Quickstart and Ubuntu 11.10 - Don't upgrade

MichaelCole's picture

Hello,

I've been trying to keep Quickstart versions in sync with Ubuntu's release cycle, and now that Ubuntu 11.10 is out, we're up for a new version.

The short version is, I don't recommend upgrading to 11.10, without making a snapshot you can roll-back to.

It may be some time before a major new version of Quickstart comes out. For newer users, I might download all the updates for the 1.0 version, and turn off the "Upgrade to 11.10" button and release it as version 1.1.

After upgrading my desktop to 11.10 and trying Gnome 3, Unity, and Gnome 2 (Gnome Classic) on Ubuntu 11.10, it's clear that Ubuntu's GUI is totally unusable for power users. Things like "min/max" buttons, Start menus, task bars, shortcut and notification bars are gone in Unity and Gnome 3. Ubuntu has been tooled for the most basic of users used to a smartphone interface. I wouldn't use this for a dev env, so I won't ask you to either :-)

Here's a rundown of what Ubuntu 11.10 ships with:
- Ubuntu's "Unity" is far to simple for a development environment
- Gnome 3 is also too simple, but with more polish. (Linus called it "crazy")
- Gnome 2 (which is what we're using now) is being discontinued, and after upgrading was broken.

So that leaves Quickstart in a bit of a twitch. There are some alternatives we can consider:
- Ubuntu with Gnome 3 - Plus alot of tweaking and pushing and pulling. This doesn't seem feasible. The Linux Mint distro was planning to extend Gnome 3 in future work.
- Kubuntu with KDE 4 - Linus abandoned this for Gnome 3, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
- Xubuntu with XFCE - (this is where Linus went). This is the most classic of the 3.
- Debian/Mint/distro-de-jour here - these will inevitably use Gnome, KDE, or XFCE

There is a center of gravity around Ubuntu that is nice. It's easy to find support and documentation. I'm going to start working with Kubuntu and Xubuntu and see what comes out of it. This is also a great opportunity to rework the install scripts in Puppet.

Anyways, there's alot in the works, and it will only get better from here :-)

Cheers,

Mike

Comments

Tried Lubuntu awhile back

Sean Buscay's picture

Hi Michael.

I tried Lubuntu awhile back https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu and liked its speed. I ran into trouble when installing QuickStart but I never really troubleshot why. I've actually gone back to 10.10 for now.

Really like Xubuntu 11.10

Sean Buscay's picture

Hello Michael.

I've tried Xubuntu 11.10 today. I really like it. The theming for it is nicer than just straight XFCE . It allows for a lot of task oriented customization.

I haven't installed quickstart on it yet, however, I'm thinking there should be no problem, as it is based on Ubuntu with just the different gui.

How's Xubuntu with Quickstart 1.0?

chopperbob's picture

At our next local Drupal meetup here in Brevard County, Florida, we have asked everyone to already have downloaded the Quickstart 1.0 and VirtualBox as per the instructions in Drupal Quickstart: Pre-made Development Environment. In preparation for this task, I have been researching about Quickstart and came upon Mike's post Quickstart and Ubuntu 11.10 - Don't upgrade where he doesn't recommend using Ubuntu 11.10, but mentions Xubuntu as being a better alternative. That brought me to your post, so I am wondering if you have installed Quickstart 1.0 on your Xubuntu 11.10, and if so, how did it go? Were there any issues? I would appreciate any tips on the installation of Quickstart 1.0 with Xubuntu 11.10, as I want to have this all ready to go before our next local meetup. Thanks

Not Debian?

jebbushell's picture

I think Ubuntu is heading in the retail user direction and I'm sure I don't want to go there. Next stop "My Documents". Ugh.

I am still a linux noob so perhaps someone would be kind enough to say why Debian is not a candidate? It seems to have a lot of cred.

.

Michelle's picture

I am on 11.10 and haven't noticed much difference... The min/max buttons are still there; you just have to hover to get to them. To be honest, I haven't use Ubuntu that much so that could be why I'm not noticing a lot of change but it doesn't seem all that different to me. Much of what I do with dev is at the command line, anyway, so the rest of the OS doesn't matter too much. :)

I decided to go dual-boot instead of using Quickstart because my little laptop struggled with the whole OS inside an OS concept but I'm thinking of putting Quickstart on my desktop so am still interested in its future.

Michelle


My blog, mostly about Drupal: Shell Multimedia

Can restore Gnome Classic Option in 11.10

Sean Buscay's picture

Came across this today:

http://www.upubuntu.com/2011/10/how-to-use-gnome-classic-on-ubuntu-1110....

There are some things I do like with Unity though they require a lot of CPU power. Adding Docky is nice.

A few other tweak notes if in Unity

Sean Buscay's picture

System Load Indicator

This applet will show what your CPU, memory, network and disk drives are doing. Hit the CTRL+ALT+T key combination and install indicator-multiload with the following commands:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:indicator-multiload/stable-daily

sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get install indicator-multiload

Add A Taskbar For Unity On Ubuntu 11.04/11.10

http://www.upubuntu.com/2011/10/add-taskbar-for-unity-on-ubuntu.html

Places Indicator Installation

http://www.upubuntu.com/2011/10/add-places-menu-to-top-panel-of-ubuntu.html

Mike, You could use this to add custom quickstart commands to the top bar

http://www.bheil.net/blog/2011/07/07/simplestarter-simple-application-st...

A Nice List of Unity Applets

http://askubuntu.com/questions/30334/list-of-application-indicators

--The Classic Menu Indicator adds the menus back and you can still edit the menus with main menu editor to add custom commands and apps.

Kubuntu gets my vote

bkudrle's picture

My vote would be for Kubuntu. But I have a bias as a Qt programmer, since KDE is written using Qt. Kubuntu has a pretty nice programming environment even apart from the Netbeans, Eclipse, etc. that is added in via Quickstart. And it seems like it has a pretty strong community.

Why not go back to LTS?

Sean Buscay's picture

Hi Michael.

Out of curiosity, since 10.04 is still LTS, why not just support LTS for use with QuickStart?

You could create a branch, leave your 11.04 version in place, and then go back to supporting 10.04. Then you can keep QuickStart moving forward until Unity or whatever else shakes out and becomes more usable.

niccolo's picture

I vote for Debian, and uniting with the BOA project http://groups.drupal.org/boa

imho, it still makes sense to try to harmonize with the very excellent open hosting platform BOA, from Omega8.cc

It installs a very wide range of platforms, i.e Drupal distro's that can be used as reference and as base profiles (the future of Drupal imho as budgets get smashed)

https://github.com/omega8cc/nginx-for-drupal/blob/master/README.txt

Acquia 6.22 (int) ------------ http://bit.ly/acquiadrupal
Acquia 7.9.8 ----------------- http://bit.ly/acquiadrupal
Acquia Commons 2.3 ----------- http://acquia.com/drupalcommons
CiviCRM 3.4.7 ---------------- http://civicrm.org
CiviCRM 4.0.7 ---------------- http://civicrm.org
Commerce Kickstart 1.0-rc4 --- http://drupalcommerce.org
Conference 1.0-beta2 --------- http://usecod.com
Drupal 5.23 Pressflow -------- http://pressflow.org
Drupal 6.22 Pressflow (int) -- http://pressflow.org
Drupal 7.9 ------------------- http://drupal.org/drupal-7.0
Feature Server --------------- http://bit.ly/fserver
Managing News 1.2 ------------ http://managingnews.com
NodeStream 1.0 --------------- http://nodestream.org
Open Atrium 1.0 -------------- http://openatrium.com
Open Enterprise 1.0-beta3 ---- http://leveltendesign.com/enterprise
OpenChurch 1.21 -------------- http://openchurchsite.com
OpenPublic 1.0-beta3 --------- http://openpublicapp.com
OpenScholar 2.0-beta11 ------- http://openscholar.harvard.edu
ProsePoint 0.40 6.22 --------- http://prosepoint.org
Ubercart 6.x-2.7 (int) ------- http://ubercart.org
Videola 1.0-alpha1 ----------- http://videola.tv

### PROVIDES

* All libraries & tools required to install and run Nginx based Aegir system.
* Latest release of MariaDB 5.2 or Percona 5.5 database server.
* Latest version of Nginx web server with upload progress and Boost support.
* PHP-FPM 5.2.17 with APC, memcached, uploadprogress, suhosin and ionCube.
* Maintenance & Auto-Healing scripts in /var/xdrago.
* Automated, rotated daily backups for all databases in /data/disk/arch/sql.
* MultiCore Apache Solr with Tomcat (optional).
* Redis and Memcached chained cache with DB auto-failover.
* Fast proxy DNS server (pdnsd) with permanent caching.
* Bind9 DNS server integrated with experimental Aegir DNS feature (optional).
* Webmin Control Panel (optional).
* Firewall csf/lfd integrated with Nginx abuse guard (optional).
* Chive database manager in "chive." subdomain (optional).
* SQL Buddy database manager in "sqlbuddy." subdomain (optional).
* Collectd server monitor in "cgp." subdomain (optional).
* Limited shell and FTPS separate accounts per Octopus instance.

also, the key Aegir people, mig5 and anarcat are Debian users, Anarcat has just become an official Debian Developer

thing is, its all about Dev Ops, being a developer AND a operations person, especially when you are making small-medium sized sites, not everyone can afford Pantheon or Acquia Dev Cloud and want something more than a App Installer courtesy of Godaddy

there is now a BOA VirtualBox - VBOA 4 that has these installed
http://groups.drupal.org/node/160449#comment-642763

if Ubuntu is the next Microsoft Windows Experience than I'm heading a bit further upstream and will tool-up on Debian, and judging by the latest performance tests, Debian is a better bet than even Xubuntu

ps: have just tried to install the Quickstart scripts direct onto Xubuntu - haven't quite got there yet, but most of it should just work - minus Gnome and Ubuntu fat - although on Xubuntu the reboots dont happen ...

cheers

if Ubuntu is the next

Jamie Holly's picture

if Ubuntu is the next Microsoft Windows Experience than I'm heading a bit further upstream and will tool-up on Debian, and judging by the latest performance tests, Debian is a better bet than even Xubuntu

I agree and disagree. I don't see Ubuntu becoming the next Microsoft Windows Experience. Actually Ubuntu has been losing a lot of shares lately, as people are switching to Mint, which is still Debian (with a lot of Ubuntu in it). I actually got Mint on a VPS and must say it is really nice, even though I'm still a Fedora guy through and through.

Gearing everything towards being as "generic" Debian as possible would most likely be the best route to take. It might be a little more complex though and the better alternative might be a generic package that installs Drupal, then a more distro specific dependency that handles the binaries.


HollyIT - Grab the Netbeans Drupal Development Tool at GitHub.

Not PHP 5.3.x?

shiva7663's picture

"PHP-FPM 5.2.17"

Not PHP 5.3.x? Hmmm....

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