SoCal under attack

Events happening in the community are now at Drupal community events on www.drupal.org.
mike stewart's picture

by me. I was looking at activity in the Southern California group, with the exception of a couple job posts there has been NO topical posts exclusive to the group since march of 2007. That's over a year of stagnation in a community that is far from stagnant.

I feel this leads to noise & confusion. Anyone object to killing the group? it was seems to have been created at a time before a dominant regional group took off.

Comments

SoCal <> LA

apperceptions's picture

I don't feel any confusion. Noise? That's more of an LA phenom ;)

I'd like to see the SoCal group stay. LA sprang from it, perhaps others will. Can anyone say "Inland Empire" or "Ventura"?

--

Markus Sandy
http://apperceive.com
http://ourmedia.org

I agree - so what about Temecula/Murrieta?

mattman-gdo's picture

Ok, so I'm not really asking a serious question about Temecula or Murrieta, I'm actually just posting here (instead of being ambitious and starting a new group with a super low member count [maybe just me :(]) to see if anyone searching for the keywords of "murrieta" or "temecula" find this post and decide to contact me.

Yeah, I'm stranded in between San Diego and LA so if you're in the area and you're looking for drupal people then contact me.

P.S. Yes, I did a google search for for "temecula site:drupal.org" and low and behold, nothing (not a big surprise) - I must be the only one out of close to 250,000 people who's in the area doing drupal. If I'm not alone then message me!

GotDrupal.com

Sharing what I know via Drupal Videos

Well, I know of two

brenda003's picture

Well, I know of two companies in Temecula who do some Drupal work. :) I used to live there (and probably moving back), does that count?

the fact remains this group

mike stewart's picture

the fact remains this group is not active and all its members belong to another regional group. (or they're simply not active)

I suggest starting a group close to you and adding an event for a meetup. the first time or two might only be a couple people in a coffee shop. I plan to have LA streaming our meetings hopefully as soon as this month. questions via IRC. but for a group to be relevant it needs to have a purpose and community. until today socal has had zero participation since march 2007.

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

SoCal group makes sense to me

apperceptions's picture

Several points:

  1. I recently met a person in the area who wanted Drupal help. Post was ignored in LA group; no one bothered to respond. So they posted to SFBay only because that was where original dev team was. Seems like SoCal would have been best.

  2. This group is often a first stop for peeps before they decide which regional groups fit best for them. If you are already sub'd to a smaller regional group, then you may not need this one. Anyone can unsubscribe if the noise is too great.

  3. Activity is time relative. I remember when there was debate over the need of an LA group. Funny how things change. When LA is nuked just before the big election, other areas of SoCal will probably become more active. Might be good to have the larger group at that time.

--

Markus Sandy
http://apperceive.com
http://ourmedia.org

Can anyone say "Inland Empire"

christefano's picture

Can anyone say "Inland Empire" or "Ventura"?

In the past week, we've seen activity in both Ventura County and in the Inland Empire. I like what I'm seeing!

Umbrella-ela-ela...

Chris Charlton's picture

I agree with Markus on this. It may help another region spring up and I see it as an umbrella outlet for when we need to talk to LA, Santa Barbara, O.C., and San Diego crowds. People might relate to "Southern California" more than "LA" itself.

And L.A. isn't noisy, it's just the sounds waves bounce back down off the bottom side of our smog. :P

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

If you need to talk to

brenda003's picture

If you need to talk to everyone, you can post in multiple groups, though.

I forgot this group even existed (and I'm subscribed to it!).

True, but...

Chris Charlton's picture

True, but I think groups on gdo aren't exactly categorized regional vs. online, making "Southern California" best for searching folks. Plus, it doesn't mess with anyone to leave it up.

I almost think the SoCal groups should use this group to organize stuff together.

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

Yeah, that's a good point.

brenda003's picture

Yeah, that's a good point. It probably doesn't hurt to keep it. Maybe there should be a sticky at the top about the other more specific groups (if there isn't already).

Do the LA/SD/SB ever need to organize together? You darn LA Drupallers, having all the fun...!!

Yes and yes.

Chris Charlton's picture

Yes and yes. SoCal Drupal User Groups are like a biker gang with chapters. We're tough, mean, and bust all the doors down.

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

So maybe a good PR gimick for

dkeays's picture

So maybe a good PR gimick for the Inland group is to try and blow-up a police building. It got the Vagos a bit of press.

independent developer

yes, groups are classified

mike stewart's picture

groups are in fact classified.

they are
* regional
* working (aka online)
* distribution
* event
* archive

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

Saw that today

Chris Charlton's picture

Just saw that today. I haven't searched for a new group in a while and am happy to see it.

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

re:sticky

Chris Charlton's picture

Markus Sandy just posted a good node that should probably be the sticky or used in the SoCal group intro text at the top.

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

I'm not sure I understand.

mike stewart's picture

I'm not sure I understand. Chris/Markus, are you guys are suggesting everyone should subscribe to this group in addition to the OTHER regional group they belong? to what end? this group hasn't had an original thought since march of '07. I'm not bagging. its just a fact. the only reason I belong to it (and probably the other 106 members) is so that we know whats happening in southern california. turns out a lot, but not in this group.

Also, Markus you just added a wonderful post about local events & groups. But you did it ONLY in this group. This really underscores my point about noise: if you're NOT subscribed to SoCal group, you simply didn't see this post.

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

Good point...

Chris Charlton's picture

I was told (@ DrupalCon Boston) that there can sometimes be scenarios where someone registers for a new group they didn't know was there before and when that new group gets accepted it can cause confusion and fragment local community attendance. Having heard that myself I saw the general need for some SoCal/CA group.

GDO is getting updates so I think having a SoCal, while possibly redundant, helps all surrounding community efforts catch fish and bring them (or keep them) aboard the Drupal ship we're all invested/interested in.

Code idea: when the system (gdo or site) is emailing new group posts, it stores a temporary database table to log the uid and nid/vid sent, and if it sees I've already been sent the post (from being in a different group), then it skips sending me the subsequent emails. But, of course, this would be an option to my user account ("Noise filter: send me only one email for group posts that appear in the multiple groups I belong to."). It'd even lower the emails sent by groups, resulting in lowering overhead on the e-mail system and offer users less noise.

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

Again, SoCal makes sense to me.

apperceptions's picture

"Also, Markus you just added a wonderful post about local events & groups. But you did it ONLY in this group. This really underscores my point about noise: if you're NOT subscribed to SoCal group, you simply didn't see this post."

It was my intention not to bother everyone with commonly known (but useful) info. It seems to me that this works great. I left that post for future newbies (would be nice if it was sticky, where's the admin?) or new to the area.

I plan future posts about Drupal projects in SoCal, but not LA or SD. There's lots brewing out in the boonies that should be ready to serve soon.

By your own logic: if there is no activity then how is there noise?

--

Markus Sandy
http://apperceive.com
http://ourmedia.org

noise due to mixed up cross posts

mike stewart's picture

You ask -

By your own logic: if there is no activity then how is there noise?

well to be fair, there is activity. but the activity is purely the result of cross postings from other groups, such as LA, OC, SD, SB.

arguably, there has not been a unique post in this group for more than a year. this group is ONLY noise as a result, with the real information found in the other groups

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

kidnap it

chadcross's picture

Mike, lets take the Socal group over and rename it "Long Beach". I mean, lets face it, Long Beach is really the only place worth being in Southern California anyway right?

LBC

Chris Charlton's picture

Ha! LBC is known for two things: the Queen Mary and Snoop Dogg... well, most schools know Long Beach for the bars along Pine/Ocean.

Chris Charlton, Author & Drupal Community Leader, Enterprise Level Consultant

I teach you how to build Drupal Themes http://tinyurl.com/theme-drupal and provide add-on software at http://xtnd.us

loi. think they're gaurding the baby now

mike stewart's picture

but your idea is great. loi. :-P

kidnapping would at least give the group a purpose. I was just trying to clean up my subscription mess last night. went through all the posts in the SoCal group and realized NOONE has posted to it nor is using it - except for cross posts.

so regardless of my said attack on SoCal, or an emotional attachment to the group by anyone else to the group, for all intent and purpose it is dead. All I did was point it out. It serves no function except to occasionally send me (and the other 106 members) duplicate email (or dual rss feeds) of the same post.

oh well. long live the king.

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

I don't receive any dup emails

apperceptions's picture

Perhaps consider using better aggregator and email tools :)

The report of my death was an exaggeration." - Mark Twain

--

Markus Sandy
http://apperceive.com
http://ourmedia.org

yes, you're right about the

mike stewart's picture

yes, you're right about the duplicate emails - i misspoke/misspelled ;-)

I'm also afraid I'm coming across as harsh, or that I have a lot invested in trying to kill the group - neither of which is my intention. i am mostly just confused about the use of a SoCal group.

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

OpenChimp's picture

I agree that the SoCal group should stay. We can avoid some of the potential confusion (for users who aren't familiar with the local groups and may think the socal group contains all the drupal activity in southern california) by updating the socal group homepage with links to each of the more active regional groups. That way people who find the socal group can be directed to group that is right for them. I noticed Marcus made a post listing some of the local groups http://groups.drupal.org/node/13045, but the regional group list should really be a part of the socal group description instead so that it is permanently accessible when users come to the socal group. Here's the one's I know about:

Los Angeles
San Diego
Orange County
Santa Barbara - seems to be broken/deleted???
are there more??? - this is one of the reasons it's good to have a socal group - so that when we want to cross post we can hit socal without having to know each and every group in socal.

Members of each of the local regional groups can continue to use the socal group to make announcements that apply to all of socal. I see no harm in having a nice mechanism to crosspost to neighboring regions.

extra note to local regional group admins ... your group description should contain the word(s) "[Southern ]California" in it somewhere for better search results. http://groups.drupal.org/og/all?filter0=california

SB Group Link Fixed

apperceptions's picture

Thanks for pointing out link. They are at /santa-barbara-ca. Also, I added OC.

--

Markus Sandy
http://apperceive.com
http://ourmedia.org

One more thing

apperceptions's picture

I had no idea there was an OC group. So happy to hear that (I used to live there and love to visit).

I would not have known that if it were not for the (recently active) SoCal group :o

--

Markus Sandy
http://apperceive.com
http://ourmedia.org

adding OC

paris's picture

Thanks Marcus :)

Peter-gdo's picture

A good example of an aggregating web site for user groups is

http://lalugs.org

It has been highly successful. When at the beginning of a
meeting the MC asks for new attendees to raise their hands,
and ask how did you hear about our LUG, at least one person
always states LALugs.org

It's also got high PageRank, so anyone searching on

los angeles lug

often find this site, and thus find the local site in their
area, along with other Open Source User Groups.

I think it's a terrific growth direction for Drupal.

And I would extend the concept to allow members of any
Drupal group to request links to their favorite Drupal site,
fav PHP sites, their own web site, etc. We do that on
LAMPSig.org and it's a terrific member benefit. Mostly
senior members take advantage of it as they know the
need for networking.

Keep the Southern California group.

tom friedhof's picture

I think we should keep the Southern California group for all the same reasons mentioned above. It doesn't hurt to keep it, and if it's too noisy there is always the option to unsubscribe to the group.

As a few people have already mentioned, the post Markus created earlier today should be sticky, so people can easily find the other regional groups.

I appreciate all the open discussion

mike stewart's picture

maybe Markus is right... maybe I just need a better rss agregator. what are you guys using?

because as I see it, the problem with the "unsubscribe if things get too noisy" is that you may miss any posts exclusive to this group.

the power of RSS & gdo is that I can subscribe to multiple groups and create my own "regional aggregate." this works well except SoCal has been pure duplication of posts for more than a year. So how do you guys solve this problem? can someone point me to things that solve this?

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

highermath's picture

This would let users get a consolidated feed for the entire region, a la the Drupal.org feed aggregator

The only potential hiccup would be if we added another group, as (I think) there is a four group posting limit.

yes

mike stewart's picture

i like this idea. it seems to me it solves all the issues, including making the group purposeful.

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

Newb's perspective...

Starbuck's picture

Mission Viejo calling here... Is this the party to whom I am speaking? :)

I didn't even know there was a difference between SoCal and LA groups. I registered and started a new blog at LaDrupal.org mid-last month. I didn't get any feedback, didn't expect much because that site hardly gets any activity. But I knew there was a meeting and some action over here. So point 1, even when someone finds a group we're not quite sure whether we've found "a" group or "the" group. Maybe someone should monitor groups for new registration and send out a welcoming committee - or at least a shout that newbs'll catch somewhere.

Point ii (aren't all numbers boring?) - now I'm finding there is that site, there's this LA Group and a SoCal group. News ta me. I was very confused about the relationships when I'd click the news block on the LADrupa.org site and it kept bringing me here. Then I figured out that this is groups.drupal.org where there are a ton of groups - but it really just made me wonder if LADrupal was deprecated/dead. So to sum this one up - as long as there is some debate as to "which one(s)" to keep, for now, how about ensuring that whichever one(s) someone may find, that there is some cohesion/collaboration to funnel people to wherever the action really is. From there people can branch out as possible. I'm going to adopt the solution just discussed here, which is to RSS any place I can find - it's not like anyone is going to get overwhelmed with postings.

Point C (I love when people do that) (uh.. 3, and don't worry, I can't count too high) If there is a question as to where people are, how bout setting up a Google map and letting people register themselves so that everyone can get a visual idea of where the activity is. Unless someone has a better idea, I can setup something here where people can have a few non-personal / non-invasive ways of providing their zip code so that we can plot dots. It's not a perfect mechanism but it might help with this problem of "we don't know where people are, so let's kill the SoCal group".

Ummm, 1, ii, C, oh yeah, point 100 - Another minor issue with understanding which group is which, and then associating with the right group, is that every site has a different login. I had no idea until now (lucky u) that groups.drupal.org had a different user database than drupal.org. Sure, I understand how it works but I was registered at Drupal.org, I then registered at LADrupal.org, then that kept bouncing me here where I wasn't logged in and couldn't post an inquiry. See the problem? For someone just getting started the fee for entry is a lot of keystrokes, and we're just not sure where we should be paying that fee, so personally for the last couple weeks I chose to ignore this group until I saw Mike's note. OK, call me slow.

Finally, V (when you thought it couldn't get worse) : nice to finally meet you peeps. Hope to see you at a meeting sometime soon. The real point I'd like to make is that the meetings are what are going to draw people out from under their rocks. The more activity people see in R.L. versus forums, the more I think they'll get hooked on the software and the community. When the meetings get boring and go south (like to TJ, although maybe that's not a bad idea either...) - then it's time to start wrapping up.

That's my five fingers' worth. I'll sit down now and y'all can go back to the shoot out. ;) Thanks 4 your time.

yay! we have a new volunteer to help!

mike stewart's picture

The problem with open source is whenever someone has a gripe, quite often they're elected to volunteer to to the work.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, and noticed your posts on the LADrupal site, but have been busy making it easier for people to find and join our lil group. (for instance http://drupal-la.blip.tv or my work organizing and volunteering to run a http://groups.drupal.org/node/12811.

Mostly though, I noticed your posts and haven't seen you at a meeting. They're A Lot of fun, and definitely worth the time. There's a lot to learn, new friends to meet, and jobs to be found... not to mention free give-away's... hope to see you July 29th at our next meeting.

--
mike stewart { twitter: @MediaDoneRight | IRC nick: mike stewart }

Many great points here

apperceptions's picture

And a perfect segue for a fork. A few of us have been talking about the need to revamp LADrupal.org and so I will initiate a new discussion on that topic over on the LA group momentarily.

Update: here's the discussion on revamping LADrupal.org

--

Markus Sandy
http://apperceive.com
http://ourmedia.org