PCI-DSS changes

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dkeays's picture

Does anybody know what's going on at Visa? There are some discussions in the Ubercart world, but it is all speculation right now.

Comments

Chris Charlton's picture

I overheard from a client there may be some upcoming Credit Card changes that would affect all cart checkout forms by adding yet another "secret code/word" field but there'd be some more apparent validation through the card issuer possibly reducing the overall customization of a site's checkout process.

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

A new secret is news to me

dkeays's picture

Thanks, sorry about the delay. I'm having problems posting on many Drupal forums.

A new secret is news to me. I had heard/read talk about possibly requiring certification, blacklisting all those carts who done get one in the next couple months, requiring 3rd party security audits on a regular basis, and such.

Some people at ubercart.org are claiming this will be the end of ubercart. It looks to me like all open source carts are in the same basket.

independent developer

* double post, sorry *

dkeays's picture
  • double post, sorry *

independent developer

I'm guessing you are talking

Sid_M's picture

I'm guessing you are talking about the new PCI DSS rules which visa is pushing. If so, I started a thread about this on the Ubercart forums. As I say in that thread, I am not an expert on this. However, I do provide some links to information which I think is useful in trying to get a handle on this issue.

Just to give people a sense of the overall topic: Visa is pushing to require that all online payment systems go through a certification process, and are moving toward prohibiting use of non-certified payment systems. Visa has said that this is going to take effect on July 1 of this year, although at least one person has claimed that the deadline has been pushed until next year. So, yes, there is quite a bit of confusion surrounding this topic.

I would include the URL for the post on Ubercart, but this site's spam filter blocks it. This link takes you to search results where if you click on the link with July 1, 2010 in the title, you'll get to the post: http://www.ubercart.org/search/apachesolr_search/blacklist

Yes, I read your post.

dkeays's picture

Yes, I read your post. There is also some speculation about whether this signals the demise of Ubercart. IIRC, at least one consultant said he will no longer be using Ubercart.

I told my client our options may be to 1) help Ubercart get certified, 2) use an external payment gateway like paypal or Google, 3) drop credit card processing from our plans, 4) drop Ubercart.

I should have anticipated this kind of move when Visa bought Cybersource and am trying to get a definitive idea of what is going on.

independent developer

Can you clarify your post a

halhx's picture

Can you clarify your post a bit further.

One option you told your client is:

2) use an external payment gateway like paypal or Google.

Isn't it true that with Ubercart, we always use an external payment gateway. Paypal, Google checkout, authorize.net comes to my mind.

Thanks a lot in advanced.
--halhx

Maybe I used the wrong terminology

dkeays's picture

With paypal or Google checkout, the customer is taken to another web-site and they enter their credit card information there.

With authorize.net you connect to them with information about the transaction that your site has gathered.

Maybe I used the wrong terminology here but by "external" I meant someplace outside of the store's domain. Those kinds of redirects can make the customer uncomfortable (it can be leveraged for malicious purposes) and it breaks whatever branding our theme has established.

independent developer

payment gateway v shopping cart

Sid_M's picture

My understanding is that a key factor is whether credit cards ever touch your server. If they do, your server is part of the payment gateway, and has to meet visa's requirements. If your server never gets credit card information, then it is just a shopping cart, and visa doesn't care what you do there. Obviously, if you send people somewhere else for them to pay, then that site needs to meet visa's requirements.

credit cards

dkeays's picture

Which is why I told my client that we could just plain drop taking credit cards if the new standards can't be complied with. This is not a retail store. Processing credit cards is a convenience for our dealers, but not taking them will not result in a loss of business.

Ubercart doesn't store the credit card number anyplace, but it does ask for the credit card number to pass along.

independent developer

This is also being discussed

christefano's picture

This is also being discussed at http://groups.drupal.org/node/22671

Thanks Chris. That is a year

dkeays's picture

Thanks Chris. That is a year old post but it seems to summarize the old rules well. Now Visa is changing the rules and it isn't clear just how far their reach will be. Will shopping carts, even with a gateway like Authorize.net, be affected by the changes?

independent developer

PCI compliance quick info video

Chris Charlton's picture

Authorize.net has a video that helps explain the basics. http://www.authorize.net/videos/?id=22

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

PCI

rjbrown99's picture

If you have specific questions, please feel free to post them. In my non-Drupal-during-real-work-hours I head up the security team at a financial institution that is also a member of VISA. I'm not a QSA but I have access to one if something specific comes up.

In a nutshell and greatly generalizing here, anything that stores or processes the 16 digit PAN number (which is the number printed on the front of a card) needs to comply with the standard. The departure points as to what type of audits you are dealing with generally splits at how many cards you are handling and whether you are a VISA Member, service provider, etc.

The standards, including FAQs, are all publicly available here:
https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/index.shtml

One to particularly pay attention to is the Payment Application Data Security Standard which gets into payment applications.

The easiest thing to do is to not get into the PCI business in the first place and use a third-party payment gateway that IS PCI certified. Redirect your users there, allow that organization to accept the card info, and then obtain some type of proof-of-purchase. Stay away from the card numbers if you can.

A specific question, about

dkeays's picture

A specific question, about true end-to-end encryption which I think is a component of the new PCI rules.

From what I can tell, the work is at the PCI end (extending the SSL tunnel to the app server?) and the SSL certificate I already have would be adequate.

independent developer

@rjbrown99 "The easiest thing

dkeays's picture

@rjbrown99

"The easiest thing to do is to not get into the PCI business in the first place"

That is what we are doing- we will be using authorize.net. However rules are changing, VISA is being vague about the changes, and other Ubercart users are panicking as if this rule will no longer be valid. I'm trying to find-out if it is really time to start panicking? If the new rules only affect those in the PCI business, then it wouldn't affect me. But if it affects the shopping-carts themselves then we need to have a plan-of-action.

I assume these changes are an attempt to hold gateways like Heartland to a more rigorous standard, but the timing with VISA buying Cybersource/Authorize.net raises questions about killing competition.

independent developer

Numbers

rjbrown99's picture

@dkeays: Do you ever come into contact with the actual 16 digit card number, even just to pass it on to authorize.net? Or do you have something that works sort of like PayPal where you redirect people to the other site and they enter the card on that site?

If you'd like to chat about this on the phone, drop me a message. I'd be happy to talk through it with you. There's a lot to cover, but just start with how you interact with the PAN number.

Thank you. If I understand

dkeays's picture

Thank you.

If I understand Ubercart I have it taken care of, but it never hurts to learn more so I'll take you up on the offer.

Will you be at the LADrupal camp?

When would be a good time for you (I'm busy All Tuesday and Friday evening)?

independent developer

Thanks for the overview

dkeays's picture

Thanks for the overview Chris.

The sentence from www.pcicomplianceguide.org that worried me is:

"ALL PCI Level 4 merchants (new and existing) using third-party software must use validated applications. July 1, 2010".

Sounds to me like they are saying that business can no longer use ubercart without getting fined $5k to $10k per month. Nobody in ubercart could say what ubercart was going to do about this death sentence.

independent developer

ALL PCI Level 4

end user's picture

"ALL PCI Level 4 merchants (new and existing) using third-party software must use validated applications. July 1, 2010".

Sounds to me like they are saying that business can no longer use ubercart without getting fined $5k to $10k per month. Nobody in ubercart could say what ubercart was going to do about this death sentence.

With out having read much about PCI if Ubercart itself doesn't do any credit card processing/storage and just acts like a catalog/cart and then with the with the help of a pay pal module (not part of UC) the end user is sent to pay pal to enter the cc info wouldn't that be fine since no CC information was transmitted from the UC server to pay pal and vice versa?

Hosting is key

ahimsauzi's picture

As far as I went into this, it is not Ubercart but the type of hosting security, software version and SSL ciphers used that is the issue.

Having compliant hosting service simply cost more but it is still possible to be compliant with Ubercart.

I got this from Pay Pal

end user's picture

Couple more things I've rad about

As long as your site doesn't send "any" cc info to the processing server like a hosted payment form (Auth.net SIM, PayPal WPS and etc...) you don't need PCI compliance on the site/server.

You will still need PCI compliance for you business if you handle CC info or process is through a computer at your location.

ahimsauzi is right. The

christefano's picture

ahimsauzi is right. The hosting environment (SSL certificate, server versions, open ports, etc.) matters the most. My company, Exaltation of Larks, does PCI compliance consulting and implementation, so contact us any time if you'd like us to help.

PayFlow Link (**not** PayFlow Pro)

Aveu's picture

I have a brick & mortar retailer client who is joining the online sales fray for the first time. After a lot of discussion the decision was made to go with PayPal's "PayFlow Link" service (not "PayFlow Pro") which is a payment gateway that uses a client customizable webpage hosted on PayPal's servers. This means the 16 digit PAN number never touches the client's servers which is the single biggest factor towards minimizing your PCI-DSS issues.

Many first time online merchants use PayPal's "Website Payments Standard" or "Website Payments Pro" packages because they are easy to setup but there are a lot of differences. I want to point out just one though...

The big difference is that the Website Payments (WP) options use PayPal as the merchant processing "bank" and so it is PayPal who sets the per transaction % fees, but the PayFlow (PF) options use a gateway to the merchant processor of your choice which means if you already take CC's in your store, you can very likely use the same merchant service arrangement as you do with your swiping machine. This greatly simplifies billing management and if you are already a preferred customer then the per transaction fees may be very nice.

The one strong suggestion I will offer if you go this way is to have your merchant servicer set up a separate (sub)account number for online sales versus swipe sales.

If a credit card number is

charlie-s's picture

If a credit card number is entered at https://www.your-site.com then YES, you must be PCI compliant, which after July 1, 2010 means using PCI certified checkout software in addition to all of the standard PCI compliance requirements (SSL, Encryption, Firewalled server, Anti-virus on server, etc). NO, Ubercart is unfortunately not on the list of certified software (https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org/approved_companies_providers/valida...).

Honestly, I'm wondering why we don't just use hosted payment methods and save ourselves the headaches. For example, I'm going to be using Authorize.net's SIM (server integration method) for a few upcoming projects. Authnet is a great provider with outstanding support and a very easy to integrate PHP SDK. Try the demo on this page: https://developer.authorize.net/integration/fifteenminutes/#hosted and I think you'll be highly impressed.

While I'm speaking my mind, I'd like to just throw something out there -- how the hell does Visa or anyone within the PCI compliance auditing world know that I haven't hacked the code of a certified piece of software to alter how it works?

PCI Compliance

realEuph's picture

I would like to clarify a few statements above.

1) If your organization accepts credit cards, then you must be PCI compliant. Even if you use PayPal (or equivalent) for payments. PCI has a lot to do with business practices, so it applies to any organization that accepts credit cards.

2) The relevant section of the PCI DSS V2.0 document is Requirement 6 (Develop and maintain secure systems and applications) that mandates commercial credit card applications (shopping carts). OTOH, it is virtually impossible for a individual developer working on a shopping cart/payment application to meet all of the sub-requirements.

3) The disadvantage of a hosted payment solution (e.g., Authorize.net Simple Integration Method) is that the customer is taken off-site. You are unable to have a completely integrated solution that keeps the user on your domain.

4) Visa doesn't know or even care if you have hacked the code. PCI DSS is enforced by the merchant bank. If you don't comply with the bank's requirements, you can't take credit cards (at least through that bank). If you have a release of information, and it is found that you lied on the form; then you will not be able to accept credit cards. Of course, if you are TJ Max or Sony, then this doesn't apply because the credit card companies need you. For the rest of use - well SOL.

Leonard Daly