Posted by Tresler on January 5, 2007 at 3:22am
So, we just had the first lesson and it was a truly formidable event. A lot of people had their eyes opened to some neat new things (I know I did) and some people couldn't get the webhuddle running.
What went right?
What went wrong?
What do we need to do to follow up on the first lesson?
The IRC is rollicking with hundreds of good ideas. Put them here so we can aggregate them and build from them.
Comments
And I'll kick it off.
Good
Looking over Josh's shoulder REALLY helped. He kept saying he should have prepared more, and I kept thing, God No! I need to see how you got to this as much as I see you doing this. It also gave me time to absorb what I was seeing.
Backchannel Help. Chx and Zacker both himed in and helped when I had questions and that was great. It didn't take away from the flow and yet I know other people had the same questions.
Less Good
Chatter - I was guilty of this too, but it would be easier to follow the IRC without the chatter.
Three apps to do this wasn't too many - but I think we need to make it lear that all three are essential to get the full benefit of the lesson. Too many people were cut out of the loop.
Where to go
If someone starts a wiki with logs, etc, I'll write it up... ...
Tresler Designs
CNDP, LLC
in a perfect world...
...this should be all wrapped up in a comprehensive drupal module. there should be a drupal netmeeting module and helper modules for screencasts, skypecast integration, collaborative whiteboard, chat.. etc...
after the event there should be an archive of what happened with video, chatlogs, audio, code examples.. etc...
its big but drupal is about community...
this is where the web is heading.
community>content
ryan
www.thefractal.org
WIth you on that...
Tresler: I agree that looking over josh's shoulder helps. He's fast enough as it is - if he had everything prepared we would have been in real trouble :)
I really liked the three apps that were used: webhuddle, skype and irc. Personally, I didn't use IRC (no client installed at the moment), but with Webhuddle I could see some of what was going on there. Skype is a definite must and should be made essential for future lessons. Oh, yes, posting the code to http://pastebin.ca really helps too.
Thanks again, Josh, for getting this going. Hopefully it gets momentum and becomes a regular thing.
I tried to keep up posting
I tried to keep up posting the codes to pastebin in the irc channel, although josh was really fast sometimes :)
Thanks for that!
In the future I will try to have my "example code" pre-written and pasted somewhere. You really helped out by doing that.
http://www.chapterthreellc.com | http://www.outlandishjosh.com
https://pantheon.io | http://www.chapterthree.com | https://www.outlandishjosh.com
Don't forget
A REALLY important part of learning coding is problem solving, Josh. Watching you solve things on the fly, told us how to solve our own problems If you have it all neatly done and plotted ahead of time, we lose that benefit.
Am I the only one that feels this way. You didn't encounter any problem that held you up longer then 2 minutes.... Most of us take hours a day learning how to solve our drupal problems, cause we don't know what you know instinctively.
Tresler Designs
CNDP, LLC
I couldn't agree more
Seeing how to solve a problem is even more important than the solution.
Couldn't agree more
That's actually one of the strong points of the lesson.
Victor Kane
http://awebfactory.com.ar
Victor Kane
http://awebfactory.com
"Looking over Josh's
"Looking over Josh's shoulder REALLY helped." -- can't agree more! Chx/Zacker and other's comment/anserwing was really helpful too!
Thanks all the guys helped on setting up skype/webhuddle and helping in IRC channel. We need more hands and a bit better organized for the coming lessons.
Wish List:
1. Wish I learned about skype/webhuddle a bit earlier, but I was lucky to have them both working after 5 minutes into the lesson. Sorry for those got cut out...
2. Wish Josh had talked a bit slower and the overall pace could be slower if possible. Being a non-native-English speaker and relatively new to Drupal, I find it sometimes hard to follow and digest what's Josh is talking about ;(
3. Wish it'd be shorter...2 hours is a bit too long for me...can't get my mind straight at end of session and it's hard to allocate a full 2-hour time slot on a Thursday evening. If we could keep it covered in 1 hour it'd be ideal for me...well, maybe it's just me...
Looking forward to the wiki writeup and next dojo lesson!
(oh, in addition to the writeup, shall we have a dedicated post for after-class Q&A?)
Didn't get to attend, but...
As an 8-5 left coaster, I didn't have a chance to make it. Will definitely be taking a look at the transcripts and gleaning everything I can afterward, though.
Was the 2 hour window too long for most people? If so, what are the possibilities of having two separate one-hour sessions, one scheduled for EST and one for PST? Might be too much of a burden on Josh to MC both of them, but maybe there's another Drupal ninja out there who wouldn't mind stepping into the sensei role for the second half of a double-header?
Looking forward to catching all the post-game stuff, though. Can't say enough how brilliant of an idea I think this is and how excited I am to be here for the genesis (was going to say "first pitch," but I think I met my baseball metaphor quota a few sentences ago).
Personal: http://www.justinstanley.net
Nerdly: http://www.nerdliness.com
Great Class #1
Josh,
thank you
so much for your time and effort.
it was great to have such online class.
things we could improve
technically -
check vShow as screencast,
and someone said there's going to be an announcement in few weeks,
so maybe it can fund gotowebinar (up to 1000 attendees)
skypecast -
handled 53 people with no problem (100 is the limit)
things to do in the future -
(probably take a fair amount of upfront work to develop)
create ready-made short screencast,
make the code available for download
and a a written step-by-step document
so anyone can follow, if they fall behind somewhere
another cool thing we could do... set up one server with drupal multisites...
every student gets access to his own site,
and the instructor(s) - can check every student's code... if there's any issue
hopefully we can get every week a different 'drupal-celebrity' to help with special drupal subjects.
(we had the honor this time - to have chx on IRC)
hope to see you all (and more) next week!
~:)
Just Say No . . .
GoToWebinar limits who can play to only Windows or Mac, which leaves me and all the other *nix users out.
Good beginning ... but..
I had set up ahead of time to make sure I had the IRC up and running. There was so much chatter ahead of time about IRC, I stuck it out and made it happen. But at the last minute, I realized that I needed Skype, so I quickly set it up as the lesson began.... only to find out that I needed to see what Josh was doing as soon as he began typing like crazy.
I missed all of the web huddle to almost the end. I had to hunt down Java plug-ins for my ppc G4 Mac. If I had known that most of this was happening visually, I would have skipped the IRC set up entirely.
So making the required hook-ups clear will be a big help.
Also, we definitely need to let folks know about voice recordings, video recordings and if a screencast is coming in the lesson announcement.
And maybe more folks assisting josh or whomever is doing the heavy lifting like what happened tonight - awesome community support guys!
A good start, looking forward to the next lesson.
Katrina
--
www.ambereyes.net
A lot of windows
I wasn't able to catch the entire lesson, but I did try to catch the last little bit just to see how things were going. While I'm not able to comment on the quality of the material, my initial impression was that there might be too many windows to worry about. While skype doesn't really take a window, the browser, webhuddle, a terminal or text editor, and IRC all do. I intend to hook the dual monitors back up so I don't have to switch applications in the future, but I would be a bit concerned about somebody on something like a 12" laptop screen. Is there a more bundled approach to eliminate some of the clutter? If not, the current method certainly seems to work as I have no suggestions for other products, but if I think of something, I'll let you know.
Mixed thoughts
updated: Fixed the WebHuBBle type to WebHuDDle
From what little I was able to follow along, the CONTENT of the lesson seemed to be bang on.
However, due to some other issues, I really had problems following the lesson. The biggest issue that I can see is that this lesson was marketed as an IRC lesson. The First Lesson notification even mentioned IRC was needed, WebHuddle was optional, and Skype was recommended (though not required). Out of those, IRC was the ONLY thing I had working. WebHuddle failed for me due to Java problems. Skype failed to install properly for me until the third try, and even then I had no sound. IF I had know that WebHuddle AND Skype were REQUIRED, I could have taken some time beforehand to make it happen. But right up till the time the lesson started it was thought to be an IRC based lesson. As as it turns out, IRC was the optional part, but WebHuddle and Skype were absolutely required.
Due to these points, I was very late into seeing what was happening (got WebHubble working on my laptop, rather than my desktop). But without sound, even webhuddle was more or less just a moving picture. I tried to stick it out, and think I DID glean one or two things. But I really need to see the transcripts/replays before I can say how beneficial it was. As is I gave up half way through.
These are technical issues. Some of them were my own problems to deal with. However, the sudden change in plans left me, and others I'd imagine, out in the dark trying to make sense of things from IRC comments.
I mean no disrespect on Josh's efforts - god knows what it takes to do one of these things (I've done my own share of presentations). But hopefully we can learn from this and make the next one better.
My mistake
I definitely did mis-label it as "IRC is the only requirement." I've never done this before, and my idea of what might be possible in terms of talking and typing turned out to be way off.
I think the format of audio+IRC works; we'll definitely make that up-front for future lessons.
http://www.chapterthreellc.com | http://www.outlandishjosh.com
https://pantheon.io | http://www.chapterthree.com | https://www.outlandishjosh.com
Great first class
Looking over my IRC log (pasted on separate thread), what is absolutely clear is that it's all there. Everything of value from the class (including the pastebin code snippet links) is right there.
So even though I had WebHuddle and Skype going on my laptop, and even though Josh's voice helped one to keep focused, it was simply a master class, with code not working, then working, the drupal api consulted, Josh gave us all a rare privilege: he showed us how he works, and in the process he was eminently successful in showing us how to get beyond module mashups, he gave us a working inkling of how Drupal ticks.
The objectives of the class outline were met with completely and surpassed.
And we are left with tons of material to explore and take initiative on.
Josh was criticizing himself for not planning the presentation; but the pedagogical "confusional moment" was much more powerful than formal logic "clarity": had the presentation been a pristine Lullabot podcast (not knocking them, keep them coming!) we would have learnt only a fraction of what we learnt. Instead of dispensing us with glossy and "fun" sparkling tidbits, we got our teeth into a real master session.
In my opinion, it would have been better not to have had the Skype and WebBubble, in the end, along with us all butting in and flooding #drupal-dojo, it would have been a lot clearer. It would have looked slow, the course outline would slowly appear, bit by bit, along with API links, code snippets, demo urls... which we actually have, so check out the log at http://groups.drupal.org/node/2274 and you'll see, it's all there: the questions are all answered by practical code snippets - posted in Wiki Class Notes: Lesson #1.
Also remember, any of us can discuss, ask questions, go into, flesh out, all of the points. If anyone feels particularly prepared to do so, my suggestion would be (I believe Mark said something to this effect) schedule a mini-class of your own on #drupal-dojo to hammer home any of the points of the first lesson.
Victor Kane
http://awebfactory.com.ar
Victor Kane
http://awebfactory.com
Make it a two-person operation
Throughout the screencast, it seemed as though we were switching between your editor and the IRC channel at random intervals, which was kind of jarring. It would probably help to formalize a two-person team and the role each one will play.
What might work is if you have a primary presenter, who handles the screencast and the skypecast, and ignores the channel - unless he is interrupted by the secondary presenter, who would be monitoring the channel. This would also be the only other person with a voice on the skypecast. This way people can ask questions in the channel, and if the question can be addressed right away, the secondary will do that while the screencast and skypecast move right along. If someone is really stuck or a lot of people start asking the same question, the secondary can just interrupt the primary on Skype to ask for some clarification, or to slow down, or whatever.
Technically, I was a little disappointed in Webhuddle, which crashed a couple times. It's a shame that we need this error-prone 3-headed beast, webhuddle + skype + IRC, to get the full experience. WebEx is the only thing resembling a real leader in that space, and they suck horribly. It's unfortunate that there seems to be no free or open source alternative. I would love to see the people at Skype or 37signals figure out desktop sharing and render WebEx obsolete overnight.
Overall, even with the technical issues, I thought this was a really, really solid first effort guys. I can definitely say I learned a few things, and that's what's important. Nice one Josh.
Tech Stack
We'll get better, but it's important to remember that what we're doing here most definitely is pushing the envelope with what's possible online. You don't often hear this, but the cutting edge tends to be buggy. ;)
http://www.chapterthreellc.com | http://www.outlandishjosh.com
https://pantheon.io | http://www.chapterthree.com | https://www.outlandishjosh.com
What energy!
Based on the feedback, logs, and write-up coming out of the first lesson, I think even us who tried to get on but failed are electrified with its pace and goings-on. It helped me assess where this group is going and what form my 'apprenticeship' would take. I see myself as chewing it all slowly in the background and then writing actual code two or three weeks after a lesson. It will be more about learning the culture of Drupal developers and, perhaps after a year, be at a level that doesn't feel parasitic but more actively engaged in development. I think I can help with documentation but one has to know stuff well to write about it well so I hope you guys don't mind me hanging around and absorbing stuff at first.
Thank you all!
THANK YOU ALL!
This would not have been possible without your participation, and I'm honored by all the enthusiasm you bring to the group.
Don't hold back on criticism, but also don't get to frustrated. We're pushing the envelope here and these lesson events will get better as we work out a style and fix bugs in our process.
http://www.chapterthreellc.com | http://www.outlandishjosh.com
https://pantheon.io | http://www.chapterthree.com | https://www.outlandishjosh.com
Quite the whirlwind adventure
First off - huge thanks to Josh, the mentors, and all the others who are making this all happen. I believe this group (been up for just over a week!?!) is by far the most popular in sign-ups and traffic. Must be doing something right!
In terms of the lesson itself...a good portion was a personal exercise of technological futility. I think I got WebHuddle going about an hour in (although it promptly froze) - then finally got IRC to work (I believe my first words to the group were "I'm confused") - it was only when I got into the Skypecast (had issues updating the latest version of Skype on my Mac) did I get a sense for what was actually taking place (the lesson was wrapping up). I did stick around for some of the post game happenings on the IRC - I now see why lots of people find it quite useful and valuable. All in all, I appreciate y'all just winging it - as people are already taking the raw materials and mashing them up, I think there's still a ton of value to be had.
Personally I'd like to see if we could somehow branch off into more focused, project specific lessons (or dojos?). I'm looking at all the other Groups I've signed up on (ranging from biz/consulting/marketing, to more project based like modules/theming and distribution profiles) and could see each as a great class. It's almost like each group could have a dojo - or vice versa. Maybe there are ways to tie the two together using categories or tags?
I'm very curious to hear more feedback about where to go from here. T'was an awesome first step - can't wait to see what's next!
Gus Austin
Director of Chaos and Confusion
PepperAlley Productions
What am I trying to do with Drupal?
Gus Austin
Totally!
I think as we settle things out, there will be less "winging it." Like, next time we can really give people a better idea of how to prepare. I'm loving this group, and totally into doing this every week.
My prediction is that within a month or two we will have figured out a repeatable class "format" that can be exported to other groups (on drupal and elsewhere), so as long as there are people who self-identify as experts and other people who want to listen to them, this can proliferate like mad.
It's exciting!
http://www.chapterthreellc.com | http://www.outlandishjosh.com
https://pantheon.io | http://www.chapterthree.com | https://www.outlandishjosh.com
Some comments from an absentee attender . . .
I couldn't actually make it as I was dealing with a failed RAID array at the time. (For future reference, and if anybody takes a tally, I'll be more likely to be able to attend these events if they happen in the early AM of the PST TZ (like that heavy acronym use? :^)), like 6-ish.)
One comment (or maybe two) I wanted to make regarding the IRC chatter, is that the channel could be made a moderated channel where only people w/voice are allowed to chat, and some one person or three would be flagged with a PM to request the ability to speak. That would, of course, make davetrainer's two person idea a necessity (which I like anyway).
I had hoped that I would be able to follow along w/o actually having to attend all the events, as my busy schedule makes it difficult for me to attend evening classes. I am just now getting the time to read up on what has happened. Based on the comments, I really wish I didn't have the RAID array to deal with as I think I'm going to miss a lot by not being able to attend live, but I'll make the best of it and see how it goes.
Check the screencast
If you have an hour, try checking out the screencast. We're going to get better and better at these, but the first one isn't too bad. Also, check out Victor's amazing notes. While it's not the live "Drupal Dojo Experience," it's pretty friggin nice documentation.
http://www.chapterthreellc.com | http://www.outlandishjosh.com
https://pantheon.io | http://www.chapterthree.com | https://www.outlandishjosh.com
Comment about catching what was said
Well, I watched part of the screencast afterwards. Speaking for an average german, I gotta say: in the beginning, I hardly catched a word. Josh is mumbling away far to fast. And I have to accomodate to the american accent. This combined with an overall poor sound quality (hopefully it was better on the event) lets me get only about half of what is said. And I'm quite good at understanding english, so i f I think of someone less experienced... To encourage people from abroad, one plea to the main speaker: just speak a little bit slower, and everything is fine. ;)
Life is a journey, not a destination
sound quality is fine on lesson #1; pause button
a question came up in lesson #3 about whether the screencast has a pause button. Wim Leers said there is positively a pause button (next to play button) in lower left hand corner of screen. I can confirm I just used it many times to watch the 90 minute lesson.
the last 4 minutes had no sound and I could not figure out the example with taxonomy and theme that Josh was doing.
I could hear it fine on Windows. On Linux I could hear it fine after I turned the sound all the way up on some big speakers.
Like everyone else, the best part is watching Josh code. So I'm very glad he didn't prepare code.
Many thanks to Josh for these fantastic lessons.