don't think we should have blogs, forums, or really anything in which we're creating content 'unique' to the dojo (except for learning materials)

Features like 'social bookmarking and even user profiles' are powerful tools for sorting, filtering, and recommendation. This is a pretty good example of what folks would call a social network - has user profiles - yet people aren't creating 'original content' - http://www.digg.com/

Gus Austin
PepperAlley Productions

Gus Austin

I definitely think the term

brenda003's picture

I definitely think the term "social network" is adding additional ruckus about all of this. As I stated in the other issue, I see the Dojo as a place to learn, teach, for people wanting to climb the Drupal ladder to know easier how to get there. While I don't like the idea of forums, user profiles, or other "social" aspects, with the fear of splitting the community in mind, I do think things like the "bookmarks" or repo for various resources is a great idea.

The dojo should be a central place to get tutorials, lessons, links to other resources, etc., for aspiring developers, themers, and contributors.

Drupal Dojo

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