Seeing the size of the BoF group that was interested in discussing the pros and cons of agencies vs individuals, and how to evaluate potential vendors, at tonight's meetup made me wonder...how many people in this group are either not developers, or are developers with a strong interest in exploring the business side of Drupal?
The size of the group interested in the topic made me wonder if we should consider some kind of a split format in the meetups, whereby there might be walkthroughs of more purely technical topics in the conference room and open discussion on business-y topics in the lobby, and then a swap midway through if someone wants to present on a business-side topic.
I can think of a number of areas that could be applicable...marketing Drupal, managing Drupal teams and projects, evaluating project needs, semi-technical Drupal topics for non-developers (eg, learning the gist of the platform to be able to understand things and talk with devs, but not necessarily build), leveraging Drupal features for SEO, Drupal's innate social features, an overview of feature-adding modules...etc.
How many people are interested in these kinds of topics? Is there enough interest that it's worthwhile to think about how to accommodate the two perspectives?
Comments
Business
I would be very interested and I have two more thoughts:
1. We have many freelancers at meetups. Why not bringing problems (logistics problem, efficiency problem, management problem, etc) to the business meeting and with budget in mind. Then we can talk how to solve it in a Drupal way.
2. I am wondering how many PR in this group. As far as I know, developers are not pure technical guys, sometimes they can foresee niche markets, and would love to work with PR or marketing people to make something.
Hello all, I am not a
Hello all,
I am not a developer but I have managed a group of creatives including front-end web developers
when was VP Creative Strategy + Development at BMG Direct | Bertelsmann. I managed the creative on yourmusic.com, bmgmusic.com and a varitey of partner websites.
I am still a hand-on designer and part-time I do creative recruiting for Creative Network Systems.
Although I have directed flash pages, banners, etc. I have not designed with it. Something I am now considering as well.
I am VERY interested in learning more about Drupal since I am seeing more & more business utilizing this technology. Currently if you have not checked the boards, I have a client looking for two developers in NYC.
I also have a few friends learning Drupal and would love to buy anyone in the group a cup coffee just to chat about it!
I am not sure where my next position will lead me so I am looking to be deeply educated about Drupal.
I look forward to more meetings with a variety of topics in marketing, managing, etc.
Thanks!
Tina
:: cernero productions | center of one music
:: 917 670 2118 cell | http://www.cernero.com
You are most welcome
Hey Tina,
I am Drupal developer and working on Drupal theme and module development from the very beginning of 5.x. So how may I help you? Feel free to ask me for any kind of help :). I can provide you tutorial links and can share my practical knowledge. Looking forward for receiving your reply.
Regards
//Rony
mailto: deawn<..dot..>bu<..at..>gmail<..dot..>com
Me, too
I am another non-developer interested in business-side topics as well as how Drupal works and how to do things. My background is in marketing and writing and I'm interested in partnering with developers as a content specialist.
I was very bummed to miss last night's topics. (My babysitting fell through at the last minute.)
As a working-from-home freelance, I'd be glad to meet other Drupallers (Drupalistas?) one on one or in small groups for coffee or lunch on weekdays, especially here in Brooklyn.
Jean Gazis
www.jeangazis.com
www.webhostny.com
Jean Gazis
www.jeangazis.com
www.webhostny.com
No trouble
No trouble, all you are most welcome.I will try my best to help you technically. Ping me or mail me anytime you want asking your queries.
Good Direction
This is a great idea...I am a creative/semi dev but more on the front end who is also interested in the business side of things. I have been to some meetups but never heard anyone talk on this. I also missed last nights meetup and don't know if anything was covered on this, most of the meetups that I attended were geared more to dev and programming.
I own and run a small multimedia company so I wear many different hats in the business...from creative to dev, owner to AE and marketing.
I am very interested in talking with anyone that wants to collaborate on any interesting trends and possible projects. I am very open to any discussions. I alos on a constant basis look for freelanncers and contractors to bring on other projects, so if anyone is looking or knows anyone that is looking for work please let me know and I would love to talk.
Drupal Freelancer
Hi
Would you like to talk with me? I have been working on Drupal theme and module development. Looking forward for receiving your reply.
//Rony
Quality assurance
You do not show any references in your groups.drupal.org nor in your drupal.org profiles.
Please provide track record in your profile.
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What kinds of topics/questions?
Neat...so it looks like I am not the only one. :-) (For context, I was in front-end development and have dabbled in Drupal, but am on the marketing/PM/client side of things now.)
What kinds of questions or topics are people grappling with or looking for conversation on?
Thanks for making some noise
Yes, we've been thinking about doing this for a while, but there was not enough noise from the non-developer/business side of the fence to make it happen. Thanks for making some noise. I will definitely help organize this section of the meetups.
While working with the group over the past year and a half, I realized that many people, just need to do a few simple things with Drupal. They come to the meetups looking for a solution that they can implement themselves or someone they can hire to get it done for them. This group of non-developer/business types often walk away from the meetups a little frustrated, because the meetups are so technical, and they don't get their simple questions answered.
It's definitely time to more formally establish the non-developer/business/marketing section of the group that has been developing over the past few meetups.
Looking forward to working with you guys on this!
I'm seeing a spectrum of
I'm seeing a spectrum of topics...along with less-technical implementations, there are a variety of issues that could be addressed---finding and working with developers, marketing of Drupal, scoping projects, managing projects, understanding things like Views without intending to actually implement them but to have a better understanding of the things the team is doing, understanding out-of-the-box capabilities and how to use key contributed modules (and what those mean to projects)...a lot of directions to go in.
I agree with your assessment, that many people (myself among them) are working in the Drupal space but don't do full-on Drupal development, or even necessarily any development. This has been apparent in many conversations I've had with others at the meetups, and reflects on the messageboards, too, as many of us lurk but don't talk because we aren't heavy into developing and aren't sure where we fit.
Would be great to start something that could better engage and speak to those on the business side of Drupal (or the devs with interest in Drupal-related non-dev topics) and get them/us more active in the overall NYC Drupal group and meetups.
Hy all, Nice to see that
Hy all,
Nice to see that there is some follow up on the meeting. There were indeed a lot interesting discussions during the BoF session.
For non-drupal developer, it is still difficult to see the scope of Drupal... What are it use cases? Or does it everything... We often seem to say the last thing, but I notice that this is everything but a satisfactory answer to people searching for a good technology. So what is the limit of Drupal (performance, etc ...), what kinds of use cases are overkill if you do it with Drupal (e.g. simple blogs). Admitting the borders would be a very interesting topic :)
Actually the same goes for freelance Drupal developers. What are limits of these people (myself included ;))? What kind of projects have been succefully implemented by freelance developers, which ones not (and why not?). This can help 'decision makers' to better evaluate who they need for the job. I have recently seen a failed Drupal project (by a startingagency, and these developers where smart people ... what can go wrong?)
Secondly there are a lot of software practises like RUP and it's variants, or Agile development .... They are often applied to "classical" software projects, and are great tools to succefully define and implement software projects. How do these practises relate to web development and more general to Drupal development. Is there anyone using these kinds of approaches, and is able to share experiences? This should also help business people in getting trust in Drupal development. Drupal theme and module development is just not enough. Managing a software project is even more important, and Drupal developers and managers would learn a lot of hearing these project management and create more trust in succesfull implementations.
Anyone an idea of these topics could help managers in evaluating Drupal and its developers for their projects?
I think those are great
I think those are great topics with broad appeal...valuable to freelancers to understand how to position themselves, target projects, and possibly look for team environments when appropriate; valuable to clients to understand what they are looking for; valuable to agencies and internal teams to better understand their strengths, when to pull together teams with outside vendors/freelancers, and their ideal projects; and the project management topic helps everyone understand their roles, solid processes, and potential pitfalls.
I agree with you, that talking about these things within the community (and leaving the evidence around in places like public forums and blogs) should do a lot to help build business-side confidence in Drupal.
Nice suggestions!
Independence + Trust
I think we're in a unique position because a lot of us are powerful as individuals. I am interested more in people who are looking to start businesses/cooperatives together than being hired by another firm, though the goals are the same in the sense that I want to focus on my specialties as well. Being the only person in my organization that interfaces with clients (at least before the project starts) probably doesn't look good (and takes time away from me doing more productive things)
In terms of trust, I think the last few years have changed from us as developers suggesting drupal as a solution to clients actually asking for it. It's been an amazing transition.
Definitely a way to bring more people to group -- and to Drupal
This sounds great to me, and I'd love to hear more about a lot of the topics mentioned -- managing Drupal teams, evaluating Drupal expertise, and (in particular) useful Drupal terminology/know-how that can be useful in hiring and/or working with Drupal pros.
Another one to add to the mix: Drupal for media professionals. I'd love to have someone from Fast Company, The New York Observer, or any other major media website come to talk about Drupal -- that is, someone who is a content editor or who works closely with Drupal developers. What role to editors/producers play in deciding on new functionality/features? How do you add those once a site is up? What are the pros/cons of using Drupal for a media website?
One thing to consider: I think topics like these could really draw more people to the group, and to Drupal. If we posted something at mediabistro.com, for instance, about Drupal for Media Professionals, and noted the amazing sites using it, I would think we'd get a lot of responses -- potentially a way to grow the group, but also increase Drupal's profile as a tool for media pros.
Allan
Drupal as a Media Platform
I have been a member of the NY user group since March of 2007, when I sat in with a small group of Drupal developers. Their discussions were technical and dealt with site building, configuration and module development. This was understandable for people whose jobs it was to make sense of a complex codebase that interacted with a long list of open-source programming.
Throughout my career, my job has been to transition editorial systems from phototypesetting and paste-up to a streamlined digital workflow that incorporated the editorial, graphic design, prepress and print production processes. Most recently, this meant utilizing Postscript and PDF.
I discovered that Drupal addresses the issues of content aggregation, editorial management, graphic design, distribution, and subscriber management in ways that puts conventional media to shame. Unleashing that power for editors and producers is not a simple task. It is complicated by the fact that Drupalists use terminology that suits the development process but is foreign to media professionals.
My goal with Drupal has been to develop Wildfeed.com and thus expose the power of online media. The site utilizes crowdsourcing - content aggregation by an editorial community - to discover and expose breakthrough content and new talent working digitally.
Those of you who would like to learn more about my experiences with Drupal I will discuss it at the next meetup if there are enough people interested. Also, I invite you to be part of my community, the content sharing community at http://www.wildfeed.com.
Meetup Suggestions
Can we get a couple of additional group posting categories for Business or Networking? Or would networking go under social?
It seems clear there is a desire for both more intensive developer stuff and more non-developer business stuff. I don't know how many free evenings people have, but a way to open the group to more people would be to add a second monthly meeting, but have it be more focused, as a networking type event or a hack-a-thon type event.
I'm thinking that way people could do something very other week - their special interest plus the general group, or just go to one or the other. Or the second meeting could alternate both groups every other month or something like that.
Are a lot of people interested in smaller get-togethers, like lunch or coffee, for networking?
Jean Gazis
www.jeangazis.com
www.webhostny.com
Jean Gazis
www.jeangazis.com
www.webhostny.com
I am open
This sounds like a good idea. I am open to doing this even if it doesn't get an official stamp I think those off us who have the same ideas on this thread should get together and get something started. I would be great if we could have more meetings a month split into specific categories that way members have options on what to attend and can get relevant info to what their needs are.
This idea will create better communication of greater networking possibilities...even if it's 5 people to start, I think it will work.
agreed
I like the sounds of this sub group meeting, even if there isn't an official stamp on it. It would be most beneficial in cases such as mine where I am heavily interested in development work but as a freelancer I recognize the necessity of discussing common client concerns and general business and project management topics.
As such, at the last meetup I was forced into making the hard decision of choosing between the developer discussion on using SVN and the topics raised about managing Drupal teams. Since I at least have a basic working knowledge of using SVN, I chose to join in the non-dev discussion group. In fact I blogged about the whole experience here.
My point just being that. If we were to branch off into some side discussions on business and project management, this might leave more room in official meetups for development work. I for one would have an easier time choosing the developers corner if my business and networking concerns were already taken care of.
this is great, do it!
Just to chime in to head off the hesitation I see in some of the comments.
From the discussions here it is clear that there is a solid interest and desire in a section of the community to see events like this happen.
Keep the general discussion and planning within this group (as you are doing now), and make it happen.
There is nothing 'official' about the current monthly meetups, nothing official about Drupal Camps -- subsets of the community discuss those things here and then make them happen. Events with a certain focus of interest to a subset of the group don't need a stamp of approval, just plan them publicly and give a chance for input before moving forward (as has been done via this thread)
Setting up some categories for these discussions would be great, maybe start another thread and come to some decision about what they should be and then I'm sure one of the group maintainers will be happy to add them.
Just don't setup your own website or empower any one person to make unilateral decisions and you should get nothing but help from everyone else here.
While I am a techie, these days I tend to do more client relations and project management and I love the idea of having meetups that are not highly technical in nature.
If the group is small, I might be able to find a space for you to use.
I think it's a great idea to
I think it's a great idea to organize smaller groups outside of meetups. Coffees, etc, give better opportunity to get to know people.
I would be wary, though, of splitting off the topical groups into actually separate meetups or out of meetups entirely. I think there's a lot of value in having the devs and non-devs attending and connecting at the same events. My concern is that by splitting them entirely, the opportunity to connect devs and non-devs would be lost. Also, I suspect that many of us could not make it to two monthly events, but do not want to be totally shut out of either area. Keeping both tracks together allows people to go to one event while touching on both the technical and non-technical sides of their work/business and connecting with people across the functional areas of professional Drupal.
A lot of meetup groups DO, however, alternate knowledge-focused events with social/networking events, which could be a good bi-monthly option if enough people were interested.
Those are my thoughts...
Amy
Amy C. Cham
Tech/Marketing Convergence Manager
Tree House Agency
Twitter: amycham
we are already leading an
we are already leading an n-track meetup so there is no need to fear branching off. The only thing that is required to make this happen is propose this during meetup planning and then mention it again at the meetup as a reminder. you'll get as many tables as you need to accommodate the demand.
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Hey guys, head over to
Hey guys, head over to http://groups.drupal.org/node/16836 to sign up for the december event and very importantly propose non-dev topics for discussions.
I am very eager to participate in those but considering my background i find it difficult to come up with such topics on my own :). hope to see you all there.
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